Schengen Visa For Tour Of Europe

[jehricaholic]

Hi Guys...

I'm hoping I can get a quick answer to this before the mods move this post to the ThaiVisa abyss.

I'm planning my itinerary for a multiple country Schengen trip and I'm wondering how strict the Immigration people are in regards to having a Schengen Visa from a country where you will not be staying for the majority of your trip. I am aware that you would normally get the Visa from the country where you will be spending most of your time, but you can also get it from the country of first arrival in the Schengen area if you will be spending equal amounts of time in all of the Schengen countries on your itinerary. Anyways, here's my plan:

- Obtain Schengen Visa from France

- 4 nights in France (first arrival point in EU)

- 4 nights in Portugal

- 2 nights in Germany

- 5 nights in Italy (depart EU)

Is this OK or are they so strict at Immigration that they will refuse entry? Do I need to add an additional day in France to even things up with Italy? Do they even care?

Please advise...

Many Thanks...

[WaywardWind]

You should have no problem for such a short trip, although that could depend on your nationality which you don't list. I have flown in and out of Europe many times in the past decade (on a US passport, wife on an Australian passport), always getting stamped in the country of arrival, traveling to other countries, and departing from a different country than arrival. Never bothered to apply for a Schengen visa, and was never even checked in any country after the initial arrival.

I have no idea if it is different for folks from countries other than US or Australia.

[jehricaholic]

You should have no problem for such a short trip, although that could depend on your nationality which you don't list. I have flown in and out of Europe many times in the past decade (on a US passport, wife on an Australian passport), always getting stamped in the country of arrival, traveling to other countries, and departing from a different country than arrival. Never bothered to apply for a Schengen visa, and was never even checked in any country after the initial arrival.

I have no idea if it is different for folks from countries other than US or Australia.

I am Canadian (no Visa required), but my travelling partner is Thai and needs the Visa

Edited January 21, 2012 by jehricaholic

[raro]

moved to the visa section where the experts on this hang out

[jehricaholic]

so where are the experts today?

[samsingsong]

I am British and my wife is Thai.

My wife was issued a Schengen visa by the French Embassy in Bangkok. We have made several trips to France in the past, but we have also made two trips (flights) just to Spain & back to the UK, without any problem.

The first Scehengen visa she was issued was just for one year. When we went back the next year she had been issued a 5 year UK visitors visa, and without it being asked for, the French Embassy issued a 4 year Schengen visa.

A word of warning though - the French Embassy kept ALL the document we submitted! When we went back to collect the passport we had to wait in line for an hour & a half . When we eventually reached the 'window' they just handed over the passport. I politely asked for the documentation we had provided and they just said 'No we keep that'. I had submitted some original documents, but with photocopies for them to keep - but they kept the lot. Tired and weary after the trip to Bangkok and the long wait, and with a line of about 50 people behind us, I didn't have the energy left to argue.

Now of course that I've just applied for my wife's UK Settlement visa I wish I had demanded the docs, which included a 10 year service letter from my wife's former employer in Bangkok (Fujitsu). Quite a valuable document to her.

I wonder if somehow we can get it back??? !!

[jehricaholic]

I am British and my wife is Thai.

My wife was issued a Schengen visa by the French Embassy in Bangkok. We have made several trips to France in the past, but we have also made two trips (flights) just to Spain & back to the UK, without any problem.

The first Scehengen visa she was issued was just for one year. When we went back the next year she had been issued a 5 year UK visitors visa, and without it being asked for, the French Embassy issued a 4 year Schengen visa.

A word of warning though - the French Embassy kept ALL the document we submitted! When we went back to collect the passport we had to wait in line for an hour & a half . When we eventually reached the 'window' they just handed over the passport. I politely asked for the documentation we had provided and they just said 'No we keep that'. I had submitted some original documents, but with photocopies for them to keep - but they kept the lot. Tired and weary after the trip to Bangkok and the long wait, and with a line of about 50 people behind us, I didn't have the energy left to argue.

Now of course that I've just applied for my wife's UK Settlement visa I wish I had demanded the docs, which included a 10 year service letter from my wife's former employer in Bangkok (Fujitsu). Quite a valuable document to her.

I wonder if somehow we can get it back??? !!

