Forum And Discussion About The Bombing Of Pearl Harbor

[DonaldBattles]

On Wed. Dec. 7 we will have a special discussion and forum at the Little Longhorn Saloon in Doi Hang on the bombing of Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941. Was there a conspiracy, did the government know where the Japanese fleet was? Why did they send the only 2 aircraft carries out to see with no escorts. Manny people have theroies so bring yours and lets share them.

We will serve free Nacho Chips and Salsa. The discussion starts at 12:00 and finishes at 15:00.

[thegovernor]

Those nazi bastards!!!!!!

[Flatouthruthefog]

Those nazi bastards!!!!!!

Agreed. But as that lot was on the other side of the planet, let's stick to the topic.

I'm delighted that, as your talk was held in Thailand, this thread is allowed to continue.

And as Japanese forces landed on south eastern Thai beaches about the same time as the Pearl attack (as they did in northern Borneo and many other places) it is indeed Thai relevant.

Many readers here would be very interested in a report of your evening, I am sure.

Hope you can post it here!

[Limbo]

Those nazi bastards!!!!!!

Agreed. But as that lot was on the other side of the planet, let's stick to the topic.

I'm delighted that, as your talk was held in Thailand, this thread is allowed to continue.

And as Japanese forces landed on south eastern Thai beaches about the same time as the Pearl attack (as they did in northern Borneo and many other places) it is indeed Thai relevant.

Many readers here would be very interested in a report of your evening, I am sure.

Hope you can post it here!

And when we are at it Flatouthruthefog: why not go one step further and discuss

the role the Japanese played in Chiang Rai during the second world war?

After all this is a Chiang Rai forum and this town was actually under command

of the Japanese.

For us living here it might be more interesting to learn about the strategic importance

of the Japanese military airport at the Doi Kao Kwai, the anti aircraft artillery that

was installed on this temple mountain to protect it, the spectacular bomb raids of the

'Flying Tigers' and, even more interesting the way the Thai local people, or should I

say the local 'Seri Thai', protected their western friends by helping them to escape or

by hiding them for as long as the war lasted, often endangering their lives in doing so.

Many Chiang Rai peope earned honors at that time that were never given to them ...

On March 24 in 1942 the pilot William McGarry was shot down near Chiang Mai with his

P40, arrested by local police and put in jail. He spent three years in jail before

members of the Thai underground, possibly Seri Thai related, freed him and got him

into safety.

He might have been the man who dropped the bomb on the important meeting in Chiang Rai

of the pro Japanese northerners that was supposed to be visited by 'The Leader' of that

period who was based in Payao.

The wreckage of his plane was taken out the jungle about twenty years ago by the

'Tango Squadron'. Its now in the aircraft museum in Chiang Mai.

Limbo

. . .

Reason for editing: adding the picture of the memorial in Chiang Mai.

And a question:

Are the engines of some planes still run at Tuesdays at the Tango Museum?

And, if it still is done on Tuesdays, at what time?

Edited December 12, 2011 by Limbo

[sceadugenga]

There are still reminders of those days in the form of "Japanese Thais" in their late 60s, the offspring of relationships between Japanese soldiers and local women.

I have met a couple around my village who have been pointed out to me, they both seem to be prosperous retired businessmen so their origins don't seem to have been a disadvantage.

[Limbo]

... and, even more interesting the way the Thai local people, or should I

say the local 'Seri Thai', protected their western friends by helping them to escape or

by hiding them for as long as the war lasted, often endangering their lives in doing so.

Many Chiang Rai peope earned honors at that time that were never given to them ...

On March 24 in 1942 the pilot William McGarry was shot down near Chiang Mai with his

P40, arrested by local police and put in jail. He spent three years in jail before

members of the Thai underground, possibly Seri Thai related, freed him and got him

into safety.

Not everybody knows that Chiang Rai airport was the second 'airport' of Thailand after

Bangkok. Both airports were built around 1920. The son of the governor of Chiang Rai

came back from his studies in Paris and talked his father and friends into buying

an airplane. The first airport strip was where now 'the old one' is. The present old

one, 1700 meters long, was built with American aid after the war; now it had become

part of a different pattern of strategies.

The new airport north of town is of more recent date, older than Big C yes, but just

a few years, so not very much.

For strategical reasons the Japanese airforce moved the strip in south west direction

around the Doi Kao Kwai and closer to it. There it was easier to defend it against air

attacks as the mountain offered a convenient position for their anti-aircraft artillery.

The most important and biggest Japanese airports however were Chiang Mai and Lampang,

also the northern base of the Royal Thai Airforce. Most of the 400 Japanese planes

were stationed there. Mae Hong Son, Chiang Rai, Lamphun and Tak were of less importance.

After the big Japanese attack on the last Allied airfield in Burma, at Magwe, March 21

1942 in which a Japanese force of 151 bombers and fighters took part, the Japanese planes

returned to northern Thailand, in the direction of Chiang Mai.

Already three days later a counter attack took place. From Yunnan, 10 Flying Tigers,

Tomahawk P-40s, took off (refuelling at a small RAF base at Namsang, Burma) to Thailand,

six to Chiang Mai and four to Lampang.

In Chiang Mai fifteen Japanese aircraft were destroyed, but the mission to Lampang failed.

Not far from Chiang Mai McGarry jumped and walked three days in the jungle before he got

arrested and flying back from Lampang Newkirk crashed after he attacked an anti-aircraft

artillery position not far from Lamphun on the way home.

Three and a half month later the Flying Tigers, the American Volunteer Group of the Chinese

Airforce ceased to exist. The American Airforce took over officially.

Also their 3rd Squadron, the 'Hells Angels', became part of history. Only their name survived,

but now as that of a motorcycle group ...

