Married Men

[BookMan]

My personal opinion is that a lot of the farang men do assume that every woman in Thailand are fair game , as u supposed in your OP. A lot of guys in Thailand see the rules as being different than when they are in their home countries. Many (married or not) see asian women as being 'easy'. Asian women are exotic for a lot of farangs. I am guessing you are of asian appearance?

A married guy, out here on business for a week, a month, a year, a few years, might feel that it doesn't count if u have an affair while OS. Also, at certain business levels (pay/job status) there is a power thing. You feel more confident, more potent perhaps? In some industries affairs are seen as a norm amongst married guys. And being married, you also have that back up if the advances are rejected. (On a side note here: I found that when I was married and in management women were far more more interested in me than when I was single).

[GrahamF]

I believe your question might be best answered by the old joke - Women need a reason to have sex, men just need a place.

In the case of a certain Austrian man, he dug out his "place" under his house then kidnapped his daughter and fathered several children with her. You no doubt remember the details as well as I do.

I only bring this up as an example of the ability of 'some' men to go to great extremes to satisfy what is, no doubt, a deep seated and unstoppable urge to have sex.

Humans may have advanced somewhat since we dropped down out of the trees, but we still seem to have a long way to go before we can be called civilised.

Women do seem to be helping with that civilisation process, but when the world once again descends into widespread war I wonder if the terror that the German women endured as the Russians advanced across their land will be repeated.

I have my doubts that we have come very far on the road to real civilisation.

Sorry to go off topic here, I feel that the highlighted portion of the above comment needs a response from a different perspective.

My mother was a survivor of Auschwitz and a number of forced labor camps and her outlook on the average Russian soldier was far from terror. She often remarked that the Russian military treated the liberated prisoners with kindness and great care, taking pains to make sure that they were fed and housed as well as possible. She said that when the Russians first arrived at her camp that many of these battle hardened veterans fell to their knees and wept in horror at the condition of the prisoners and the camp itself. They then proceeded to tear down the fences and guard towers with their bare hands in an attempt to vent their frustration. One other thing that I did not know was that most of the Russian military traveled with little or no supplies and that when they took a town, they were given a certain amount of time to loot that town with pretty much no holds barred, if the soldiery went past that allotted time, they were hung by their own officers. No doubt some horrific events occurred at that time, although my mother did say that the majority of the soldiery generally stuck to taking food and at times some valuables.

It is also important to note that my mother said that there were quite a number of German civilians that tried to treat the prisoners as well as they could without incurring the wrath of the SS guards. The average German soldier was also not above treating the prisoners with kindness. In fact, one time when my mother and a number of other prisoners were ordered to dig foxholes by their SS guards, they were unable to do so because of the combination of frozen ground and their weakness due to malnutrition. The SS then stated that if they did not dig, they would be shot, whereupon the regular German soldiers simply stated that if the SS guards tried to harm the prisoners that they would kill any SS soldier who did try.

My mother did not hate all Germans and she was always quick to note the kindness that some did show. What I learned from her is that it is very dangerous to generalize when assessing people, if we do, it becomes very easy to hate or despise them all. Dare I say it here on ThaiVisa, I doubt that all western women living in SEA are grasping, hate filled, harridans and not all the male expats in SEA are fat , bald sexpats that cheat on their wives. If we don't take the time to know people and understand their circumstances and lives and just paint them with a broad brush filled with malice, then we risk perpetuating hatred and racism. I certainly don't condone any of the atrocities that occurred during WWII, and yet, it would be very easy for me to despise all Germans for what happened to my mother and her family. I could easily state that all Germans are horrible because of what happened, yet that wouldn't be the truth. Thankfully, due to my mothers wisdom, I realize that even though people may come from a similar background, country, etc, that they are not all the same. Some are good and some are bad and sometimes circumstance can shape our actions.

Again, I apologize for going off topic.

[tutsiwarrior]

I'm a monogamous type and except for the odd bar girl or two when on my own and drunk don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship...and I have found that many men that I know feel that it is a sacred duty to try and bed as many women as possible regardless of the circumstances and expect others to do the same...

thus, I've found myself with associates whom I thought were friends suspecting me of wanting to <deleted> their wives/girlfriends when it was simply a matter of having a drink or two and a laugh in mutual company; that's what they would intend in the same circumstances so why shouldn't I?...this is always disappointing as one would think that friendship is stronger than that...

