Massage-girls-get-unionised, Accuse Foreign Owner

[britmaveric]

Massage-girls-get-unionised: Accuse foreign owners of exploitation

The Thai massage centre on Third Road, was at the centre of an unusual row as 250 masseuses gathered there to protest the actions of their foreign boss. The girls were employees of the massage palace who were complaining about high handed and unfair practices by management.

Spokeswoman Ms Orawa- dee Saying, aged 45, explained that she had been sacked after objecting to what she claimed were scams to deprive her, and others, of their just desserts. For example, it had been agreed that salaries would be paid on the 2nd, 12th and 22nd of each month, but no cash had actually been forthcoming in the recent past. She also complained that customers’ tips, often given to girls after a rub down, were ignobly collected after each encounter and given to management.

Other masseuses then joined in and told reporters that some girls received a salary as low as 4,000 a month, whilst others were on a rate of pay of 70 baht per customer hour. They explained that these paltry sums were totally inadequate to pay their rent, feed their husbands or look after their children. The general outcry was that Thai women were being financially exploited by greedy foreigners who seemed to be above the law as long as they kept warm to certain officials.

The girls went on, in rhetorical style, to ask why City Hall did not have standards to prevent exploitation of Thais and prevent customers from being overcharged by seedy entrepreneurs in the resort as a whole. Ms Orawadee said she had no idea if this particular massage parlour had the right paperwork and certification to operate as a massage parlour and wondered if work permits had been obtained in accordance with regulations.

City Hall said it was a police and Labour Office responsibility to check work related documentation. The demonstration is believed to have been far the biggest in the resort’s history about unsatisfactory conditions of employment and its very uniqueness reflects the traditional weakness of organized labour in the resort. Eventually, the owner paid off the wages which the masseuses were demanding, but they in turn elected to finish at this particular pleasure palace in any case.

-Pattaya Today

2 Dec 2005

[patsfangr]

Whatever the industry, I am angered beyond words at those whose greed is so intense that they must exploit and abuse employees to further increase already acceptable levels of profit. It is that behavior that makes unions (which I despise nearly as much as greedy business owners) a necessary evil.

In this particular case, there's plenty of revenue available from this wonderful business to provide both a healthy profit for the owners, and a decent income for the lovely ladies!

[gburns57au]

The general outcry was that Thai women were being financially exploited by greedy foreigners who seemed to be above the law as long as they kept warm to certain officials.

sounds like someone from another thread...

[snoophound]

From where come the foreign owners???

Massage-girls-get-unionised: Accuse foreign owners of exploitation

The Thai massage centre on Third Road, was at the centre of an unusual row as 250 masseuses gathered there to protest the actions of their foreign boss. The girls were employees of the massage palace who were complaining about high handed and unfair practices by management.

Spokeswoman Ms Orawa- dee Saying, aged 45, explained that she had been sacked after objecting to what she claimed were scams to deprive her, and others, of their just desserts. For example, it had been agreed that salaries would be paid on the 2nd, 12th and 22nd of each month, but no cash had actually been forthcoming in the recent past. She also complained that customers’ tips, often given to girls after a rub down, were ignobly collected after each encounter and given to management.

Other masseuses then joined in and told reporters that some girls received a salary as low as 4,000 a month, whilst others were on a rate of pay of 70 baht per customer hour. They explained that these paltry sums were totally inadequate to pay their rent, feed their husbands or look after their children. The general outcry was that Thai women were being financially exploited by greedy foreigners who seemed to be above the law as long as they kept warm to certain officials.

The girls went on, in rhetorical style, to ask why City Hall did not have standards to prevent exploitation of Thais and prevent customers from being overcharged by seedy entrepreneurs in the resort as a whole. Ms Orawadee said she had no idea if this particular massage parlour had the right paperwork and certification to operate as a massage parlour and wondered if work permits had been obtained in accordance with regulations.

City Hall said it was a police and Labour Office responsibility to check work related documentation. The demonstration is believed to have been far the biggest in the resort’s history about unsatisfactory conditions of employment and its very uniqueness reflects the traditional weakness of organized labour in the resort. Eventually, the owner paid off the wages which the masseuses were demanding, but they in turn elected to finish at this particular pleasure palace in any case.

