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Thai Ex-PM Abhisit Grilled Over Deadly Rally Crackdown


webfact

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In Syria they had 90 killed during one day of clashes. In Thailand we had this over 3 months. To call the later 'indiscriminate killings' is a riot (pun intended).

Some balance to the propaganda-postings would be needed, but then again, then they wouldn't be...

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then i guess the fact that the army admits to shooting 117000 live rounds is irrelevant?

Do you have a source for that admission ?

I recall that the bullets had disappeared, according to the military stock-records, but that's a very-different thing from their having been actually used as intended, and in this particular engagement, rather than sold-off to whomever.

Selling weapons & ammo would be a 'nice little earner'. <_<

search on TV

So that's a 'No' then. <_<

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It just struck me what the heck are the police doing interrogating them. When there was a need for action they ran.

Sorry I forgot Thaksins relative is the Police Chief. Silly me.:jap:

Did you have a similar thought when these very same police were interrogating the Red Shirts?

Of course not the red shirts were being interrogated for their crimes. Were you in another country when it happened you seem to be lacking in knowledge of what went down.

The red shirts illegally seized downtown Bangkok and the army moved them out the only way the red shirts would allow.

If you would have been here you would know that the government bargained in good faith. They agreed to terms and the red shirts immediately changed the terms. They were offered a early election the red shirts chose to delay it for another 6 months.

Abhist is being interrogated for doing the legal job he was hired to do.

Doe's that make sense to you? If it does don't bother to reply it would be to ludicrous to deserve a answer.:jap:

The new Government want complete control of Thailand to drain ever last spare baht into their own pockets

The only things that stands in their way is a few opposition MPS

If they can get rid of these people there is nothing left to stop them sending Thailand back into the dark ages

and every one will become rich

Yes it is bad that some red shirts believed they where imortal, and found out they where not

But the amount who dies is so small compared to other eastern countries with their protests the Red shirs got off very lucky

The coup was terrible thing for Thailand the Red shirts say

But they never mention not one person died

But the protest was the right thing to do

and again it was the Red shirts who made it clear they wanted to die for democracy

Since when does seizing power by staging a coup come under democracy???

The coup was bloodless because they were the one controlling the army - hardly likely to issue orders to shoot themselves.

Who fired the first shots when the army clashed with the red shirts - I don't think anybody really knows but if you use armed forces to break up a protest then something will hit the fan.

It's funny how the government allowed PAD to cripple the airports, I would have thought this would merit some heavy handed ass kicking - one law for one etc.

quote "Yes it is bad that some red shirts believed they where imortal, and found out they where not" - it is 'were' not 'where', don't rely on a spellchecker.

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then i guess the fact that the army admits to shooting 117000 live rounds is irrelevant?

Do you have a source for that admission ?

I recall that the bullets had disappeared, according to the military stock-records, but that's a very-different thing from their having been actually used as intended, and in this particular engagement, rather than sold-off to whomever.

Selling weapons & ammo would be a 'nice little earner'. <_<

No he dosent probably heard it on a red shirt radio station of read it in the red shirt propaganda.

Some people are just blinded by the color red. It affects there logic.

Lets see 117,000 rounds of ammunition fired and only about 84 killed with them and I believe about 1,900 injured.

Pretty bad shooting if you ask me.

Maybe the army should invest in more rounds for the target range. Or people should not post silly things.B)

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If people recall the situation correctly, Abhisit refrained from using force as long as he could. He refrained for so long that the military was on the verge of taking matters into their own hands.

The soldiers were very passive and were the one's being attacked by the red shirts, they just stood there taking a beating, getting homemade bombs thrown at them and getting injured.

The reds threw the first punch and kept throwing and kept throwing, while the soldiers just stood still... until eventually there was no way the military was going to allow their men to get harmed any longer.

The men in black are indeed a real group, not made up and not a figment of imagination. Where i use to work by Pratunam there is a restaurant i use to go to for lunch every other day. A couple of times there were indeed a few people sitting there with black shirts and combat fatigues wearing berets, before the rallies they were never there before.

