Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[jji23]

Hi All,

After some low A-level grades in England I went into full time work in London as a Stockbroker which isn't as glamourous as it sounds. 1000 pounds basic per month + commission, which in 2008 didn't come by that much. I had previously visited Thailand and wanted to come here permanently, so sought ways to do that. Naturally I found TEFL. I arrived in January 2009.

I am 24 years old now and have been living in Thailand for 3 years. During this time I have worked in 2 schools, the school I currently work at, is in northern Bangkok. I also teach privately and with everything together manage to take home about 60,000 thai baht per month. With the cost of living out here quite cheap I manage to save around 25,000 baht per month.

Whilst I've been here most of my friends have completed bachelor degrees in England or got qualified in the construction industry. I've been thinking a lot recently about living here and I think I'm starting to feel like I'm being left behind, and that my time here has been a waste. It seems that recently I only see the bad things, perhaps this is a stage everyone goes through? For instance no pavements, no parks, too hot, smoggy, grotty, bad roads, dangerous driving, face, hi so - lo so, etc. But the worst thing is being a teacher here not because of the kids but because of bloody admin and thai management. I feel like I'm constantly banging my head against a brick wall and that the foreign teachers are constantly being made to do more and more. It's very stressful, I look around at some of the guys where I work and think that's me soon, you know the ones who wine and complain at everything, or that no one likes or gets on with.

I am giving a lot of thought to going back home where my friends and family are, and 'doing' something with my life before it's too late. I am currently doing an online bachelors degree, but was wandering about what can TEFL teachers go back and do in the UK? Also what could I say about TEFLing on my CV? Has anyone on here gone back and found a good job? A few people were saying that living in another country and its culture counts a lot at places like the U.N etc.

Maybe this feeling will pass and I'll start remembering the good things about being here. But really do feel like my time is done here. Does/has anyone else feel/felt like this?

I look forward to hearing from you all.

[Briggsy]

I would advise you to get a transferable skill asap. It is very unlikely you will get that in Thailand. It could be anything from being a qualified actuary to being able to instal boilers. But you need to get a skill. You are only 24. Now is the time. You pretty much said so yourself in your post. You have 40 years till retirement. TEFLing in Thailand is not the way to go.

If you don't, be prepared for a life of penny-pinching and meeting the guys you previously used to work in the UK, when you are 36, 12 years from now, and discovering to your horror that they earn 10 times, I mean literally 10 times what you earn. And, you will know that you are more intelligent and hard-working than them.

You've had your fun. Quit TEFLing while you are ahead.

Believe me, I know what I am talking about.

[chiang mai]

I would advise you to get a transferable skill asap. It is very unlikely you will get that in Thailand. It could be anything from being a qualified actuary to being able to instal boilers. But you need to get a skill. You are only 24. Now is the time. You pretty much said so yourself in your post. You have 40 years till retirement. TEFLing in Thailand is not the way to go.

If you don't, be prepared for a life of penny-pinching and meeting the guys you previously used to work in the UK, when you are 36, 12 years from now, and discovering to your horror that they earn 10 times, I mean literally 10 times what you earn. And, you will know that you are more intelligent and hard-working than them.

You've had your fun. Quit TEFLing while you are ahead.

Believe me, I know what I am talking about.

Agreed, 100%

[Scott]

I tend to agree, but it's up to everyone to find their own career path. My personal suggestion would be to continue with the University degree, but it's better if you can do it at a University rather than on-line. On-line usually takes a long time to complete.

I don't know about opportunities with TEFL teaching in the UK, but with a rather large immigrant population, I am sure they exist.

You are young, appear to be motivated and ready for a change. Now is the time for doing something. Thailand will always be here.

