Passport Renewal Idea

[matt111]

My UK passport expires summer 2012, I am within the 9 month window for passport renewal.

I plan to send the UK passport renewal application form with CC details etc.. off tomorrow via DHL to the embassy in HK. The old/existing passport does not need to be sent apparently.

My current 3mth Thai entry stamp expires mid Feb 2012 and my visa has already expired.

When I receive the new UK passport back around 6 week - start of Jan, I will be in possession of two passports which according to dates will be valid. I plan to then send the new passport to the UK via courier to friends house and who will forward it to Hull consuluate who will process the 1 year visa, return to my friends house, who will then Fedex/DHL back to me in Thailand.

In possession of two passports then, I plan to leave on the old passport (per normal), and return on the new passport which will have the new fresh 12mth visa.

Seems like it will work, however someone said that when immigration scan your passport to exit, their computers talk to the UK Passport Agency and check the validity of passport number whilst you stand there, who will then realise the old UK passport is marked 'replaced'. My question is twofold, first is this guy correct? It seem when they cant even keep the electric on the Thais can't be expected to have implemented such as clever system, and secondly, even if they realise the old UK passport is not invalid it shouldnt be a problem, they use the details from old passport to let me out.

[englishinsiam]

As far as I am aware you have to surrender your old passport and they add the remaining time to your new passport.

At least that's what I had to do when I renewed mine in Madrid. They then send your old passport back as cancelled.

You need to check with the Embassy about this the Visa issued in your old passport would still be valid and you then show both passports on leaving Thailand.

I'm pretty sure that's the way you'd go about it.

Edited November 30, 2011 by englishinsiam

[lopburi3]

Thailand is exempt on the sending of actual passport but the old passport is invalid. You must be stamped out on your new passport as the old one is invalid and will be flagged as such by computers. This will also bring to light that you obtained a Thai visa while in Thailand which will be marked invalid at that point.

[englishinsiam]

Thailand is exempt on the sending of actual passport but the old passport is invalid. You must be stamped out on your new passport as the old one is invalid and will be flagged as such by computers. This will also bring to light that you obtained a Thai visa while in Thailand which will be marked invalid at that point.

He obtained the Visa on the old passport which was valid at the time. Otherwise how does he transfer the current stamp to his new passport? Visit to Immigration?

[lopburi3]

His visa is not valid per his post. Current policy for visa entry seems to be to take care of it by using both passports at exit (no need to transfer upon receipt of new passport if not on extension of stay).

[beano2274]

What window are you on about for passport renewal? I renewed mine 5 years early. The old passport becomes invalid upon issue of the new one on the computer systems however, you must physically invalidate the old passport by cutting off the corners.

What visa will you be getting for 1 year?

Upon receiving the new passport you have to visit Thai Immigration to get the stamp transferred, if on extension. If not you will need both passports and go to the border.

Am sure that when you apply for a Visa you must also include old passports, at which time your endeavor to cheat the system will be found out and you will be in the pooh.

Also remember the new passports have the chip in them, which are scanned and the information is accessible to all.

Edited November 30, 2011 by beano2274

[lopburi3]

Upon receiving the new passport you have to visit Thai Immigration to get the stamp transferred.

This year that method seems to have been changed and those on visa entry are being told to just take care of it when leaving. Only those on extension of stay seem to be transferred these days.

[beano2274]

Upon receiving the new passport you have to visit Thai Immigration to get the stamp transferred.

This year that method seems to have been changed and those on visa entry are being told to just take care of it when leaving. Only those on extension of stay seem to be transferred these days.

I quickly added that bit after sorry.

[cardholder]

The important things are that:-

1. You will be in Thailand without a valid passport (I accept that a police check for example or a border point at,say, Cong Sa Ngam, would not pick this up.

2. The point has already been made that on any subsequent exit from Thailand a sharp eyed immigration officer would pick up the fact that you have no entry stamp (or an entry stamp dated before the issue of the visa). That could very easily put you in the brown stuff !

[matt111]

I think some confusion here.

When renewing a UK passport from Thailand you DO NOT have to send the old passport. My current passport is valid until mid-2012. I will be in possession of at least 1 passport at all times, there may be a period of 72hrs from when HK process the new passport it to when they return via courier where technically the passport in my possession has been marked 'invalid' on some big computer somewhere.

What window are you on about for passport renewal? I renewed mine 5 years early

it is 9 month window to renew out of the country unless you have a valid excuse otherwise (loss, theft, damage, change of particulars - sex change etc..) presumably to prevent fraud,

Changed my mind about explored this further. I guess invalid/replaced probably makes it illegal so instead I'll play it safe, thanks

Edited November 30, 2011 by matt111

[cardholder]

I think some confusion here.

When renewing a UK passport from Thailand you DO NOT have to send the old passport. My current passport is valid until mid-2012. I will be in possession of at least 1 passport at all times, there may be a period of 72hrs from when HK process the new passport it to when they return via courier where technically the passport in my possession has been marked 'invalid' on some big computer somewhere.

