New Thai Minister Nalinee On US Blacklist

[wolf5370]

The US should return to what its forefathers preached/taught

Keep their long nose out of others business & do not go abroad in search of monsters.

Sanctions like those against Cuba for instance are silly & long overdue for a change.

US citizens not allowed to buy some product because their government has a decades old beef

with someone is silly.

Now we extend that silliness to folks who are not even US citizens & blacklist them?

insanity has no limits in these cases.

Before the usual suspects chime in with anti-USA rhetoric........

Let me say I am as patriotic a person as you will find.

I live in the USA & am proud of our heritage.

I like the fact we are a Constitutional Republic & hope we keep it

that way by protecting what out founders laid out.

These days it is changing fast as we slip down a slippery slope

Yes that worked out wondefully for Rowanda didn't it - so, lets sit back and let these dispots commit genocide and mass murder, hey it not our lads and lasses is it? If you like the USA and are proud of it's heritage, then you should be appauled by the sentiment in what you wrote. Shame on you.

There are times when intervention is questionable - when it leaves the people in a worse state than they had before - when money or oil is involved inparticular. However, there are people in this world, so called leaders, who are deadly - dangerous - and really need to be removed. The powerful have an obligation to protect the weak, wherever they are, and however unappreciated it is. The fact that Britain took up sword against the mighty German Axis as it cut a swathe through Europe is morally just, brave and laudable. That the USA helped, and evetually took up arms when an attack came (Lucitania or Pearl Harbour) is likewise laudable. How much better would it have been for 6 million Jews and 10 million Russian if Hitler had been clamped down upon early and forced from office (with a good carrot and stick approach), if Pol Pot had been removed before the mountains of skulls, Idi Armin, Mao Zedong, the list goes on. War is what happens eventually (or genocide if completely ignored - Rowanda), when we are forced to act - by using sanctions and embargos and penalising those that break them using fiscal means (i.e. you deal with those we have sanctions against, you lose the right to deal with us in any way) and making them unwelcome, is the unbloodiest of all measures and avert wars and genocides.

So, be proud of your country (and those like it) in this regard, because the leaders there DO think about these things, DO weigh up the issues and DO act in a morally just and non-selfish way sometimes and those times should honour you - not fail you.

Edited January 19, 2012 by wolf5370

[diehard60]

She didn't violate Thai law, so technically it's ok. But I think her reputation will have a negative effect. And everyone accused is always innocent! What do you expect from a party that lets a fugitive hold campaign rallies?

Not much different from what you are suggesting and what the yellow shirts have done in the past.

[AleG]

Might have been a better idea to appoint someone a trade minister who was acceptable to all nations. Maybe the Thai government feels trade with the US will not be so important as they will likely be buying their hom mali rice from VietNam from now on? And on the plus side her Zimbabwean connections could help any Thais who wish to develop business interests there.

Thais having business interests in Zimbabwe? How ridiculous!

Oh, wait...

Thaksin bought mines valued in the billions in Zimbabwe. I guess the new Trade Minister having links to Mugabe is a mere coincidence but how convenient!

Incidentally, wouldn't Thaksin's dealings in Zimbabwe also place him in this blacklist?

[khunken]

The US should return to what its forefathers preached/taught

Keep their long nose out of others business & do not go abroad in search of monsters.

Sanctions like those against Cuba for instance are silly & long overdue for a change.

US citizens not allowed to buy some product because their government has a decades old beef

with someone is silly.

Now we extend that silliness to folks who are not even US citizens & blacklist them?

insanity has no limits in these cases.

Before the usual suspects chime in with anti-USA rhetoric........

Let me say I am as patriotic a person as you will find.

I live in the USA & am proud of our heritage.

I like the fact we are a Constitutional Republic & hope we keep it

that way by protecting what out founders laid out.

These days it is changing fast as we slip down a slippery slope

Yes that worked out wondefully for Rowanda didn't it - so, lets sit back and let these dispots commit genocide and mass murder, hey it not our lads and lasses is it? If you like the USA and are proud of it's heritage, then you should be appauled by the sentiment in what you wrote. Shame on you.

