Thailand Ranks 80th In 2011 Corruption Perception Index

[timewilltell]

80th among 183 countries as opposed to 78th among 178 countries last time. The added countries are most likely going not going to be the most important or advanced nations - rather new ones that have come along or small ones that have been added - in other words they have most likely added 5 very poorly performing countries and yet Thailand has slipped 2 places. If my reasoning is correct the inference is it has actually got worse and been overtaken by two countries who have improved. Not much to be proud about really!

Edited December 2, 2011 by timewilltell

[cgphuket]

Wow, I thought Thailand would have made the top 20 at least.

[drdoom6996]

(SARCASM) Is this a Thai study?

[CockneyGit]

All four Scandinavian countries in the top 6...!!!

The future's bright, the future's Scando!

"All aboard - off to the Fjords..!!"

[MickGC]

I have always wondered why everyone thinks Thailand is so corrupt.

Now I now why. I work in Papua New Guinea who ranked 154, with Zimbabwe, and Laos. Thais are a law abiding lot by comparison.

Let me give few examples;

1. The police is always there to extort money fromthe drivers but never there to enforce traffic laws

2. Officials always lie to make the point and alwaystell the story in a very positive ways.

3. All projects are substandard and only disinters likeflood make it obvious, and even then no one is responsible for the failures

4. You can pay money so the law enforcement peopleto look away and not enforce the low

5. Politicians have the inside for projects andthey always use the information for close friends and family to get rich

Etc. etc.

I'm not sure how much experience you've had with "developing" or "third world" countries. Apparently Thailand is now technically described as "newly industrialised".

Comparisons are odious as they say. What I'm saying is that versus its contemporaries Thailand isn't doing too badly.

I've always been a "glass half full" kind of guy though.

I know it isn't all that fashionable here on TV, but I like Thailand.

I'm with you on this one sfbandung . I also like Thailand.

At least the corruption here is up front.

I'd rather pay a copper B200 and all is forgotten rather than B8000 and possible loss of license back in our "uncorrupt" western countries.

[blackthorn2005]

Inching their way, gained 2 more points this year.

By mathematics Thailand will be the most corrupt circus on July 1st, 2063 - well, by then I will no longer be around hence I just carry on greasing the palms of the sons and daughters of Siam then .......

It is already there, Transparency International just can't see clearly, or they were paid to close their eyes!

[witsawakorn]

I have always wondered why everyone thinks Thailand is so corrupt.

Now I now why. I work in Papua New Guinea who ranked 154, with Zimbabwe, and Laos. Thais are a law abiding lot by comparison.

Hardly countries to measure how good Thailand's doing ...

OK Thailand got the same score as Greece and a better score than many Eastern European countries and much better than many of it's SE Asian neighbours

[HerbalEd]

Thais are a law abiding lot by comparison.

Nah, they're just better at hiding it these days.

If they're "hiding it" then how would you know?

[HerbalEd]

What was the price for staying below 100?

No too many years ago when the list held 80 countries Thailand was near the bottom.

Add more banana Republics like Papua New Guinea, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Laos and Thailand lands up in the middle of the row.

Who paid for this? Good question. Who pays for maintaining Transparency International (TI) - and for that matter its sister Honesty International (HI) - with offices around the world, "leaders" driving MB cars, smoking Havanas? When you realistically analyze this you come to the conclusion it is political type claptrap.

Please name one thing that this TI analyzes or HI analyzes does that makes the slightest improvement in the lives of the people around the world.

Be realistic, what goes on in Thailand also goes on in other countries around the world, some more, some less, but none is squeaky clean anymore because that has gone by the wayside at the conclusion of WW I when the slide down became apparent and now a hundred years later it is thundering down the slope with no slowing it down, let alone stop it.

Do you actually know the people and goings-on of TI and HI ... or are you just a cynic making assumptions?

[tombkk]

Define "corruption".

Scenario #1: My customer needed a licence to be issued in Laos. The government official told him (frankly) that his salary is very low and he needs some money from him to issue the licence. My customer refused, as he would not get a receipt for that payment.