So many people are struggling with the Bachelor's degree and education credits and Teacher's License or Waiver. For a lot of them, time has passed them by and they really have a very limited future in Thailand and virtually no options at home.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[krabicriminal]

Hmm, I understand you reason for feeling this way. It seems you, like many others here, have put all your eggs in one basket. I agree with the other replies to some extent, but what would your situation at home be? Where would you live? how much money could you earn ect. You say you manage to save 25 k a month here, roughly £500. I think the current economic climate in the UK would make it difficult for an un educated and under skilled 20 something to save that much each month. The cost of living is so high there, and your wages would not be high enough (yet) to have the standard of living you have here in Thailand. I would recommend that you stick with it, keep saving and continue your online degree. If you do that for a couple of years, at least you will be going home with a stack of money and some peace of mind.

A few years ago this may not have been my reply. But we are living in uncertain times, and jobs are scarce in England right now.

On the other hand, if you are fed up with Tardland and are no longer happy here, then by all means do one. You could always come back in the future. As was said before, you seem like a motivated and intelligent person. I am sure you will make the right choc ice. All the best.

Que sera sera, whatever will be will be, Icke is going to wembely, que sera sera

[ludditeman]

If you don't, be prepared for a life of penny-pinching and meeting the guys you previously used to work in the UK, when you are 36, 12 years from now, and discovering to your horror that they earn 10 times, I mean literally 10 times what you earn. And, you will know that you are more intelligent and hard-working than them.

Most men in the UK are misrable and are owned by their women by the age of 36.

You would be returning to a country with a high cost of living, limited job opportunities, limited access to sex.

Not exactly a life I would reccomend for a young man either.

Money isn't everything, especially when you end up earning it as a slave for someone else.

But

Working as a TEFL teacher in Thailand isn't exactly ideal either.

Edited January 16, 2012 by ludditeman

[chiang mai]

I somewhat agree with krabicriminal's comments and they do make sense in the short term, but when I look at the larger and longer picture I realsie that things in the UK will change for the better at some point and, if you have no useable skills to fall back on you will remain unemployable when the times do become good. I think that which ever way you cut it you are going to have to acquire those skills, they will last you for life, far better to suffer all the pain up front in the knowledge that Thailand will still be here when you're done learning.

[steve187]

England at the moment is not that much fun, high rents, high council tax,unemployment at a high, not counting all the construction subbies that are not showing on the books, food expensive as well as house utilities, water, gas ,electric, as krabicriminal posted you would be lucky to save £500 per month over there. Without a real skill behind you and no degree where would you find a job, amongst all the skilled/qualified jobless out there

Would you be eligible for a university course as you have not been resident for 3 years?

Yes move back over there get a qualification or trade behind you, but it will not be easy, If you are fed up here then it will be double that there.

i think you really need to plan where you are going with your career , A few thousand pounds saved from here to take with you, will not go far unless you have things planned from day one of your arrival.

Good luck

[aussiebebe]

The way the OP says he feels about Thailand is quite common among expats I'm sure - I know I've felt like that. There are certainly opportunities teaching ESL in language schools in the UK but this would unlikely make ends meet. A common move from Thailand is the Middle East for many teachers where tax-free salaries are typically generous (see numerous adverts on tefl.com) - this seems undesirable for the OP as he wishes to return to the UK but in any case such jobs would rarely accept an online undergrad degree.

My overall advice would be to finish the online degree whilst maintaining the monthly savings and then use the broad range of online career services to apply for jobs in the UK before planning the move back. Many UK graduates end up taking non-graduate jobs, the OP will have to move in with parents or friends, take whatever job, perhaps through a temping agency and then work at his chosen field that way.

As an aside, this is an interesting thread to read as I'd always assumed investment bankers to be highly remunerated!

[jji23]

Hello everybody,

Thanks for all the advice.

Living in Bangkok is grotty and I don't think my view of that will change, I would much rather be back in North London with parks, being able to walk to places etc. As for the society and real culture here, I find it obnoxious, inconsiderate, egotistical, corrupt, and downright backwards. But like krabicriminal says going back now to live at home again and start some sort of course would be the wrong choice. I feel if I can slog it out here for a further 4-5 years saving and earning my degree, I will be in a much better position to return home.

