Is It Worth Investing In Property In Thailand When Its So Hard To Get A Visa There?

[theVenerable]

Hi

It seems that its not easy to get a Visa to live in Thailand these days.

The best that can be done is perhaps a 6 month visa?

I was considering in investing in property over there, but It would be annoying if I couldnt stay there when I wanted.

I don't know a great deal about The visa system there.

But I can say I'm not rich, and if I did invest in property, that would be about all my money gone in doing so, lol.

With that in mind, do you more experienced guys think its worth my while doing so?

Or would I be caught too many times with my visa running out to make it worthwhile?

Thanks

[Soutpeel]

The simple answer is that its not worth the risk of investing in property in Thailand.

As the old saying goes...only invest in Thailand what you are prepared to walk away from

[theVenerable]

The simple answer is that its not worth the risk of investing in property in Thailand.

As the old saying goes...only invest in Thailand what you are prepared to walk away from

Ouch.. is it really that bad? lol

is it just the visa issue?

Or are there other issues?

This property woiuldnt be in my name, it would be in my thai ladyfriends name, she lives out there.

If that clarifies anything.

[Darrel]

This property woiuldnt be in my name, it would be in my thai ladyfriends name, ....

You're thinking of putting all your savings into property in a foreign country and doing so in someone else's name?

Wow.

[theVenerable]

This property woiuldnt be in my name, it would be in my thai ladyfriends name, ....

You're thinking of putting all your savings into property in a foreign country and doing so in someone else's name?

Wow.

Well, if you can indulge me and let me worry about that aspect of it,

(not everyone's a crook)

Would that leave any other problems, other than the visa issue?

Thanks

[Soutpeel]

This property woiuldnt be in my name, it would be in my thai ladyfriends name, ....

You're thinking of putting all your savings into property in a foreign country and doing so in someone else's name?

Wow.

Well, if you can indulge me and let me worry about that aspect of it,

(not everyone's a crook)

Would that leave any other problems, other than the visa issue?

Thanks

Two comments....."not everyone's crook" and let me guess she is different ?.... ....Strange how many times I have heard this in Thailand, generally just before the farang returns "home" to find the outlaws have moved in and the locks changed

The major problem is.....it aint your property, if you put it in the teeraks name, its her's.

You have already stated that this would use up all your money, so are you prepared to risk all the cash you have by giving to your GF, who will be putting the property in her name .....in a nutshell you could end up with nothing if things go pear shaped...May I humbly suggest you start thinking with the head on your shoulders

[seanocasey]

Yep there is one every day, I personally would not. I'D BUY A APARTMENT IN BANGKOK for me let the girlfriend live there. If the relationship went sour iv still got the place in my name and I can sell or rent out and get a new GF.

Just my two cents worth.

[Soutpeel]

Yep there is one every day, I personally would not. I'D BUY A APARTMENT IN BANGKOK for me let the girlfriend live there. If the relationship went sour iv still got the place in my name and I can sell or rent out and get a new GF.

Just my two cents worth.

A far smarter approach IMHO

[london]

TheVenerable,

one word: DON'T !

You are already worried about a Visa issue, when you should be worried about the actual investment into property.

From what you have said, you don't have the experience in Thailand, you don't have experience in property and you don't have the funds to lose.

[theVenerable]

TheVenerable,

one word: DON'T !

You are already worried about a Visa issue, when you should be worried about the actual investment into property.

From what you have said, you don't have the experience in Thailand, you don't have experience in property and you don't have the funds to lose.

I can see your concern.. but I do have experience of Thailand.

I was staying with said ladyfriend for 4 months, she didnt ask for anything, and neither has she once suggested I should get a place in Thailand.

I'm just considering the possibility of Going halves with her on a place or something.

With that in mind, and not wanting to give my life story, lol.

Are there any other areas I'd need to consider, or can you elaborate on possible Visa solutions / property pitfalls etc?

