Essay On Thai Male Relationships, And Age..

[Ijustwannateach]

Ok I bore now- you go play other place far far away.

[Guest endure]

My oh my. You apologize in a post and state we have different views on life and you end up getting attacked for it.

There definitely seems to be an element on this forum who loves to bait new posters.

Endure wrote...Another bullshit merchant seen of into the grass.

What sort of ignorant post is that?

And, IJWT wrote...yeah I think someone was fishing for something. Fishing for what? What can I be fishing for with what I have posted? Maybe you care to explain.

I wonder if you actually read the posts or just pick the bits you want to use to provoke someone with.

What bothers me is when the person defends themselves you will sing all sweetness and like and scream Troll because you have been posting for years and have 2000 posts in the bag.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I did actually read your posts and what bothered me was your assertion that anyone who didn't have your particular take on life was 'one dimensional' and that people who 'don't understand reality can't see the truth'. Whose truth? What truth? Your truth?

Here's another one:

"But to continue, the fact that you think you live in real life is where I will end my posting on this topic as we are coming from very different view points, and I'm not in the justifying or converting business. Each to their own, as I always say."

The fact that I think I live in real life??? Who TF do you think you're talking to? The under gardener?

I'm more than happy to have a knockabout conversation with you provided you leave the high horse at home

Edited December 8, 2005 by endure

[DUMPSTER]

You see here you go again. I hope this clarifies things.

You say you think you live in "real life". The thing is I don't believe this life is real. For me it is a creation of the mind. What we see around us isn't real. It's like our life is a movie being played out.

I didnt want to take the conversation down this path because, for me, it's difficult to explain on here and misconceptions are continually made. That is what I meant by ending the conversation on this topic.

What I see as the "truth" and what you see it as is different. I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong, I'm just saying that where this topic has now gone is somewhere where I don't have enough time to post in a way that I could do the subject or myself justice without being open to ridicule. There are very few people in the world that think the way I do and I don't expect to find any on here!

As for being one dimensional, well most people are, IMO, as they only see what's in front of them and even that they choose what they want to see.

I must say you seem to take everything as a personal attack which, for the record it's not, and maybe when all said and done, it was going way off topic as was pointed out.

I hope this makes things clearer.

[Ijustwannateach]

Perhaps, then, "gay" things being part of the "unreal" world, you'd feel more comfortable on some subsection of the Buddhism forum. After all, as you said, you wouldn't expect to find anyone here who thinks the way you do, especially your interest in my nationality and in whether PB likes straight guys or not (I think these things are especially Truthful and Real, too! )

[PeaceBlondie]

I got a chuckle out of the idea that I'm interested in straight men. Not even in comedy do I like 'straight men.'

Are we off topic?

[JungleBoy]

Dumpster (and any who are interested), there actually is another person on this forum that understands what you are saying. I understand it because I have experienced 'unconditional love' many times and have experienced loving myself.

Something happened yesterday that actually is on topic. I was at a restaurant yesterday and noticed two separate couples. One couple was an elderly falang with a young (~18) man. The other was an elderly falang with a young (~22) female. I found it interesting that my perceptions of both couples was markedly different. I felt nothing for the couple with the female. I felt awkward with the couple with the young man. Let me state here that this had nothing to do with them, but EVERYTHING to do with my feelings. It shows very clearly that I've still got some things to work through because of this difference. That's because of what I want. I obviously have reasons why I'm not getting what I want and that's what's getting in the way. I want results of those wants, not reasons why I don't have what I want. So, taking the difficult road, by taking a look at my reasons (trying to understand how I am sabotaging myself) I find that I have a belief that a younger man can never love an older man. That younger men are with older men for money or security or for any number of other reasons. I have had experiences of being with younger men that did not work out because of my limitations and ignorance of relationships (amongst other things). Based on these failed experiences is why I have formed this belief. I can intellectualy see that this belief is not true, yet I have no experience of the truth (tho, I am now in the middle of two male-to-male relationships, both of the men are falang and heterosexuals (as far as I know) and in their twenties, who are amazingly loving me....100% NON-sexual). I'm also un-worldly and have not been around to know of or hear of a younger man with older man relationship actually working out. What would make me understand a bit better is for a younger man to tell me what it is that allows him to love an older man so that I may change my belief based on someones truth. The easy way is to just change my belief. However; this opens up a Pandoras Box (more positively speaking tho...opens up opportunities to work through my issues) of other issues that I have and that I believe is what is most frightening to me...finding out what other issues I have.