I've never been jealous when my partner has been the object of attention from our mutual friends; if she wants to get it on with them then it's her business and if it becomes a problem then we'll deal with it but it never has...I guess that I've been lucky in that regard, never suspected any wife or girlfriend of messing around in the past 35 years...and the truth is usually told after the end...

or, maybe I'm just an irresistibly nice guy and no one wants to hurt my feelings...

Edited December 25, 2011 by tutsiwarrior

[peterquixote]

I will take a punt and say that MsClueless is more attractive than she thinks.

Do she give out clues saying I am available.

I personally have just married Thai woman, and I hope that I will stay the course properly.

There is much pain to be achieved by having sex with another woman.

[MsClueless]

maccaroni man

It is not all on my own value or society. This is why i ask hehoheho if his wife know and what she says.

I think relationship is what two/ or three or how many people make it and accept. I know people who agree its ok to flirt or more. But they agree.

I dont believe any man that day were being honest to their partner or had approval from their wives to do what they plan to do.

If their wives are open to it then good for them

I still not interest in them but thsst my choice. They can approach other women.

Graham thanks for share your personal family story with us. Sorry for your mother.

Peter i want think its my beauty but i cannot believe

Sommeone else said western men think (assume) all women in thailand easy. Maybe, i dont know. But i hope some learn not all of us are.

[MsClueless]

tutsi thankyou it is nice to know there are men who dont cheat

And dont think its ok

Some have told me as long as she dont know its ok

I dont agree

[Berkshire]

I'm a monogamous type and except for the odd bar girl or two when on my own and drunk don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship...

Appreciate your honesty, but it would seem that this would not be considered "monogamous." Unless the definition of monogamy has changed recently.

[LadyHeather]

Its interesting that the men who carry on as if its the most normal thing in the world and everyone does it are always the biggest cheaters. There are plenty of men who do not cheat but these guys would never believe it because they think their limited world is the entire world.

Edited December 28, 2011 by LadyHeather

[maccaroni man]

Its interesting that the men who carry on as if its the most normal thing in the world and everyone does it are always the biggest cheaters. There are plenty of men who do not cheat but these guys would never believe it because they think their limited world is the entire world.

The point i was making was that the whole idea of cheating and monogamy is a religious based idea promoted by the wasp. the Mormans, the Muslims, The Balinese are just a few cultures that have strong religious beliefs that allow men to have many women. the asians have minor wives. the latins have mistress. Does this mean that all men from theses cutures have more than one woman? probably not. Does it mean that the man has a low moral standards if he chooses to have more than one partner? No CSNY said it best in a lyrics;" if you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with".

IMO the whole sexual revolution was not about men being loyal but about women being able to do what men do without the guilt. However guilt is a great control tool and some people feel powerless is they are not controlling; using sex and guilt for control purposes is a favorite tool of many victims. BTW last i checked it takes 2 to tango.

[BookMan]

Its interesting that the men who carry on as if its the most normal thing in the world and everyone does it are always the biggest cheaters. There are plenty of men who do not cheat but these guys would never believe it because they think their limited world is the entire world.

The point i was making was that the whole idea of cheating and monogamy is a religious based idea promoted by the wasp. the Mormans, the Muslims, The Balinese are just a few cultures that have strong religious beliefs that allow men to have many women. the asians have minor wives. the latins have mistress. Does this mean that all men from theses cutures have more than one woman? probably not. Does it mean that the man has a low moral standards if he chooses to have more than one partner? No CSNY said it best in a lyrics;" if you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with".

IMO the whole sexual revolution was not about men being loyal but about women being able to do what men do without the guilt. However guilt is a great control tool and some people feel powerless is they are not controlling; using sex and guilt for control purposes is a favorite tool of many victims. BTW last i checked it takes 2 to tango.

I think most people would agree that in western society the covenant of Marriage comes with an understanding that you will be faithful to your partner (unless otherwise agreed). Your arguments might be valid for some societies and groups and relationships, but they don't really apply when talking about western marriage.

The OP was specific in asking about married men.

It is of course very easy to opt out of the whole 'faithfulness' system. The words, 'I DO' opt out, need only be spoken or thought.

[MsClueless]

yes it take two people

But im not married. So im not the one cheating

But i still choose to not do anything with them

U say muslim culture allow 4 wives? Yes its true

But the rule is husband must provide for all wives equally

More, current wives have to agree before man can take new wife

So it is based on honesty

My post mention if your wife knows and agrees, then good lucky man

But these men i talk about do it on sly

[GrahamF]

I'm a monogamous type and except for the odd bar girl or two when on my own and drunk don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship...

