The Loss Of Status

[Maigo6]

If your circle of friends does not include people of a high moral, social and ethical fiber then I pity you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pudgi, why don't you introduce some of the guys to the Deputy Prime Minister, I'm sure if you told him they were friends of yours they would be instantly accepted by the Thai elite.

By the way do you think Politicians are high on the morals and ethics scale?

[ray23]

I've followed this thread with interest. Like many people I'm sure, I thought the original post came over as a bit stuck up and condescending.

After reading Pudgi's explanations, clarifications and the down right earnestness with which they were written, I came to realise that this was not the OP's intent at all.

Also, I found that most everything he was saying was true. The logic is faultless. If we all behave well and don't offend  the Thais, eventually we'll get more respect and maybe (don't hold your breath) accepted. I'm sure it would work if all farangs acted like this.

Trouble is, is that it rests on the premise that the individual cares what other individuals think.

Take that premise away and it all falls down like a fragile house of cards.

I remember a post of Pudgis on another thread; he was praised to high heaven over it by many people. It was very much like this one, but, the crux of it was, was that he was pissed off being lumped in with other types of farang and having Thais thinking the relationship with his wife was something that it wasn't.

I suspect that all his posts on this thread stem from the anguish he feels about this gross injustice.

I can sympathise with him, but, I can't empathise. Instead of trying to change the attitude of all farangs and then, eventually Thais, wouldn't a personal attitude change be easier?

After all, when it comes to love, other people's opinions shouldn't matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Sir Burr. It is nice to know that some people appreciate this topic, can grasp the point, and still make criticial remarks that don't require a personal jab.

I'm not trying to "change the attitudes of farang (or Thais)", I'm only trying to demonstrate that there are valid alternatives to the "farang stereotype" out there.

I do indeed feel a bit of anquish on my wife's behalf because it is grossly unfair that we need to "prove ourselves" every time we meet someone new. I'm sure many of you can relate similar encounters where you go through this little series of introductory questions that dance around the stereotype. It's definitely a pass/fail test too. Pass the test, and you're accepted as "not one of those farang/Thai couples"; fail the test and you'll be treated pleasantly enough, but you certainly won't be accepted (though you may never know what you're missing out on).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok I understand everything you are trying to say. Doesn't fit me not the stage of life where I am ,the country club life style simply is not me. If I wanted it I would make an effort to have it. Playing checkers with the hills tribe people sound more like me. I would love to hear there version of local history, now that would interest me.

The part I'm missing is where do you evaluate your information on farrangs those that live here or those that visit?

Please don't say both they are very different animals. The farrangs that I associate with don't spend thier days hanging out in bars. If they have Mia Mois or girl friends they sure don't show them off where thier wives can find out about it.

So where is your image coming from Nana?

As someone pointed out the guys you are addressing in this forum are generally good citizens. Some of them are in the working world here, some own busineses, some do volunteer work.

It is easy to understand your motivation you want something better then what you started with good for you. But what it seems to me that you are discounting is that there are those in life who have achieved those goals and no longer wish to participate in society as you do.

You are not wrong in wanting what you desire. Your not wrong in being happy at a dinner at a Country Club, yor not wrong in wanting to associate with CEO's. If that makes you happy then more power to you.

That being said if you have met a man who is content with his lot in life is he wrong for being content and enjoying the fruits of his labor?

Is it wrong for a man to stop off and enjoy his meal at the local Thai eatry?

Or stop and enjoy a drink his with friends, at a farrang pub or a Thai Bar?

Is it wrong for a man to enjoy a conversation with the local farmer about the cost of rice this year?

My enjoyment may come from attending a Thia festival, having friends over for dinner or a great bike ride with a group of people that I like.

You see nothing you do harms me in anyway. What I can't grasp in your thoughts is how do my activities in anyway harm you?

Another point that I'm having a hard time following in your thoughts that we should conduct ourselves better the the normal Thai. For what reason?

I didn't come here to live in my home country I came her to live in Thailand and if it is good enough for the Thais, why wouldn't be good enough for me?