What window are you on about for passport renewal? I renewed mine 5 years early

it is 9 month window to renew out of the country unless you have a valid excuse otherwise (loss, theft, damage, change of particulars - sex change etc..) presumably to prevent fraud,

Changed my mind about explored this further. I guess invalid/replaced probably makes it illegal so instead I'll play it safe, thanks

matt - I think you have sussed that although you still have possession of your passport it is electronically cancelled by HK UPON APPLICATION - therefore it is no longer valid.

Of course you can try and use at border points that do not have electronic systems BUT the main issue remains your first border run/exit on a passport with no entry stamp.

[beano2274]

As far as I am aware there is no 9 month rule, I think you have missed something there. I changed mine as it was getting rather full, and I have been out of the country for 7 years now, so that means it was my second one issued outside the UK.

Upon receipt by HKG of your application your old passport becomes invalid. They have your old passport number so they enter it onto the database as being replaced.

Also the passport comes from IPS UK, and not HKG. So already it has been entered onto the UK Database at source, ready for distribution via computer links to immigration computers around the world.

And I know that you do not send the old one, I renewed mine in August, and I keep telling others here the same thing.

Edited November 30, 2011 by beano2274

[KamnanT]

Without commenting on the wisdom of exiting Thailand on a passport that the UK IPS has electronically cancelled, I will comment on whether or not Thai immigration computers somehow communicate with those in the UK in real-time as UK nationals enter and leave Thailand. The short answer is no. Surprisingly, there are very few real-time data exchanges going on between national immigration authorities anywhere in the world. There are, of course, flag lists that are passed around on a periodic basis (e.g. Interpol) but for the most part each nation maintains its own list of undesirables and its own database of issued, valid and cancelled passports for nationals of that country.

All rather surprising in this post-9/11 age --- one would think that some international agency would have coordinated a real-time network to link all of these disparate computer systems together. If such a system were in place, counterfeit passports would be a thing of the past, as every immigration officer in every country could check your passport details against your home country's national passport database and see immediately if any details had been altered or if the photo or biometrics were of a different person. The fact that immigration officers still need to examine your passport carefully for signs of alteration or counterfeiting must mean they have no real-time access to your country's database.

I believe there are some exceptions, however - Canada and the US do share information in real-time and the Schengen zone countries have a single, shared database of entry and exit details, although I don't know if this extends to real-time information sharing of details on all passports issued by Schengen zone member states.

[MrMuddle]

Upon receiving the new passport you have to visit Thai Immigration to get the stamp transferred.

This year that method seems to have been changed and those on visa entry are being told to just take care of it when leaving. Only those on extension of stay seem to be transferred these days.

I need to renew my UK passport in late January, which I plan to send off while I'm in Bangkok for a health check, so I think I'm OK on the 9 month rule (it expires early October 2012). When (or possibly if !) I get the new passport, do I take it to my local immigration office to transfer the retirement stamp, which is at Phitsanulok, and is the transfer free, or is there a fee to pay ? Thanks for your help.

[beano2274]

What is the 9 month rule that everyone dreams of?

There is no such rule.

I never paid for my transfer (Nonthaburi)

[cardholder]

What is the 9 month rule that everyone dreams of?

There is no such rule.

I never paid for my transfer (Nonthaburi)

Indeed not. I shall renew my passport in December when I visit the UK (express service is only 65% of the cost of sending via HK) - I have almost 5 years left, but only one page !

You can renew when you wish.

[Soutpeel]

What is the 9 month rule that everyone dreams of?

There is no such rule.

I never paid for my transfer (Nonthaburi)

There is no 9 month rule, and you dont pay for stamp transfers

[puchooay]

There is a rule about nine months but the OP seems to have misunderstood.

If you apply for a new passport within 9 months of expiry then you do not lose any time.

ie. I applied with 8 months to go and got my new passport back with 10 years and 8 months validity.

If you apply outside of this window then the date on your new passport is simply 10 years from application date.

[beano2274]

There is a rule about nine months but the OP seems to have misunderstood.

If you apply for a new passport within 9 months of expiry then you do not lose any time.

ie. I applied with 8 months to go and got my new passport back with 10 years and 8 months validity.

If you apply outside of this window then the date on your new passport is simply 10 years from application date.

I applied for a new passport and had around 5 years on my passport still, new passport received with 10 years and

9 months on it. The 9 months is the maximum time given additionally to your passport validity.

Pasted and copied from www.aboutimmigration.co.uk

Applicants who are renewing a passport or replacing an existing child’s passport with an adult one may make their application before the existing passport expires. Up to 9 months’ unexpired validity from the old passport may be credited to the new one.

Edited December 1, 2011 by beano2274

[puchooay]

What was your reason for renewal? I was told via email from HK that if there is no reason for early renewal, ie full passport, then only 10 years would be received.

Maybe I should have stated that in my first post. Sorry if it sounded misleading.

[beano2274]

What was your reason for renewal? I was told via email from HK that if there is no reason for early renewal, ie full passport, then only 10 years would be received.

