Married Whilst On A Visit Visa

[ThaiVisaExpress]

One of my clients who was on a standard visit visa called me & advised me he had a great time & he also got married whilst in the UK.I said " how did you manage that " I just went to the registry office in Luton & they looked at my partners visa marked visit & said that's fine.He was not aware you could not enter into a marriage whilst on a standard visit visa.

[7by7]

With respect, Paul, since the abolition of Certificates of Approval, is it not the case that visitors with a General Visit Visa can now marry in the UK; but have to give notice at a designated registry office? (Can you get married or register a civil partnership in the UK?)

What they cannot do is then apply for settlement in the UK; they have to return home to do that.

[CoconutMayhem]

So someone cannot just get married?

What if they get married and have no intention of returning to their native land? Not all marriages are "arranged", sometimes people meet and get hitched on the fly.

[RAZZELL]

So someone cannot just get married?

What if they get married and have no intention of returning to their native land? Not all marriages are "arranged", sometimes people meet and get hitched on the fly.

Yes, as 7by7 said they can get married at one of the 76 "designated" register offices...but they have to go back home and apply for settlement. Although if they come to the UK with intention of getting married they should really apply for a fiancee or marriage visa.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Marriagesandcivilpartnerships/DG_175717

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/visiting/marriage-cp/

RAZZ

Edited December 11, 2011 by RAZZELL

[Gonsalviz]

So someone cannot just get married?

What if they get married and have no intention of returning to their native land? Not all marriages are "arranged", sometimes people meet and get hitched on the fly.

Yes, as 7by7 said they can get married at one of the 76 "designated" register offices...but they have to go back home and apply for settlement. Although if they come to the UK with intention of getting married they should really apply for a fiancee or marriage visa.

http://www.direct.go...ships/DG_175717

http://www.ukba.home...ng/marriage-cp/

RAZZ

Isn't it 77 now?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

With respect, Paul, since the abolition of Certificates of Approval, is it not the case that visitors with a General Visit Visa can now marry in the UK; but have to give notice at a designated registry office? (Can you get married or register a civil partnership in the UK?)

What they cannot do is then apply for settlement in the UK; they have to return home to do that.

.

No you need to apply for a special visitors visa using Vaf 1F not VAF 1A ( on-line application) you have to demonstrate you are free to marry. You should apply for a specific visa to do this not a standard tourist visa as per your link its a visitors visa for marriage

Para 56D

Requirements for leave to enter as a visitor for marriage or to enter a civil partnership

The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a visitor for marriage or civil partnership are that he:

(i) meets the requirements set out in paragraph 41 (i) - (ix) and (xi) - (xii); and

(ii) can show that he intends to give notice of marriage or civil partnership, or marry or form a civil partnership, in the United Kingdom within the period for which entry is sought; and

(iii) can produce satisfactory evidence, if required to do so, of the arrangements for giving notice of marriage or civil partnership, or for his wedding or civil partnership to take place, in the United Kingdom during the period for which entry is sought; and

(iv) holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity

Edited December 12, 2011 by 7by7
Machine code errors removed.

[Eff1n2ret]

That's interesting:-

TVE is right because Para 56D-F are still there in the published version of the Rules, and the Entry Clearance Guidance still says this:-

VAT6.4 Do people who are already in the UK and are getting married or entering a civil partnership require an entry clearance?

Non-EEA / Swiss nationals who are in the UK, and intend to marry or enter a civil partnership, require a Certificate of Approval which is obtained from the Home Office. The Home Office will only issue these to people with more than six months valid leave to enter and who have three months or more leave remaining. This means that persons who hold a visit visa, illegal entrants, over-stayers and failed asylum seekers will not usually be able to get married or undertake a civil partnership in the United Kingdom.

Applicants who apply for a fiance(e) / proposed civil partner settlement visa in error, and do not in fact intend to settle in the UK after the ceremony, should be treated as visitors for marriage or civil partnership.

As there is no doubt that the requirement for Certificate of Approval was abolished in May this year, one has to conclude that the EC Guidance is out of date, and this calls into question why anyone needs to apply for a visa under Para56D.