You know people are just people no matter where you go, every small child is the same world over, it's society that changes everything. Each individual desires and approaches are different to some extent. Being different does not make you wrong, it does not make you a good or bad person it just makes you human.

If I can accept you and your drives, then why can't you except that I don't want the same things you do?

Edited December 9, 2005 by ray23

[rio666uk]

" We and our wives/gfs all have to deal with that, and sadly I dont think that will ever change. Unfortunately many of the farangs that complain about that also stereotype other farang/Thai couples as well."

Amen... and thats my problem with this thread, pudgi and mrs dont know bkkmadness and mrs situation.... and you both dont know me and my mrs situation.... and we dont know another guys situation... so on and so forth - we all judge and we all are going to be prejudged

as sad as it is - its human nature... no?

[Mighty Mouse]

Well, I'm sorry if you guys are so bitter and disillusioned that you feel threatened by any suggestion that you "better yourselves".  That sounds like a deep-seated emotional problem and I doubt even moving to Thailand has helped you escape your personal demons.

It's difficult not to verbally attack the smug, arrogant attitude that you have displayed throughout this thread.

You complain about the mud that has been thrown at you, but it is your barbed comments to others that has attracted it.

Comments such as this:

If your circle of friends does not include people of a high moral, social and ethical fiber then I pity you. You really should reconsider the criteria you use to decide whether or not someone should be your friend.

That quote epitomizes a person that is so wrapped up in his own perceived importance that he is totally devoid of any human character.

The reality of the matter is that you are nothing more than a humble school teacher with giant dreams of grandeur but I doubt that you possess an iota of ability to achieve any of your dreams on your own merit.

Brown nosing, social climbing and walking in the shadows of your socialite wife is not considered meritorious.

[Tippaporn]

Well, I've gotta say that this has been one of the more interesting reads I've had on TV. It has a little of everything; excellent topic, lots of great replys and viewpoints, in fact too many to list, and a good deal of emotional turbulance. Even a little humor thrown in here and there.

I know I'm jumping in a little late, but I can't help myself from contributing my perspective on this entire thread. After reading it in it's entirety (dam near kept me up all night) I hope I can add some clarity. Let the saga continue!

Let's see, we have Pudgy, fortunately or not, who obviously has good intentions at heart and one helluva strong voice. Gotta give him lots of credit for hanging in there; a courageous heart. Pudgy's main tenant is that the farang contingent in Thailand should take advantage of, nay, enthusiastically and fervently seize, the opportunity that exists here to create change for betterment, not just for oneself but for (Thai) society as a whole. Farang have been bestowed the gift of opportunity, via status, by our generous Thai hosts simply on the mere merit that we are farang. And, that it is a most precious gift that should not in any way be foolishly or trivially squandered. I believe that would be the essence of his theme.

Pudgy goes on to explain his reasoning, keying his rationale on the concept of a lose and open definition of status. He goes further to explain in great detail the importance of status (as per his personal interpretation of the term), and specifically how it could serve as a vital tool in his quest for personal and social change (betterment). He has experienced a remarkable transformation in his life, attributes his boon in great part to his newly acquired status, and proceeds to exhort that that which has obviously been so overwhelmingly good for him must, intrinsically, also be good for everyone else.

Pudgy's musings on the idea of personal betterment quite naturally extend to his fellow men. In his heart he would like all farang to experience the joyous metamorphosis which he has been blessed with. Like finding a great bargain he would like nothing better than to share it with all. He recognizes the personal advantages of taking his chosen road and entertains thoughts of where it could all ultimately lead, especially if others would join him, as the belief in having greater numbers in the pursuit and attainment of a goal is a well accepted and entrenched concept within most people's minds. All for one and one for all!