So, in conclusion, I see that I have this belief in order to protect myself from all those other issues that I haven't even identified yet. It's very scary.

Dumpster, if you have any words of wisdom from your own experiences, I'd like to hear what you have to say. It's always nice to have someone around who understands where one is coming from.

Thanks,

jb

[Guest endure]

You see here you go again. I hope this clarifies things.

You say you think you  live in "real life". The thing is I don't believe this life is real. For me it is a creation of the mind. What we see around us isn't real. It's like our life is a movie being played out.

I didnt want to take the conversation down this path because, for me, it's difficult to explain on here and misconceptions are continually made. That is what I meant by ending the conversation on this topic.

What I see as the "truth" and what you see it as is different. I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong, I'm just saying that where this topic has now gone is somewhere where I don't have enough time to post in a way that I could do the subject or myself justice without being open to ridicule. There are very few people in the world that think the way I do and I don't expect to find any on here!

As for being one dimensional, well most people are, IMO, as they only see what's in front of them and even that they choose what they want to see.

I must say you seem to take everything as a personal attack which, for the record it's not, and maybe when all said and done, it was going way off topic as was pointed out.

I hope this makes things clearer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the explanation. As has been pointed out you might be better posting in the Buddhist forum regarding your observations on life in general.

I have to tell you that being told that I'm 'one-dimensional' (most people are, right?) is a personal attack as far as I'm concerned. It's condescending and impertinent.

[DUMPSTER]

Endure if you want to include yourself in "most" then that is your perogative and not a personal attack on my part. As for posting in the gay forum giving a different gay guys perspective on life adds variety don't you think? Do you think all gay guys have the same outlook on life?

If you want to take my posts as condescending and impertinent again that is your choice.

If you want to choose to show respect for another post even if you don't agree then that's a better thing to do.

If you want to flame and be personal then that's a different ball game.

You chose to see my post condescending. You could also choose to think about the post and agree or disagree.

How you want to see life through your eyes is your choice.

[DUMPSTER]

JB- Really great post and I do understand the turmoil going on in your head. I hope these words help in some way.

On one hand it appears that you’re looking for some clarification of younger/older relationships working out due to failed experiences but on the other I think deep down you realize that it’s other issues from when you were younger that are causing you the problems.

The need for clarification seems to be your way of convincing yourself to pursue such a relationship again. So what % are you looking for to commit to this type of relationship? If I said only 5% workout would that convince you or would it take maybe 65%? If I got ten young guys to tell you that they are happy in their relationships with older guys would that do it?

The thing is even with clarification your issues would probably bring the exact same result as the previous attempts unless you deal with them before entering a relationship. It’s your issues you need to look at not any external evidence.

You know something from your past is convincing you that to hold onto these beliefs. Your past experiences with younger guys just gave your mind/ego all the power it needed to stop you entering another relationship. It has a very powerful hold on you too. Even 2 young guys loving you is not a strong enough force to tempt you. My guess is that some of your childhood / young adult conditioning, and not the failed relationships, have helped you form this thinking. I will say the universe is willing you to overcome these issues. Look at all the temptations it’s sending you. Deal with the issues and I’m sure you will enter a new beginning probably with a young guy at your side if that’s what you really want.

So to change your belief you need to deal with the issues.

Fear is always the major block when dealing with issues and doing it alone is always difficult. Fear keeps us rooted. Take a deep breath and convince yourself to deal with it. And do it. Seek help from someone. They are there waiting for you. Just open your eyes and look. It’s there I know it is. Go for it and good luck and if you need even more convincing just look into the eyes of those young guys and tell yourself I am deserving of their love and I am deserving of a loving relationship with whoever I choose to be with.