(other than the ones you mentioned above.)

Thanks

[Jessi]

DO NOT buy property in Thailand! You are not a citizen so you have NO RIGHTS.

The street are litterd with expats that have bought property in Thailand and lost Millions of $. Do you wish to be one of those?

And most of them said "You dont understand this is different"

[theVenerable]

DO NOT buy property in Thailand! You are not a citizen so you have NO RIGHTS.

The street are litterd with expats that have bought property in Thailand and lost Millions of $. Do you wish to be one of those?

And most of them said "You dont understand this is different"

hmm

[Schtroumpf]

I am 40 years old. The end of empire ambiance and economical outlook of Europe is pushing me to retire early. Maybe not with the luxury I could afford at 65 but I prefer more quality time than assets.

Thailand is on the top of the list of the destination to plan my retirement.

I have a lot of travel plans but I find important to find a place I can call home. It seems that I am too young for Thailand, probably something cultural that I don't understand with the 50 years old limit. Maybe something to do with the 30 years lease (live expectancy is 71/76 in Thailand)

What I understand is that the Thai government is protecting Thai citizen from the invasion of foreigners like European government are trying to do (not so successfully).

On a planet with 7 billion people, the nice place to live are already occupied since a long time are willing to defend their land and culture unfortunately nothing new here.

To me it's great for Thai people that they forbid the foreigners to own land although at 40 years old the 30 years lease seems a little too short . A lot of people in Tuscany or South of France would have love that kind of laws (where children have to leave because land/houses are too expensive)

What I don’t like is that the visa policy is not very environment friendly.

I just come from the consulate and I had to buy a plane ticket to leave the country after 3 month. Well I was planning to use trains and buses but that's not valid. I wonder if this rule is not lobbying from the airlines industry. It’s a bonus of more than twice the price of the visa for Airasia if I don’t use the ticket. I would rather pay more for my visa and leave the money to the government and people of Thailand.

Buy a condo ? Maybe if later I decide that I want to stay in Thailand with the investment visa. Although since I would move with my non Thai girlfriend that's 20 million bath a lot of eggs in the same basket...

If I decide to buy condos, I would buy units that Thai middle class can afford in a city or in a touristic area that Asian tourist like; with the rent revenue, I would rent a house for me and my wife.

From my readings and homework, a condo in Thailand could be a great investment if:

The visa politic remains unchanged or get relaxed.

There is no more violent political trouble in the future.

There is no huge catastrophic natural disaster and/or epidemic.

The interdiction to buy land remains unchanged (if land is available to foreigners the interest in condo market will decrease in some regions)

The Asian emerging markets continue to generate a new middle class that will take their holydays in the region.

The condo value could really drop if :

• Europe and US depression confirm and emerging markets fail to create more middle class.
  
• The visa politic get reinforced with the crisis and only a fraction of the non-immigrants can stay in the country
  

There are probably a lot of other factors that I don’t see but hey I am just at the early beginning of the exploration and not yet there

Condos are specials compare to houses, look in Florida; with the subprime crisis, you have thousands of condos almost empty and the remaining owners have to abandon it because they cannot afford the maintenance charges (like 5 condo owners paying for a 100 units building).Then the maintenance is not made and the building deteriorate so quickly that nobody want to buy even for pennies on the dollar. So I mean the value of a condo can go to zero.

Well no investment is secure. You could have invested in Enron a while ago, or you could have your savings at MF global recently.

It’s true that when your investment is subject to government confiscation it’s a bit scary (although even if the visa law change and you are out of Thailand it does not mean that your condo is not yours anymore even if nobody want to buy it) but when you look at the western markets it’s not better with government choosing which company to save with out of the printing press dollars.

I have lived in Saudi Arabia for a while; I can tell you that when I travel I never forget that I am a foreigner and I am grateful and happy when I feel welcome in another country.

The Thai visa could seem foreigner unfriendly but according to what I read and know Thai people are not.