Limbo

Picture: AVG pilots in Yunnan with a Curtiss P40 Tomahawk

[Limbo]

Sorry for the missing link to Don's Pearl Harbor meeting:

The American Volunteer Group, also active in Chiang Rai, thus

American pilots flying for the Chinese Nationalist Government

of Tchang Kai-Tjeck (in this special case more precisely for

his wife, who formally was in charge of this airforce unit),

was with other words bombing Japanese military targets before

the Japanese started to bomb similar American military targets

as was the case with the American naval base Pearl Harbor.

It was a 'secret' engagement of the US in the war, before

the official declaration of war was made.

For that one Churchill had to wait untill after Pearl Harbor.

Were there any conspiracists around blaming the British?

Limbo

[changraider]

How did the discussion go Don? The notice was so short unfortunately that I'm sure many of us didn't see the invitation on time. I couldn't have contributed much myself as my knowledge of US and WWII affairs is very limited, but it would have made for an interesting and different afternoon.

[JAG]

Limbo, if you discuss international affairs for long enough someone usually blames us British!

Of course it was jolly handy for Churchill to get the USA in on our side, even though it is said that the only thing they charged in the first war was the interest on the money they lent us!

Any Americans reading this, don't take it personally...I have a lot of time for the USA (and rather fancy the Presidents wife)!

Edited December 14, 2011 by JAG

[thegovernor]

The allied forces carried out more than 400 bombing missions over Bangkok during second world war 2....The governor.

[rmacdon61]

A Canadian was involved in the bombing of the Bridge on the River Kwai . I believe he was shot down during a raid that did damage a bridge upstream of the bridge made famous by the movie.

Had to put a Canadian spin in here :jap:

[Limbo]

A Canadian was involved in the bombing of the Bridge on the River Kwai . I believe he was shot down during a raid that did damage a bridge upstream of the bridge made famous by the movie.

Had to put a Canadian spin in here :jap:

When you mention Canadian soldiers of the Second World War

I feel obligated as a Dutchman to show my respect.

My home town was liberated by Canadians and they played a

major role in the liberation of the rest of the Netherlands.

Many gave their lives. They are and will be remembered.

L.

On the pictures one of the monuments at Hoge Veluwe that will

keep the memory at life.

. . . . . . . . . .

Here the Canadian war cemetery at Holten, where 1355 Canadians rest.

. . . . .. . . . .

Edited December 16, 2011 by Limbo

[Limbo]

.

.

.

.

.

"THEIR NAME LIVETH FOR EVERMORE"

On the Canadian War Cemetery at Bergen op Zoom you will find the graves of 968 Canadian soldiers.

In the periode 1 October to 8 November 1945 alone 6,317 Canadian soldiers lost their lifes in

the Netherlands and Flanders.

In al little building you can find the registers with the names of the soldiers buried at the

Canadian War Cemetery at Bergen:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Edited December 16, 2011 by Limbo

[rmacdon61]

A Canadian was involved in the bombing of the Bridge on the River Kwai . I believe he was shot down during a raid that did damage a bridge upstream of the bridge made famous by the movie.

Had to put a Canadian spin in here :jap:

When you mention Canadian soldiers of the Second World War

I feel obligated as a Dutchman to show my respect.

My home town was liberated by Canadians and they played a

major role in the liberation of the rest of the Netherlands.

Many gave their lives. They are and will be remembered.

L.

On the pictures one of the monuments at Hoge Veluwe that will

keep the memory at life.

. . . . . . . . . .

Here the Canadian war cemetery at Holten, where 1355 Canadians rest.

. . . . .. . . . .

My father was with the 8th Recce in Holland. He was an engineer and dispatch motorcycle rider. He didn't speak much on his experience in Europe but did say he was always sad when ordered to blow up a bridge they had just reapired or replaced to prevent germans from coming up from the rear. He spoke very highly of the Dutch and my father was not a man to praise lightly.

[Limbo]

My father was with the 8th Recce in Holland. He was an engineer and dispatch motorcycle rider. He didn't speak much on his experience in Europe but did say he was always sad when ordered to blow up a bridge they had just reapired or replaced to prevent germans from coming up from the rear. He spoke very highly of the Dutch and my father was not a man to praise lightly.

My respect!

Canadian soldiers were very popular in the Netherlands (and fathered many

children), the popular song "Trees heeft een Canadees' speaks volumes.

Here it is the vocal background of last years Liberty Tour.

This is an annual event where veterans from the liberating troops are invited

and re-enact liberation day with the vehicles of the group 'Keep Them Rolling"

that preserves old WWII military vehicles.

Limbo

PS: It is very well possible that your father rode on a BSA M2.

[Limbo]

My father was with the 8th Recce in Holland. He was an engineer and dispatch motorcycle rider. He didn't speak much on his experience in Europe but did say he was always sad when ordered to blow up a bridge they had just reapired or replaced to prevent germans from coming up from the rear. He spoke very highly of the Dutch and my father was not a man to praise lightly.

My respect!

Canadian soldiers were very popular in the Netherlands (and fathered many

children), the popular song "Trees heeft een Canadees' speaks volumes.

Here it is the vocal background of last years Liberty Tour.

This is an annual event where veterans from the liberating troops are invited

and re-enact liberation day with the vehicles of the group 'Keep Them Rolling"

that preserves old WWII military vehicles.

Limbo

PS: It is very well possible that your father rode on a BSA M2.

Editing: the 8th Ecce used mostly the BSA M2. I saw one in de collection

of Khun Udomporn in Mae Sai, but the pictures one and three above could

also have been made in Mae Sot, where another collecter of old motorbikes

lives. Many old bikes of the British Army are still on sale in the border

area's with Burma.