'Clear' Evidence Thai Troops Killed Japanese Cameraman

[Ulysses G.]

Who cares? Unless it was a deliberate act by the government to kill him then this really is a moot point. The poor guy died doing his job in what was basically a war zone at the time with thousands of people holding Bangkok hostage, storming offices of the government and the media while setting up armed fortresses and forcing the government to use force since they refused EVERY lawful command to disperse during their month long siege.

I am sorry anybody had to die or be injured but this reporter either knew or should have known what he was getting into and urban combat is usually has high casualty rates among non-combatants.

Hear, hear.

[yoshiwara]

it is very odd that people continue to justify the assassination of an unarmed man chatting to a reporter!

The big lie theory continues!

might be the very odd contributor who has a convenient memory blank re the armed blackshirts (he only has a picture of 'peaceful' reds [applauding Arisman]) and pushing out the fishy tale that only one side was firing serious weaponry.

[TAWP]

If you are going to pretend that anyone that writes about rumours as facts, and repeatedly states these high flown rumours as if they were fact (and the cause behind some laws) - and him making several infact very serious allegations - then you are showing your clear bias, again. You support him because you see him as a 'brother', on the same side of a conflict. If only either of you where interested in the full story instead of pushing an agenda.

"The full story"...according to TAWP. on Thaivisa.

Very droll.

Good night.

Please let us know if you share his allegations [repeatedly several times over the past 3 weeks on Twitter] and views on using rumors as facts.

It helps.

[TAWP]

it is very odd that people continue to justify the assassination of an unarmed man chatting to a reporter!

The big lie theory continues!

I think you are in the wrong thread, as that clearly isn't the topic.

And I think you are mistaken about him being unarmed.

[TAWP]

I'll tell you what, I'll answer after you tell me why peaceful protesters carry live ammo to the protest site.

Chicken and egg my friend Did the army know some of the the protesters would have guns, did the protesters know the army had live ammo? As this is Thailand I think the answer is yes to both. The peaceful protesters simply got caught in the crossfire.

Since the protester came with weapons when they were [barely] opposed by the police and the army only came into the picture later on, I think it is safe to say that there is proof that the 'protesters' (some of them) had weapons before the army was on location with any live ammo.

[ThaiOats]

It´s very possible that Muramoto was killed by a bullet from a soldier; then again nobody would have died if the Black Shirts hadn't opened fire across the Red Shirt protest area into the army on the other side. Deaths of unarmed people were not just likely, they were inevitable in the crossfire that ensued.

There's no doubt in my mind that the responsibility for all the deaths on that night is on the militia that went there and set up the ambush for the army.

The insinuation that the soldiers went there with the objective of shooting at people is ridiculous.

When I was in the army, the only time we were issued with live ammunition, apart from the rifle range, we were expected to have to use it. Are you saying Thai soldiers carry live ammo for ceremonial reasons?

I'll tell you what, I'll answer after you tell me why peaceful protesters carry live ammo to the protest site.

Chicken and egg my friend Did the army know some of the the protesters would have guns, did the protesters know the army had live ammo? As this is Thailand I think the answer is yes to both. The peaceful protesters simply got caught in the crossfire.

This is why the ignorance of the Red shirt supporters continue. Before the Army was even mobilized Red Shirt insurgents were already causing harm, carrying weapons such as molotov cocktail bombs, handguns, machetes and slingshots. I'm sure at some point they realized the Army had live ammo and that's when they should've just said "ok, let's stop and talk" but no.. instead they hid behind human shields, kinda like.. terrorists.

As many have mentioned here, the Red Shirts wanted the body count. The more people died under Abhisit's watch, the worse it would've looked for the government. What does the Army hope to gain by killing peaceful protesters and camera men.. nothing.

[tingtongfarang]

The government is in the process of replacing all the judiciary to their side, police force and government servants, they will then indict Abhisit and Suthep with witnesses for the dead of some red shirts. Abhisit and Suthep will then be cornered to accept a solution, The government will then propose an amnesty for all, including Abhisit, Suthep, the red shirts, the yellow shirts and the prime minister in Dubai.

Nice thought but wrong.