The reds are the scum of thailand all things bad in Thailand are a result of these type of people....sorry to say though that the majority are poverty stricken with no education, easily manipulated and willing to do almost anything to get ahead - except put down the whiskey and pride...because when you are poor that's all you have left, your pride...and that's what all this is about, pride no matter if its red or yellow.

I'd like to take issue with your first sentence. The above is your recollection of events I take it, your opinion. You're entitled to it by all means but please do not project your opinion on what other people should think.

It is an opinion based on sound observations of what happened then.

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So when there were riots in London it was wrong for David Cameron to suggest they might have to call a state of emergency and let the army restore law and order to the streets of London.

The difference is that they would not shoot people indiscriminately if at al!

Indiscriminately? 91 deaths was the total over 3 months. The first group of killings, the perpetrators were not the army, but men in black..... When the protest was fully moved downtown, incidents of grenades being thrown by reds/ black continued almost daily. THOSE acts were certainly indiscriminate. When finally "enough was enough", with the protest becoming moe violent and dangerous, a live fire zone was set up. If an offender enters that zone, I would consider that they had been warned of the consequences and were there by choice (including the shot reporter). Therefore, hardly indiscriminately carried out.

As you say only 91 dead and not all of them civilians.

This is the same poster that claimed the army shot 117,000 rounds of ammunition. To do as little damage as was done with that kind of fire power the shooters would have to of been aiming some where else.

Would there be as many red shirts if they had to pas a grade three literacy test? Also a grade three Math test with out a calculator?:jap:

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hear lots of bangs and explosions around Ram, unusual sounds, in between gun shots. Doesn't sound like fire crackers. Strange, but I could be wrong, hopefully unsure.gif

4 - 5 days ago I saw probably a sniper on the road, obviously waiting for someone on New Rama 9. A very long riffle, rapped in a bag with about 40 - 50 cm showing into the air.

This guy had a very fast reflex when I looked at him when a passed, obviously very nervous.

In meanwhile silent here again. All lasted for about 20 - 30 minutes.

Edited by elcent
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If people recall the situation correctly, Abhisit refrained from using force as long as he could. He refrained for so long that the military was on the verge of taking matters into their own hands.

The soldiers were very passive and were the one's being attacked by the red shirts, they just stood there taking a beating, getting homemade bombs thrown at them and getting injured.

The reds threw the first punch and kept throwing and kept throwing, while the soldiers just stood still... until eventually there was no way the military was going to allow their men to get harmed any longer.

The men in black are indeed a real group, not made up and not a figment of imagination. Where i use to work by Pratunam there is a restaurant i use to go to for lunch every other day. A couple of times there were indeed a few people sitting there with black shirts and combat fatigues wearing berets, before the rallies they were never there before.

The reds are the scum of thailand all things bad in Thailand are a result of these type of people....sorry to say though that the majority are poverty stricken with no education, easily manipulated and willing to do almost anything to get ahead - except put down the whiskey and pride...because when you are poor that's all you have left, your pride...and that's what all this is about, pride no matter if its red or yellow.

I'd like to take issue with your first sentence. The above is your recollection of events I take it, your opinion. You're entitled to it by all means but please do not project your opinion on what other people should think.

It is an opinion based on sound observations of what happened then.

Sound to you maybe.

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Abhisit is a Hero. His only mistake was not authorizing the use of deadly force sooner. The Army should have been able to neutralize the terrorist red shirts after they attacked and murdered the general with hand grenades.

Here here! I'm amazed at the restraint that the Thai government and military exercised while the red terrorists ran amock holding the capitol hostage for months. Of course the police disappeared, as they always do any time there's a crisis or emergency. In any other country armed insurgents would be put down IMMEDIATELY. Here in Thailand they were given countless warnings to disband. As a Bangkok resident I only wish the military had acted sooner.

Keep your chin up Khun Abhisit- it's no surprise that a week after convicted fugitive appointed his brother in law as head of police that such a circus would take place. Politics as usual. :bah:

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So when there were riots in London it was wrong for David Cameron to suggest they might have to call a state of emergency and let the army restore law and order to the streets of London.