[ChrisP]

JungleBoy...

Well, I'm living proof of Older/Younger relationships working out.. at least for 3 years.. then 6 years (in the US).. and now getting onto 2 years in LOS... In "GAY years" I think those qualify for "Long-Term"...

ChrisP

[JungleBoy]

Dumpster, you are a very aware person. You picked out things that were dead on and only an extremely aware person would have seen those things. Your last line of your response post to me was spot on. I have an issue with being worthy. Thanks for the reminder. I'll have to change my contract that I have with myself and insert worthiness.

ChrisP, I'm extremely pleased to hear of your success. I don't imagine it was an easy road, but I'm sure it was/is well worth the effort.

I'm *assuming* that most of the posting (if not all) here is by the older side of the relationship. It would be of tremendous help and incite to hear from the younger side as to what it is about them that allows them to love the older side of the relationship. I, as an older person, can understand the lure of someone younger, and can only suppose what I would have felt when I was young to have loved an older person.

Are there any younger gays who have/are loved an older gay willing to share what it is about you that allowed/allows you to love an older person?

Are there any younger gay falangs in Thailand that are in love with an older gay Thai?

Are there any younger gay Thai's in Thailand that are in love with an older gay Thai?

jb

[DUMPSTER]

Jb you still ask for confirmations from guys of successful relationships and I wonder why this appears so important to you? Every relationship is unique. What happened in one relationship will differ from another’s because of the uniqueness of the 2 individuals in that relationship.

In my first relationship I was 17 years younger. It was my first love and my first sex. We were together nearly 7 years. So why was I attracted in the first place.

1. He was a good looking guy.

2. Sex. Sex was new to me and I wanted it.

3. Nice personality and fun to be around.

4. Nice home.

5. It was obvious he was wealthy. I must add that although my life with him was very comfortable I would not have entered the relationship if I was not attracted to him.

I entered the relationship on looks and personality. I stayed in the relationship for maybe 5 years than I should have because I was comfortable in it.

I then had a very young b/f for 3.5 years. He entered that relationship on my looks, sex and personality. I was his first love and that meant a lot to him as it did to me in my first relationship. He was from a wealthy family and I had nothing financial to offer him. I too have had other relationships/sex with younger western guys and I know there has to be an initial attraction for them to go for you. With Thais there is a different criteria for most guys. Some young westerners love to be with older guys and vice versa but the majority look for a guy around the same age. You can find that out on Gaydar with the “what age are you interested in” Most 18-24 say 18-24.

From my own personal experience I would never enter a relationship with a guy under 25. There are too many emotions going on with the younger guy and yourself to see things clearly. The young guy is constantly changing and growing as a person and that is where the problems are for the older guy. As they grow up their outlook on life changes and that may or may not then include you as was the case for me and my older b/f. As I grew I became increasingly bored of him and wanted new and exciting challenges. He was set in his ways. Again this is a less of a problem for a Thai guy as Thais are very accepting of situations they find themselves in.

What makes a relationship work between a young guy and an older man is irrelevant. What you should be asking is why do I want a relationship with a young guy? And why is it so important for me to know from young guys that they can work?

[Ijustwannateach]

[holds up left hand, puts on sock, draws cute face, two round eyes and an open, surprised-looking mouth]

Surprise Puppet: [high, squeaky voice] Well, *I* think the important thing for people is to figure out what makes them happy, and go with that as long as it works for them. Introspection and analysis can only take you so far; and even if you understand yourself, that doesn't always mean you can change anything.

[holds up right hand, puts on sock, draws knowing, cynical look with narrow eyes using marker held in Surprise Puppet's mouth]

Cynicism Puppet: [low, smug tone] That's right, although sometimes there is a gestalt shift when a person truly, honestly understands what drives him subconsciously, especially if the pattern is somehow dysfunctional.

Surprise Puppet: What do you mean by dysfunctional?

Cynicism Puppet: For example, the pattern results in harm or unhappiness to the person or those he cares about, or does not truly fulfill his needs.

Surprise Puppet: Can you give me some examples?