I think that having to do 6 day weeks to 'make up for the flood leave substitution' and my brand new car being 49th in the queue at the ford garage to be fixed! Plus having to buy new furniture, studying, and the permanent banging of my head against a brick wall that is Teaching in Thailand are perhaps just getting me down ATM. However I do strongly agree with some of the other replies and know that my future lies in England with my family doing a 'real' (sorry to any TEFLers!) job with prospects etc.

I hope this post has been useful and given some people a different perspective on living and working here.

[Briggsy]

jji23

Thanks for posting your thoughts and current decision. I respect that.

Would you allow me to point out some holes in your logic? This is not a criticism.

Your plan is to TEFL for another 4 to 5 years in Thailand in order to save up enough to cushion your return to the UK. With all due respect that makes no sense whatsoever on 3 important levels.

1. The most important consideration in terms of cost in the UK is housing cost. At the age of 24, you probably have somewhere to stay for a few weeks or months. In addition, depending on your circumstances, you can receive considerable housing benefit. I don't see the need for a financial cushion.

2. You state you will do an online degree in Thailand. At the age of 29, you intend to return to the UK with a degree which may be of virtually no use to any prospective employer. Again, depending on circumstances, large student loans are available in the UK. (A degree is not the only form of vocational training available.)

3. You will be wasting the most valuable years in terms of skills development of your career by TEFLing in Bangkok. At 29, you will still be without a skill and in a much worse position than you are in now and probably beginning to feel bitter.

Again, I am not criticising you, just pointing out the weaknesses of your plan. I don't feel it has been formulated well. Its chief aim seems to be postponing changing your situation, postponing leaving Thailand and making an initially difficult. move. If these are what your aims are, you need to be more honest with yourself and admit that you are happy to stay here even if it dooms you to a life of low pay and never-ending TEFLing.

I hope you don't take my critical input the wrong way.

[Murf]

I am in the same position and i am 33... I am happy.

Some people think too much, take a tip out of the the Thai's book and think about today... I wouldn't want to go back to the UK if i could carry on carrying on.

[paully]

I am in the same position

take a tip out of the the Thai's book and think about today... I wouldn't want to go back to the UK if i could carry on carrying on.

But you have to have some sort of long-term plan in mind, Murf, not just drift along.

Briggsy's comments are right on the money, for yourself (with respect) as much as for the OP. TEFL teaching in Thailand is fun...for a while. Then you have to move on.

In order to do that you have to have some real transferable skills or a new qualification.

Edited January 18, 2012 by paully

[skybluestu]

I imagine the people that are advising the OP to go back to the UK are a fair bit older than him and have maybe retired here after working/living in the UK most of their lives. If so they should realise that life for people in their 20s and 30s is very different now to when they were that age and working in the UK doesn't necessarily mean they will have a better future than working here, especially in the current financial climate. I came here aged 32 with a modest amount of savings behind me and now have a better quality of life than friends & colleagues of a similar age still in the UK.

One example is a couple who visited me recently that still work at the financial institution I worked at prior to coming here, in the last four years they have both been promoted yet still go into their overdraught evey month and can't save anything. They have an interest only mortgage for 30yrs on a one-bedroom flat due to the insanely high prices of property and can afford one overseas trip per year, if they are lucky. They want kids but can't afford to have any, pay huge amounts of taxes each month and have high monthly bills for electric, gas, water, telephone...pretty much everything. Car tax and insurance prices mean they use public transport and even if they did own a car look at how much it costs for a service, repair etc which is the same for anything, how much does a plumber or electrician charge these days? A night out sets them back the equivalent of at least 5000baht between them, sometimes as much as 10,000baht, and on top of all this they actually hate the hamster-wheel existence, don't enjoy their work or living there for many reasons including crime, weather, rising racial tensions and the binge drinking that is part of the culture. I live in a 3-bedroom newly built house, drive a new car, pay hardly any tax, pay very little for electric/water/gas/telephone, have 13 weeks paid holiday per year, can have a nice night out for 1000baht etc and all this on about a third of what I used to earn. Thailand is far from perfect and teaching is never going to make anyone rich but I have job satisfaction and a better quality of life than if I'd stayed in the UK. Food for thought for the OP!