Also recognized by Pudgy is the inexcusable folly in not taking that road. Folly which seems tantamount to irresponsibility. Having observed others it has become apparent to Pudgy that many, having been blessed with this same opportunity, have not, inconceivably, rushed to claim their gift. To the contrary, a significant number seem to have frittered it away on lowly, meaningless, senseless, impulsive, and quite unworthy pursuits. Not only are their choices incomprehensible and rather reprehensible to Pudgy, there appears to exist an inherent danger within them; their actions may have the ultimate, worse-case effect of relegating Pudgy back to where he came from. A fearful shame! Though, the greater shame would lay in the forfeiture of a dream, and fancifully, idealistically a collective one at that. We, together, can change the world (or rather our adoptive home of Thailand).

Enter the many wonderful respondents (Mighty Mouse being my personal favorite), sharing their interpretations of, viewpoints on and providing counterpoints to Pudgy's little thesis, at times rather indignantly. For the greater part it is an exceptionally astute audience, not at all predisposed to mincing words; an audience which also contains many strong voices. Pudgy's words and ideas are quickly put under the microscope and just as rapidly dissected. Few times have I witnessed such a furious flurry of postings!

Pudgy is then mercilessly taken to task, justifiably or not; justifiably more often than not, so it appears by majority consensus. A supreme effort in posturing, redefining and clarifying is made, with little resulting success in swaying the greater readership's opinions. More often than not Pudgy is seen as being judgemental and possessing an aspiration to an ideal (status) that is at best slightly wayward. What an entertaining and provocative read!

Well, perhaps I've presented an accurate synopsis; perhaps not. So allow me to now offer my own opinions and perspectives, and put some questions to Pudgy (if he's still around and not burnt out on his topic).

As for opportunity, in the sense of personal achievement, it exists in every corner of the globe. You are never denied to be all that you can be on the basis of geography. Are some places more conducive to manifesting opportunity? It all depends on your particular beliefs. If you have a desire to achieve yet feel that you could never amount to much in the States, for instance, then you have two options; change your feelings about your ability to achieve in your present location or move somewhere where those feelings either do not exist or are sufficiently subdued so as not to interfere with your desire.

As for status, let's take a look at the meaning term first. I believe the following is the definition of the word which comes foremost to people's minds:

1 rating or positioning in relation to others (as in a social order, community, class, or profession) <his status as a slave>

Synonyms capacity, character, footing, place, position, quality, rank, situation, standing, state, station

and

2 social or professional importance or distinction <a lawyer of international status>

Synonyms cachet, consequence, dignity, position, prestige, rank, standing, state, stature

Related Word caliber, merit, worth; distinction, renown; eminence, prominence

Contrasted Words inconsequence, insignificance, unimportance

By and large the word has a distinct meaning implying a pecking order. Pecking orders are generally defined by someone or other, based on personal significances, and largely assigned to others. Given that definition, there are a great number of people (as profusely expressed on this forum) who inherently understand their self-worth, are not doubtful of it, and have no need to have their self-worth acknowledged by any other as they are so absolutely secure within it.

Furthermore, these same people have an innate understanding of the worth of all others, from which comes naturally their respect for all others. And they no doubt understand the motives of people who wish to have others believe that they have more worth and others have less.

Status, as this definition implies, is a purely manufactured state of being, not at all a natural one. And so, it is understandable that many people pay little attention to that plastic state and can only inwardly sigh when confronted with people who place a great deal of value in such an empty and artificial concept.

Status is a game that is played by some to serve their own ends. It is contrived for that purpose alone. For many it is simply a method of getting what they want; these people do not understand that they can have what they want without resorting to this method.

For people who understand their own self-worth and the self-worth of others they find the use of status as a denigration; status serves only to strip some of self-worth while inflating the self-worth of others.

If you want to define the word using synonyms such as consequence, dignity, capacity, character then you must become aware that only you can judge yourself as to whether or not you, or your life, has meaningful consequence. You either feel dignified or not. You believe in your capacity or not. You believe that you possess character or not. These things you can only give yourself. Do not wait for others to bestow them onto you because they can't; they don't have the power one way or the other. And if you depend on others to value you then I'm afraid you have huge problems.