Abhisit and Suthep are small players in the war against Thaksin. Readily expendable if necessary. Any attempt by Thaksin to return under any circumstance other than as human remains means civil war. Reds who want him back have no idea of the level of commitment by those who will fight him at all costs.

Sadly, I'm sure they will eventually find out.

I fear you maybe both correct

[geriatrickid]

The government is in the process of replacing all the judiciary to their side, police force and government servants, they will then indict Abhisit and Suthep with witnesses for the dead of some red shirts. Abhisit and Suthep will then be cornered to accept a solution, The government will then propose an amnesty for all, including Abhisit, Suthep, the red shirts, the yellow shirts and the prime minister in Dubai.

Please provide examples of how the government has replaced "all the judiciary to their side". Which Supreme, Appeals and Superior court judges have been replaced? Which judges were removed from office? Your argument falls apart if you cannot substantiate your allegation.

[OZEMADE]

it is very odd that people continue to justify the assassination of an unarmed man chatting to a reporter!

The big lie theory continues!

might be the very odd contributor who has a convenient memory blank re the armed blackshirts (he only has a picture of 'peaceful' reds [applauding Arisman]) and pushing out the fishy tale that only one side was firing serious weaponry.

I remember something about it be alleged, that the military were pointing out people with a laser, they wanted the sniper to shoot.

[lannarebirth]

it is very odd that people continue to justify the assassination of an unarmed man chatting to a reporter!

The big lie theory continues!

might be the very odd contributor who has a convenient memory blank re the armed blackshirts (he only has a picture of 'peaceful' reds [applauding Arisman]) and pushing out the fishy tale that only one side was firing serious weaponry.

I remember something about it be alleged, that the military were pointing out people with a laser, they wanted the sniper to shoot.

My recollection is that there were two reports of laser usage, both by the protesters. One was on the night of April 10th when a laser was used by a spotter to point out the Armiy's command and control bunker for the subsequent grenade launch that took it out, killing the commanding officer. A later incident happened in May where a protester using a laser pen was shining it on individual soldiers. Subsequent to that act he got a bullet through his head, I'm guessing from the Army.

Edited November 30, 2011 by lannarebirth

[rubl]

I remember something about it be alleged, that the military were pointing out people with a laser, they wanted the sniper to shoot.

Don't know if I can quotefrom this site, but a seemingly red-shirt supporter wrote

2010-04-17:

"iReport — Eyewitness report, Thai devil government slander "Red shirt kill their own". But the truth is the devil Thai army kill 23 innocent people death more than 800 injured. In the video has shown that after Red shirt protester against the rubber bullet and tear gas from the army.

After they start to used up. Then Thai army start to shoot to Red shirt protester by their sniper army in the building with real bullet. After the first one death the army try to steal the body like last year(2009) to secrete the NEWS.

The unknown heroes start to help the Red shirt protester by locate the target with green laser and attack they back with M79 bom and AK-47 gun. Then the army retreat to their base."

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-433496

[Buchholz]

I remember something about it be alleged, that the military were pointing out people with a laser, they wanted the sniper to shoot.

Don't know if I can quotefrom this site, but a seemingly red-shirt supporter wrote

2010-04-17:

"iReport — Eyewitness report, Thai devil government slander "Red shirt kill their own". But the truth is the devil Thai army kill 23 innocent people death more than 800 injured. In the video has shown that after Red shirt protester against the rubber bullet and tear gas from the army.

After they start to used up. Then Thai army start to shoot to Red shirt protester by their sniper army in the building with real bullet. After the first one death the army try to steal the body like last year(2009) to secrete the NEWS.

The unknown heroes start to help the Red shirt protester by locate the target with green laser and attack they back with M79 bom and AK-47 gun. Then the army retreat to their base."

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-433496

I wonder what the writer's Thaivisa nick is.

.

[Insight]

I remember something about it be alleged, that the military were pointing out people with a laser, they wanted the sniper to shoot.

Don't know if I can quotefrom this site, but a seemingly red-shirt supporter wrote

2010-04-17:

"iReport — Eyewitness report, Thai devil government slander "Red shirt kill their own". But the truth is the devil Thai army kill 23 innocent people death more than 800 injured. In the video has shown that after Red shirt protester against the rubber bullet and tear gas from the army.