There are times when intervention is questionable - when it leaves the people in a worse state than they had before - when money or oil is involved inparticular. However, there are people in this world, so called leaders, who are deadly - dangerous - and really need to be removed. The powerful have an obligation to protect the weak, wherever they are, and however unappreciated it is. The fact that Britain took up sword against the mighty German Axis as it cut a swathe through Europe is morally just, brave and laudable. That the USA helped, and evetually took up arms when an attack came (Lucitania or Pearl Harbour) is likewise laudable. How much better would it have been for 6 million Jews and 10 million Russian if Hitler had been clamped down upon early and forced from office (with a good carrot and stick approach), if Pol Pot had been removed before the mountains of skulls, Idi Armin, Mao Zedong, the list goes on. War is what happens eventually (or genocide if completely ignored - Rowanda), when we are forced to act - by using sanctions and embargos and penalising those that break them using fiscal means (i.e. you deal with those we have sanctions against, you lose the right to deal with us in any way) and making them unwelcome, is the unbloodiest of all measures and avert wars and genocides.

So, be proud of your country (and those like it) in this regard, because the leaders there DO think about these things, DO weigh up the issues and DO act in a morally just and non-selfish way sometimes and those times should honour you - not fail you.

The problem with what you say is that it is not consistant. Mubarak, Ali (Tunisia), Musharraf have all been supported by the US in recent years. Plus the US's blind support for Israel, which has a far worse human rights record than Zimbawbe, demonstrates that the US is highly selective in who it sanctions. Since WWII the US has had an appalling record of supporting (& even installing) dictators.

I do agree however that sanctions are far more preferable to invasions (i.e.warmongering). Maybe it's time for Thailand to set up a sanctioning body & put on it a few famous people with a lot of blood on their hands.

[Oberkommando]

Moneyed Thai in immoral, dubious and possibly corrupt dealings overseas non-shock.

Nauseating people.

[bumpkin]

When it comes to appointing members of the government, we might feel some sympathy for the Prime Minister.

It is possible that the Prime Minisiter has a meagre and uninspiring list of talent to draw from.

[Old Man River]

The US should return to what its forefathers preached/taught

Keep their long nose out of others business & do not go abroad in search of monsters.

Sanctions like those against Cuba for instance are silly & long overdue for a change.

US citizens not allowed to buy some product because their government has a decades old beef

with someone is silly.

Now we extend that silliness to folks who are not even US citizens & blacklist them?

insanity has no limits in these cases.

Before the usual suspects chime in with anti-USA rhetoric........

Let me say I am as patriotic a person as you will find.

I live in the USA & am proud of our heritage.

I like the fact we are a Constitutional Republic & hope we keep it

that way by protecting what out founders laid out.

These days it is changing fast as we slip down a slippery slope

Yes that worked out wondefully for Rowanda didn't it - so, lets sit back and let these dispots commit genocide and mass murder, hey it not our lads and lasses is it? If you like the USA and are proud of it's heritage, then you should be appauled by the sentiment in what you wrote. Shame on you.

There are times when intervention is questionable - when it leaves the people in a worse state than they had before - when money or oil is involved inparticular. However, there are people in this world, so called leaders, who are deadly - dangerous - and really need to be removed. The powerful have an obligation to protect the weak, wherever they are, and however unappreciated it is. The fact that Britain took up sword against the mighty German Axis as it cut a swathe through Europe is morally just, brave and laudable. That the USA helped, and evetually took up arms when an attack came (Lucitania or Pearl Harbour) is likewise laudable. How much better would it have been for 6 million Jews and 10 million Russian if Hitler had been clamped down upon early and forced from office (with a good carrot and stick approach), if Pol Pot had been removed before the mountains of skulls, Idi Armin, Mao Zedong, the list goes on. War is what happens eventually (or genocide if completely ignored - Rowanda), when we are forced to act - by using sanctions and embargos and penalising those that break them using fiscal means (i.e. you deal with those we have sanctions against, you lose the right to deal with us in any way) and making them unwelcome, is the unbloodiest of all measures and avert wars and genocides.

So, be proud of your country (and those like it) in this regard, because the leaders there DO think about these things, DO weigh up the issues and DO act in a morally just and non-selfish way sometimes and those times should honour you - not fail you.

A little over the top don't you think? Let's not forget it wasn't too long ago that we (proud Americans) were told pretty much the same about the military junta in Myanmar. Now, we are being told maybe they aren't that bad after all.

It is politics.

Joy facilitated a transaction (not my words). She was an agent to a transaction. She didn't own the items, nor did she buy them. We know who the owner was. Nobody is hiding that, but the US government is not blacklisting the buyer are they? Why not? It is politics. It was and always will be.

[SlyAnimal]

Blah blah blah.......... she didn't do anything illegal, all she did, was business with the wife of someone who America says is a bad man.

