http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063828/Muslims-patriotic-British-people.html

Even with the evidence of this poll (which I have no idea which is genuine or not) the DailyMailers are pissing and moaning abut Muslims. It makes you wonder what would satisfy them as to the genuineness of anyone who isn't white, christian and xenophobic. The answer is, of course, nothing.

Yes we all agreed about this after the London bombings...and still do given the reaction when you see full bearded and Arabic wearing folks on the London tube.

For sure most muslims and middle eastern people are absolutely good people but this is the group from which I feel individuals might choose to blow up my train.

Sorry for feeling this way but I can only speak from experience.

Yes we all agreed about this after the London bombings...and still do given the reaction when you see full bearded and Arabic wearing folks on the London tube.

For sure most muslims and middle eastern people are absolutely good people but this is the group from which I feel individuals might choose to blow up my train.

Sorry for feeling this way but I can only speak from experience.

Unquestionably most Muslims are thoroughly decent people, but there is a fanatic element among them which fosters terrorism. And the terrorists don't all wear beards.

A question one might ask is, patriotic in respect of which country?

A country's immigration policy can be seen as a success by the extent to which its immigrants become integrated. Britain does not seem to be a success in respect of non-white immigrants (though some are well-integrated).

The margin of error in this type of poll must be enormous.

That aside, just imagine going round asking resident farangs "do you love Thailand?"

Most are going to say yes, as they would be a mixture of; afraid of being chucked out and embarrassed to say no seeing as they lived there.

Yes we all agreed about this after the London bombings...and still do given the reaction when you see full bearded and Arabic wearing folks on the London tube.

For sure most muslims and middle eastern people are absolutely good people but this is the group from which I feel individuals might choose to blow up my train.

Sorry for feeling this way but I can only speak from experience.

Unquestionably most Muslims are thoroughly decent people, but there is a fanatic element among them which fosters terrorism. And the terrorists don't all wear beards.

A question one might ask is, patriotic in respect of which country?

A country's immigration policy can be seen as a success by the extent to which its immigrants become integrated. Britain does not seem to be a success in respect of non-white immigrants (though some are well-integrated).

I think you'll find that the non-white immigrants (ie those who originally left their countries a couple of generations ago to live in the UK) are as integrated as it's possible to be. It's their offspring that seem to be the problem.

The margin of error in this type of poll must be enormous.

That aside, just imagine going round asking resident farangs "do you love Thailand?"

Most are going to say yes, as they would be a mixture of; afraid of being chucked out and embarrassed to say no seeing as they lived there.

Most Muslims are British citizens so it's not possible to 'chuck them out'.

The article is based on this poll:

A Place for pride

This in itself (below) somewhat suggests they are turning upside down the term of patriotism, but still using the term in the newspapers is totally confusing and misleading.

"Drawing on qualitative research with over 2,000 British people from England, Wales and Scotland, this pamphlet argues that patriotism does not, and should not, come from either top-down narratives about Queen and country nor from so-called ‘progressive’ notions based on values. Instead, modern British patriotism is founded in a profound, emotional connection to the everyday acts, manners and kindnesses that British people see in themselves."

No details about their sample of 2,000 people (wow what percentage is that of the UK population). Calling it(in the pamphlet) a weighted sample, presumably they then did a bit of maths to make the answers of those 2,000 supposedly representative of the over 60 million population. Crikey not much error there then.

Honestly I don't know why they bother with this stuff, apart from to fill the politicians briefcases and mislead the average person.

Edited November 21, 201114 yr by cmsally

Yes we all agreed about this after the London bombings...and still do given the reaction when you see full bearded and Arabic wearing folks on the London tube.

For sure most muslims and middle eastern people are absolutely good people but this is the group from which I feel individuals might choose to blow up my train.

Sorry for feeling this way but I can only speak from experience.

Unquestionably most Muslims are thoroughly decent people, but there is a fanatic element among them which fosters terrorism. And the terrorists don't all wear beards.

A question one might ask is, patriotic in respect of which country?

A country's immigration policy can be seen as a success by the extent to which its immigrants become integrated. Britain does not seem to be a success in respect of non-white immigrants (though some are well-integrated).

I think you'll find that the non-white immigrants (ie those who originally left their countries a couple of generations ago to live in the UK) are as integrated as it's possible to be. It's their offspring that seem to be the problem.

I wonder why they are so disaffected. Surely its nothing to do with the welfare system or educational opportunities in the UK? Perhaps its due to unavailability of Mosques?

It couldn't be their unwillingness to integrate into a multicultural society at all.

what exactly are

Arabic wearing folks

what exactly are

Arabic wearing folks

oops slip of the keyboard...here's an example of what I mean...