Appreciate your honesty, but it would seem that this would not be considered "monogamous." Unless the definition of monogamy has changed recently.

I believe that Tutsi means he doesn't cheat when in a relationship, I take "on my own" to mean not in a relationship."Don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship" makes it pretty clear as well.

[tutsiwarrior]

I'm a monogamous type and except for the odd bar girl or two when on my own and drunk don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship...

Appreciate your honesty, but it would seem that this would not be considered "monogamous." Unless the definition of monogamy has changed recently.

I believe that Tutsi means he doesn't cheat when in a relationship, I take "on my own" to mean not in a relationship."Don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship" makes it pretty clear as well.

yeah...the definition of 'cheating' has to do with the agreement of both parties...short time bar girl action doesn't count if I'm far away from home and drunk...but I did break the rules once when shacked up drunk with a woman in HCMC and forgot to come home when expected...the wife never lets me forget and I'm lucky that I still have a functioning marriage...and, being a remorseful type I cringe when I remember the distress that I caused...

even God got involved as I became dysfunctional a short time after...

[johnbits]

johnbits - no this was not in a bar, but it was a social gathering outside the office

Well, I wouldn't cheat on my wife, but when I was single I did sleep with married women if they were up for it. But I didn't care for that after a time, since they couldn't spend overnight with me and the sex was therefor somewhat limited.

So maybe in Thailand I am not in the majority, not that being in the majority is any great prize. Most of the time the majority isn't doing all that well.

I do like to flirt, but it doesn't go any further than that.

For me it's more that I don't like to multitask and don't like to have to keep a lot of lies straight in my head, and if I am attracted to a women I want more that a few hours in bed with them. So if I am married, it takes away from my relationship with my wife and it is not that satisfying with the other women. I like to take a lot of time with someone I like. Cheating just creates a lot of tension that I don't need.

Just as I don't like the concept of short time, much for the same reason.

I spend all of my time in Thailand not in tourist areas with 99% native thais, most people don't pay special attention to me, so I am not confinced that the majority of thai women are chasing farang men all that often.

[johnbits]

It's our DNA, it's what we're programmed to do.

No doubt both men and women are programmed to have sex and create more children. But any normal man can easily control that urge,

To say we are programmed to do something is IMO just a rationalization to justify something you want to do but shouldn't.

Those that can't control their urges end up dying early. Prison, overeating, drinking too much, other people killing them, etc. They eventually get eliminated from the gene pool.

[bkkjames]

It's our DNA, it's what we're programmed to do.

No doubt both men and women are programmed to have sex and create more children. But any normal man can easily control that urge,

To say we are programmed to do something is IMO just a rationalization to justify something you want to do but shouldn't.

Those that can't control their urges end up dying early. Prison, overeating, drinking too much, other people killing them, etc. They eventually get eliminated from the gene pool.

Think I saw a movie about this with brad pitt and morgan freeman so must be true.

[Berkshire]

I'm a monogamous type and except for the odd bar girl or two when on my own and drunk don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship...

Appreciate your honesty, but it would seem that this would not be considered "monogamous." Unless the definition of monogamy has changed recently.

I believe that Tutsi means he doesn't cheat when in a relationship, I take "on my own" to mean not in a relationship."Don't cheat or mess around when in a relationship" makes it pretty clear as well.

yeah...the definition of 'cheating' has to do with the agreement of both parties...short time bar girl action doesn't count if I'm far away from home and drunk...but I did break the rules once when shacked up drunk with a woman in HCMC and forgot to come home when expected...the wife never lets me forget and I'm lucky that I still have a functioning marriage...and, being a remorseful type I cringe when I remember the distress that I caused...

No Graham, he means when he's away from the wife "on his own" that doing the BG thing is acceptable. Is that how you see it?

[rizenkroft]

The real reason lies within the Bar scene. Most guys gain more confidence in Thailand by Bar girls showing interest in them. This would never happen in their own country. This is the reason the most awfull looking Farlang human beings think they can take down any girl in Thailand. Bar girl or not!

[johnbits]

The real reason lies within the Bar scene. Most guys gain more confidence in Thailand by Bar girls showing interest in them. This would never happen in their own country. This is the reason the most awfull looking Farlang human beings think they can take down any girl in Thailand. Bar girl or not!

