Max Time On 6-Month Tourist Visa

[legendarysurfer]

I am recently retired (63yo) and finally about to make my move from Santa Barbara, USA to the Nong Bua Lamphu area in Isaan. My wife is already at our home in the village, caring for her parents.

I am unable to do a Retirement Visa (O-A) at the present time. Although we were married in the village and have a USA marriage license, we do not have a Thai marriage license.

So, for the immediate future, I am considering coming in on a 6 month validity, 2-to-4 entry tourist visa.

Jayenram wrote and Maestro edited the following pinned information:

6 month validity, 2 to 4 entry tourist visa: pre-obtained at a Royal Thai Embassy/Consulate and will result in the holder obtaining a 60 day 'permission to stay' stamp upon entry if from a 30 day visa exempt entry country... or 30 days if not. If required, this type of visa may normally be extended by 30 days at an immigration office, but after that time the holder must leave the country. The holder may then return to the Kingdom and will obtain a second 60 day 'permission to stay' stamp which can also be extended as previous and then the holder must leave. After the stipulated number of entries the visa is "used".

What I need to know is:

1) What is the maximum amount of time one can stay in Thailand on this 6-month tourist visa, considering extensions and re-entries. I'm not confident with my math on this.

2) Also, once the visa is used up, how much time will I need to stay out-of-country before I can apply for another 6-monther.

3) What are the differences between a Retirement Visa and a Marriage Visa?

My apologies ahead of time for those of you who know these answers like the back of your hand. I used to consider myself a smart person until I tried to figure out the Thai visa system.

[wayned]

1. With a six month triple entry tourist visa, you can stay in Thailand almost 270 days with rwo border runs to activate the second and third entry if you use the visa correctly. The visa is "a ticket to enter" Thailand and when you enter you are granted permission to stay. To achieve maximum time you should enter Thailand as soon after the visa is issued since the 6 month validity period starts the day the visa is issued. Upon entry you will be given 60 days permission to stay, near the end of the 60 days you can extend for another 30 days at immigration in Thailand - cost 1900 baht. On the last day of that extension you have to leave and re-enter. Upon entry you will be given 60 days permission to stay, near the end of the 60 days you can extend for another 30 days at immigration in Thailand - cost 1900 baht. Toward the end of that 30 days you must leave and re-enter. The trick is that you cannot wait until the last day of the "permission to stay" stamp in your passport, you must do it the day before the "must enter date" stamped on your VISA, as after that day your visa is expired! So the real control is how soon after your visa is issued that you enter Thailand, and proper use of your extensions and border runs. You can get 265 days+ with proper time management.

2. Once used, you can go to a consulate in a neighboring country and either apply for another tourist visa, best available at the monent is 3 month double entry. You could also apply for a Non-O visa to visit family. Single entry 90 day visas and multiple entry one year visas are currently available at different locations and diffierent financial requirements. The availabilty and requirements change often.

3. If you have a non-O visa, it can be extened in Thailand for either retirement or marriage purposes. The main difference is the financial requirement. For a marriage visa you either have to have 400000 baht in a Thai Bank in your name seasoned for 2 months (first time, 3 months for follow-on extensions) or an "Income Affidavit: from the US embassy stating that your are receiving at least 40000 baht/month income. For retirement these anuonts are 800000 baht and 65000 baht respectively. You can work on a marriage visa, but cannot with a retirement visa. There is less work required (paperwork BS) with a retirement extension so if you quailfy financially immigration will try to steer you in that direction.

Since you are American as am I, the "Income Affidavit" is a sworn notarized statement that you obtain at the embassy for a notary fee of $50. You do not have to have any supporting documentation, but mught require it at some immigration offices.

In addition, you could convert your Tourist visa to a Non-O , probably in Bangkok since you will be in Nong Bua Lamphu, for 2000 baht and then extend for either marriage or retirement without leaving Thaialnd. If using the bank deposit method, the money would not have to be seasoned to do the conversion, but would have to be to do the follow-on extension

The marriage or retirenet extensions are for one year but you still have to report your address at your "local: immigration office every 90 days but don't have to do border runs.

It sounds complicated, but it really isn't.

Good luck!

[NanLaew]

The OP would be able to file for visa extensions and possibly the T to Non-O conversion at the Udon Thani immigration office, about 45km from NBL.

Also note that once the OP did get some form of 1-year extension, he can still leave the country but would need to apply for a re-entry permit (single or multiple) at the Udon immigration office beforehand. Also note that the 90-day reporting would only apply if planning staying in Thailand for the whole year whereas leaving and re-entering the country on a re-entry permit would 'reset' the 90-day reporting count.

[lopburi3]

If you are married in US you are married and could obtain the non immigrant OA if wanted or easily obtain non immigrant O visa for entry. Did you actually marry or as you write only get a lisence to get married? If married that will work for visa issue and when you want to extend stay in Thailand you register that information with district office here after getting translated/chop from embassy and then from MFA here. No reason to fool around with tourist visas if married.

[legendarysurfer]

Thank you, wayned, NanLaew and lopburi3...

wayned, your explanation of the 6-month Tourist Visa was exactly what I needed to know and well written so that even I could understand it... NanLaew, I have a friend in UT who probably knows if I can do the conversion there... lopburi3, you hit the nail on the head. Here's the crux of the matter:

I am just under the threashold for a Retirement Visa based on pension/income. I don't have enough to tie-up approximately $26K USD in a Thai bank account. I need that money to make more money.

I DO have enough coming in to go for a Marriage Visa, based on pension/income, as well as 12 years documentation (if I had to go through the hassle) to show Thai family support at an approximate average of 20K THB/month.