The difference is that they would not shoot people indiscriminately if at al!

But shooting armed insurgents in self defense is ok, right? :whistling:

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Maybe they didn't use lethal force to evict the yellow shirts out of the airport because they were peacefully protesting without machine guns and grenade launchers.

And they were not invading hospitals and using there children as shields.

They initially took the airport by force.

The protesters turned up later, once the area was secured by the paramilitary element of the yellow shirts who were armed.

I know, because I was at the airport when the takeover began.

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Maybe they didn't use lethal force to evict the yellow shirts out of the airport because they were peacefully protesting without machine guns and grenade launchers.

And they were not invading hospitals and using there children as shields.

Correct! they were not, and they were not equipped with machine guns and grenade launchers, you people crack me up. Even when the international community find the army culpable, you cling on to your fantasies. The army has a long and shameful history of slaughtering it's own people, especially those with the guts to stand up for freedom and democracy.

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If you recall live fire was used early on by the Army, they lied about it, saying only blanks were used, then it was pointed out that M16's cannot cycle blank ammunition without muzzle suppressors and their story fell apart.

The gas operating system will not operate with blanks without a Blank Firing Attachment. But manual cocking is always available, which leaves the option of switching to live rounds when you are attacked.

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.The new Government want complete control of Thailand to drain ever last spare baht into their own pockets

The only things that stands in their way is a few opposition MPS

If they can get rid of these people there is nothing left to stop them sending Thailand back into the dark ages

and every one will become rich

Yes it is bad that some red shirts believed they where imortal, and found out they where not

But the amount who dies is so small compared to other eastern countries with their protests the Red shirs got off very lucky

The coup was terrible thing for Thailand the Red shirts say

But they never mention not one person died

But the protest was the right thing to do

and again it was the Red shirts who made it clear they wanted to die for democracy

Since when does seizing power by staging a coup come under democracy???

The coup was bloodless because they were the one controlling the army - hardly likely to issue orders to shoot themselves.

Who fired the first shots when the army clashed with the red shirts - I don't think anybody really knows but if you use armed forces to break up a protest then something will hit the fan.

It's funny how the government allowed PAD to cripple the airports, I would have thought this would merit some heavy handed ass kicking - one law for one etc.

quote "Yes it is bad that some red shirts believed they where imortal, and found out they where not" - it is 'were' not 'where', don't rely on a spellchecker.

How does something hit the fan if protesters are not armed? Why are peaceful protesters armed with military rifles and M-79 grenade launchers?

Why was the military commander killed in the first few minutes of the clash - just a lucky shot that found the end of the laser beam, or a deliberate ambush?

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Maybe they didn't use lethal force to evict the yellow shirts out of the airport because they were peacefully protesting without machine guns and grenade launchers.

And they were not invading hospitals and using there children as shields.

Correct! they were not, and they were not equipped with machine guns and grenade launchers, you people crack me up. Even when the international community find the army culpable, you cling on to your fantasies. The army has a long and shameful history of slaughtering it's own people, especially those with the guts to stand up for freedom and democracy.

Are you referreing to the red faction not being equipped with weapons? if so, please explain:

How the military commander was killed?

How the other military personnel were killed and wounded?

Why red shirt members have confessed to the use of such weapons, as well as RPGs and bombs

Why a bomb exploded in a red members flat, killing 4, and bomb making materials were found?

The role of one Seh Daeng in the "peaceful protest"?

Your obvious lack of knowledge?

Edited by OzMick
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So when there were riots in London it was wrong for David Cameron to suggest they might have to call a state of emergency and let the army restore law and order to the streets of London.

The difference is that they would not shoot people indiscriminately if at al!

Indiscriminately? 91 deaths was the total over 3 months. The first group of killings, the perpetrators were not the army, but men in black..... When the protest was fully moved downtown, incidents of grenades being thrown by reds/ black continued almost daily. THOSE acts were certainly indiscriminate. When finally "enough was enough", with the protest becoming moe violent and dangerous, a live fire zone was set up. If an offender enters that zone, I would consider that they had been warned of the consequences and were there by choice (including the shot reporter). Therefore, hardly indiscriminately carried out.