I meant people wearing arabic clothing of course.

what exactly are

Arabic wearing folks

oops slip of the keyboard...here's an example of what I mean...

I meant people wearing arabic clothing of course.

Surely in UK more Muslims walk around with their shirts hanging out than in Arab traditional dress?

Surely in UK more Muslims walk around with their shirts hanging out than in Arab traditional dress?

Hmmm thinking about it....I only really see Heathrow's terminal and the Qatar lounge these days so my view may be skewed a little.

I think you'll find that the non-white immigrants (ie those who originally left their countries a couple of generations ago to live in the UK) are as integrated as it's possible to be. It's their offspring that seem to be the problem.

I wonder why they are so disaffected. Surely its nothing to do with the welfare system or educational opportunities in the UK? Perhaps its due to unavailability of Mosques?

It couldn't be their unwillingness to integrate into a multicultural society at all.

From a distance, I have the same impression as endure, that it's the next generation which is disaffected. Why? Poor parenting? Poor schooling? Or the feeling on their part that it's WASP-run and they're always going to be the underdogs? There's nothing to stop them building mosques if they want to, is there?

I think you'll find that the non-white immigrants (ie those who originally left their countries a couple of generations ago to live in the UK) are as integrated as it's possible to be. It's their offspring that seem to be the problem.

I wonder why they are so disaffected. Surely its nothing to do with the welfare system or educational opportunities in the UK? Perhaps its due to unavailability of Mosques?

It couldn't be their unwillingness to integrate into a multicultural society at all.

From a distance, I have the same impression as endure, that it's the next generation which is disaffected. Why? Poor parenting? Poor schooling? Or the feeling on their part that it's WASP-run and they're always going to be the underdogs? There's nothing to stop them building mosques if they want to, is there?

Precisely my point. There is free schooling for all and then further education at a price. But then the price also applies to everyone and its a fairer system than where their parents or grandparents originated from.

I don't understand how a British kid can be "radicalised" in such an environment.

The article is based on this poll:

A Place for pride

This in itself (below) somewhat suggests they are turning upside down the term of patriotism, but still using the term in the newspapers is totally confusing and misleading.

"Drawing on qualitative research with over 2,000 British people from England, Wales and Scotland, this pamphlet argues that patriotism does not, and should not, come from either top-down narratives about Queen and country nor from so-called ‘progressive’ notions based on values. Instead, modern British patriotism is founded in a profound, emotional connection to the everyday acts, manners and kindnesses that British people see in themselves."

No details about their sample of 2,000 people (wow what percentage is that of the UK population). Calling it(in the pamphlet) a weighted sample, presumably they then did a bit of maths to make the answers of those 2,000 supposedly representative of the over 60 million population. Crikey not much error there then.

Honestly I don't know why they bother with this stuff, apart from to fill the politicians briefcases and mislead the average person.

Don't get hung up on the number of people interviewed for the poll. 2000 is a good number. Polls are not done with tens/hundreds of thousands of people. It needs to be a representative sample of the demographic though. For example, you can't have 85% of the people interviewed women if women only make up about 51% of the population.

Surely in UK more Muslims walk around with their shirts hanging out than in Arab traditional dress?

Hmmm thinking about it....I only really see Heathrow's terminal and the Qatar lounge these days so my view may be skewed a little.

On the other hand my workdays are spent in corner shops and sub post offices many of which are run by 'immigrants' of all colours and religious persuasions

Of course, there is also a 'fanatic Christian' element- most recently the notable and tragic combination bombing/mass slaughter of teenagers by that Norwegian anti-Islamic nutter. Nutterism is created on both sides of the fences of cultural distrust. (It used to be that the Christian nutters simply blew up abortion clinics and lynched gays and black men, but that had more Christian nutter popular support than killing kids).

While Anders Behring-Breivik desdribed himself as a "Christian", it is pretty obvious that he had no religious belief. In his crazy 1,500 page manifesto, he writes that he does not have a "personal," religious relationship with Christ, but believes in Christianity "as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform," which he says "makes [him a] Christian." In short, he is just another hateful nut.

Edited November 22, 201114 yr by Ulysses G.

Of course, there is also a 'fanatic Christian' element- most recently the notable and tragic combination bombing/mass slaughter of teenagers by that Norwegian anti-Islamic nutter. Nutterism is created on both sides of the fences of cultural distrust. (It used to be that the Christian nutters simply blew up abortion clinics and lynched gays and black men, but that had more Christian nutter popular support than killing kids).

I don't think this really applies to Britain. Certainly we have our Christian nutters too, but I don't think they go in for violence like Brehvik and the Americans cited.