Scenario #2: I went to the US and ordered a beer in a pub. There was some discussion when the waiter expected 15% tip. I learned that the waiter worked for minimum wage, or even US$ 1/hour, and depended on the tips to survive. There was no receipt for the tip.

Point in case: In some countries, people are paid to just show up for work. If you need them to perform a service, you have to pay for it.

[whybother]

Doesn't mean squat...its only perception not reality. Whether or not Thailand is really becoming less corrupt would depend on a lot of factors that no one will want to talk about...

I think you will find the exact opposite. These surveys are done using strict criteria and are about fact not perception. How many of the sideline commentators here are using anything other than anecdotal evidence, personal experience and the 'circle jerk' phenomena that ipasses for informed debate. Sure there is corruption here, no doubt about it but probably not as endemic as many believe.

"These surveys are done using strict criteria and are about fact not perception."

Thailand ranks 80th in 2011 Corruption Perception Index

[Mitker]

Define "corruption".

Scenario #1: My customer needed a licence to be issued in Laos. The government official told him (frankly) that his salary is very low and he needs some money from him to issue the licence. My customer refused, as he would not get a receipt for that payment.

Scenario #2: I went to the US and ordered a beer in a pub. There was some discussion when the waiter expected 15% tip. I learned that the waiter worked for minimum wage, or even US$ 1/hour, and depended on the tips to survive. There was no receipt for the tip.

Point in case: In some countries, people are paid to just show up for work. If you need them to perform a service, you have to pay for it.

Differences:

- scenario #1 is illegal. Scenario #2 is not. (most countries allow for some margin in accounting books to cover clean tips)

- in case you don't like policy of bar in scenario #2, you are free to switch to another place (at least next time). Impossible in scenario #1

- Definitely, the receipt is not the issue. Having the performing of official duties hijacked by rotten officials is detrimental to your affairs and the whole country.

[ginjag]

I have always wondered why everyone thinks Thailand is so corrupt.

Now I now why. I work in Papua New Guinea who ranked 154, with Zimbabwe, and Laos. Thais are a law abiding lot by comparison.

Let me give few examples;

1. The police is always there to extort money fromthe drivers but never there to enforce traffic laws

2. Officials always lie to make the point and alwaystell the story in a very positive ways.

3. All projects are substandard and only disinters likeflood make it obvious, and even then no one is responsible for the failures

4. You can pay money so the law enforcement peopleto look away and not enforce the low

5. Politicians have the inside for projects andthey always use the information for close friends and family to get rich

Etc. etc.

I'm not sure how much experience you've had with "developing" or "third world" countries. Apparently Thailand is now technically described as "newly industrialised".

Comparisons are odious as they say. What I'm saying is that versus its contemporaries Thailand isn't doing too badly.

I've always been a "glass half full" kind of guy though.

I know it isn't all that fashionable here on TV, but I like Thailand.

I'm with you on this one sfbandung . I also like Thailand.

At least the corruption here is up front.

I'd rather pay a copper B200 and all is forgotten rather than B8000 and possible loss of license back in our "uncorrupt" western countries.

I like Thailand---But---why pay 200 bht when you don't do wrong ??? you would rather do that ??? and if you do wrong -then pay 8000 bht and lose your licence, thats up to your driving, so you condone corruption.

[tombkk]

Define "corruption".

Scenario #1: My customer needed a licence to be issued in Laos. The government official told him (frankly) that his salary is very low and he needs some money from him to issue the licence. My customer refused, as he would not get a receipt for that payment.

Scenario #2: I went to the US and ordered a beer in a pub. There was some discussion when the waiter expected 15% tip. I learned that the waiter worked for minimum wage, or even US$ 1/hour, and depended on the tips to survive. There was no receipt for the tip.

Point in case: In some countries, people are paid to just show up for work. If you need them to perform a service, you have to pay for it.