If you were a shop owner, and some big as mafia boss's wife came into your shop and wanted to buy something, would you turn her away because her husband is a "bad man"?

Or if you were looking for wealthy customers, and thought that the wife of a mafia boss might be interested in buying your goods, would you not contact them, and not do business with them?

Simply replace mafia boss, with African Dictator and you've got her situation.

[wintermute]

Blah blah blah.......... she didn't do anything illegal, all she did, was business with the wife of someone who America says is a bad man.

A bad man who is a known genocidal maniac who finances other terrorist regimes and keeps his country in near collapse to fuel his own lavish lifestyle. Anyone personally connected with this man is shady. This is especially true if you have a sidebusiness shuttling blood gems to and fro SE Asia (hub or organized crime) to a dictator. Being a part of the financial laundering pipeline is obvious complicity with high profile criminals.

[Old Man River]

Blah blah blah.......... she didn't do anything illegal, all she did, was business with the wife of someone who America says is a bad man.

If you were a shop owner, and some big as mafia boss's wife came into your shop and wanted to buy something, would you turn her away because her husband is a "bad man"?

Or if you were looking for wealthy customers, and thought that the wife of a mafia boss might be interested in buying your goods, would you not contact them, and not do business with them?

Simply replace mafia boss, with African Dictator and you've got her situation.

A little bit different of a situation, but at the end of the day we agree.

In this case, she didn't own the goods and she didn't buy them. The seller (dictator) is already blacklisted. As the agent, she has been blacklisted. The buyer has not been blacklisted. Why not? On the buy side, politically she was an easier target.

[Briggsy]

What exactly does a PM Office's Minister control?

[timewilltell]

The Zimbabwe investment could be a sucker move, as the mine could be taken over by 'the government' at some point, either by the current slime or a future version.

Quite true, only a fool would invest in Zimbabwe the government can sieze all your assets at a whim and there is nothing you can do about it. I am sure there are many expats who could tell a story or 2 about this.

The Thais can seize your assets on a whim too - especially property assets in which you may have a minority interest.

[Old Man River]

What exactly does a PM Office's Minister control?

Basically to do whatever the PM needs done by a trusted individual that doesn't fall specifically at the moment into another minister's portfolio, but probably will if it is deemed important enough at a later date.

OK, this doesn't make sense to me either. Give me another chance.

It is political payback for previous services rendered. Yeh, that is more like it.

[pastitche]

I don't see anything objectionable with this underworld crime figure being on a blacklist. The E.U. bans similar shady individuals so the crybaby whiners and bandwagon USA haters can get off the pram at the next elementary school stop so the grown ups can talk. The fact of the matter is Thailand is full of underworld crime figures and mafia types who are involved in all sorts of shady schemes abroad. The country is a well known crossroads for this sort of activity.

So what crimes has "this underworld committed" ? I am interested because I would like to be there when the grown ups talk

[antipodesant]

She didn't violate Thai law, so technically it's ok. But I think her reputation will have a negative effect. And everyone accused is always innocent! What do you expect from a party that lets a fugitive hold campaign rallies?

Tecnically it's OK "In Thailand" but we are talking about the US 'that is where she has been blacklisted and rightly so"

[wintermute]

I don't see anything objectionable with this underworld crime figure being on a blacklist. The E.U. bans similar shady individuals so the crybaby whiners and bandwagon USA haters can get off the pram at the next elementary school stop so the grown ups can talk. The fact of the matter is Thailand is full of underworld crime figures and mafia types who are involved in all sorts of shady schemes abroad. The country is a well known crossroads for this sort of activity.

So what crimes has "this underworld committed" ? I am interested because I would like to be there when the grown ups talk

Laundering money for a dictator through blood gems. Profiteering (albeit indirectly) off of genocide.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed, this topic is not about G.W. Bush or Bin Laden family.

Edit: Another off topic post has been removed.

[pastitche]

I don't see anything objectionable with this underworld crime figure being on a blacklist. The E.U. bans similar shady individuals so the crybaby whiners and bandwagon USA haters can get off the pram at the next elementary school stop so the grown ups can talk. The fact of the matter is Thailand is full of underworld crime figures and mafia types who are involved in all sorts of shady schemes abroad. The country is a well known crossroads for this sort of activity.

So what crimes has "this underworld committed" ? I am interested because I would like to be there when the grown ups talk

Laundering money for a dictator through blood gems. Profiteering (albeit indirectly) off of genocide.