After they start to used up. Then Thai army start to shoot to Red shirt protester by their sniper army in the building with real bullet. After the first one death the army try to steal the body like last year(2009) to secrete the NEWS.

The unknown heroes start to help the Red shirt protester by locate the target with green laser and attack they back with M79 bom and AK-47 gun. Then the army retreat to their base."

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-433496

Shame the first two paragraphs were not caught on the tens of other cameras there were in the area recording footage.

The army killed 23 people, injured 800 others, and only then started with the snipers. Surely all that must of been caught by somebody else.

There's plenty of footage showing the damage done by the "heroes" however, so I presume the cameras were rolling beforehand....

[TAWP]

In the writers slander of the number of killed atleast their is clear admission that AK47s and M79 grenade launchers was used by 'unknown' Black Shirts against the army.

When war-weapons is used against armed forces it is appropriate to have live ammo for a response when needed.

[nicknostitz]

If you are going to pretend that anyone that writes about rumours as facts, and repeatedly states these high flown rumours as if they were fact (and the cause behind some laws) - and him making several infact very serious allegations - then you are showing your clear bias, again. You support him because you see him as a 'brother', on the same side of a conflict. If only either of you where interested in the full story instead of pushing an agenda.

"The full story"...according to TAWP. on Thaivisa.

Very droll.

Good night.

Please let us know if you share his allegations [repeatedly several times over the past 3 weeks on Twitter] and views on using rumors as facts.

It helps.

No idea what you are talking about - I don't do twitter or facebook, and i don't intend to.

[TAWP]

No idea what you are talking about - I don't do twitter or facebook, and i don't intend to.

Oh, sorry, I was under the presumption that you knew what he wrote about and supported him as an 'respected' journalist out of facts.

Edited November 30, 2011 by TAWP

[MAJIC]

I remember something about it be alleged, that the military were pointing out people with a laser, they wanted the sniper to shoot.

Don't know if I can quotefrom this site, but a seemingly red-shirt supporter wrote

2010-04-17:

"iReport — Eyewitness report, Thai devil government slander "Red shirt kill their own". But the truth is the devil Thai army kill 23 innocent people death more than 800 injured. In the video has shown that after Red shirt protester against the rubber bullet and tear gas from the army.

After they start to used up. Then Thai army start to shoot to Red shirt protester by their sniper army in the building with real bullet. After the first one death the army try to steal the body like last year(2009) to secrete the NEWS.

The unknown heroes start to help the Red shirt protester by locate the target with green laser and attack they back with M79 bom and AK-47 gun. Then the army retreat to their base."

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-433496

I wonder what the writer's Thaivisa nick is.

.

Yes it's too good a fake,no spelling mistakes,except bom for Bomb,and "secrete" "eye witness" "retreat" would unlikely be used by a non English Speaker,"their" could also be expected to be spelt wrong.

Most certainly calculated propaganda!

[TAWP]

MAJIC>> Since that isn't the only report of the same kind - and they got re-told by Red Shirt outlets - that would be a very bad attempt at counter-propaganda.

I really doubt Thailand had a local version of MACV-SOG set up during the riots...

[nicknostitz]

No idea what you are talking about - I don't do twitter or facebook, and i don't intend to.

Oh, sorry, I was under the presumption that you knew what he wrote about and supported him as an 'respected' journalist out of facts.

I have no idea what you are talking about unless your are getting a bit more precise with what rubbed you the wrong way.

I read Thaistory, and several of his other pieces on the topic, and found them very well researched and substantiated.

[anterian]

I'll tell you what, I'll answer after you tell me why peaceful protesters carry live ammo to the protest site.

Chicken and egg my friend Did the army know some of the the protesters would have guns, did the protesters know the army had live ammo? As this is Thailand I think the answer is yes to both. The peaceful protesters simply got caught in the crossfire.

Since the protester came with weapons when they were [barely] opposed by the police and the army only came into the picture later on, I think it is safe to say that there is proof that the 'protesters' (some of them) had weapons before the army was on location with any live ammo.