[jji23]

In answer to Briggsy I have this to say;

1. Your first point seems valid, however I was more thinking along the lines of using that as a deposit to buy my own home/flat. As skybluestu has shown the cost of living, can you imagine the rent prices? service charges? council tax? Also do you have any idea what sort of benefits a 24 year old male can receive in the UK?...pretty much nothing except thrown into a hostel and put on the council housing waiting list.

2. Secondly, I am studying a Bsc in Environmental Science with the OU. A quick online search for career opportunities in this sector brings up a plethora of possible options. Another thing, I'll have you know that any qualification with the OU is highly valued even so to the extent of employers preferring it, the ability needed to juggle life and do a distance learning degree shows great perseverance, organisation, and intelligence.

3. In these 'most valuable years' I will be developing a range of skills (see above).

So, hopefully you can see my way of thinking in regard to my plan. I appreciate your input and you gave me a lot to think about. May I ask if you have had any regrets about past decisions? or feeling bitter?

skybluestu, you have certainly given me a whole new perspective. Almost to the point that I think perhaps I'm just going through a rough patch being over here, and that things will start feeling better soon. You Sir, have certainly hit the nail on the head in regards to life in the UK, especially London.

[markg]

Here are my thoughts.

1. What you earn in any job or country is irrelevant. How much you can save is what is important. I know people earning HUGE bucks in the Middle East, yet save less than me every month when leading a comparable life style.

2. I save between 20 and 30k baht a month. At UK rates, that is 4 to 600 pounds a month. I know no one in the UK who is currently doing that.

3. If BKK is getting up your nose, then move out of the city. Plenty of nice places in Thailand. Refer to point one above about how much you can save each month. There are people in Isarn and Chiang Mai saving more than a TEFLer in BKK.

4. Get out of TEFLing. It's not a long term plan. Even with years of experience, you may join a new school on the bottom salary. The same as a backpacker. Unfair but true.

5. Teaching, in my opinion, is a calling. Do you feel that love and connection with teaching, or are you just doing it as a means to earn money? If it is the latter, and please, do not be ashamed if it is, then now would be a time to think about moving careers.

6. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that your only choices are Thailand or 'home'. The world is still plenty big enough.

7. If you love teaching but have had enough of Thai admin, then consider (a) moving to another country, or ( moving to an international school

8. You can do online, fully accredited Bachelor degrees and PGCEi from UK universities whilst living cheaply here. Some international schools will hire you with those qualifications, but, see point 5 above.

All find and dandy now eh? But there's more, isn't there. There is your heart speaking. Do you miss family and friends? Do you miss the ease in which you can explain yourself in a store? Consumer protection? Credible lawyers? Extremely limited corruption? Distinct seasons? No visa issues? Having the chance to put down roots and buy a house in your own name? Then get yourself back home.

Best of luck with your choices.

[paully]

I came here aged 32 with a modest amount of savings behind me and now have a better quality of life than friends & colleagues of a similar age still in the UK.

I live in a 3-bedroom newly built house, drive a new car, pay hardly any tax, pay very little for electric/water/gas/telephone, have 13 weeks paid holiday per year, can have a nice night out for 1000baht etc and all this on about a third of what I used to earn.

With the greatest possible respect, skyblue, you don't sound like the average TEFL teacher coming to Thailand in his twenties to live (like the OP). Good on you if you're contented and have all you reasonably need, not everyone will be in that fortunate position.

[paully]

4. Get out of TEFLing. It's not a long term plan. Even with years of experience, you may join a new school on the bottom salary. The same as a backpacker. Unfair but true.