Cynicism Puppet: Sure- types of relationships which result in harm, for instance, are physically or emotionally abusive ones, or those which follow an addictive rather than an intimate pattern, especially if they result in financial exploitation. Those which do not fulfill needs include insufficient relationships maintained in an effort to avoid real relationships- for example, many long-distance relationships, or relationships which settle into patterns which do not fulfill the sexual or emotional needs of one or both of the patterns. Some people avoid having relationships by becoming so "choosy" that no real human being could ever qualify for their "ideal."

Surprise Puppet: Gosh gee willikers and land sakes!!! Do you think that relationships between older and younger partners necessarily share any of these problems?

Cynicism Puppet: No, not necessarily, although they are candidates for them as much as any other types of relationships. Older-younger relationships can work quite well, especially when the personal qualities and the emotional provisions of each partner turn out to be what the other one needs at those stages in their lives. To deny that they can work is to ignore the stated beliefs of many happy partners of older (and younger) persons.

Surprise Puppet: Gawwwrsh. Well, why do you think we don't see any younger posters piping up with these views here?

Cynicism Puppet: Some theories:

1. The average age of posters on this forum is a bit older so there aren't that many to post.

2. Being a Thai-related forum, the expats would usually be the "older" English-speaking partners and often the "younger" partners in these cases are the Thais, who are less likely to be able/interested in posting in English on an Internet forum.

3. Following point #2, the Thais themselves may see their attractions as less problematic than a foreigner who comes from a sex-phobic, age-difference-phobic culture, and thus once again have little reason to worry and/or post about it.

Surprise Puppet: Thanks so much, C-puppet! Now I understand *everything!*

"Steven"

[DUMPSTER]

Steven, your lack of respect for the post just shows how much credibility you deserve after, what is it, 1971 posts. You could have made the same point without the mocking but hey better to show your true self to the members and guests. Now put the sock back on and ask it why your such a fruit cake?

[Ijustwannateach]

Just ignore me and I'll go away....

[DUMPSTER]

You have already left one forum. Is this becoming a habit?

You have obviously have taken a disliking to me and my posts and are doing what you know best, trying to start a fire.

There's no hard feelings here just put the sock back on and say to yourself, I haven't been in Thailand too long and I am a good person deep down under all the layers of resentment that I have built up. I will seek therapy. I will look in the mirror everyday and say I am beautiful and I am worthy to post on TV (that's not transvestite for you ladyboy lovers out there)

That should do the trick Steven.

Good luck and always remember "God loves you" even if you don't love yourself.

[Ijustwannateach]

Aren't we getting a bit

?

After all, despite the fact that all is an illusion, you sure do have a keen interest in me.... and really, this thread ain't about me!

P.S. I just wanted to do the sock thing because I thought it was in fashion- you know, imitate the hi-flyers, follow the leader, that sort of thing!

P.P.S. Strange, I hadn't mentioned leaving any forums here.... what are you talking about?

Edited December 14, 2005 by Ijustwannateach

[DUMPSTER]

I don't really need to be reminded about going off topic. I'm not one of your students. Many posts go off topic and come back and I never see anyone say anything except you!

I'm not sure about the sock thing. I thought it was kind of mocking to JB's post and you could have just pointed out that most members on here are older foreigners so the chances of him getting a reply are pretty remote. As for the interest in you well now your becoming a little delusional yourself. I'm just responding to a post

I read somewhere you were not posting on Ajarn anymore. It was like a gay walkout. Maybe I read it wrong and your still there.

Edited December 14, 2005 by DUMPSTER

[ProThaiExpat]

Foolforlove has it right it my book. My experience is that relationships rarely last unless there is a condition of mutual need and the satisfaction thereof. We all have "things" we can share and it is the mutual sharing of "things" (both physical, material and emotional) that are the bedrock of any relationship. An unwillingness to share financially clearly eliminates all who have such a need. One who has a financial need is no "less a person" than one who has other needs that one can help satisfy. Yet it seems, many posters from the western world look down on those who have financial needs and those who satisfy them. Probably a heritage from the Christian/Judean philosphy that glorifies the "starving in the attic room " school of creativity. Love is all about sharing to me and ones inability to not include the financial is merely a limitation of ones ability to share, nothing more.