The true definition of humbleness is knowing that no one is better than you and that you are no better than anyone else.

Now, I have to quote you here:

What you can do is change from just another nameless, faceless cubicle warrior into a man (or woman) of consequence. You can MATTER here. Doesn't that interest any of you?

If you see yourself as a nameless, faceless cubicle warrior then so you are. You have judged yourself and cannot blame others for your own self-imposed feelings. Is your life consequential? Again, who is doing the judging? Innately you are consequential regardless of anything. You have value, whether others can see it or not. Therefore you do matter. It's obvious you haven't realized that, otherwise you would not have written what you did.

As to your path here in this world, follow those which give you joy. Allow others to do the same, and do not concern yourself with understanding their particular choices. You can't. We are all absolutely unique and endowed with individual preferences. Do not be shocked if others have no interest in traveling your road. You do not need others to join you in achieving anything you want; you will naturally be attracted to those who do want to travel with you and they to you. You'll always find people who want to play with you, or dance with you, to the tune that is harmonious to each. Why attempt to drag someone to the dance floor when they enjoy to waltz while you enjoy break dancing; they prefer opera as opposed to the rap you so much enjoy? Or are you afraid that, conversely, someone else as the ability, the power, to drag you onto the dance floor against your will?

As to changing, or influencing, our dear Thai hosts, my question is: "What on earth for?" Would you like everyone, again, to travel your road? The more pointed question would be, do you need everyone to travel your road? And if so, for what purpose? In order to get what you want? What would you change this country to? Would you desire to make everything fall in line with your personal preferences? Would you deny others theirs? Is this country so small, or the world for that matter, that no two people can find within it that which they want? It must be one way or the other? One thing or the other? Do you wish to strip the world of diversity?

Thailand, as a country, is unique onto this world, just as each individual is. Anything you can find in Thailand you can find anywhere else on the globe; if not the precise form then at least the essence of it, which is all that truly matters. Yet as the ingredients required to make an apple pie differ greatly from the ingredients necessary to make chili con carne so Thailand is a mixture of ingredients that is to be found nowhere else on the planet. And the flavor for many is unbelievably scrumptious.

In Thailand, do you want to be a prominent and successful businessman, wielding all sorts of imaginary influence, enjoying the hi-so life? Do you want to be a beachbum and barfly, changing girlfriends as often as the wind changes direction in Chicago, drunk on your arse night in and night out? Do you want to be a retiree, with the grass growing under your feet, savouring life to it's fullest in simple form or not, without the slightest urge to make justification as to whether or not what you do is considered to be productive by anyone elses standards? Do you want to be a family man living up country in some remote and dusty Isaan village with a wife of "no consequence" and yet possessing a heart worth more than all the tea in China? The answer to these questions lies in each individual's heart. And the truth of the matter is that there isn't an ounce of waste to any one choice. It all matters, it is all consequential, even though the significance may only be apparent to the individual.

But it's all here, now. As diversified as the choices may be, or can be, it's all here. Pick and choose what you want. No one can keep you from having what you desire and vice versa. So there's no need to be so overly concerned with what others may choose for themselves. There's room aplenty.

How often have we all read on TV about people who's lives in Thailand are a combination of misery and helllll? Cursing and blaming everyone and everything except themselves. And those who wake up each and every morning blessing their God for the good fortune of being able to lead such a glorious life here? Cherishing each and every morsel of precious Thai experience. What gives???? Dam, it's all a matter of choice. People pick and choose constantly, all of their lives, whether they're aware that they do so or not. And it's precisely those choices that determine the extent of your experience.

You have much to learn, Pudgy. Mai pen rai. There isn't a soul out there who isn't in the same boat in one area or another. Most of all me!

Edited December 9, 2005 by Tippaporn

[bkkmadness]

That quote epitomizes a person that is so wrapped up in his own perceived importance that he is totally devoid of any human character.

Mighty Mouse, you can see that from Pudgies first post in which he said:

But because I'm a farang, I'm automatically accorded the same status that would be given to the highest of the hi-so.