Exactly, mark. Seconded.

[Loaded]

A short holiday in the UK last year dispelled any thoughts of ever returning home. Most people can't save money as it is constantly sucked from them through high taxes, costs of utilities, rents, food and transport. Most are depressed and worried about losing their job. Most of my male friends live with obese bitches that make their lives hell. And the weather is terrible.

Westerners are conditioned to think that the life I described above is normality and we should all be normal - no thanks. I love my life here.

OP

Get a degree online and then move out of Bangkok.

[stiggy]

Your 24, the experience you have now of different outlooks on life, exposure to ideas and nationalities is great.

Stop panicking, it's normal to look up and think negatively once in a while.All this get a skill now before your old crap. You can reinvent yourself at any time in life, those who disagree are often products of goverment or society conditioning.

Been to Australia or Canada yet ? Better outlook for work while having fun and deciding what you want to do.

A good friend felt the same, then went from construction in uk -Tefl -dive instructor- miner-adExecutive-currently training to be helicopter pilot in oz. (he's 31 now)

[skybluestu]

I came here aged 32 with a modest amount of savings behind me and now have a better quality of life than friends & colleagues of a similar age still in the UK.

I live in a 3-bedroom newly built house, drive a new car, pay hardly any tax, pay very little for electric/water/gas/telephone, have 13 weeks paid holiday per year, can have a nice night out for 1000baht etc and all this on about a third of what I used to earn.

With the greatest possible respect, skyblue, you don't sound like the average TEFL teacher coming to Thailand in his twenties to live (like the OP). Good on you if you're contented and have all you reasonably need, not everyone will be in that fortunate position.

I'm not so sure there is an 'average' TEFL teacher. Sure there are those that do it as part of a gap year while in their late teens or twenties but there are also those that do it later in life for a life change, cultural experience or volunteering. There are those that end up doing it by accident to extend their stay and while some do it as a career change with long-term plans there are also those who only plan to do it short-term. And lets not forget the retirees who are doing it to supplement their retirement, to prevent boredom or to help a local school.

I thought I would teach for 1yr here in Thailand and then maybe move on to another country or even return home to the UK as my job was kept open for me but I'm still here over 4yrs later with a wife, baby daughter, house, car and even a dog! If people have some savings when they come then that obviously helps but it isn't necessary, the OP is just one example of a young Brit who can save more teaching here than he could do at home for reasons already mentioned. Whether here in Thailand or elsewhere, teaching English is a viable option for many people and shouldn't be looked down on so much by so many people. Despite the problems we all face there is still job satisfaction to be had and for those that stay teaching at the same school there is usually a yearly pay increase which, after 3-4yrs, can be quite a lot more than when they started.

[ludditeman]

A short holiday in the UK last year dispelled any thoughts of ever returning home. Most people can't save money as it is constantly sucked from them through high taxes, costs of utilities, rents, food and transport. Most are depressed and worried about losing their job. Most of my male friends live with obese bitches that make their lives hell. And the weather is terrible.

Westerners are conditioned to think that the life I described above is normality and we should all be normal - no thanks. I love my life here.

Please stop making me agree with you!

Misery has become the norm for most men living in the west.

Edited January 19, 2012 by ludditeman

[paully]

I love my life here.

Great, good on you.

[paully]

I'm not so sure there is an 'average' TEFL teacher.

Fair point, but, let's face it, most inexperienced TEFL teachers coming to Thailand in their 20s or 30s wouldn't be able to "drive a new car", would they. Particularly if they don't have a degree and don't come over with a dollop of savings to hand.

[silsburyhill]

Most of those I've met working in TEFL here are in it because they have no other viable option to sustain themselves or their Thai 'lifestyle'.

At your age, unless you are a committed teacher, go get another skill set (not on-line, looks naff on your future resume), or go teach in Korea. Big bucks.And it's still Asia, albeit colder climate, but nicest people.