-Pattaya Today

2 Dec 2005

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sierra01]

Makes a change from Thai women exploiting farang I suppose.

[poppa]

They were moaning that the were paid as little as 70 baht per hour , they should tell that to the ladys on the building sites as they are on 180 baht a day for a 10 hour shift ,

[mijan24]

They were moaning that the were paid as little as 70 baht per hour , they should tell that to the ladys on the building sites as they are on 180 baht a day for a 10 hour shift ,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A very good point - What is the unionised rate per hour in the Thai Massage industry??

[mijan24]

Massage-girls-get-unionised: Accuse foreign owners of exploitation

The Thai massage centre on Third Road, was at the centre of an unusual row as 250 masseuses gathered there to protest the actions of their foreign boss.

This could be the tipping of the scales

Other masseuses then joined in and told reporters that some girls received a salary as low as 4,000 a month, whilst others were on a rate of pay of 70 baht per customer hour. They explained that these paltry sums were totally inadequate to pay their rent, feed their husbands or look after their children.

Yet room maids, factory workers, etc "survive" raise families ( I am not saying this is a good wage just stating facts of life in Thailand).

. Ms Orawadee said she had no idea if this particular massage parlour had the right paperwork and certification to operate as a massage parlour and

wondered if work permits had been obtained in accordance with regulations.

If the truth be known Ms Orawadee has no idea at all - it will look great on her "resume" Reason for leaving last place of employment - encouraged a strike and the entire work force to resign.

they in turn elected to finish at this particular pleasure palace in any case.

Thats much better now they have no income and with bills to pay no social security system - option starve or place oneself at the mercy of next Thai Massage King - who of course will be gentle and generous    and singing chuwit chuwit all the way to the withdrawal machine.-Pattaya Today

2 Dec 2005

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[poppa]

There isn't one , but the minimum wage is set at 186 baht a day ,

[mijan24]

There isn't one , but the minimum wage is set at 186 baht a day ,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poppa minimum wage differs in different parts of the country - I am led to believe.

Edited December 3, 2005 by mijan24

[Sel]

If we're talking about a proper thai massage then 70 baht per hour is fair.

In BKK for example a masseur normally gets between 40 to 50% of what the customer pays + tip if given. A typical massage (1hr) in the subhurbs ranges from 100 to 160 B.

For the more expensive places I don't know if this % stands

[MattFS218]

They were moaning that the were paid as little as 70 baht per hour , they should tell that to the ladys on the building sites as they are on 180 baht a day for a 10 hour shift ,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A masseur may only get 2 or fewer customers per day, making their daily wage only slightly higher than the building sites. Wo/man on the building sites also usually don't have to pay high rent or Cost of Living charges that massage girls have to pay.

Further, I'd question the accuracy of your 180 baht / day wage statistics for legally obtained labor jobs in current day Pattaya. Can you find a full-time house cleaner for under 4k baht/mo in Pattaya?

Matt

[MattFS218]

Oh yah, good for the girls for unionizing and standing up to their bosses! Now if someone could just start a bar-girl or ago-go bar union--we might be able out price much of the scum of Pattaya.

[mijan24]

Wo/man on the building sites also usually don't have to pay high rent or Cost of Living charges that massage girls have to pay.

Matt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Matt

Are you saying they pay high rents because of location (Pattaya) or because of life style?

Khon Kaen lower wages structures apply. Housemaid (hotel) 4000 per month average 26 days a month (working) = 153.85 baht a day.

Factory worker in Nonthburi has just moved up the scale 170+ to 180+ benefit of the doubt take the high end 185+ a day normally one day off per week = 4810 a month.

Lets not kid ourselves with tips many good massage employees pull more than 140 a day otherwise they move to a busier premises if they are not selected it is due to lack of proper know how, remember I am talking massage only -nued/narp entirely different scenario..

Thai massage @ 100/160 @ the local Wat yes - Massage house/parlour 200 standard charge 50/50 + tips sometimes shared sometime 100% to the employee.

Pattaya well say no more!!