Thanks for the info, but I'm still waiting for an answer related to my OP

[KamnanT]

I can't comment on other Schengen countries but the French processing centre (TLSContact) advised a colleague's girlfriend in July last year that she should not submit her application there because her itinerary showed she would be spending more time in Italy than in France (2 more nights), even though her first entry in the Schengen zone would be France. She was advised that if she proceeded the French Embassy could reject her application on that basis and the application fee would be lost. They recommended she either apply at the Italian Embassy or modify her itinerary to spend more time in France. She opted for the latter option as the Italian Embassy in Bangkok has a reputation for being particularly rude to Thai applicants and very stingy with the period of stay granted. After getting another appointment with TLSContact 10 days later, she submitted an application with a revised itinerary and got the standard 3 month multi-entry Schengen visit visa.

Note that on her first visit to TLSContact, they returned the Schengen visa fee but kept the THB 1,200 TLSContact "surcharge" --- the cost of their advice, I suppose.

[alyx]

1) you are arriving at Roissy which iis your first port of entry: then you may apply at the French Visa department

2) Your maximum stay is four days, which is in France, yes 4 or 5 days do not really matter, then you may apply at the French Visa department

Conclusion: you MUST apply at the French Visa department

If you are told otherwise, then refer to the Schenghen rules

One word of caution though: you must have confirmed hotel reservations for the whole length of the trip, have financial means and prove that you do not intend to stay there ( meaning having ties to Thailand preventing you from not coming back such as a steady job, six month old bank account , ....)

As for TLS be aware that you may ask for an appointment to the department directly, as TLS are only gathering the documents , check they are complete, remit them to the concerned department, wait for the documents and stamped (or not) passport, receive them back and give it to you, but to some it is more convenient to treat with TLS as you might ask more information if needed

You have to register on their website, provide the details requested, choose a date for your appointment

Edited January 22, 2012 by alyx

[jehricaholic]

1) you are arriving at Roissy which iis your first port of entry: then you may apply at the French Visa department

2) Your maximum stay is four days, which is in France, yes 4 or 5 days do not really matter, then you may may apply at the French Visa department

Conclusion: you MUST apply at the French Visa department

If you are told otherwise, then refer to the Schenghen rules

One word of caution though: you must have confirmed hotel reservations for the whole length of the trip, have financial means and prove that you do not intend to stay there ( meaning having ties to Thailand preventing you from not coming back such as a steady job, six month old bank account , ....)

As for TLS be aware that you may ask for an appointment to the department directly, as TLS are only gathering the documents , check they are complete, remit them to the concerned department, wait for the documents and stamped (or not) passport

You have to register on their website, provide the details requested, choose a date for your appointment

I am Canadian but my Thai travelling partner is Thai and needs a Visa. He has his Visa appointment tomorrow (monday) but we haven't completely booked all our hotels thus far (most though). You'd think they'd catch on that people will just book anything quickly in order to get the Visa, cancel the reservations then spend quality time picking hotels once the Visa is secure.

Here is my revised itinerary, please comment if you think I don't need to worry:

Only our flight to/from EU has been booked

- Obtain Schengen Visa from France

- 4 nights in Paris, France (first arrival point in EU) - hotel confirmed

- 4 nights in Portugal - will stay with my UK Uncle at his seasonal home - have email correspondence

- 2 nights in Spain - hotel t.b.a before Visa app't

- 5 nights in Italy (Venice, Rome) - depart EU, hotels confirmed

Big Thanks!

[alyx]

BOOK THEM NOW

Last year I applied for my partner with the Uruguayan Embassy: they were such a pain in the neck, organisationwise, that I did eventually cancel the application, no fee had been paid yet ( not difficult to get but time consuming ), got the passport back

My point is that they WANT a confirmed hotel booked/paid and my understanding is that there were going to be some checking in Montevideo, after I had decided not to go ahead with the trip

I had booked through Expedia (I think) which allows changes of plans and immediately cancelled the booking, no harm done

I am not telling you to cheat, just try to get the hotels you like and if you are turned down or go to Pompei instead of Venice, then let it be.

As I understand you are going to apply with TLS so they are going to double check everything and they might advise you to come back once you have everything although they do not have the right to turn you down, it is not their role.

Edited January 22, 2012 by alyx

[alyx]

By the way if you go to Barcelona go the Axel

We spent a month at the Axel Buenos Aires last summer and it was worth the stay

Edited January 22, 2012 by alyx

[7by7]

so where are the experts today?