I always feel better in places where there are some foreigners so I am not coming from mars but where the foreigners are not seen as a cultural danger or as a cow to milk.

I can’t wait next month to start discovering Thailand then Malaysia then Indonesia ...

[Canada]

from a guy who has property..... is a risky prospect. I love my wife, she loves me, but with all the legal protection that the law affords here, in the best case scenario in the event of a split I could hope for half. The protections that I have in place will only assure that the law in terms of marital assets needs to be followed. The one hitch not in my favor which is important is that a contract with a Thai spouse may be voided after one year after divorce. This makes a contract with your wife not worth much which in turn makes your land purchase not worth much either.

Visa issue are solvable if you are creative.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Do mot do what you're thinking of doing. It is pure insanity.

[theVenerable]

Thanks Schtroumpf for that in-depth account.

from a guy who has property..... is a risky prospect. I love my wife, she loves me, but with all the legal protection that the law affords here, in the best case scenario in the event of a split I could hope for half. The protections that I have in place will only assure that the law in terms of marital assets needs to be followed. The one hitch not in my favor which is important is that a contract with a Thai spouse may be voided after one year after divorce. This makes a contract with your wife not worth much which in turn makes your land purchase not worth much either.

Visa issue are solvable if you are creative.

Thanks.

Without wanting to be a pest, I may pm you for some pointers on the visa stuff.

I've allraedy had some good advice a few month ago about 6 month visas.

Possibly able to stretch it to 9 months , with 2 visa runs to cambodia needed.

As for the rest.... relax guys, i'm not as stupid as I may have sounded.

Whats more, I havnt even decided a thing yet, just getting the lay of the land.

Also worth mentioning, my ladyfriend seems to gets a bit uncomfortable when i mention this...I think she isnt particularly keen on using other peoples money.. I have to point out to her that it would be for my benefit also.

Anyway, I could go on 'defending' myself, and you could go on telling me 'thats what they all say'.

Either way, nothing has been decided at all.

Just asking for opinions on certain areas, to get the lay of the land, as I say.

Edited January 10, 2012 by theVenerable

[london]

the Venerable,

OK, and again, I should put my cards on the table: I do own condos here in Thailand (multiple).

Now that may sound strange when I am suggesting that you don't buy, but my reasons have more to do with the property market here at present (and anywhere for that matter) than your Visa issue.

To me, a Visa issue is just that: its an "issue", NOT a barrier to investment. So whatever happens, even with a visitors visa and you have to leave every 30 days, the fact is you can still own a condo in Thailand and live in it when you are here.

Now onto why I am saying "DON'T"....

you said: "But I can say I'm not rich, and if I did invest in property, that would be about all my money gone in doing so, lol."

That is what concerns me.

I don't have the concerns re Visa's etc that other posters have as I feel that over time, Thailand will move to be more open rather than closed to become more inline with other economies in the region.

Thailand depends strongly upon foreigners and tourist money and is not likely to do anything to jeopardise this market (after doing so a few years back and virtually immediately reversing the decision).

What Schtroumpf has said are concerns that many of us have had, but no-one can predict the future here with any certainty and events such as natural disasters can occur anywhere.

Also, I do feel that there is a glut of condo's on the market now in less than prime areas. This may depress prices or have them plateau for a period.

However, I do have enormous faith and optimism in the region as a whole and have invested considerable amounts in SE Asia.

[Darrel]

Well, if you can indulge me and let me worry about that aspect of it, ....

I'm not at all worried; it's not my money that's at stake. I'm just bemused.

If I was in your shoes I might think about buying a condo as something that I could own outright, perhaps let out from time to time, and live in now or later on. But buying a house in the GF's name? Even if she is as honest as the day is long then you still have to think about possible death or insanity, or even her getting scammed by some Thai. Though as you say, that's your worry and I'll let you get on with it.