I think many things are at work, the bar industry is only one small part. I think it really revolves around money #1, asians respect age and in the West they worship youth #2, and many are looking for something more exotic than what they are used to, Farang's also find women desirable that the aveage Thai does not.

So the bar scene is not all that is happening to affect men's thinking.

I agree with you to a certain extent, men gain confidence from the bar scene, women like confident men, so there is that dynamic at work. Also for some men, knowing if they get rejected they can always go to a bar and select a young lady for the night for a modest fee also gives them confidence.

This can apply to men that never go to bars, as we are all aware of the situation. Maybe this also affects the women, as they know if a man isn't happy, it isn't hard to find someone else.

But this goes way beyond the bar industry and applies to average women as well .

A larger percentage of non-bar-girl women in Thailand (or any poor country with an open society) will be eager to marry a wealther farang than in their home country.

The average farang is wealther than the average Thai. True, sometimes the farang isn't really wealthy by Western standards, some Thais will think the money is unlimited, but those are different problems.

There has also been a worldwide liberalization of sexuality.

BTW, it isn't difficult for me and I suspect most men to find a women in their home country, but it would be difficult to find someone 20-40 years younger than them.

Also, I believe this applies to farang women as well, as a women friend of mine first introduced me to Thailand and showed me around, She has an import/export business, and knows Thailand well. She wanted a Thai BF, and she found someone 10 years younger than her. Given her type of work, it would be diffcult in the West for her to find a quality man for a BF or husband. They plan to marry.

[Berkshire]

...men gain confidence from the bar scene, women like confident men, so there is that dynamic at work. Also for some men, knowing if they get rejected they can always go to a bar and select a young lady for the night for a modest fee also gives them confidence.

I agree with this and have mentioned it in a previous post regarding this farang men "phenomenon" in Thailand. It may not be such a bad thing when men gain confidence in themselves as a result of the attention given to them from younger women--even if it's predominantly in the bar scene. Self confidence can contribute positively to one's quality of life. But there's also the dark side where some of these men look down on the locals, as if to say "if these women want me, the local guys must be REALLY bad!" Kind of ironic, in a way.

[MsClueless]

there was time when a woman to be with a farang is already bad ....just walking with one and everyone talk bad about

Whether you have money or not

That idea still remain in many part of country

[johnbits]

there was time when a woman to be with a farang is already bad ....just walking with one and everyone talk bad about

Whether you have money or not

That idea still remain in many part of country

I have experieced that, some thai people speculate about my GF, they talk about is she a bargirl or isn't she?

(They generally conclude she isn't.)

I don't speak thai, but she tells me what they talk about.

But having a farang also seems to be a status symbol, so maybe it either depends on the relationship, or maybe what part of the country one is in. Not sure, but it seems both things are true.

Personally, I think part of Thai culture is to talk about other people and their relationships.

[WarpSpeed]

Personally, I think part of Thai culture is to talk about other people and their relationships.

Only Thai culture??

[ihunnieibee]

This isn't about Thai or Farang or whatever.

Guys will do this anywhere, especially when there aren't many women around they will be eager to seek the attention of whatever woman is around.

This situation has happened to me NUMEROUS times, in the west and here in Thailand.

Some guys like to cheat, some women like to cheat.

Some people are married or in relationships and aren't happy, not everyone is in the situation to leave their current relationships.

Some people like to have boost to their ego.

I think this behavior depending on the situation can go a little too far but you know what, human beings are sexual creatures and also needy.

People like to know that they can still attract other people. Human nature. If it offends you then you might as well just drop off the face of the earth because there is no way that this will stop just because you don't like it not matter where you are.

I usually take this behavior as a compliment. That doesn't mean you have to do anything with them. Just laugh, smile, and accept the attention. Peoples morals are individual and also their situations. It's up to you if you act on the fact that these guys want to sleep with you. If it's against your morals to sleep with a married man or even flirt with one, walk away. Usually the flirting is just harmless IMO.

[maccaroni man]

This isn't about Thai or Farang or whatever.

Guys will do this anywhere, especially when there aren't many women around they will be eager to seek the attention of whatever woman is around.

This situation has happened to me NUMEROUS times, in the west and here in Thailand.

Some guys like to cheat, some women like to cheat.