[Guest endure]

Might I suggest that anyone who's uncertain about the part that finance plays in a relationship with a Thai get hold of a copy of "Thailand Fever" by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant. It was originally written to explain the differences for Farang men/Thai women relationships but it works just as well for Farang/Thai relationships of any kind. The western view is 'if you truly love me why do you want my money' whereas the Thai view is 'if you love me why are you not willing to share your good fortune with me?' Both points of view have their merits.

[DUMPSTER]

ProThaiExpat wrote Love is all about sharing to me and ones inability to not include the financial is merely a limitation of ones ability to share, nothing more.

I agree that love is about giving and sharing but that said if one enters a relationship with someone whose sole intention is to better them self financially then the love that that person is giving or showing is not true, it's conditional and it's fake. The financial giver is entering the relationship on lust. They may believe that it's love but it is the sexual sensation that they are craving. That's why most of these relationships end. Either the lust dies or the money runs out. If the money goes the receiver goes if the lust goes the giver goes.

Giving and sharing are qualities for successful relationships but if the older / younger guy relationship is financial then success will be conditional and limited.

[ProThaiExpat]

Dumpster: How can one disagree with a point of view that begins with the use of the word "sole" when describing motivation?

There was some discussion earlier about "one diminensional" people, I have met none of this kind of person. People are by definintion, multi-dimensional or they wouldn't be "people", in my view.

I think I have spent most of my long life moving away from an absolutist point of view, to one where I view everyone as being different , but who may hold similar views, most I understand, even if I don't agree.

Your absolutist views toward "truth" "love" "divine love" etc. are not shared by most who post in this forum, so expect disagreement, it is not a lack of understanding of your views, only simple rejection.

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe I made this point on another thread, but I lived in a community property state, working hard while my wife stayed home doing virtually nothing. Yet, by a law that's not that unusual in the USA, she earned and received half of my earnings. I'm sure I paid her over 400,000 baht in some years, and after a while, the sex wasn't that good or that frequent, either.

Yes, all individuals are very complex, especially those of high intellect or accomplishment. There's nothing simplistic about human behavior, especially interpersonal relationships. On this subject of Thailand, male-male close relationships, and age (and money), I'm old enough now to be willing to pay for long-term, intimate companionship (I also was at age 22, with a woman in the West). Here, I'm 'wealthy' enough by Thai standards that I'd be a big cheapskate if I insisted on my partner paying 50% of all our expenses. I don't want an old man, and there are enough Thai gay men who want me (and the comfortable lifestyle that goes with me). It works for me.

[DUMPSTER]

ProThaiExpat wrote Your absolutist views toward "truth" "love" "divine love" etc. are not shared by most who post in this forum, so expect disagreement, it is not a lack of understanding of your views, only simple rejection.

You hit the nail right on the head. Of course I realize my views are held by only a few and I can only explain them as best I can at this time in my life. I see life, and what our purpose on this planet is, in a very different light to maybe 98% of, not just posters, but the population as a whole.

I have realized you cannot find happiness through craving for sensations like sex, food or objects and I work towards ending my craving for such things as knowing is one thing but taking action is a different ball game and while people are caught up in the sensation they cannot and will never understand and see the truth.

So I would only disagree with you on the lack of understanding because if they understood then they would not reject this point of view though a simple rejection is of course always accepted.

I would also add that just because someone disagrees with my view point it doesn’t mean I would show them any less respect than someone who does. But if someone wants to have a go or say something I disagree with then I will always put my point of view across even if some posters in this forum don’t like it.

[DUMPSTER]

One of my 16 year old students told me that a 50 year old Japanese man was interested in her. I said, He's a bit old for you isn't he? She said she didn't mind as long as he was rich. My ex told me he was at a party where everyone was in couples, foreigner and Thai except him and his friend that he took. His friend was married to a Norwegian guy but it turns out the Norwegian guy doesn't have much money. So at the party this guy went around collecting phone numbers from the farangs, despite knowing that all the foreigners were in relationships. His motive now is to find a richer b/f than the one he married! My ex on numerous occasions has stated he is looking for a rich b/f even though he earns 35,000 baht a month. So there must be something in the Thai psyche, that puts money above all else, when it comes to love and relationships.