I was actually more bemused by the idea of putting all your savings into foreign property in a country you have no right of abode in. Not something I would do, but what do I know? Given the right property (and I would never buy anything that I couldnt happily live in myself) I might possibly put 10 or maybe 20% of my net wealth into property here. But no more.

For visas, you're fine once you're 50 at the moment but this could change and probably will at some point. At least you're fine if you still have 800KBaht to deposit and haven't spent it all on a house, or if you have the equivalent of 800KBaht per year as a certifiable foreign income. These figures haven't changed for a while so they may be due for an (upwards) revision.

In the meantime, you can get still get multiple-entry visas that give you 90 days per entry, so possibly up to 15 months per visa with a few border runs. Or you can get "ed" visas, potentially for several years, by signing up for lessons with some sort of school here. It seems as though all these slightly devious procedures are being looked at at the moment and I doubt that any of them will get any easier or cheaper. Successive multiple-entry visas are certainly getting much harder to obtain, as many here have found. Presumably because the assumption is that anyone getting multiple successive visas is probably working illegally, or otherwise up to no good.

[Semper]

I was staying with said ladyfriend for 4 months, she didnt ask for anything

They never ask for anything during the first year or so, to make sure that you have swallowed the hook, sink and line. Then they start to reel in the catch.

[lopburi3]

One flame removed.

[steelepulse]

Are you old enough to get a retirement visa? If not, you could legally marry said ladyfriend and get a one year non O visa at a time. I'll avoid the issue of ownership, besides to ask does your friend have half of the amount to put up?

[ExpatJ]

To the OP-

Firstly dont be put off by posters who say 'only invest in Thailand what you can afford to lose'- that applies to every country in the world and is- generally - posted by people with no money to invest or lose ( posters on this thread excluded naturally :-)

I have been looking to buy a condo as an investment in Bangkok for 3 years, but have decided not to for now- mainly because while Eu/USA, Hong Kong, Singapore have all experienced/ing big drops in housing prices (often 30% plus) Thailand has not yet, the prices are still higher than pre-2008 and current 2011/12 economic crisis levels- this means Thailand condos/houses are still over priced and i believe there is a good chance of a price correction. At least enough of a chance for me to hold off buying for now.

Having said that, in the long term (15 years plus) buying property now in central Bangkok is still viable as an investment- as another poster mentioned, i see a bright future for the region and central Bangkok will turn into a Singapore/HK like area in the future i.e. rich residents, high value businesses and high value expats all of which will mean high property prices in the long term.

[IMA_FARANG]

Well, you as a foriegner can not own land in Thailand.

Yes, I know ways you can lease or otherwise legally obtain the right to use land. (I"m deliberately being a little unclear on saying anything other than what I just said).

But the basic point is that whatever procedure you use to "own" land in Thailand as a foriegner can be challenged in a Thai court, and the fact that they can use the "foriegner's can't own land in Thailand" law is against you...so your case is biased against you at it's very beginning.

And because you can't own that land a house is on...your Thai partner has all the good cards in his or her hand at the very start.

Just consider that fact...then make up your own mind on what to do.

Just be aware of the real situation.

P.S. This not apply to "owning" a condo...that is legal for foriegners. I need to be clear about that.

BUT even then, their are stipulations you must comply with.

Edited January 10, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[bobl]

theVenerable...

I would strongly advise against putting ALL your money into buying property here. Not because it's "dangerous" but because it's the wrong thing to do. In ANY country.

First of all, on the Visa issue, it's not nearly as bad as you may be led to believe. As long as you approach it with a modicum of common sense staying here long term and legally, is entirely possible. That is unlikely to change very much even if they do shuffle some "rules" around. They are not trying to keep "you" out - they're trying to keep criminals and undesirables out. If you don't fit into either of those two categories yes - there may be some hoops and inconveniences you have to jump through from time to time but with little effort you will be able to come and go as you please.