Maybe I should have stated that in my first post. Sorry if it sounded misleading.

I had about a page and a half left on my passport, so decided to renew 5 years early.

[TexasRanger]

I did a Hong Kong renewal recently and the cancel your old passport as soon as they start processing your new one so you won't be able to use that one anymore.

[mafumo]

Hi all ,

just reading the previous posts , leaves me with a question . I am applying at present for a british passport from Hong Hong , sent application on 29 th Nov and my airport visa expires on the 14th Dec . My existing passport will be cancelled apon receipt of application. What do I do to renew visa I need to be in Thailand till 2 nd Jan .

Any advise is greatly appreciated .

Cheers. M .

[lopburi3]

When you get new passport you leave the country, showing both passports, and return for a new 15 day (land) or 30 day (air) entry.

[RandomSand]

Has anyone actually tried to go through immigration on a "canceled" passport ?

From what I've read; The scan of the passport is to read the typed characters via OCR which are then matched-up with the details on the chip. These should be the same (obviously!). Further; as someone else in this noted, there is not a check done on every passport (positive validity). Rather; a check is done for negative validity via cross reference to a list of lost & stolen documents that is maintained by Interpol

I do not know if "canceled" passports are added to this list.

What's interesting is that specific economic areas, EU or APEC for examples, can maintain constant communication to verify validity on a live basis (positive validity). It's certainly possible that Hong Kong could notify into the APEC system about a canceled document but I speculate here.

Now; If we have some grasp of the situation in this way; we can then debate various matters like Advanced Passenger Information Systems. APIS is used by Airlines to provide countries with information about whom to expect at arrival. Thailand is to roll out APIS in 2012-13 with a B90 surcharge for all passengers. I think Thailand would be fully using the APEC system by this time (if not already?) and there would be even more airport fees/taxes added onto the cost of travel.... not just B90!

Travelers holding multiple passports may find it useful to know about APIS as it is at odds with the way they use multiple passports in many ways.

[rinteln]

HI,

Probably easier just to say that your idea wont work. There are so many issues. I had this situation last year and I was lucky but it involved me walking up and down between borders in no mans land at Sadao 2 or 3 times. I learnt the hard way. I didnt have a clue and tried to wing it.

The problem is your old passport will not be electronically activated as they deactivate as soon as the new passport has been applied for. Also when you leave Thailand on the old passport they will stamp this with the exit stamp and not the new passport. So whatever country you arrive into they will insist on seeing an exit stamp in the passport you want to use. Ofcourse you cant show them the exit stamp on the old passport as you cant use that to enter the new country. So its like a yo yo effect back and forth. So you have to get the Thai police at your exit to stamp the new passport with the exit stamp. Sounds simple but it may not be. I was lucky but not sure its normal procedure for them to do that.

As far as the Hull idea goes. I suppose it could be technically possible as the theory could be the same. If you can get the exiting immigration to stamp the new passport with the exit stamp and not the old passport and just get into the next country then it could technically work but very risky. As someone said, if you get a switched on immigration guy then it could go wrong. Wouldnt advise.

I think the 100% best/safe way is to just get the stamps transferred in Bangkok when you have both passports. I have forgotten what the place is called but you can get them transferred for a fee. Then just get a visa from a nearby Embassy. I know its not as good as the Hull option but I would forget the Hull idea. Its risky. Remember, no one knows what checks Hull make with Bangkok when processing visas. What if it all goes wrong and you are stuck in Thailand with an old invalid passport.

Edited February 9, 2012 by rinteln

[Mario2008]

Transfer of stamps is free.

[Stocky]

I'm going to have to renew my UK passport through HK shortly. I've now no blank pages, though easy room for about 6 or 7 further entry/exit stamps. Immigration pointed this out whilst finding space when I came through Survarnabhumi the other day.

Looking at the embassy website information on passport applications the previous advice about retaining your passport and just sending a photocopy of the bio page has disappeared (or I couldn't find it). Does anyone know if you're now required to submit the current passport with your application and if so how do you get by in Thailand without any ID short of a photocopy??

[lopburi3]

As you sure? This was specific only to Thailand so should still be on site - but that is not the site where normal new passport information is contained.

[lopburi3]

If you click on website you get a link to

http://ukinhongkong....apply/thailand/

If you click on that website link for replacement passport it takes you to the normal send passport application to Hong Kong information - no asking to send passport.

And it clearly says (way down in the text):

ORIGINAL PASSPORT: Thailand is an exception to the main guidance given on our primary website. It is not advised to be without your original passport in Thailand and we recognise this. You may therefore submit a clear photocopy of your passport (just the page with your personal details and photograph). Please note that the passport being renewed will be electronically cancelled and is therefore not valid for use as a travel document from the moment you submit your application. On receipt of your new passport, you must physically cancel your old passport by cutting the corners of the photo page and the front and back covers. Failure to do so may leave your replaced passport open to abuse. Alternatively, you should visit the British Embassy in Bangkok to have your replaced passport physically cancelled.