I would have said that 7by7 is right as well - just a typical bit of UKBA confusion.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Eff1n2ret

[ThaiVisaExpress]

That's interesting:-

TVE is right because Para 56D-F are still there in the published version of the Rules, and the Entry Clearance Guidance still says this:-

VAT6.4 Do people who are already in the UK and are getting married or entering a civil partnership require an entry clearance?

Non-EEA / Swiss nationals who are in the UK, and intend to marry or enter a civil partnership, require a Certificate of Approval which is obtained from the Home Office. The Home Office will only issue these to people with more than six months valid leave to enter and who have three months or more leave remaining. This means that persons who hold a visit visa, illegal entrants, over-stayers and failed asylum seekers will not usually be able to get married or undertake a civil partnership in the United Kingdom.

Applicants who apply for a fiance(e) / proposed civil partner settlement visa in error, and do not in fact intend to settle in the UK after the ceremony, should be treated as visitors for marriage or civil partnership.

As there is no doubt that the requirement for Certificate of Approval was abolished in May this year, one has to conclude that the EC Guidance is out of date, and this calls into question why anyone needs to apply for a visa under Para56D.

I would have said that 7by7 is right as well - just a typical bit of UKBA confusion.

I have asked the UK/BA to clarify this today & I am awaiting a reply .

[the scouser]

It depends at which point the intention to marry is formed.

If the intention exists at the time of the visa application, then a 'marriage visit' visa should be sought, but if only a 'general' visit is intended, and once in the UK, the idea of marriage crops up, then no further formality is required (other than the normal bits and pieces).

Simples!

[vinny]

To be consistent, the UKBA should have scrapped the marriage visit visa and 41(x) when they scrapped the COA.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

It depends at which point the intention to marry is formed.

If the intention exists at the time of the visa application, then a 'marriage visit' visa should be sought, but if only a 'general' visit is intended, and once in the UK, the idea of marriage crops up, then no further formality is required (other than the normal bits and pieces).

Simples!

I have challenged the UK/BA & advised them we have little need for a special visitors visa any more here is the reply I received. The argument they will obviously put across is that if the intention is to travel to the UK on a holiday with the intention of marrying then its a special visit, however registrars are freely marrying people on standard tourist visas.

Thankyou for your e-mail of 13 December 2011

Wecan confirm that where an applicant is applying to travel to the UK for thepurpose of getting married, but with no intention of settling there after themarriage, they should apply for a marriage visitor visa.

Wehope that you find this information useful.

Yourssincerely,

[ThaiVisaExpress]

It depends at which point the intention to marry is formed.

If the intention exists at the time of the visa application, then a 'marriage visit' visa should be sought, but if only a 'general' visit is intended, and once in the UK, the idea of marriage crops up, then no further formality is required (other than the normal bits and pieces).

Simples!

I have challenged the UK/BA & advised them we have little need for a special visitors visa any more here is the reply I received. The argument they will obviously put across is that if the intention is to travel to the UK on a holiday with the intention of marrying then its a special visit, however registrars are freely marrying people on standard tourist visas.

Thankyou for your e-mail of 13 December 2011

Wecan confirm that where an applicant is applying to travel to the UK for thepurpose of getting married, but with no intention of settling there after themarriage, they should apply for a marriage visitor visa.

Wehope that you find this information useful.

Yourssincerely,

Further to that email we received this !

Thank you for your email dated 20December. We are unable to comment on the practice of individual registrars inthe UK, however I can confirm that the Immigration rules in relation to ageneral visit visa state that:

41. The requirements to be met by a personseeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a general visitor are that he:

(x) does not, during his visit, intend tomarry or form a civil partnership, or to give notice of marriage or civilpartnership;

Therefore anyone who is intending totravel to the UK for the purpose of getting married on a general visit visa andnot a marriage visit visa will be in breach of the terms of their visa.

[7by7]

To be honest, it's still not clear.