I'm not sure that you can say she was laundering money since that implies an illegal activity; from what we have seen she facilitated a sale. That is not illegal although certainly distasteful, considering the seller. Are you really saying that she has committed a crime because she has transgressed some US prohibition?

[JohnAllan]

Well, if it is true - and I make no judgements - than should the UK - never mind the rest of Europe - not also blacklist Nalinee? Over to you, Your Excellency.

[scorecard]

By the way G'kid, whats' your opinion of Amsterdam?

i think he is a man with a track record of fighting for human rights and looking at the big picture.

The incident involving the allegations with Nalinee Taveesin will most likely cause him to blow a gasket. Mr. Amsterdam defended a UN official who took on Mugabe and was then harassed by the UN as a result. Amsterdam took the case pro bono when many law firms would not go near it for business reasons. It's a rather famous case that arose from the mishandling of the cholera epidemic. There is no love for Mugabe from Mr. Amsterdam.

Mr. Amsterdam is held in high regard by several reputable human rights and development groups that are apolitical in nature. That tells me something. If Mr. Amsterdam had not taken on Thaksin, I doubt he would be the object of scorn for many farangs of TVF.

So Minister Nalinee is on the blacklist while Thaksin runs mining concession in Zimbabwe and is defended by CFR's Amsterdam who compares Abhisit with Mugabe. It's getting more and more absurd.

Have you ever checked the connection of the human rights group associated to CFR? They've become pretty quiet all over the world, - no more credibility. Or maybe it needs a Bill Gates foundation to parade kids at gunpoint to get vaccination with hazardous components co-sponsored with Monsanto?

Dare to do a research of the Spanish flue which killed over 50 million people? Isn't it strange that only those who were vaccinated died? Guess who is behind all that ...

Follow the money trail and you shall find out ... Thaksin defended by lobbying with the CFR, setup by the same since decades and he's free to do what he's doing.

The American Embassy didn't even bother and moved out of their premises during the red shirt revolt without complaining. Why?

You need to dig a bit deeper ... The truth shall set you free ...

Please research the Spanish Flu, it actually started in the US and was transported to Europe on US troopships which when they arrived had more than 50 percent dead and sick. There was no vaccination at the time for that strain of flu as it was 1918. If you want to use something as a reference at least have your fact straight. The only reason it became know as the Spanish flu, Spain refused to censor the press as many countries did to cover up the scope of the sickness and the number of dead and sick.The Spanish newspapers plublished stories on the sick and dead and the full scope of the epidemic.

Dear g'kid, you wrote ".... Mr. Amsterdam is held in high regard by several reputable human rights and development groups that are apolitical in nature...."

PLease share the names of these organizations.

[djvolak]

The US should return to what its forefathers preached/taught

Keep their long nose out of others business & do not go abroad in search of monsters.

Sanctions like those against Cuba for instance are silly & long overdue for a change.

US citizens not allowed to buy some product because their government has a decades old beef

with someone is silly.

Now we extend that silliness to folks who are not even US citizens & blacklist them?

insanity has no limits in these cases.

Before the usual suspects chime in with anti-USA rhetoric........

Let me say I am as patriotic a person as you will find.

I live in the USA & am proud of our heritage.

I like the fact we are a Constitutional Republic & hope we keep it

that way by protecting what out founders laid out.

These days it is changing fast as we slip down a slippery slope

I am also a US citizen and agree 100%. These kind of policies just hurt the average person of a foreign country. Absurd!

add me too.

[MaiChai]

The Zimbabwe investment could be a sucker move, as the mine could be taken over by 'the government' at some point, either by the current slime or a future version.

Quite true, only a fool would invest in Zimbabwe the government can sieze all your assets at a whim and there is nothing you can do about it. I am sure there are many expats who could tell a story or 2 about this.

I remember a UK documentary on this. Some white farmers had their land seized by government thugs and I believe the farmers took the case to an African version of the European Court, and Zimbabwean government lost the case. I believe the farmers still didn't get their land back, and they lost family members to the thugs. What a nice country to do business with?

Edited January 19, 2012 by MaiChai

[soylentgreen]

US take her off blacklist and you can interview terror suspect.

What a bunch of American dupes you are, getting your knickers in a twist about a US blacklist. Try Reading Phil Agee on the CIAs Diry work in Afirca. Google Dr. Sidney Gottleib assassination attempt, etcetera. Talk about the Stepford Wives, your postings are absolute drivel. I expect you spend most of your "free time" watching CNN and reading teh washington post online. Try reading a book by Rodney Stich for a change.