This forum is staffed by volunteers who willingly give their time to help.

I sincerely apologise that I, and other regular contributors to this forum, have lives outside the forum which meant that I did not see your post and immediately respond. I will quit my job and tell my wife I can no longer have a social life and also go without sleep so that I can, in future, stay chained to the computer to answer your questions immediately they are posted.........

NOT!!!!!

Thanks for the info, but I'm still waiting for an answer related to my OP

The answer to the question in your OP is that as France is the country you enter the Schengen area through then your friend obtains his visa from the French embassy in Bangkok. See their website for the details.

It does not matter how long you spend in each country.

[alyx]

I did find jehricaholic's small remarks amusing

I do not think that he was upset with the posters and, for that matter, the non posters.....

Mind you I would like to add a small precision: one may apply at the Embassy of the first point of entry or at the one most where most days are spent

Although this is clearly stated for the Schenghen's application, the stafff from some Embassies would prefer have one to apply at the one where the longest stay is intended

Edited January 22, 2012 by alyx

[7by7]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on him.

The actual rule is that if entering the Schengen area via one country but staying in another then you should apply to the country where you will be spending the majority of your time; but if touring you should apply to the county via which you first enter the area.

To be honest, though, as long as you have a valid Schengen visa it does not really matter, and if questioned simply say that your plans changed.

[alyx]

Correct on both counts

Lol (sorry, I don't have acces to smileys on the IPad )

[jehricaholic]

Thanks a lot guys... I do appreciate that (most of) you have lives outside of ThaiVisa but that you are a very helpful bunch. I knew I'd get some decent replies rather quickly (and the usual off-topic/put my 2 cents in replies). I've seen a similar question asked on a popular Visa-help website, and it has gotten 0 replies after being posted for 9 days, so I have sought help in the right place, here on ThaiVisa.

The Schengen 'thing' seems like it has a long way to go until people are comfortable using it. There is not even an authorized central website where one can get detailed information about how to apply (at least not readily found via Google).

Anyways, I'll stick with my itinerary below but will 'fudge' a hotel booking for Portugal as I don't have anything signed & sealed from my Uncle with regards to staying with him in Portugal:

- Obtain Schengen Visa from France

- 4 nights in Paris, France (first arrival point in EU) - hotel confirmed

- 4 nights in Portugal - will stay with my UK Uncle at his seasonal home, but will book/cancel a hotel for Visa app't purposes

- 2 nights in Spain - hotel t.b.a before Visa app't

- 5 nights in Italy (Venice, Rome) - depart EU, hotels confirmed

Thanks a bunch!

[KamnanT]

_{Again, from experience with TLSContact, you must have a confirmed hotel booking (or a residential address of friends/relations) for every single night on your proposed itinerary. If staying in a residence, you will need written invitation letters from the residents. And yes, you can make hotel reservations online and then cancel them once the visa has been issued.}

Edited January 22, 2012 by KamnanT

[theoldgit]

When I have applied for a Schengen Visa on behalf of my partner previously, and am not 100% sure where we will be staying, I do as KamnanT suggests and book high end hotels, like the Hilton, that require a credit card number to hold the room on a fully flexible basis, they don't charge the card unless you don't turn up by 18.00 on the day of arrival. When I have the visa I cancel the booking, I still book accomodation which can be shown to the IO at the border, though we have never been asked, as 7by7 says, plans change,

[beano2274]

I would apply for the visa at the French embassy but do not tell them about your acutal plans, get the flight confirmation and hotel bookings prepared and after obtaining the visa cancel them all, use booking.com for hotels.

I just applied for a Schengen for my wife at the Swiss Embassy, I put on the forms when we would arrive and depart Switzerland, however I also informed them that we would be going to the UK to visit my mother, so they deducted those dates from the validity of the visa, so now we will go on holiday for 11 days but my wife only can stay in Switzerland for 7 days, as we plan 4 days in the UK, dumb of me, next time gonna keep my big mouth shut and not give the real details.

Note - I did not apply she did, I just did the paperwork, stops confusion that might happen from my second paragraph.

Edited January 23, 2012 by beano2274

[samsingsong]

I am British and my wife is Thai.