Anyway the topic was British Muslims... who have been seen to present more of a problem.

On the other hand my workdays are spent in corner shops and sub post offices many of which are run by 'immigrants' of all colours and religious persuasions

Oh yes my patients are of all faiths and colours, some of 'em even arrive yellow! How silly of me to have forgotten.

Try not to take everything I say so literally please.

No surprise they feel more patriotic. It's their country these days

Surely in UK more Muslims walk around with their shirts hanging out than in Arab traditional dress?

Hmmm thinking about it....I only really see Heathrow's terminal and the Qatar lounge these days so my view may be skewed a little.

On the other hand my workdays are spent in corner shops and sub post offices many of which are run by 'immigrants' of all colours and religious persuasions

Not all Muslims are Arabs. In some Muslim countries the traditional dress is loose-fitting trousers with a long shirt which is not tucked in, I believe.

SC

Surely in UK more Muslims walk around with their shirts hanging out than in Arab traditional dress?

Hmmm thinking about it....I only really see Heathrow's terminal and the Qatar lounge these days so my view may be skewed a little.

On the other hand my workdays are spent in corner shops and sub post offices many of which are run by 'immigrants' of all colours and religious persuasions

Not all Muslims are Arabs. In some Muslim countries the traditional dress is loose-fitting trousers with a long shirt which is not tucked in, I believe.

SC

The country with the largest population of Muslims is Indonesia which sort of proves my point that making sweeping generalisations about the world's second largest religion is absurd.

The country with the largest population of Muslims is Indonesia which sort of proves my point that making sweeping generalisations about the world's second largest religion is absurd.

Points like this or perhaps this source here is more to your liking.

In fact most of the countries in the world with Islam as the basis of government have radical terrorists lurking in the background. Not to say that's the policy of their governments or indeed the views of the majority of the population but its there nonetheless.

In fact most of the countries in the world with Islam as the basis of government have radical terrorists lurking in the background. Not to say that's the policy of their governments or indeed the views of the majority of the population but its there nonetheless.

bingo! it is a wellknown fact that Islamic countries are the breeding grounds of terrorism and terroristic organisations, e.g. the Irish Republican Army in Islamic Northern Ireland, the Baader-Meinhof-Group in Islamic Germany, the Red Brigade in Islamic Italy, the bask ETA in Islamic Spain, FARC in Colombia, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, Shining Path in Peru...

No surprise they feel more patriotic. It's their country these days

In fact most of the countries in the world with Islam as the basis of government have radical terrorists lurking in the background. Not to say that's the policy of their governments or indeed the views of the majority of the population but its there nonetheless.

bingo! it is a wellknown fact that Islamic countries are the breeding grounds of terrorism and terroristic organisations, e.g. the Irish Republican Army in Islamic Northern Ireland, the Baader-Meinhof-Group in Islamic Germany, the Red Brigade in Islamic Italy, the bask ETA in Islamic Spain, FARC in Colombia, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, Shining Path in Peru...

The obvious difference is that in muslim countries ignoring the radicals can lead to their downfall.

Surely the fact that we should have to differentiate into "British Muslims" points to the fact there's a problem.

I wonder how the "British Thais", "British Latvians", "British Buddhists" feel.

In fact most of the countries in the world with Islam as the basis of government have radical terrorists lurking in the background. Not to say that's the policy of their governments or indeed the views of the majority of the population but its there nonetheless.

bingo! it is a wellknown fact that Islamic countries are the breeding grounds of terrorism and terroristic organisations, e.g. the Irish Republican Army in Islamic Northern Ireland, the Baader-Meinhof-Group in Islamic Germany, the Red Brigade in Islamic Italy, the bask ETA in Islamic Spain, FARC in Colombia, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, Shining Path in Peru...

Abu Sayyaf is located in the islands between Mindanao in the Philippines and Malaysian islands to the West. All basically muslim.

IRA in N. Ireland supported strongly by Gaddafi's Libya - muslim (but not Islamist) country.

Baader Meinhof and Red Brigades are old fashioned forerunners of the current 'Occupy' and 'Global Protest' movements.

ETA and FARC are local independence groups, interested in changing particular governments and selling drugs (see also IRA).

The Islamist terrorists are aiming for global, not local, changes.

Surely the fact that we should have to differentiate into "British Muslims" points to the fact there's a problem.

I wonder how the "British Thais", "British Latvians", "British Buddhists" feel.

Not necessarily. You wouldn't have reacted that way to a mention of British Sikhs or British Hindus. Thais and Latvians are not religious groups, and Buddhists are more of a philosophy than a religion.