Secondly, you are moving to a country where you can rent a decent house for $1,000 a year. Or blow $60,000 a year on a luxury villa. Up to you. But absolutely no need to wade in up to your neck and plonk down your life savings on a property. Give it a year, or three, or five and if your finances, relationship and circumstances still fit the bill - that's the time to think about buying.

[parallaxtech]

You should rent for several months or years until you are sure of where in Thailand you want to live. During that time you will have a good picture of renting vs buying. I rented for three years before investing a huge amount of money (for me). I talked with several rich friends who had invested $1-5M+ in Koh Samui and they had already made money on previous investments here and were not concerned about losing anything. We all seem to have one thing in common, though, nothing is in our female partner's name. Many here trust their other halves with huge investments but that is a risk I would never take. If she is a wonderful person and companion for many years you can always will the property to her, but I would not recommend telling here this while you are still alive. You can just tell her that she will be taken care of as long as you die of natural causes.

The visa issue is really a non-issue. I have several friends between 25-40 who have been here for years. Many on this forum such as Mario can tell you how to get visas and then once you get here and talk with others they will give you the skinny on how to stay here as long as you wish.

[samsiam]

Putting all your money into a foreign country with poor protection for yourself....and in the name of a gf you have only known for 4 months....well, your statement ' i'm not as stupid as I may have sounded.'...does not hold much water.

[PattayaPhom]

A question like this will always attract the usual suspects of doomsdayers that have either lost it all or just havnt got the money to buy anywhere and are peefed off they missed the boat and now cant afford anything.

Depending on age, status and where you are from will determine which visa you can have. Many stay here on retirement visas, education visas or ;O; visas as they have friends/family here. Buying a property wont give any credits toward visa applications.

As for property here, if you want to buy a small condo in Pattaya, you can expect a return after fees, maitenance etc of about 9% Nett....thats a lot better than you will get tied up in a bank....Risk is the same as anywhere, prices could go down but if you buy a condo that is popular with tenants you will still be receiving your return and the drop in price would be minimal. Many posters just havnt accepted the fact that Thailand and especially Pattaya has changed in the past few years...its a very popular place all year round and isnt just a seasonal place for the sexpats anymore....Take a trip here and do your research, then make up your own mind without the intervention of the barfly experts.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Lite Beer
Derogatory remarks removed.

[mijan24]

DO NOT buy property in Thailand! You are not a citizen so you have NO RIGHTS.

The street are litterd with expats that have bought property in Thailand and lost Millions of $. Do you wish to be one of those?

And most of them said "You dont understand this is different"

hmm

There has been many posts offering good advice but I think you the OP summed up your own thoughts back in post 12 when you responded with hmm.

From that hmm to me - it doesn' matter what thoughts or advice comes out you have already made your decision and your main concern is about "visas" so forge ahead the person who tells you they have never been "burnt" in Thailand is "handling the truth carelessly" remembering there are different dergrees of "being burnt"!! Lets hope your first experience isn't life threatening.

[Darrel]

As for property here, if you want to buy a small condo in Pattaya, you can expect a return after fees, maitenance etc of about 9% Nett....

The owner of the condo I rent would disagree with you, as would the owners of several units in VT5 where I know that the tenants are paying 10K a month for units supposedly worth 3MB. All those units, and mine, are returning well under 5% gross but the owners are probably pleased to have reliable tenants on one-year contracts, rather than short-term party animals on a bender.

[ludditeman]

The simple answer is that its not worth the risk of investing in property in Thailand.

As the old saying goes...only invest in Thailand what you are prepared to walk away from

Ouch.. is it really that bad? lol

is it just the visa issue?

Or are there other issues?

This property woiuldnt be in my name, it would be in my thai ladyfriends name, she lives out there.

If that clarifies anything.

If you can get 90 baht to the UKP, it's probably worth the risk

At 50 to the UKP no way.

You can't own the land, you can't get a long term visa without money (age 50+) or a wife.