Edited December 3, 2005 by mijan24

[icecubes]

Oh yah, good for the girls for unionizing and standing up to their bosses! Now if someone could just start a bar-girl or ago-go bar union--we might be able out price much of the scum of Pattaya.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello mat, are you still being a paper hat????

Ok Matt now I understand about tipping in Thailand.

The customer gives twice the amount say 500 baht !!!!!!

then the masseur and the boss split it,, nice little earner.

But some might be greedy and keep it all, naughty little boss man.

As for greedy foreigners , love that one ( not your words)

Never met a greedy local in pattaya ever.

Good for the girls for standing up for them selves.

if the boss was Thai it would not have happened that way….

Got any more good books on Thailand you wish make references from ????

Have a nice day

[Mighty Mouse]

This is what happens when massage girls get rubbed up the wrong way.

[galt67]

This episode shows one of the HUGE challenges a farang faces operating a business in Thailand--

I'll guarantee the 'authorities' ensures the owner pays up--WAY UP$$$$

[icecubes]

This is what happens when massage girls get rubbed up the wrong way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A little bit of friction never hurts

[poppa]

A masseur may only get 2 or fewer customers per day, making their daily wage only slightly higher than the building sites. Wo/man on the building sites also usually don't have to pay high rent or Cost of Living charges that massage girls have to pay.

Further, I'd question the accuracy of your 180 baht / day wage statistics for legally obtained labor jobs in current day Pattaya. Can you find a full-time house cleaner for under 4k baht/mo in Pattaya?

Matt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Matt , Thaskin set the minimum wage to 186 baht a day as he thought higher wages would take investment away from Thailand ( they asked for 235 baht a day )

you cannot find a full time house keeper for under 4 k because your a falang , but my T/G can get us one for 2,500 baht

and what in the world makes you think that a lady on a building site can live cheaper that a masseur , is it because there not so good looking , ( yes f#ck the ugly ones )

Please try and read news papers about Thailand ,before putting your half penny in , have a good day

[wilko]

Minimum wage in the factories around here is 23 baht per hour, there's a extra 5(?) baht for OT.Most people work 6 days a week and the result is about 5K per month...

But they don't have to get in a bath with a great fat wobbly farang!

[MattFS218]

Matt

Are you saying they pay high rents because of location (Pattaya) or because of life style?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because of location, Pattaya...the cost of living (ie food, rent, transportation) is significantly higher than up-country where a rice farmer gets paid 150 baht/day (4,500 baht/mo). This filters down into the cost you pay a service worker for a massage, a housekeeper, laundry service, etc.

icecubes-No, I don't own a Thai massage parlor, I am merely good friends with many of the girls at the one I frequent....you do a great disservice to them when you start spreading false information about Thai's tipping for a massage, and general wage levels in Pattaya. Many of these girls leave their families and children up-country so they can earn and send home just slightly more money than working at home.

Too often you hear farang (this isn't geared towards icecubes) gossiping about wage levels being under 4,000/month in Pattaya and it leads many to make conclusions about what to expect for leaving a 20 baht tip. No, you’re not Mr. Gates for giving a 20 baht tip for a meal or slipping your go-go bar friend a 100 baht note.

I've worked an administrative job on the industrial estates along with some brief experience at a top hotel in Pattaya. I've talked to and know HR managers and have a pretty good idea of what a practical wage is in Pattaya. It's not 4,000 baht/mo.

Oh yah, to be clear I'm referring to a traditional Thai massage (no sex)...dirty massage girls make 30+k baht/mo and deserve all of it for the disgust they have to deal with (my reference to unionizing ago-go bar girls).

I know very few countries where massage therapists make minimum wage.

[MattFS218]

Matt , Thaskin set the minimum wage to 186 baht a day as he thought higher wages would take investment away from Thailand ( they asked for 235 baht a day )

you cannot find a full time house keeper for under 4 k because your a falang , but my T/G can get us one for 2,500 baht

and what in the world makes you think that a lady on a building site can live cheaper that a masseur , is it because there not so good looking , ( yes f#ck the ugly ones )

Please try and read news papers about Thailand ,before putting your half penny in , have a good day

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

poppa--I am not farang and if you can find me a full-time house cleaner for 2,000 baht/month in Pattaya who isn't going to work for a week and then steel all my stuff, please give me his/her number.

