Can I Protect Myself By Leasing Land From My Thai Lady

[krobert6]

Can I protect myself by leasing land from my Thai Lady who I will probably marry and build a house on it.?

In case of future divorce can I secure the land before marriage?

[cardholder]

You can never own it but you can secure rights over it with a lease or usufruct.

[krobert6]

You can never own it but you can secure rights over it with a lease or usufruct.

And if I build on it will I still own the lease if the marriage does not work out?

[terryq]

You can never own it but you can secure rights over it with a lease or usufruct.

But do this BEFORE you marry. Contracts between husband and wife are basically unenforceable.

[stgrhe]

Also consider a pre-nup, which must be signed before marrige registration to be valid i Thailand.

You could choose either a land lease, a usufruct or a superficies as your mean of security. However, not all land offices will agree to register a usufruct or a superficies unless you are married. A land lease is for maximum 30 years while both usufruct and superficies can be for life.

If you are planning to build on the land the superficies would be the best choise, and make sure you sign the construction agreement in your name and apply for the building permit in your name too. This makes it easier for you to own the house sitting on your thai lady's land.

To complete the house ownership the house must be registered at the land office after completion, not to be confused with the registration one does at the tessaban for registration so the house gets an adress.

[cardholder]

Also consider a pre-nup, which must be signed before marrige registration to be valid i Thailand.

You could choose either a land lease, a usufruct or a superficies as your mean of security. However, not all land offices will agree to register a usufruct or a superficies unless you are married. A land lease is for maximum 30 years while both usufruct and superficies can be for life.

If you are planning to build on the land the superficies would be the best choise, and make sure you sign the construction agreement in your name and apply for the building permit in your name too. This makes it easier for you to own the house sitting on your thai lady's land.

To complete the house ownership the house must be registered at the land office after completion, not to be confused with the registration one does at the tessaban for registration so the house gets an adress.

Frankly, there is little practical advantage to owning a house on land that is not owned by you - you legal rights but they are not easy to enforce when friendly relatives are there will sharp pointy things.

Still, it is better than doing nothing - and yes, take legal advice first and let the lawyers draw up the recommended paperwork (and register it at the land office). You can do it all yourself but unless money is a real issue pay for some upfront advice/service.

[InterestedObserver]

Whatever route you choose to take, do it before you are married. That includes building the house. Don't use a joint bank account for any of the funds.

Edited December 31, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[krobert6]

Whatever route you choose to take, do it before you are married. That includes building the house. Don't use a joint bank account for any of the funds.

Thank you all for the advice.

I think I will go with the lease and a prenup as I want her to have the house when I am gone anyway.

[InterestedObserver]

Whatever route you choose to take, do it before you are married. That includes building the house. Don't use a joint bank account for any of the funds.

Thank you all for the advice.

I think I will go with the lease and a prenup as I want her to have the house when I am gone anyway.

The assessed value of the lease will be taxable income to your GF/wife. Current building and land tax rate is 12.5% for leased property.

[krobert6]

Whatever route you choose to take, do it before you are married. That includes building the house. Don't use a joint bank account for any of the funds.

Thank you all for the advice.

I think I will go with the lease and a prenup as I want her to have the house when I am gone anyway.

The assessed value of the lease will be taxable income to your GF/wife. Current building and land tax rate is 12.5% for leased property.

Thanks

It is only 1.5 rai (I think) in Yonok near Chiang Saen - I have no idea what that is worth.

She does not work so the tax may not be a problem ?

[Tanaka]

Whatever route you choose to take, do it before you are married. That includes building the house. Don't use a joint bank account for any of the funds.

Thank you all for the advice.

I think I will go with the lease and a prenup as I want her to have the house when I am gone anyway.

The assessed value of the lease will be taxable income to your GF/wife. Current building and land tax rate is 12.5% for leased property.

Thanks

It is only 1.5 rai (I think) in Yonok near Chiang Saen - I have no idea what that is worth.

She does not work so the tax may not be a problem ?

Whether she is working or not, has no influence on the tax. It will be due anyhow if you chose a lease. And a lease can be for a maximum of 30 years.

[ludditeman]

Build yourself a nice traditional wooden house on stilts.

It won't flood, and if anything goes wrong you can take it with you, or burn it down.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ludditeman

[Khun Jean]

Why the need for a pre-nup?

I would suggest getting a usufruct for the land. Will cost you 100-200 baht and no tax burden.