As you say only 91 dead and not all of them civilians.

This is the same poster that claimed the army shot 117,000 rounds of ammunition. To do as little damage as was done with that kind of fire power the shooters would have to of been aiming some where else.

Would there be as many red shirts if they had to pas a grade three literacy test? Also a grade three Math test with out a calculator?:jap:

Sir,

Firstly, I must object to your statement decrying the educational qualifications of the red shirt supporters. How do you expect these people to have any chance of a decent education, when they, and their families before them,(for many generations past), have been deliberately denied access to a decent educational system ?

The elite that controls this country, (no matter which party is elected to govern), is interested solely in maintaining their power, at the expense (in every sense of the word), of the masses.

Secondly, as you seem only too willing to condemn the lack of literacy qualifications of red shirt supporters, may I make the following observations ?

In your post (#36 in this topic), dosen't is not actually a word in the English language, I think that perhaps you mean doesn't, (a combination of the words does and not).

In the same post (#36), your use of the word there, is a word used to describe a place, the correct term is their (belonging to)

In your post (#38), if you insist on attempting to deride other people's educational abilities, by asking if red shirts numbers would not be so numerous, if they had to "pas a grade three literacy test", may I advise that it is usually wise to be able to spell the word "pass" when doing so?

In the same post (#38), if you check a dictionary, I think that you may find that "without" is one word, not two, when used in the context in your posting, 'with out a calculator".

Finally, it may be a good idea, to follow your own advice, when commenting on other posters remarks, as you do in your post # 36, "Or people should not post silly things"

I understand that English is not necessarily the primary language of many posters on this forum, and like many others who post here, am quite willing to accept mistakes, in spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc, that others may make when posting. It is only fair to do so, particularly when taking into account the variations in the English language, even in countries where English is the primary language. However for someone to attempt to condemn others perceived lack of education, particularly when the people he is condemning are, in the main, extremely poor, is despicable, especially when the accuser displays his own educational limits when doing so.

Thank you.

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As you say only 91 dead and not all of them civilians.

This is the same poster that claimed the army shot 117,000 rounds of ammunition. To do as little damage as was done with that kind of fire power the shooters would have to of been aiming some where else.

Would there be as many red shirts if they had to pas a grade three literacy test? Also a grade three Math test with out a calculator?:jap:

Sir,

Firstly, I must object to your statement decrying the educational qualifications of the red shirt supporters. How do you expect these people to have any chance of a decent education, when they, and their families before them,(for many generations past), have been deliberately denied access to a decent educational system ?

The elite that controls this country, (no matter which party is elected to govern), is interested solely in maintaining their power, at the expense (in every sense of the word), of the masses.

Secondly, as you seem only too willing to condemn the lack of literacy qualifications of red shirt supporters, may I make the following observations ?

In your post (#36 in this topic), dosen't is not actually a word in the English language, I think that perhaps you mean doesn't, (a combination of the words does and not).

In the same post (#36), your use of the word there, is a word used to describe a place, the correct term is their (belonging to)

In your post (#38), if you insist on attempting to deride other people's educational abilities, by asking if red shirts numbers would not be so numerous, if they had to "pas a grade three literacy test", may I advise that it is usually wise to be able to spell the word "pass" when doing so?

In the same post (#38), if you check a dictionary, I think that you may find that "without" is one word, not two, when used in the context in your posting, 'with out a calculator".

Finally, it may be a good idea, to follow your own advice, when commenting on other posters remarks, as you do in your post # 36, "Or people should not post silly things"

I understand that English is not necessarily the primary language of many posters on this forum, and like many others who post here, am quite willing to accept mistakes, in spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc, that others may make when posting. It is only fair to do so, particularly when taking into account the variations in the English language, even in countries where English is the primary language. However for someone to attempt to condemn others perceived lack of education, particularly when the people he is condemning are, in the main, extremely poor, is despicable, especially when the accuser displays his own educational limits when doing so.

Thank you.

I'm afraid that using a few typographical errors, especially in the wee small hours, to judge somebody's educational standard is a not a valid argument, and borders on nit-picking.