Para 41(x) says "does not, during his visit, intend to marry or form a civil partnership, or to give notice of marriage or civil partnership;"

The UKBA reply you received says "Therefore anyone who is intending to travel to the UK for the purpose of getting married on a general visit visa and not a marriage visit visa will be in breach of the terms of their visa."

(My emphasis)

So is it the intention that breaches the terms of a general visit visa or the act itself? If someone enters the UK with a general visit visa without any intention of marrying; but then decides they do want marry whilst there, can they legally do so and if they do, have they breached the terms of their visa?

This reminds me of the confusion over whether a couple who legally married in Thailand can marry again in the UK; remember that?

Some registrars and senior registrars said they can; others said they can't!

Enquiries to the appropriate authorities just got the reply that a marriage which was legal in Thailand was also legal in the UK; great help!

[NanLaew]

It would appear that the couples that decide to get married on a whim can get legally married regardless of the original INTENT when one partner applied for a visit visa. That's one for the old romantics!

However, it looks like there's a loophole that a few hundred couples can quickly jump through, saving the hassle (extra time and cost?) of getting the marriage visa beforehand. I can see how that will be abused.

I mean who is going to argue ones INTENT changed after they arrived? The INTENT police? Maybe the fact that they got married on a visit visa will be frowned upon when they apply for subsequent visas?

Having said that, it is just a marriage after all and doesn't allow the non-UK partner to stay longer or change/claim resident status without first returning to their homeland and submitting the appropriate visa application.

^ Maybe the 'confused' UK Registrars have been reading all about the similarly 'confused' Amphurs in Thailand!

Edited December 22, 2011 by NanLaew

[Basil B]

It would appear that the couples that decide to get married on a whim can get legally married regardless of the original INTENT when one partner applied for a visit visa. That's one for the old romantics!

However, it looks like there's a loophole that a few hundred couples can quickly jump through, saving the hassle (extra time and cost?) of getting the marriage visa beforehand. I can see how that will be abused.

I mean who is going to argue ones INTENT changed after they arrived? The INTENT police? Maybe the fact that they got married on a visit visa will be frowned upon when they apply for subsequent visas?

Having said that, it is just a marriage after all and doesn't allow the non-UK partner to stay longer or change/claim resident status without first returning to their homeland and submitting the appropriate visa application.

^ Maybe the 'confused' UK Registrars have been reading all about the similarly 'confused' Amphurs in Thailand!

I do not think it is the registrars who are confused...

Common sense say's if you have booked a registery office compleate form VAF1(F) if not use form VAF1(A)

as VAF1(F) asks:

8.4 What arrangements have been made for either notification of the marriage or civil partnership or for the marriage or civil partnership ceremony?

8.8 Where will you get married or enter into a civil partnership?

8.9 When will you get married or enter into a civil partnership?

My assumption is if you answer "NONE" to Q8.4 then you have the wrong form.

[7by7]

However, it looks like there's a loophole that a few hundred couples can quickly jump through, saving the hassle (extra time and cost?) of getting the marriage visa beforehand.

As Basil says, no extra hassle, no extra fee for a marriage visit visa, just a different form.

BTW, Basil, to give notice of the marriage and to book the ceremony both partners have to attend, so it cannot be done until the foreign partner is in the UK.

An off topic nonsense post has been removed.

[the scouser]

So is it the intention that breaches the terms of a general visit visa or the act itself? If someone enters the UK with a general visit visa without any intention of marrying; but then decides they do want marry whilst there, can they legally do so and if they do, have they breached the terms of their visa?...

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier response.

Intention is the key. Once someone enters the UK, intentions, and therefore concommitant actions, might change, but that doesn't per se place them in breach of their immigration conditions. Anyone in the UK who is able to marry, can marry. So, TVE's punter did nowt wrong. She applied for a 'general' visit visa, entered the UK, post-entry decided to get married and did so: nowt wrong with that.

[spongeman]

Looks like nowt has changed since I got hitched in a Glasgow registry office in 2000 then, she came over on a tourist visa and then went back.

However we did have to give a few months notice, it aint Las Vegas !!!!!!!!