From a 16 year old school girl from a wealthy family to a 28 year old earning 35,000 a month love appears not to rank very high when it comes to finding a b/f in Thailand. I know many other Thais with similar attitudes. On the other hand most foreigners who come here look for love which maybe clouded in lust. The reason for this is that most foreigners would not be able to attract a similar aged guy or girl back in their own country. The desire for a young beauty to be by their side can only be realized in a country like Thailand where the needs of the Thais, money and security, are met with the needs of the foreigner, a lust for a young partner. I’m not saying this is wrong as both parties will be happy with their role in the relationship, I’m just saying this is not true love.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think when people start badmouthing older-younger couples about financial arrangements, it's an easy smoke screen over the other issues. I've lived in other Asian countries (Japan, particularly) where, as I've said, money is not typically the issue in relationships between older and younger partners. That doesn't mean there aren't callboys and golddiggers, but that in typical dating arenas (normal bars) you don't usually have to be wary of them.

Here in Thailand, no matter how much age difference there is, money is *always* an issue between two partners. Perfectly decent Thai families will discuss financial issues before impending marriages. We're foolish to think we can escape this kind of involvement, no matter what kind of relationship we get into.

For some people it matters more, for others less. I would rather search a bit harder and wait a bit longer for someone who has a real job/life to help sustain himself and me. Some who are older than I am may not have as much time for that, or may have enough extra that it doesn't matter to them that they choose a partner who is bringing less in terms of job to the match than the type I am looking for. I don't think either type of person is to blame for this kind of choice, and I don't think the love which results from a long companionship is any less genuine than that which results in a longterm marriage where the husband supports a non-working homemaker wife.

"Steven"

[DrMoggles]

Here in Thailand, no matter how much age difference there is, money is *always* an issue between two partners.  Perfectly decent Thai families will discuss financial issues before impending marriages.  We're foolish to think we can escape this kind of involvement, no matter what kind of relationship we get into.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This discussion scares me a bit.

I honestly don't know if I would be able to handle all this money stuff.

I mean, if there is no true love, how much money would I have to throw at a guy to make me go

from "not so cute and boring" to "total stud, lifepartner material"?

Not that I'm looking for someone much younger than me but still,

if you want to be with me, be with me because you think I'm cool, or cute or kind or interesting.

You can't fall in love with money, you know.

[Steve2UK]

Here in Thailand, no matter how much age difference there is, money is *always* an issue between two partners.  Perfectly decent Thai families will discuss financial issues before impending marriages.  We're foolish to think we can escape this kind of involvement, no matter what kind of relationship we get into.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This discussion scares me a bit.

I honestly don't know if I would be able to handle all this money stuff.

I mean, if there is no true love, how much money would I have to throw at a guy to make me go

from "not so cute and boring" to "total stud, lifepartner material"?

Not that I'm looking for someone much younger than me but still,

if you want to be with me, be with me because you think I'm cool, or cute or kind or interesting.

You can't fall in love with money, you know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DrM - don't get swayed too much by just the negative side of what you read here. There's a phrase that you'll see elsewhere on ThaiVisa: "Your mileage may vary", sometimes abbreviated to "YMMV" - usually applied to dealings with Thai officialdom and businesses etc. It applies just as well to relationships in LOS; in fact, for personal relationships it should probably be "Your mileage will vary" .

There's certainly no shortage in LOS of what westerners would regard as "gold-diggers" and yes, sure - money talks. Reminds me of a favourite gag: "So, tell me Mrs X - what was it that first attracted you to your millionaire husband?". Most farang can recount an anecdote (whether first- or second-hand) to illustrate the theme - but it does not mean (IMO) that every Thai in every case will be like that. If you are the kind of guy who effectively holds up a sign saying "Check out my very big and very smart condo/house/car/lifestyle", then for sure you will attract the attention of the "gimme" kind of people to whom such things matter most - and it'll be difficult to spot the other kind in the crowd.