Do it while you are not married. The usufruct will be your Sin suan tua the land hers. In an event of a divorce only property (except land) that is bought during the marriage wil be sin somros.

[haveaniceday]

Build yourself a nice traditional wooden house on stilts.

It won't flood, and if anything goes wrong you can take it with you, or burn it down.

But you can't insure it !!!

[hanuman2543]

.

" In an event of a divorce only property (except land) that is bought during the marriage wil be sin somros."

Not if it is bought with the sin suan tua of one of the spouses, than it will be the sin suan tua of that spouse and if land is bought with the funds (sin suan tua) of the foreign spouse it is against Land Act Sec 96. See CCC 1471, 1472, Signing that waiver where the foreign spouse declares, that the money for buying the land is the sin suan tua of his wife(and it is not) is punishable by Penal code Sec 137 and 267.

Edited January 4, 2012 by hanuman2543

[krobert6]

.

" In an event of a divorce only property (except land) that is bought during the marriage wil be sin somros."

Not if it is bought with the sin suan tua of one of the spouses, than it will be the sin suan tua of that spouse and if land is bought with the funds (sin suan tua) of the foreign spouse it is against Land Act Sec 96. See CCC 1471, 1472, Signing that waiver where the foreign spouse declares, that the money for buying the land is the sin suan tua of his wife(and it is not) is punishable by Penal code Sec 137 and 267.

So , if I get the usufruct then I cannot be removed from the land and will have full access to the house? if I do get divorced?

Where do I get the usufruct and is there standard wording.

Edited January 5, 2012 by krobert6

[Tanaka]

.

" In an event of a divorce only property (except land) that is bought during the marriage wil be sin somros."

Not if it is bought with the sin suan tua of one of the spouses, than it will be the sin suan tua of that spouse and if land is bought with the funds (sin suan tua) of the foreign spouse it is against Land Act Sec 96. See CCC 1471, 1472, Signing that waiver where the foreign spouse declares, that the money for buying the land is the sin suan tua of his wife(and it is not) is punishable by Penal code Sec 137 and 267.

So , if I get the usufruct then I cannot be removed from the land and will have full access to the house? if I do get divorced?

Where do I get the usufruct and is there standard wording.

A usufruct (of the land) gives you right to use the land to build on, to grow food, plants or whatever on and to get the profit from that. You can do anything you want except destroy or sell it. A usufruct caan be for a period of time, 5, 10 years whatever or for your life. It expires with you. But you can lease it to someone, your child or whoever you want, and that lease does NOT expire when you die. There are standared forms to find but every case is different and it is worth it to get a Good lawyer who is familiar with land rights, to form the contract to present to the Land Office. The usufruct must be written on the land deed.

If you want to build a house, you can take a superficies for that and it must be done the house is finished. Be sure your name is on the building permit and other legal papers for the house build. That way you will be the owner of the house.

[thaiwanderer]

But you can lease it to someone, your child or whoever you want, and that lease does NOT expire when you die.

As always when this is raised, I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree. See previous usufruct threads.

Edited January 6, 2012 by thaiwanderer

[thaiwanderer]

In relation to the OP itself, given the differing legal rights (Foreigner / Thai) I'd suggest considering having the land and house in her name so as to make adequate provision for her on divorce (assuming you then marry.... and divorce, intend to make adequate provision for her..... and yourself elsewhere sensibly).

[krobert6]

I have been to the chiang saen land office and they say Ineed a work permit to be allowed to have a usufruct on my ladies land. I have a tourist visa only

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[krobert6]

I have been quoted 10000 to have a 'guarantee' written which will not be held by the land office - ours this worth the paper it is written on

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[ludditeman]

I have been to the chiang saen land office and they say Ineed a work permit to be allowed to have a usufruct on my ladies land. I have a tourist visa only

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That means they didn't want to do it, there is no such requirement.

As a little aside.

I had a friend buy a lease for 1.5million baht on a piece of land to build a house.

All paid and duly registered at the land office.

Three months later, they found the land had been sold and a Thai had started building a house on the land.

The land office had happily canceled the lease when the land owner asked them nicely.

Spending money on land here is a fools errand for a foreigner, it appears to me no deal with a foreigner is considered binding.

Krobert, don't waste your money, your local land office has already indicated what they think of foreigners.

Edited February 20, 2012 by ludditeman

[krobert6]

I have been quoted 10000 to have a' guarantee' written up by a lawyer is this wort h the paper it is written on

does anyone know a reasonable chiang rai lawyer

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