[JSPS]

In this case, she didn't own the goods and she didn't buy them. The seller (dictator) is already blacklisted. As the agent, she has been blacklisted. The buyer has not been blacklisted. Why not? On the buy side, politically she was an easier target.

How do you know that the buyer was not blacklisted?

[Briggsy]

It seems a bit clumsy of the Shinawatra clan to promote this close associate and fixer to such a prominent public position, knowing she has this baggage. She could have been rewarded in many other ways, including financial compensation. In fact, she almost certainly has. It may be that she needs the intangible protection that having been a government minister affords in the Thai social hierarchy.

[Preman]

And so criminals go free...? She was selling Blood Diamonds... many of them.... but whats a few diamonds between 2 old ladies....

I am not sure you fully understand what your supporting.

While the US government may decide based on what they know not to do business with someone.

That in no way should infringe on the personal rights of its FREE citizens to go where they want & while in other countries buy what

they want period.....If it is against the law in THAT country then let THAT country arrest them.

If it is against the law to bring it back into THIS country & caught then again arrest them.

But...........

What is even far worse in this case is the US is charging a person of another country with an infraction of what THEY deem

wrong. Then to top it off they will freeze assets held by her legally in American financial institutions over it?

I would think more & more who see this will soon consider safer institutions to keep their assets.

I do not know of many countries that dictate to citizens of the world/ other countries what they can or cannot do in the world.

As long as it is not a direct attack on the USA

I do know that our Constitutional Republic was not designed with that in mind.

I dont see where the US has any charges against her, they have her on a blacklist, meaning she is not allowed to conduct business with US companies or enter the US, reason she was put on the blacklist was a good one, she was dealing with an oppressive regime.

She was supporting a regime that was depressing it's people, so the US put her on a black list, this does not mean they are going to hunt her down and arrest her. As for your thinking the US should mind it's own business, So I guess everyone should just ignore what is going on and mind their own business and then things like what went on in Cambodia and still going on in several African nations just keep on keeping on? That is what you are suggesting? Nobody should help the people that are suffering there, right this is what you are saying? Only look out for ourselves..Maybe the US should stop all of it's aid programs too. Wars start the US stays out right? This is what you want?

You saying that the USA Government itself has not supported oppressive regimes when it suits them?

Are you serious? Get your facts right. You think that it is OK for a country, state, government to support, oppress and interfere with other countries and even kill innocent citizens when they deem it appropriate? Yet, then point the finger at individuals and black ban them when they deem that appropriate?

Wow! You are living in fairyland.

[gleeglee]

I don't see anything objectionable with this underworld crime figure being on a blacklist. The E.U. bans similar shady individuals so the crybaby whiners and bandwagon USA haters can get off the pram at the next elementary school stop so the grown ups can talk. The fact of the matter is Thailand is full of underworld crime figures and mafia types who are involved in all sorts of shady schemes abroad. The country is a well known crossroads for this sort of activity.

So what crimes has "this underworld committed" ? I am interested because I would like to be there when the grown ups talk

Laundering money for a dictator through blood gems. Profiteering (albeit indirectly) off of genocide.

Is not Thailand the biggest export trading partner with the US, and do they not get special tax discounts on many many imported items, Seems to me that if the Americans want her out she will be gone,

[flying]

Is not Thailand the biggest export trading partner with the US, and do they not get special tax discounts on many many imported items, Seems to me that if the Americans want her out she will be gone,

I am not so sure & really hope that is not true....Because fair trade is a two way street & should not buy used as leverage to buy votes, decisions etc.

It appears to me Thailand & others are starting to decide to stand on their own two feet.

Today they announce they recognize Palestine as an independent state speaks volumes in that direction & good for them.

This makes 129 countries to do so.

It is well known that the USA stands with Israel almost alone against this & has tried to strong arm others into the same stance.

The fact Thailand voted their mind in this matter shows they have their own thoughts on the matter.

All countries need to also stand on their own too & not have their countries decisions for sale to others.

I think it is a good thing & am happy to see it.

Edited January 20, 2012 by flying

[metisdead]

Off topic conspiracy posts have been removed as well as replies.

[ajarnmark]

US blacklist? my back side... what the hell US blacklist has to do with other governments?

When did US actually learn a lesson from history of UK and Russia? or is it that all kingdoms (read super powers) are destined to be doomed due to their stupidity?