The reverse is also true - no shortage of farang who are inclined to treat their Thai partners like cars i.e. wanting to move on to the next more attractive model when the current one doesn't suit any more. In my view, for every Thai who can be accused of wanting to "trade up" there are at least half-a-dozen who are far more concerned with finding a partner who is sincere and true - and will stay that way with them. "Good heart" still counts for a lot with most Thai that I know - not to mention that many more are looking for good old-fashioned romantic true love than I see evidenced in the "progressive" west.

You can choose to be more discreet about what is almost certainly more material wealth than the average Thai has a chance of attaining - and concentrate on being cool/cute/kind/interesting. As has been said elsewhere, LOS is in many ways quite Victorian; in those days the talk was all of "marrying well". And, in LOS, status counts; just about any farang who can fall off a plane at Don Muang is automatically viewed as having higher status than nearly all but the "hi-so" Thai. Personally, I wish it weren't so - given numerous examples of what I can recognise as European dross just as well in Thailand as I can in Europe (ouch) - but it's how it is. That status combines with your other personal qualities to make you desirable company/potential partner material without your having to reach for your ATM card every day.

As IJWT says, it takes longer to meet that kind of partner. And there is a mountain of preconceptions to climb; you'll no doubt get fed up with having to say quite so often that you haven't been to Pattaya and don't have any interest in going, that you don't have another bf at home or elsewhere in LOS, that you really are looking for a relationship and not just a ONS etc etc. But, eventually, it will get accepted as true and you will be accepted for what/who you are.

Short-term success in acquiring a partner is unnervingly easy for a farang in LOS; achieving a good and lasting relationship is (IMO) about as difficult as back in our respective homelands - with most of the same hurdles and a few others to boot. Alongside those relationships, yes there are numerous examples of the "kept" partner - but probably not so many more than can be found in the west if truth be told............. it's just a tad more obvious in LOS.

Finally, yes of course it's part of Thai culture and custom to share good fortune - and there's the beginning of that grey area between having/showing "good heart" and buying your way into someone's affections. I also agree entirely with ProThaiExpat's characterisation of a relationship being a sharing (I would also say exchange) of "things" (physical, material and emotional) and a meeting of many varied mutual needs. All too easy then to decide to view a relationship where one half contributes more material "things" as being just a bought-and-paid-for "deal" - as if it were some kind of long-term leasing arrangement as opposed to a short-term hire. It's no more than a view and (IMO) a very narrow not to say cynical one - and I don't share it. I do flatter myself that I know the difference between a "kept" partner arrangement and a real partnership/relationship - and I think you will know it, too.

Edited December 26, 2005 by Steve2UK

[Guest endure]

This discussion scares me a bit.

I honestly don't know if I would be able to handle all this money stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLEASE get yourself a copy of "Thailand Fever" by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant.

[DUMPSTER]

To me it's quite simple. The more attractive a proposition you are the less money you will have to pay to maintain a relationship. If you are not very attractive or old but you want to have a cute 20 year old b/f then more likely than not you are going to have to pay for him. My b/f is 27 and I’m 39. He is ok looking as I am. We have roughly the same amount of money in our bank accounts. He has a master in English. I earn double his salary and we also have a business together which pays for all our outgoings so our salaries are our own. We don't think about money and who pays, although he being Thai Chinese he is more careful than I am. Everything in our life is 50-50. The house we are buying, although in his name, is 50-50. The fact my name isn't on any documents doesn't bother me one bit as he is the most honest and kindest person you would want to meet and never thinks of himself only others. We have been together 2 years.

Now my b/f had everything I was looking in a guy, self sufficient, educated and non fashion victim scene queen and obviously I had enough attributes for him to accept me. So you can find nice guys to have a relationship with but importantly / unfortunately it does depend a lot on what you have to offer and what you are looking for.

To be perfectly blunt the difference being here in Thailand than in the West is that there are more cute guys willing to be with an ugly or old foreigner but for sure the ugly or old foreigner is going to have to pay to be with his cute boy and if the ugly/old foreigner thinks that’s love then let him enjoy his love!