More so when you agree that his comment is not inaccurate.

As for despicable, you might consider that the only change, likely to improve education standards of the poor, that I can recall was the subsidising of school books and clothing; a policy which has been drained of funds by the party that these same poor and uneducated people recently installed to government. That was truly despicable, as was the re-introduction of the B30 medical fees.

Free treatment and school subsidies were both sound policies aimed at benefitting the poorest in this country, but carried the stigma of being introduced by the Democrats. It is in the interest of the current government that the poor remain uneducated, lest they tell the difference between policies which may actually help them and those which offer handouts from the nation's coffers, reducing the funds available for actual national advancement.

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in spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc, that others may make when posting.

*other's ..... You're missing an apostrophe of possession there my friend.

=========================================================

Whilst I do not agree wholeheartedly with this website's viewpoints (a bit too conspiracy theorist for my liking) some very interesting points are raised in the below document

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/mainstream-propagandists-tale-of.html

Khun Abhisit was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand. Such a shame his premiership occurred during the GFC, otherwise many things could've occurred differently. Additionally as most of you should know, a lot of policies in politics take quite a few years to filter through to the people; many of his policies would have helped the rural population of Thailand........ had they been given the opportunity to.

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As you say only 91 dead and not all of them civilians.

This is the same poster that claimed the army shot 117,000 rounds of ammunition. To do as little damage as was done with that kind of fire power the shooters would have to of been aiming some where else.

Would there be as many red shirts if they had to pas a grade three literacy test? Also a grade three Math test with out a calculator?:jap:

Sir,

Firstly, I must object to your statement decrying the educational qualifications of the red shirt supporters. How do you expect these people to have any chance of a decent education, when they, and their families before them,(for many generations past), have been deliberately denied access to a decent educational system ?

The elite that controls this country, (no matter which party is elected to govern), is interested solely in maintaining their power, at the expense (in every sense of the word), of the masses.

Secondly, as you seem only too willing to condemn the lack of literacy qualifications of red shirt supporters, may I make the following observations ?

In your post (#36 in this topic), dosen't is not actually a word in the English language, I think that perhaps you mean doesn't, (a combination of the words does and not).

In the same post (#36), your use of the word there, is a word used to describe a place, the correct term is their (belonging to)

In your post (#38), if you insist on attempting to deride other people's educational abilities, by asking if red shirts numbers would not be so numerous, if they had to "pas a grade three literacy test", may I advise that it is usually wise to be able to spell the word "pass" when doing so?

In the same post (#38), if you check a dictionary, I think that you may find that "without" is one word, not two, when used in the context in your posting, 'with out a calculator".

Finally, it may be a good idea, to follow your own advice, when commenting on other posters remarks, as you do in your post # 36, "Or people should not post silly things"

I understand that English is not necessarily the primary language of many posters on this forum, and like many others who post here, am quite willing to accept mistakes, in spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc, that others may make when posting. It is only fair to do so, particularly when taking into account the variations in the English language, even in countries where English is the primary language. However for someone to attempt to condemn others perceived lack of education, particularly when the people he is condemning are, in the main, extremely poor, is despicable, especially when the accuser displays his own educational limits when doing so.

Thank you.

I'm afraid that using a few typographical errors, especially in the wee small hours, to judge somebody's educational standard is a not a valid argument, and borders on nit-picking.

More so when you agree that his comment is not inaccurate.

As for despicable, you might consider that the only change, likely to improve education standards of the poor, that I can recall was the subsidising of school books and clothing; a policy which has been drained of funds by the party that these same poor and uneducated people recently installed to government. That was truly despicable, as was the re-introduction of the B30 medical fees.

Free treatment and school subsidies were both sound policies aimed at benefitting the poorest in this country, but carried the stigma of being introduced by the Democrats. It is in the interest of the current government that the poor remain uneducated, lest they tell the difference between policies which may actually help them and those which offer handouts from the nation's coffers, reducing the funds available for actual national advancement.

I believe if MrMuddle will read the post again he will notice I said literacy not the ability to spell. I also added in mathematics with out a calculator.