Differences:

- scenario #1 is illegal. Scenario #2 is not. (most countries allow for some margin in accounting books to cover clean tips)

- in case you don't like policy of bar in scenario #2, you are free to switch to another place (at least next time). Impossible in scenario #1

- Definitely, the receipt is not the issue. Having the performing of official duties hijacked by rotten officials is detrimental to your affairs and the whole country.

In both scenarios, there is no hijacking. It used to be (many years ago) that we had to pay THB 200 for each customs entry, without receipt. This has been changed, so that we now get a receipt. So, the only change is whether or not we get a receipt.

The official in Laos gets a salary that is a pittance. It only requires him to show up, very much like the bartender. No difference. Yes, I can go to another bar, but I will encounter the same scenario. It is the system, there is no difference.

If you want to avoid government officials or bartenders requiring you to pay for each service, the only solution is to pay them a decent salary. Therefore, if you don't want to pay for individual services, you must be willing to pay higher income taxes. The other solution of course is to issue official receipts and use that money to increase the salaries.

[animatic]

What was the price for staying below 100?

A lot less than if you want to be in the top 10........

If any one had asked me which South American country was the most corrupt I might have said Columbia but to find out that Thailand has the same score is disturbing.

I have a Columbian friend who was here for 4 years.

He says, 'he feels safer and less likely to be conned in Columbia...'

[animatic]

80th among 183 countries as opposed to 78th among 178 countries last time. The added countries are most likely going not going to be the most important or advanced nations - rather new ones that have come along or small ones that have been added - in other words they have most likely added 5 very poorly performing countries and yet Thailand has slipped 2 places. If my reasoning is correct the inference is it has actually got worse and been overtaken by two countries who have improved. Not much to be proud about really!

Yes a good point.

And this was under the Dems.

Wonder what the ranking under PTP and the Liege Lord will be?

Of course we do know that in times of World Wide Economic Distress corruption and general crime goes up, not down.

So it is devilishly hard to compare between

'Boom TImes and Recessions'.

Of course doing so is a cottage industry for PTP.

But things were better 7 years ago... during the REGIONAL up cycle. so our leaders MUST have been better than.

A spurious argument at best, and blatantly misleading at worst.

Edited December 4, 2011 by animatic

[tombkk]

I'm not sure how much experience you've had with "developing" or "third world" countries. Apparently Thailand is now technically described as "newly industrialised".

Comparisons are odious as they say. What I'm saying is that versus its contemporaries Thailand isn't doing too badly.

I've always been a "glass half full" kind of guy though.

I know it isn't all that fashionable here on TV, but I like Thailand.

I'm with you on this one sfbandung . I also like Thailand.

At least the corruption here is up front.

I'd rather pay a copper B200 and all is forgotten rather than B8000 and possible loss of license back in our "uncorrupt" western countries.

I like Thailand---But---why pay 200 bht when you don't do wrong ??? you would rather do that ??? and if you do wrong -then pay 8000 bht and lose your licence, thats up to your driving, so you condone corruption.

The thing in Thailand (and that's a big difference to other countries) is that the traffic cops won't stop you and make up something. They will only stop you if you really violate the traffic regulations (wrong turn, no seat belt, etc). I have never been stopped for made-up reasons. Of course, this applies to Bangkok, I don't know about the provinces.

[ginjag]

I'm not sure how much experience you've had with "developing" or "third world" countries. Apparently Thailand is now technically described as "newly industrialised".

Comparisons are odious as they say. What I'm saying is that versus its contemporaries Thailand isn't doing too badly.

I've always been a "glass half full" kind of guy though.

I know it isn't all that fashionable here on TV, but I like Thailand.

I'm with you on this one sfbandung . I also like Thailand.

At least the corruption here is up front.

I'd rather pay a copper B200 and all is forgotten rather than B8000 and possible loss of license back in our "uncorrupt" western countries.

I like Thailand---But---why pay 200 bht when you don't do wrong ??? you would rather do that ??? and if you do wrong -then pay 8000 bht and lose your licence, thats up to your driving, so you condone corruption.