Not the sequence of events that I remember, but regardless of whom has the better memory, or should I say less politically coloured memory, since when have snipers been a weapon of crowd control? The government could have used water cannons, tear gas, baton rounds, rubber bullets, any normal government would have done so. Furthermore it does not say much for the quality of an army sniper if he manages to kill a Japanese cameraman.

[AleG]

I'll tell you what, I'll answer after you tell me why peaceful protesters carry live ammo to the protest site.

Chicken and egg my friend Did the army know some of the the protesters would have guns, did the protesters know the army had live ammo? As this is Thailand I think the answer is yes to both. The peaceful protesters simply got caught in the crossfire.

Since the protester came with weapons when they were [barely] opposed by the police and the army only came into the picture later on, I think it is safe to say that there is proof that the 'protesters' (some of them) had weapons before the army was on location with any live ammo.

Not the sequence of events that I remember, but regardless of whom has the better memory, or should I say less politically coloured memory, since when have snipers been a weapon of crowd control? The government could have used water cannons, tear gas, baton rounds, rubber bullets, any normal government would have done so. Furthermore it does not say much for the quality of an army sniper if he manages to kill a Japanese cameraman.

Funny how people keep saying that the government didn't use water canons, tear gas and other riot gear, because they did; and seems that no matter how many times this gets debunked the same people came with the same canard, over, and over again. " politically coloured memory" indeed.

By the way, you should contact the government with your evidence that an army sniper killed Muramoto.

[anterian]

It´s very possible that Muramoto was killed by a bullet from a soldier; then again nobody would have died if the Black Shirts hadn't opened fire across the Red Shirt protest area into the army on the other side. Deaths of unarmed people were not just likely, they were inevitable in the crossfire that ensued.

There's no doubt in my mind that the responsibility for all the deaths on that night is on the militia that went there and set up the ambush for the army.

The insinuation that the soldiers went there with the objective of shooting at people is ridiculous.

I'll tell you what, I'll answer after you tell me why peaceful protesters carry live ammo to the protest site.

Chicken and egg my friend Did the army know some of the the protesters would have guns, did the protesters know the army had live ammo? As this is Thailand I think the answer is yes to both. The peaceful protesters simply got caught in the crossfire.

This is why the ignorance of the Red shirt supporters continue. Before the Army was even mobilized Red Shirt insurgents were already causing harm, carrying weapons such as molotov cocktail bombs, handguns, machetes and slingshots. I'm sure at some point they realized the Army had live ammo and that's when they should've just said "ok, let's stop and talk" but no.. instead they hid behind human shields, kinda like.. terrorists.

As many have mentioned here, the Red Shirts wanted the body count. The more people died under Abhisit's watch, the worse it would've looked for the government. What does the Army hope to gain by killing peaceful protesters and camera men.. nothing.

" molotov cocktail bombs, handguns, machetes and slingshots." Just as the Yellow shirts did previously, this is standard equipment for any Thai mob. Or have you conveniently forgotten the videos of PAD members brandishing knives and waving hand guns?

[AleG]

By the way, this is what was left of the water cannon the government tried to use at Ratchaprason:

[anterian]

I'll tell you what, I'll answer after you tell me why peaceful protesters carry live ammo to the protest site.

Since the protester came with weapons when they were [barely] opposed by the police and the army only came into the picture later on, I think it is safe to say that there is proof that the 'protesters' (some of them) had weapons before the army was on location with any live ammo.

Not the sequence of events that I remember, but regardless of whom has the better memory, or should I say less politically coloured memory, since when have snipers been a weapon of crowd control? The government could have used water cannons, tear gas, baton rounds, rubber bullets, any normal government would have done so. Furthermore it does not say much for the quality of an army sniper if he manages to kill a Japanese cameraman.

Funny how people keep saying that the government didn't use water canons, tear gas and other riot gear, because they did; and seems that no matter how many times this gets debunked the same people came with the same canard, over, and over again. " politically coloured memory" indeed.

By the way, you should contact the government with your evidence that an army sniper killed Muramoto.

"By the way, you should contact the government with your evidence that an army sniper killed Muramoto." People who make comments such as this demonstrate that they are losing the debate

Yes they used various riot gear weapons in other locations, but not at the place of the final confrontation. I was a witness in 1968 to the Prague uprising against the Russian army, the Russians used tanks as bulldozers to clear the barricades, the Thai army preferred to use snipers.