My wife was issued a Schengen visa by the French Embassy in Bangkok. We have made several trips to France in the past, but we have also made two trips (flights) just to Spain & back to the UK, without any problem.

The first Scehengen visa she was issued was just for one year. When we went back the next year she had been issued a 5 year UK visitors visa, and without it being asked for, the French Embassy issued a 4 year Schengen visa.

A word of warning though - the French Embassy kept ALL the document we submitted! When we went back to collect the passport we had to wait in line for an hour & a half . When we eventually reached the 'window' they just handed over the passport. I politely asked for the documentation we had provided and they just said 'No we keep that'. I had submitted some original documents, but with photocopies for them to keep - but they kept the lot. Tired and weary after the trip to Bangkok and the long wait, and with a line of about 50 people behind us, I didn't have the energy left to argue.

Now of course that I've just applied for my wife's UK Settlement visa I wish I had demanded the docs, which included a 10 year service letter from my wife's former employer in Bangkok (Fujitsu). Quite a valuable document to her.

I wonder if somehow we can get it back??? !!

Thanks for the info, but I'm still waiting for an answer related to my OP

Sorry if you don't think my answer was related to your OP.

I thought by telling you that my wife's Schengen visa, issued by the French Embassy in Bangkok, which has allowed her two holidays in Spain (by air) without setting foot on French soil... might have been some help.

[alyx]

I think that the main difference between your case and the OP's one, is that they are not married, at best they are in a civil union, which, in France has no meaning , when it comes to evaluate whether a visa is granted or not, although it is better to state it.

[alyx]

In any case the OP has already applied....I hope it will turn up positive at the end of the week or next upon collection of his passport's partner

I also guess it went smoothly as I happened to be there this morning and there was no queue at all....mind you it is only January

[jehricaholic]

I can't comment on other Schengen countries but the French processing centre (TLSContact) advised a colleague's girlfriend in July last year that she should not submit her application there because her itinerary showed she would be spending more time in Italy than in France (2 more nights), even though her first entry in the Schengen zone would be France. She was advised that if she proceeded the French Embassy could reject her application on that basis and the application fee would be lost. They recommended she either apply at the Italian Embassy or modify her itinerary to spend more time in France. She opted for the latter option as the Italian Embassy in Bangkok has a reputation for being particularly rude to Thai applicants and very stingy with the period of stay granted. After getting another appointment with TLSContact 10 days later, she submitted an application with a revised itinerary and got the standard 3 month multi-entry Schengen visit visa.

Note that on her first visit to TLSContact, they returned the Schengen visa fee but kept the THB 1,200 TLSContact "surcharge" --- the cost of their advice, I suppose.

This advise was spot on!

My Thai travelling partner had his appointment first thing today at the TLS office in Bangkok (I stayed in Pattaya), they turned him away because his itinerary (as posted above) showed that he was staying 5 nights in Italy and only 4 nights in France. They told him to apply at the Italian Embassy.

All was not lost... The Italian Embassy has a 1-900 number for Thai Visa applications/appointments. He called them up and they said he could stop by today with his French Schengen application form (Italian form is different, you would think a Schengen form would be universal!). He went there but his appointment went not so smoothly, they asked him for the transportation booking to Italy (we have the booking for the flight home from Italy, but nothing has been booked between Schengen countries, and our arrival flight goes to France). Anyways, they then asked him how we were to arrive in Italy, and the confusion began with the misinterpretation of 'train' and 'plane'. Somehow the confusion was resolved and they accepted his application. Within a week we shall get a result.

TO BE CONTINUED!

[jehricaholic]

I think that the main difference between your case and the OP's one, is that they are not married, at best they are in a civil union, which, in France has no meaning , when it comes to evaluate whether a visa is granted or not, although it is better to state it.

We have a same sex marriage (via South Africa) not recognized in Thailand and he put his marital status as 'single' on the application. If asked by Visa, I am his BF. He is currently being sponsored to come to Canada with me, processing time is 22 months!

Edited January 23, 2012 by jehricaholic

[jehricaholic]

I am British and my wife is Thai.

My wife was issued a Schengen visa by the French Embassy in Bangkok. We have made several trips to France in the past, but we have also made two trips (flights) just to Spain & back to the UK, without any problem.