Some people are married or in relationships and aren't happy, not everyone is in the situation to leave their current relationships.

Some people like to have boost to their ego.

I think this behavior depending on the situation can go a little too far but you know what, human beings are sexual creatures and also needy.

People like to know that they can still attract other people. Human nature. If it offends you then you might as well just drop off the face of the earth because there is no way that this will stop just because you don't like it not matter where you are.

I usually take this behavior as a compliment. That doesn't mean you have to do anything with them. Just laugh, smile, and accept the attention. Peoples morals are individual and also their situations. It's up to you if you act on the fact that these guys want to sleep with you. If it's against your morals to sleep with a married man or even flirt with one, walk away. Usually the flirting is just harmless IMO.

+1

[tfc]

I've met a some guys who fancy themselves "pick up artists" and like to prove to themselves that they can get positive attraction out of any women including married ones. It's a basic ego thing. They take any response from the woman as a positive sign that they have the mojo and that that women on the primal level actually wants them. It's a weird form of "personal development" which seems to me to be ultimately detrimental because it just feeds the insecurity that they are not good enough and need all these little signs to prove that they are "the man."

Admittedly I can enjoy talking to an attractive woman and will appreciate that she looks attractive but respect the line and not put forth any vibe with sexual overtones or flirt in any way. I find it disrespectful to the woman, her partner and my own partner.

[Sheryl]

My personal opinion is that a lot of the farang men do assume that every woman in Thailand are fair game , as u supposed in your OP. A lot of guys in Thailand see the rules as being different than when they are in their home countries. Many (married or not) see asian women as being 'easy'.

Regretably, I think the above is indeed the case.

What the OP describes is NOT just what men (all/ most/ some depending on your point of view and the circles you move in) do.

As any farang woman knows, they do a variant of it in their home countries but that variant is considerably more circumspect with women they don't know well unless it is in a context which creates an expectation that the woman is "easy".

For some reason people tend to assume foreign cultures are less complex and nuanced than their own, and many farang men make the mistake of thinking that because Thai women are unusually available to them in many settings means that all Thai women are so, all the time, everyplace.

As a result they commit the sort of social offenses the OP describes. Over the years i've seen many similiar posts, sometimes by the offended Thai woman, sometimes by a farang man astonished and baffled that a Thai woman took offense at behavior that he would never have dared try in his home country.

OP, feel free to set them straight on this in as clear terms as you can muster. If they aren't too dense to take it in, you'll be doing them -- and your countrywomen -- a favor.

[MsClueless]

thanks Sheryl

I did opposite and was too embarrassed to say anything

With one man (vulgar one) i pretend not hear and walk away

With two others i nicely remind them they are married and that

1 no i dont want to join him n his friends for drink at whatever bar hes going

2 no he doenst have to drop me home. He should go home to his wife

[F1fanatic]

My personal opinion is that a lot of the farang men do assume that every woman in Thailand are fair game , as u supposed in your OP. A lot of guys in Thailand see the rules as being different than when they are in their home countries. Many (married or not) see asian women as being 'easy'.

Regretably, I think the above is indeed the case.

What the OP describes is NOT just what men (all/ most/ some depending on your point of view and the circles you move in) do.

As any farang woman knows, they do a variant of it in their home countries but that variant is considerably more circumspect with women they don't know well unless it is in a context which creates an expectation that the woman is "easy".

For some reason people tend to assume foreign cultures are less complex and nuanced than their own, and many farang men make the mistake of thinking that because Thai women are unusually available to them in many settings means that all Thai women are so, all the time, everyplace.

As a result they commit the sort of social offenses the OP describes. Over the years i've seen many similiar posts, sometimes by the offended Thai woman, sometimes by a farang man astonished and baffled that a Thai woman took offense at behavior that he would never have dared try in his home country.

OP, feel free to set them straight on this in as clear terms as you can muster. If they aren't too dense to take it in, you'll be doing them -- and your countrywomen -- a favor.

I'm looking forward to you posting links to these 'offended Thai women'....

I don't doubt it happens - as the odd Western man makes the same mistake with farang women here! Presumably they think we are 'desperate' !

[sbk]

I've heard it many times from Thai women, do believe many years ago Donna posted a story about a Thai colleague of hers who came into work in tears over some rude offensive farang man who asked her how much as she was stopped at a red light on her motorbike. I doubt Sheryl or I have the kind of time to go back through years and years of posts but make no mistake, it happens often.