However, my wife is paranoid that if the Thai government knew we were married it would somehow affect her land holdings (all of which I bought and do not hold title to -- she does). It seems to me to be an unfounded fear, but it is definitely there. I don't care. I never bought the land for myself. Mostly, I bought the land so that our Thai family could help bring themselves up out of share-cropping and into owning 100% of increased harvests of rice.

Understand, everyone in the village knows we're married. Half of them were at our ceremony in 2000!

Yes, we were legally married in the US.

Any advice? It sounds to me like I should just go for the Non-Immigrant O. Chances are, my wife wouldn't find out, anyway!

[wayned]

Your easiest and probably best option would be to apply for a Non-O in the US, having Thai family, and extending that in Thailand for marrisge. No border crossings required, omnly 90 days reports. It can be done by express mail. Recent reports indicate that the Honary Consulates in Houston and Portland are very friendly but you are close to LA. I lived in Oxnard for 10 years but used the Consulate in Vancouver when I came here, less hassle than finding the embassy in LA.

[JimGant]

Any advice? It sounds to me like I should just go for the Non-Immigrant O. Chances are, my wife wouldn't find out, anyway!

The tourist visa is definitely a non-starter, since you qualify for a Non Imm O visa, which gives you at least two advantages:

1. Cost wise, a multi-entry Non Imm costs $200 -- but a three-entry Tourist visa costs $120 initially, plus another ~$120 for two x 30 day extensions. And it only gets you about 9 months in Thailand -- while a multi-entry Non Imm will get you nearly 15 months in Thailand, by entering for the last time right before the one-year visa expiration date. Plus, you'll save two trips to Immigration for those 30-day extensions. Definitely no contest. (And, yes, a single entry Non Imm would be cheaper -- but this way you'll have nearly 15 months, not 3 months, to get everything in order for the subsequent 12-month extension.)

2. With the Non Imm O, you're one step ahead of the Tourist visa by eliminating the need to convert, which costs another 2000bt -- plus the potential requirement to get two income statements from the Embassy (one original needed for conversion, the second original for the subsequent 12-month extension -- this has happened at several Immigration offices).

You'll need a copy of your wife's Thai ID or Thai passport. And a copy of your US marriage license. Your best bet is dealing with an honorary consulate -- Houston and Portland both have proven track records -- and can be accomplished easily by mail. I wouldn't waste the time or energy visiting in-person the LA consulate.

Your wife's paranoia apparently dates to a decade or so ago, when, yes, if married to a farang, she couldn't own property. That rule is long gone. Also, by your getting a Non Imm O visa, this won't say anywhere on the stamp that it is issued due to marriage. It's plain vanilla, and could be issued under several criteria.

So, calm your wife down. But, I'd still try to do your subsequent one-year extension based on retirement, not marriage. Much less hassle -- plus your wife would have to accompany you to Immigration to get the marriage extension -- thus fanning any paranoia you haven't been able to squelch.

If, as you say, you have the income for a marriage extension (40k baht/mo), then you could do a combo retirement extension, whereby the income shortfall between retirement and marriage of 25k baht/mo (65k minus 40k).can be made-up with money in a Thai bank account, meaning only 300k baht vice 800k needed in the account.

And, in getting that income verified by the US Embassy -- they are essentially verifying your monthly cash flow, not necessarily pensions, social security and annuities. So, if you're self-annuitizing by, say, drawing down your IRA's, this is cricket in the eyes of the Embassy verification statement -- as least in my interpretation of "other sources." (See below for what the statement says.)

If you use Portland's honorary consulate, they have a website with all the contact info you need. And if Houston -- wayned's got a nice attachment with their contact info, which I'm sure he'll be happy to provide you.

[wayned]

Houston contact info:

Visa application procedures , Houston Texas.doc

[lopburi3]

The main point is your wife is wrong and that land ownership issues has long ago been resolved. There was never any such law. The only law was foreigners can not own land. But government policy was that as marriage property is joint property by law to avoid any issues not to register new land in a foreign wife name (they seldom found a problem with males because no name change). Land was always hers even in old system but new land could not be registered. Under current policy change new land can be obtained if she uses her own money (statement is made it is not joint marriage income being used). For the old land there should not ever be any issue - even if the current policy were to reverse.

That said I did change from marriage to retirement myself but is was more due to wife having difficulty making immigration trips as we get older than the ability to do with less paperwork - but as said it is less work/paper if affordable.

[bangkokburning]

I would just come over here on a TR 3x and then sort out your personal life. You can get a O/M in the region with a minimum of hassle or spend some time on TV and learn how to get an extention based on marriage or "retirement".

As a rough estimate you could strtch your visas (3) out about 7.5 months but that would include abt two weeks outside the country.

2+2+(outside 14 days)+2(returning day before visa expires)+1(extention)

Don't overthink it.

[lopburi3]

Actually with a 3 entry tourist visa valid for six months the stay could be almost 9 months with no days outside the country required (just two border crossings/return).

[legendarysurfer]

wayned, JimGrant, lopburi3 and bangkokburning... Thanks, guys. You've really helped make my decision easier and I feel more confident cuz I feel like I'm getting a handle on this. I've been a TV member for over a half a decade and never got into the in's and out's of the visa process cuz it was always so far away. Now it is right upon me, so I hafta learn it so I can make the most of it.

I'll apply at the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles, by mail, and go for the Non-O based on family reasons (marriage). If I don't get it, I can always do a TV with multiple entries and try again, in-country, for the Non-O marriage visa.

[wayned]

Shouldn't be a problem. Good luck!

[legendarysurfer]

Just got my Non-Immigrant "O" Visa based on marriage and want to thank you guys for all your help getting me to this point. Once I knew the in's and out's, it really wasn't a problem. Just give 'em everything they want and make sure it all checks out... See you in-country!