The thing in Thailand (and that's a big difference to other countries) is that the traffic cops won't stop you and make up something. They will only stop you if you really violate the traffic regulations (wrong turn, no seat belt, etc). I have never been stopped for made-up reasons. Of course, this applies to Bangkok, I don't know about the provinces.

WHAT ???? you must be joking, saying this you will stir up a hornets nest. (unless you said it for joke). The Thai police are like a private enterprise, they are after tea money---I,m sorry but you are speaking rubbish, ask around more about experiences.

Warning--do not leave the Bkk district. You did say this applies to Thailand---you didn,t say only Bkk, better you should have said Bkk only.

[h90]

how much for change the ranking next year to place 2?

[dutchweller]

I have always wondered why everyone thinks Thailand is so corrupt.

Now I now why. I work in Papua New Guinea who ranked 154, with Zimbabwe, and Laos. Thais are a law abiding lot by comparison.

Let me give few examples;

1. The police is always there to extort money fromthe drivers but never there to enforce traffic laws

2. Officials always lie to make the point and alwaystell the story in a very positive ways.

3. All projects are substandard and only disinters likeflood make it obvious, and even then no one is responsible for the failures

4. You can pay money so the law enforcement peopleto look away and not enforce the low

5. Politicians have the inside for projects andthey always use the information for close friends and family to get rich

Etc. etc.

I'm not sure how much experience you've had with "developing" or "third world" countries. Apparently Thailand is now technically described as "newly industrialised".

Comparisons are odious as they say. What I'm saying is that versus its contemporaries Thailand isn't doing too badly.

I've always been a "glass half full" kind of guy though.

I know it isn't all that fashionable here on TV, but I like Thailand.

I'm with you on this one sfbandung . I also like Thailand.

At least the corruption here is up front.

I'd rather pay a copper B200 and all is forgotten rather than B8000 and possible loss of license back in our "uncorrupt" western countries.

I guess you would rather have the HUGE road death toll and the Total disregard for safety laws on the road too?

No seat belts, Speeding, Driving on the wrong side, Unsafe vehicles, Drink driving, No lights, No helmets... This is the reason it is so unsafe on the roads here the laws are broken without a second thought because everyone knows you can slip a few bhat to the drunk Useless Police man and it is like you never did anything wrong.

There is a reason the "western Countries" have higher fines and stiffer penalty it is because we DON'T want people to brake the law and the money from the Fines gos to help educate and improve the standards and the suspension of the license keeps unsafe people off the road.

[tombkk]

I like Thailand---But---why pay 200 bht when you don't do wrong ??? you would rather do that ??? and if you do wrong -then pay 8000 bht and lose your licence, thats up to your driving, so you condone corruption.

The thing in Thailand (and that's a big difference to other countries) is that the traffic cops won't stop you and make up something. They will only stop you if you really violate the traffic regulations (wrong turn, no seat belt, etc). I have never been stopped for made-up reasons. Of course, this applies to Bangkok, I don't know about the provinces.

WHAT ???? you must be joking, saying this you will stir up a hornets nest. (unless you said it for joke). The Thai police are like a private enterprise, they are after tea money---I,m sorry but you are speaking rubbish, ask around more about experiences.

Warning--do not leave the Bkk district. You did say this applies to Thailand---you didn,t say only Bkk, better you should have said Bkk only.

I have been outside of Bangkok . But most of the past 20 years I have been driving in Bangkok, and Thailand is a huge country. I have never been stopped by the police up if I didn't do anything wrong.

And that's the truth. Tell us about your experiences.

[tombkk]

I'm with you on this one sfbandung . I also like Thailand.

At least the corruption here is up front.

I'd rather pay a copper B200 and all is forgotten rather than B8000 and possible loss of license back in our "uncorrupt" western countries.

I guess you would rather have the HUGE road death toll and the Total disregard for safety laws on the road too?

No seat belts, Speeding, Driving on the wrong side, Unsafe vehicles, Drink driving, No lights, No helmets... This is the reason it is so unsafe on the roads here the laws are broken without a second thought because everyone knows you can slip a few bhat to the drunk Useless Police man and it is like you never did anything wrong.