To think that you are at the highest end of Thai society (along with the family that we are not allowed to mention here), the very top end of it, and have the same status as those people because you are white skinned and foreign is unbelievable, and simply not true.

Edited December 9, 2005 by bkkmadness

[britmaveric]

Well done Tippaporn - perhaps the best post in the entire thread including the OP. I commend you for such a worthy response. (most likely fall on death ears with Pudgi, but never the less well done)

Edited December 9, 2005 by britmaveric

[think_too_mut]

But it's all here, now.  As diversified as the choices may be, or can be, it's all here.  Pick and choose what you want.  No one can keep you from having what you desire and vice versa.  So there's no need to be so overly concerned with what others may choose for themselves.  There's room aplenty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you talking US, Canada, Australia? The places where one can come with a suitcase and 5K US$ savings and make their way up, using only their biz abilities?

[Maigo6]

You have much to learn, Pudgy.  Mai pen rai.  There isn't a soul out there who isn't in the same boat in one area or another.  Most of all me! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good post Tippaporn.

[Tippaporn]

But it's all here, now.  As diversified as the choices may be, or can be, it's all here.  Pick and choose what you want.  No one can keep you from having what you desire and vice versa.  So there's no need to be so overly concerned with what others may choose for themselves.  There's room aplenty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you talking US, Canada, Australia? The places where one can come with a suitcase and 5K US$ savings and make their way up, using only their biz abilities?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rags to riches stories abound in every country. You'll never run out of evidence of the fact that you can achieve anything anywhere, even with less than a suitcase and $5K. You either have ideas that prevent you from attaining what you want or allow yourself to entertain thoughts that allow it.

Someone may think: $5K is nothing in the U.S. It's simply not enough to get ahead. Another will see it as more than enough. You should ask yourself where your thoughts lie on the subject.

How many foreigners have emigrated to the U.S. with nothing but a suitcase and live unimaginable lives of financial abundance? They represent all "the little trains that could."

It's no doubt easier on the brain when you come to Thailand and you see that your $5k can be stretched immeasurably. All of a sudden you begin to think that you do, in fact, have enough. That's the difference: you now believe that you can!

[think_too_mut]

But it's all here, now.  As diversified as the choices may be, or can be, it's all here.  Pick and choose what you want.  No one can keep you from having what you desire and vice versa.  So there's no need to be so overly concerned with what others may choose for themselves.  There's room aplenty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you talking US, Canada, Australia? The places where one can come with a suitcase and 5K US$ savings and make their way up, using only their biz abilities?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rags to riches stories abound in every country. You'll never run out of evidence of the fact that you can achieve anything anywhere, even with less than a suitcase and $5K. You either have ideas that prevent you from attaining what you want or allow yourself to entertain thoughts that allow it.

Someone may think: $5K is nothing in the U.S. It's simply not enough to get ahead. Another will see it as more than enough. You should ask yourself where your thoughts lie on the subject.

How many foreigners have emigrated to the U.S. with nothing but a suitcase and live unimaginable lives of financial abundance? They represent all "the little trains that could."

It's no doubt easier on the brain when you come to Thailand and you see that your $5k can be stretched immeasurably. All of a sudden you begin to think that you do, in fact, have enough. That's the difference: you now believe that you can!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I came to Oz with just my personal affairs.

3 years later I bought an apartment with a stunning harbour views.

Knew nobody there, just work and did it well.

Could that have happened in Thailand?

[think_too_mut]

Someone may think: $5K is nothing in the U.S.  It's simply not enough to get ahead.  Another will see it as more than enough.  You should ask yourself where your thoughts lie on the subject.

It's no doubt easier on the brain when you come to Thailand and you see that your $5k can be stretched immeasurably.  All of a sudden you begin to think that you do, in fact, have enough.  That's the difference:  you now believe that you can!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you talking about?

There are countries that let the newcomers make their go.

Are you lining up Thailand with them?

[JRinger]

(quote: think too mut) I came to Oz with just my personal affairs.