Building site people usually have housing and don't pay anything for transportation. Most in Pattaya are Burmese and not Thai btw...and work (often illegally) for far less than a Thai.

[MattFS218]

Lets not kid ourselves with tips many good massage employees pull more than 140 a day otherwise they move to a busier premises if they are not selected it is due to lack of proper know how, remember I am talking massage only -nued/narp entirely different scenario..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I agree with you completely...I was trying to make the point to poppa that the wage level of a traditional Thai masseur isn't extraordinary high compared to building workers... and still certainly pennies compared to any industrialized nation.

poppa was making the unionized masseurs out to be a bunch of demanding laborers....

but according to icecubes, you shouldn't tip at all if you go a thai massage...meaning the masseurs should make less than building workers. (sorry moderators and others for letting the discussion of another thread spill over to this one).

[icecubes]

I am not farang and if you can find me a full-time house cleaner for 2,000 baht/month in Pattaya who isn't going to work for a week and then steel all my stuff, please give me his/her number.

Building site people usually have housing and don't pay anything for transportation. Most in Pattaya are Burmese and not Thai btw...and work (often illegally) for far less than a Thai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on Matt

Time to go back under the rock, your getting sun burnt.

[mijan24]

But they don't have to get in a bath with a great fat wobbly farang!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

50% of 1800/2000 not bad moola for taking a dip you even get to relax on a lie-low - christ all i got on a lie-low in Aust was sunburn.

Good to see the ladies standing up for their rights as long as they don't do themselves a dis-service along the way - was talking to an ex KK bar owner yesterday (he was visiting from "P") He has returned to "P" for business reasons (if you know what I mean) and the strike was a total news to him - so much for newspaper sensationalism

[poppa]

Building site people usually have housing and don't pay anything for transportation. Most in Pattaya are Burmese and not Thai btw...and work (often illegally) for far less than a Thai

so now your saying its alright for the Burmese to work for fork all , but not alright for the ladies who have to rub your body , wake up man

[MattFS218]

so now your saying its alright for the Burmese to work for fork all , but not alright for the ladies who have to rub your body , wake up man

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, I'm just saying you can't compare a building worker's wage to a massage girls because the qualifications and requirements are different.

It's similiar to the reason a westerner would never work for the wage of a Thai masseur. Just because a waitress in San Francisco makes 20 times what building workers in Pattaya make, doesn't mean you don't tip the worker in San Francisco.

Matt

[MattFS218]

I am not farang and if you can find me a full-time house cleaner for 2,000 baht/month in Pattaya who isn't going to work for a week and then steel all my stuff, please give me his/her number.

Building site people usually have housing and don't pay anything for transportation. Most in Pattaya are Burmese and not Thai btw...and work (often illegally) for far less than a Thai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on Matt

Time to go back under the rock, your getting sun burnt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

icecubes, I think you suffer from an altered virtual ego. I'd love to discuss all your complains about me, face-to-face over coffee. And since I know you’re a cheap charlie, I'll even pick up the bill. I'm upstairs at the Starbucks on beach road most days...come on by and lets chat.

I promise, I'm not intimidating, and won’t beat the shit out of you.

[yarpy]

So lets review:

There deal seemed pretty sweet compared to what a Thai massage parlour owner would subject them too but hey the owners falang so hes got to pay whatever they say.

They are now unemployed and will either starve or get a job with said Thai massage parlour owner as the jungle drums in Pattaya will have beaten and no falang will now employ any of them.

The falang massage parlour ower will have replaced all the girls is 2 seconds flat.

Wow top job.

[wilko]

So lets review:

There deal seemed pretty sweet compared to what a Thai massage parlour owner would subject them too but hey the owners falang so hes got to pay whatever they say.

They are now unemployed and will either starve or get a job with said Thai massage parlour owner as the jungle drums in Pattaya will have beaten and no falang will now employ any of them.

The falang massage parlour ower will have replaced all the girls is 2 seconds flat.

Wow top job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sure?how do you know?