There is a reason the "western Countries" have higher fines and stiffer penalty it is because we DON'T want people to brake the law and the money from the Fines gos to help educate and improve the standards and the suspension of the license keeps unsafe people off the road.

The amount of THB 200 is a lot for a motorcycle driver. He has gotten fined (why do you think most of them wear helmets now?), and he does not care whether he gets a receipt or not.

[ginjag]

I like Thailand---But---why pay 200 bht when you don't do wrong ??? you would rather do that ??? and if you do wrong -then pay 8000 bht and lose your licence, thats up to your driving, so you condone corruption.

The thing in Thailand (and that's a big difference to other countries) is that the traffic cops won't stop you and make up something. They will only stop you if you really violate the traffic regulations (wrong turn, no seat belt, etc). I have never been stopped for made-up reasons. Of course, this applies to Bangkok, I don't know about the provinces.

WHAT ???? you must be joking, saying this you will stir up a hornets nest. (unless you said it for joke). The Thai police are like a private enterprise, they are after tea money---I,m sorry but you are speaking rubbish, ask around more about experiences.

Warning--do not leave the Bkk district. You did say this applies to Thailand---you didn,t say only Bkk, better you should have said Bkk only.

I have been outside of Bangkok . But most of the past 20 years I have been driving in Bangkok, and Thailand is a huge country. I have never been stopped by the police up if I didn't do anything wrong.

And that's the truth. Tell us about your experiences.

Because of the history of events with the bib, the road blocks are set up for money that will not go to the treasury. To supplement the wages. I have not had a problem, because I always speak a little enough Thai to swing the conversation to football-English premier-the bib love it. I was a football ref and tell them, so the conversation is good and they let me through, but thats my style, most posters will tell you of their bad experiences having to pay tea money. I didn't doubt you personally, but only questioned the transparency of the police. Believe me it is widespread and understood that the scams are happening everyday. Past posts on this said subject will reveal what I said==common problem.

[whybother]

The other paper is reporting that Thailand is now 88th out of 176 in the 2012 corruption index.

They were 80th out of 183 in last years corruption index.

Edited December 6, 2012 by whybother

[arthurboy]

The other paper is reporting that Thailand is now 88th out of 176 in the 2012 corruption index.

They were 80th out of 183 in last years corruption index.

Would be interesting to see Thailand's reaction to this. but I won't be holding my breath.

The numerous people I speak to at work - whether privately or in a group - without exception - all have some experience of corruption. This includes people from the neighbourhood collecting money to pay the local amphur to come and unblock the drains to paying tea money to schools - a lot of people admit to this - to ensure their child gets in at the school of choice.

However, despite this, no one has an opinion or comment on their responsibility to do something about it.

If I opine that people could take to the street to peacefully protest and demand something be done, I'm met with a smile and the occasional 'what can we do'.

When I mention the impact of corruption on their children's future, I receive the same response. If I ask how corruption squares with the central precepts of Buddhism, I get a smile.

Like I said, I won't be holding my breath on this one.

[cashlamb99]

I have lived in Thailand(2004--2013) eight years,stopped on my motorcycle 3 times. two times paid small fine my fault, 3rd time only checked my Thai licsence .. Police contacts-----Drunk on beach , over night in jail 100B..thai drunk hit me on head with a Big Chang beer bottle, Bloody, she stay in jail over night... I forgot a rouge company inpounded my bike and wanted 1500 B , I was at soi 9 traffic police, and THE colonel over heard my problem, quicky called up the scammers and settled on 500B also give a used helmet and ten old bike keys..I can make master keys ,free............2006 spent a year road trip,around Thailand from Laos to Malaysia to Pattaya..5yrs Pattaya no problem and that's the TRUTH......... So far I like Thai Police...........ROAD TRIP TO EAST PENINSULA MALAYSIA IN FEW MONTHS,,,,,,NEED RIDDERS....JOIN THE FUN...6 MONTHS VACATION,THEN COME BACK TO THAILAND.........