[AleG]

" molotov cocktail bombs, handguns, machetes and slingshots." Just as the Yellow shirts did previously, this is standard equipment for any Thai mob. Or have you conveniently forgotten the videos of PAD members brandishing knives and waving hand guns?

So it's OK to bring guns, incendiary devices and knives to a protest then?

[AleG]

"By the way, you should contact the government with your evidence that an army sniper killed Muramoto." People who make comments such as this demonstrate that they are losing the debate

No, people make comments like that to stop people making things up, using non facts, you know, lying.

Unless you can tell us how you know for a fact that Muramoto was killed by an army sniper.

[warfie]

In the writers slander of the number of killed atleast their is clear admission that AK47s and M79 grenade launchers was used by 'unknown' Black Shirts against the army.

When war-weapons is used against armed forces it is appropriate to have live ammo for a response when needed.

Agreed...

Is my recollection correct? The first death in this mess was when the reds dropped a grenade on a sleeping army colonel's tent?

Such bravery...

[warfie]

If you are going to pretend that anyone that writes about rumours as facts, and repeatedly states these high flown rumours as if they were fact (and the cause behind some laws) - and him making several infact very serious allegations - then you are showing your clear bias, again. You support him because you see him as a 'brother', on the same side of a conflict. If only either of you where interested in the full story instead of pushing an agenda.

"The full story"...according to TAWP. on Thaivisa.

Very droll.

Good night.

Please let us know if you share his allegations [repeatedly several times over the past 3 weeks on Twitter] and views on using rumors as facts.

It helps.

No idea what you are talking about - I don't do twitter or facebook, and i don't intend to.

So, basically, you're saying that you don't know what you're talking about?

[warfie]

I'll tell you what, I'll answer after you tell me why peaceful protesters carry live ammo to the protest site.

Chicken and egg my friend Did the army know some of the the protesters would have guns, did the protesters know the army had live ammo? As this is Thailand I think the answer is yes to both. The peaceful protesters simply got caught in the crossfire.

This is why the ignorance of the Red shirt supporters continue. Before the Army was even mobilized Red Shirt insurgents were already causing harm, carrying weapons such as molotov cocktail bombs, handguns, machetes and slingshots. I'm sure at some point they realized the Army had live ammo and that's when they should've just said "ok, let's stop and talk" but no.. instead they hid behind human shields, kinda like.. terrorists.

As many have mentioned here, the Red Shirts wanted the body count. The more people died under Abhisit's watch, the worse it would've looked for the government. What does the Army hope to gain by killing peaceful protesters and camera men.. nothing.

" molotov cocktail bombs, handguns, machetes and slingshots." Just as the Yellow shirts did previously, this is standard equipment for any Thai mob. Or have you conveniently forgotten the videos of PAD members brandishing knives and waving hand guns?

Irrelevant... the topic is *'Clear' Evidence Thai Troops Killed Japanese Cameraman*

nothing to do with PAD/yellows...

[anterian]

"By the way, you should contact the government with your evidence that an army sniper killed Muramoto." People who make comments such as this demonstrate that they are losing the debate

No, people make comments like that to stop people making things up, using non facts, you know, lying.

Unless you can tell us how you know for a fact that Muramoto was killed by an army sniper.

Two consecutive comments Well in answer to your first comment, the PAD set a precedent , did they not, I saw plenty of weapons brandished by the PAD at both government house and the airport.

But then you will reply as in your second comment that I am making things up, indeed you go further and say I am lying

I obviously do not "know for a fact that Muramoto was killed by an army sniper.", anymore than you know he was not. What I do know is that the evidence, both forensic and from eye witnesses, strongly suggests this. As does the army's attempt to have the evidence squashed.

But you have used the tactic of moving the goalposts. I was discussing the military use of lethal force, you have introduced the Muramoto killing as a "red herring" , so clearly you are struggling to find an ethical justification for the use of such lethal force.

Incidentally, don't expect any further replies from me unless you withdraw your accusation of lying, I may often be misinformed, but I never lie!