3 years later I bought an apartment with a stunning harbour views.

Knew nobody there, just work and did it well.

Could that have happened in Thailand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...honestly? I seriously doubt it..

Edited December 9, 2005 by JRinger

[Tippaporn]

Well done Tippaporn - perhaps the best post in the entire thread including the OP. I commend you for such a worthy response. (most likely fall on death ears with Pudgi, but never the less well done)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have much to learn, Pudgy.  Mai pen rai.  There isn't a soul out there who isn't in the same boat in one area or another.  Most of all me! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good post Tippaporn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, britmaveric and Maigo6, but please, the accolades deserve to go to most of the posters here, including yourselves. I merely summarized and slightly reworded so much of the heartfelt and very true sentiment that has been expressed here.

I was hesitant about mentioning Mighty Mouse as my favorite poster only because there are so many excellent posters to choose from. Maybe it's because Mighty Mouse has always been a favorite cartoon character for me. He's no cartoon character here, though.

My hat's off to all of you! You've all kept me enthralled with your replies.

Gotta give Pudgy some leeway, though (alright, lots of leeway). He mentioned that he's depicted in his avatar. Looks rather like a youngun to me! That's not meant to be derogatory. Youth sometimes needs time to reflect.

[ray23]

You have much to learn, Pudgy.  Mai pen rai.  There isn't a soul out there who isn't in the same boat in one area or another.  Most of all me!  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good post Tippaporn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow I agree eloquent to say the least. Now this seems to be what Pudgy likes I have totaly missed getting him to hear the worth my simple words. If he misses on this one I would say that we are now beating a dead horse, and it ain't going to plow!

[bkkmadness]

A playboy, politician and very sucessful businessman wishing you a Merry Christmas!

[Sheryl]

Are you sure about the high status bestow on a Farang upon landing?

I'd guess most Thai people wai farang first because they expect the farang not to know

how to wai and is just showing them the welcoming spirit.

Kind of like Aloha in Hawaii, you know.

I guess based on a survey of one that is a fair conclusion.....the one being American? And we all know how good they are at working out foriegn cultures....

As for the Wai thing...is it not possible that different areas have different approaches?

Certainly there are people do not know or practice the finer points of social mores and manners in all countries.

The way I see it, for those of us who are American these days we'd best be on our most perfect behavior at all times...as we need to compensate for the ongoing disgraceful behavior of a certain Son-of-a- Bush which is a shame to us all.....

This aside, OP had a point. Another even more important point is that we are here as guests and should behave accordingly, case closed.

[britmaveric]

A playboy, politician and very sucessful businessman wishing you a Merry Christmas!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another respectable Thai - trying very hard to keep his other life a secret!!!!

The way I see it, for those of us who are American these days we'd best be on our most perfect behavior at all times...as we need to compensate for the ongoing disgraceful behavior of a certain Son-of-a- Bush which is a shame to us all.....

I take it you voted for him last election? Shame was already present far before he entered the scene!!!! (seriously politics has naught to do w/perception - make your own mark w/people around you on a daily basis - this is what matters, not some politician most will never meet)

Edited December 9, 2005 by britmaveric

[Ijustwannateach]

Where's that "eating popcorn" icon when you need it?

Very entertaining thread, all.

[bkkmadness]

Well done Tippaporn - perhaps the best post in the entire thread including the OP. I commend you for such a worthy response. (most likely fall on death ears with Pudgi, but never the less well done)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have much to learn, Pudgy.  Mai pen rai.  There isn't a soul out there who isn't in the same boat in one area or another.  Most of all me! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good post Tippaporn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, britmaveric and Maigo6, but please, the accolades deserve to go to most of the posters here, including yourselves. I merely summarized and slightly reworded so much of the heartfelt and very true sentiment that has been expressed here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be so humble after such a great post is a lesson that I hope is learned by Pudgie.

An excellent, thoughtful and perfectly articulate post Tippaporn, I have to join others by saying that I really enjoyed reading it.