The first Scehengen visa she was issued was just for one year. When we went back the next year she had been issued a 5 year UK visitors visa, and without it being asked for, the French Embassy issued a 4 year Schengen visa.

A word of warning though - the French Embassy kept ALL the document we submitted! When we went back to collect the passport we had to wait in line for an hour & a half . When we eventually reached the 'window' they just handed over the passport. I politely asked for the documentation we had provided and they just said 'No we keep that'. I had submitted some original documents, but with photocopies for them to keep - but they kept the lot. Tired and weary after the trip to Bangkok and the long wait, and with a line of about 50 people behind us, I didn't have the energy left to argue.

Now of course that I've just applied for my wife's UK Settlement visa I wish I had demanded the docs, which included a 10 year service letter from my wife's former employer in Bangkok (Fujitsu). Quite a valuable document to her.

I wonder if somehow we can get it back??? !!

Thanks for the info, but I'm still waiting for an answer related to my OP

Sorry if you don't think my answer was related to your OP.

I thought by telling you that my wife's Schengen visa, issued by the French Embassy in Bangkok, which has allowed her two holidays in Spain (by air) without setting foot on French soil... might have been some help.

Judging by the experience today, you were lucky in getting both the appointment and the Visa. It also sounds like a big risk being refused entry into Spain at airport immigration.

[7by7]

Whilst all advice is, or should be, welcome and the OP can decide which is useful to him and which is not; I would like to point out that the OP is Canadian and so not an EU citizen. Therefore more evidence is required from his partner than would be required from the partner or spouse of a British citizen.

[jehricaholic]

I would apply for the visa at the French embassy but do not tell them about your acutal plans, get the flight confirmation and hotel bookings prepared and after obtaining the visa cancel them all, use booking.com for hotels.

I just applied for a Schengen for my wife at the Swiss Embassy, I put on the forms when we would arrive and depart Switzerland, however I also informed them that we would be going to the UK to visit my mother, so they deducted those dates from the validity of the visa, so now we will go on holiday for 11 days but my wife only can stay in Switzerland for 7 days, as we plan 4 days in the UK, dumb of me, next time gonna keep my big mouth shut and not give the real details.

Note - I did not apply she did, I just did the paperwork, stops confusion that might happen from my second paragraph.

Sounds like a plan for round 2 should this 'Italian' Visa be refused, I could apply at France or Portugal Embassies if I modify the itinerary giving France, Portugal and Italy 4 nights equally.

This Schengen thing sounds like a great process once the kinks are ironed out, but for now I'd have to say it kinda sucks, but still nowhere near as bad as Expats having to deal with Thai immigration

[jehricaholic]

Whilst all advice is, or should be, welcome and the OP can decide which is useful to him and which is not; I would like to point out that the OP is Canadian and so not an EU citizen. Therefore more evidence is required from his partner than would be required from the partner or spouse of a British citizen.

Does being a Brit really carry weight for EU/Schengen Visa purposes?

[beano2274]

I would apply for the visa at the French embassy but do not tell them about your acutal plans, get the flight confirmation and hotel bookings prepared and after obtaining the visa cancel them all, use booking.com for hotels.

I just applied for a Schengen for my wife at the Swiss Embassy, I put on the forms when we would arrive and depart Switzerland, however I also informed them that we would be going to the UK to visit my mother, so they deducted those dates from the validity of the visa, so now we will go on holiday for 11 days but my wife only can stay in Switzerland for 7 days, as we plan 4 days in the UK, dumb of me, next time gonna keep my big mouth shut and not give the real details.

Note - I did not apply she did, I just did the paperwork, stops confusion that might happen from my second paragraph.

Sounds like a plan for round 2 should this 'Italian' Visa be refused, I could apply at France or Portugal Embassies if I modify the itinerary giving France, Portugal and Italy 4 nights equally.

This Schengen thing sounds like a great process once the kinks are ironed out, but for now I'd have to say it kinda sucks, but still nowhere near as bad as Expats having to deal with Thai immigration

I would just say am going to one country only and leave it at that, remember you only need airticket confirmation, most agencies will give you this including atninter.com, also hotel bookings can be cancelled free of charge www.booking.com, state you would like multi entry as you might travel into another country for a days sightseeing, I put down am staying near the Swiss/German border area so frequently crossing into Germany from Switzerland

Edited January 23, 2012 by beano2274