Make up your mind soon as. Time's a'wasting.

[chiang mai]

I think the question the OP needs to answer is this:

You have two choices and your present leaning is towards staying in Thailand to study and teach versus returning to the UK to learn a trade or skill. If in say ten years your current choice turns sour and doesn't work out for whatever reason, can you recover and will your other current option still be possible? If the answer is no then you're putting all your eggs into one basket rather than giving yourself future options and that's risky.

[markg]

Most of those I've met working in TEFL here are in it because they have no other viable option to sustain themselves or their Thai 'lifestyle'.

At your age, unless you are a committed teacher, go get another skill set (not on-line, looks naff on your future resume), or go teach in Korea. Big bucks.And it's still Asia, albeit colder climate, but nicest people.

Make up your mind soon as. Time's a'wasting.

There is online and there is online. I have an online degree from a UK university. It was three years of extremely hard work, research, essays and a thesis. It's the exact same degree that you would get if you attended the university in person for 3 years EXCEPT i was also holding down a full time job here in Thailand too. Far from being looked down upon, the right sort of online degree is looked UP upon ! To do a full on degree whilst having a full time job is much harder than just doing one or the other ! Of course, some self accredited 'universities' will confer a 'degree' on you for doing minimal or even no work at all. I'm not talking about them. I did mine with Anglia Ruskin University in England which is a proper university. My degree certificate does not mention that it was done as either distance learning or online. If you've got the self-motivation, then i'd recommend it as a more cost effective way of getting a degree without the hassle of having to move back to the UK for 3 years. It sure aint for everyone though. The drop out rate was 40 or 50 percent with no refund.

[TomJoad]

My Advice: Stay here until you're sure what to do. Just don't be like a lot of long-term westerners and begin thinking because you're making more money than the Thai teachers (who work harder & longer hours than we do & put up with a lot more b.s. than we'll ever know), you're somehow more valuable or more talented. The truth is, we're taking advantage of an unfair situation and one of these days, the Thais are going to wise up and kick us out.

[JiveTalker]

Not many people in the UK can save what you are saving each month. If you enjoy teaching in general then perhaps it's time to find a better job. If not, save some money and move on once you graduate.

To those of you knocking on-line degrees, stop it. It is 2012 now. On-line degrees are as applicable and as valuable these days as any other degree. More and more young people are doing on-line degrees because of the reduced cost.

[SlyAnimal]

imo - move to somewhere else in Thailand and check out the teaching opportunities there instead. Now is the best time in your life to travel and experience something new and different.

Don't spend it dicking around in Bangkok, because Bangkok is just a huge, sprawling mass of people and not a particularly nice place to live.

Or, instead of trying somewhere else in Thailand, try somewhere else in the world. You could spend a year in south america, or somewhere else in Asia, or even in Europe or Africa. Travel the world, experience what it has to offer. You're only young once, when you get older you won't be able to pick up and move so easily because you'll have a wife and kids in tow.

You should be able to teach in England aswell, I have no idea what the jobs are like there, but in NZ there are tonnes of English language schools, and they want people who have experience teaching already, not just job blogs off the street.

As far as your retirement etc goes, save what you can, invest it. You don't have to save huge amounts each year so long as you start doing it at an early age. If you're planning on retiring in say Thailand or another country where the cost of living isn't too high, then what you're making a large amount at present, and saving a lot. Remember, each month you're saving around 2x what a Thai university graduate would make each month (and then their cost of living comes out of that). I'm pretty sure that if you continue at that rate, or even if you save half of that every month, you'll be sweet as for retirement, particularly if you invest it well so that it starts to earn a half decent return aswell.

Alternatively of course, work your arse off in the UK for the next 35 years, then come back to Thailand or South America or something to live out the sunset of your life in luxury. But imo just live the super relaxed world wandering lifestyle for now until you find a country which you love enough to settle down in (Or perhaps just where ever you find a nice girl to settle down with)