I mean no disrespect to the uneducated. I point out the lack of education because with out it most people do not learn to think and reason things out.

Hence they are willing to believe any thing that makes them feel good even if it never comes to pass.

For instance take 500 baht to vote for a person who will not do any thing for them.

They will not vote for a person who will help them improve their standard of living because he wont pay them to.

I mak no apologes for my speling mistakes never could spel and probabley never will be able to. Thank God for spel check when I member to use it. But I am literate I can read and write.

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Khun Abhisit was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand. Such a shame his premiership occurred during the GFC, otherwise many things could've occurred differently. Additionally as most of you should know, a lot of policies in politics take quite a few years to filter through to the people; many of his policies would have helped the rural population of Thailand........ had they been given the opportunity to.

'His' policies just mirrored those of the previous Thaksin and Thaksin proxy governments.

Took a while for the Democrats to actually wake up and see that populist policy was the only way forward to compete in an election.

The damage was done in the 90's for the Dems though, people still remember the corruption in their ranks and their 'Bitter Medicine' policies, and a lot of the same players are still around (Suthep, Chuan etc) thus rendering them pretty much unelectable. It's also a major reason why Thaksin's populist policies were such a welcome change, especially in the North and NE, where people endured hard times under the corrupt Dems in the 90's.

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Maybe they didn't use lethal force to evict the yellow shirts out of the airport because they were peacefully protesting without machine guns and grenade launchers.

And they were not invading hospitals and using there children as shields.

They initially took the airport by force.

The protesters turned up later, once the area was secured by the paramilitary element of the yellow shirts who were armed.

I know, because I was at the airport when the takeover began.

Funny that I don't recall reading about any others that were there at the time saying that it was taken over with grenade launchers and machine guns.

.

Edited by Buchholz
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Funny that I don't recall reading about any others that were there at the time saying that it was taken over with grenade launchers and machine guns.

Who mentioned grenade launchers and machine guns?

I witnessed them putting up the barricades on the roads and stopping traffic and they were armed with weapons and dressed as paramilitaries.

After they had secured the roads leading into the airport the protesters arrived, some time later.

Initially I mistook them for bonafide security officials when I drove through their roadblock on the main road.

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Funny that I don't recall reading about any others that were there at the time saying that it was taken over with grenade launchers and machine guns.

Who mentioned grenade launchers and machine guns?

The post you quoted and didn't stipulate there was any difference .

Thank for now clarifying there were major differences between how the yellow shirts and red shirts operated.

.

Edited by Buchholz
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Hundreds of PAD supporters, some wearing masks and armed with metal rods and baseball bats, stormed past police and into the airport overnight, taking control of the passenger lounges and the control tower.





Demonstrators — some masked and armed with metal rods — had swarmed the international airport overnight, breaking through police lines and spilling into the passenger terminal.Group Capt. Chokchai Saranon, a control tower official, said 50 masked protesters armed with metal rods demanded to enter the control tower Wednesday, seeking the prime minister's flight schedule. Three were allowed in, but with flights canceled, there were no controllers to provide the information and the protesters eventually left. In any case, Somchai was to land later Wednesday at a separate, military airport.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27902801#.TuQfkGP3H1Q

Etc, etc, etc.

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Hundreds of PAD supporters, some wearing masks and armed with metal rods and baseball bats, stormed past police and into the airport overnight, taking control of the passenger lounges and the control tower.



Demonstrators — some masked and armed with metal rods — had swarmed the international airport overnight, breaking through police lines and spilling into the passenger terminal.Group Capt. Chokchai Saranon, a control tower official, said 50 masked protesters armed with metal rods demanded to enter the control tower Wednesday, seeking the prime minister's flight schedule. Three were allowed in, but with flights canceled, there were no controllers to provide the information and the protesters eventually left. In any case, Somchai was to land later Wednesday at a separate, military airport.

http://www.msnbc.msn...01#.TuQfkGP3H1Q

Etc, etc, etc.

Comparing Yellow shirts with metal rods to Red shirts with AK47's and grenades... :blink:

Same Same But Different???

Edited by BigBikeBKK
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