[JRinger]

The way I see it, for those of us who are American these days we'd best be on our most perfect behavior at all times...as we need to compensate for the ongoing disgraceful behavior of a certain Son-of-a- Bush which is a shame to us all.....

This aside, OP had a point. Another even more important point is that we are here as guests and should behave accordingly, case closed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmmm...Wherever I go throughout the Kingdom I'm accused of being 'German', does this mean I can just be 'myself' or 'act' like an American? Do you really believe people know where you come from?

.....and..thank you Tippaporn for a very direct and honest contribution, I read it thrice, makes one feel humble, and also a thank you to all the other posters.

Edited December 9, 2005 by JRinger

[ray23]

A playboy, politician and very sucessful businessman wishing you a Merry Christmas!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice photo what was the topic again Oh Ya Pudgy going to get you

[ray23]

The way I see it, for those of us who are American these days we'd best be on our most perfect behavior at all times...as we need to compensate for the ongoing disgraceful behavior of a certain Son-of-a- Bush which is a shame to us all.....

This aside, OP had a point. Another even more important point is that we are here as guests and should behave accordingly, case closed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmmm...Wherever I go throughout the Kingdom I'm accused of being 'German', does this mean I can just be 'myself' or 'act' like an American? Do you really believe people know where you come from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok so someone mentioned politics don't stop the thread I'm really curious have far this can go

[Sheryl]

The way I see it, for those of us who are American these days we'd best be on our most perfect behavior at all times...as we need to compensate for the ongoing disgraceful behavior of a certain Son-of-a- Bush which is a shame to us all.....

I take it you voted for him last election? Shame was already present far before he entered the scene!!!! (seriously politics has naught to do w/perception - make your own mark w/people around you on a daily basis - this is what matters, not some politician most will never meet)

yeah there was some shame -- what country is without it? -- but nothing like what this moronic pharisee has brought us. (and by "us" I mean both Americansd and the human species in general....a serious disgrace to our DNA). I expected the worst from the day of its first "election" but it (I refuse to use personal pronoun for this evil beast) has managed to astound even I.

I agree, Thais are sensable enough to judge people on their own merits. And on the whole, being a highly individualistic westerner, I don't identify with the (mis)deeds of politicians..but this particular situation has gone far beyond the pale. Anyone who wants to make a quick buck, I think there's be a big market for T-shirts reading "Don't blame me, I'm a New Yorker" . I'd get in line to buy a few for sure.

[britmaveric]

Sheryl - nah Bush is alright I've met the man, I'd have a few pints with him any day. Now where were we......????

[bkkmadness]

Lets have no more bush bashing/loving or talk of politics on this excellent thread where it does seem we are getting somewhere with great post from both sides.

If we cannot moderate ourselves, the real mods will do it for us and that will result in closure of this thread and we'll all have to go back to discussing whether it is raining or not.

[Maigo6]

Lets have no more bush bashing/loving or talk of politics on this excellent thread

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good idea, it's a good thread.

[Tippaporn]

Someone may think: $5K is nothing in the U.S.  It's simply not enough to get ahead.  Another will see it as more than enough.  You should ask yourself where your thoughts lie on the subject.

It's no doubt easier on the brain when you come to Thailand and you see that your $5k can be stretched immeasurably.  All of a sudden you begin to think that you do, in fact, have enough.  That's the difference:  you now believe that you can!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you talking about?

There are countries that let the newcomers make their go.

Are you lining up Thailand with them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At the risk of creating controversy, and going off topic, my answer is most certainly. The proof is in the pudding. Who can deny the success of scores of farangs in Thailand, many who came with nothing; such as me. How can I deny my own achieved potential and argue for another's limitations. How often success is repeated is immaterial; the fact that it has been achieved at all is the only thing to know. But true success is not measured solely monetarily, rather in the degree of experienced happiness.

[britmaveric]

A poor man can be wealthy!!!!

[Jeff1]

Are you all still going on with this guy ? I think I started reading this a month ago

I should edit this but I need my post of the day . Carry on .