How Do You Cope/Plan To Cope In Thailand When 70+

[Old Croc]

What a depressing thread... I would say for all Thailand is worth when it comes to living... most old people either die alone or without proper care. You would need a developed country to make the politicians even think about elderly care. For me I would take my missus with me when we come of age and return to my home country.

It's maybe not the best and it's certainly less energetic than Thailand is sometimes but atleast there we won´t have to worry to be buried in unmarked graves.

People here do want to care but the simply don´t because for many it's survival for the fittest ... in other words , think about yourself. The malls, the shopping centers, the hi-so restaurants and cafes are all part of the shroud that is hiding Thailands real infrastructure and social problems. In one way it's not far from what is happening in the US but to be honest , how many here would care about farangs when we are not part of their country? If you have money and want to spend the remaining time here before you pass away, go ahead but for me I rather play it safe with my family than take risks like that. I don't see myslef as an 89 year old playboy, it just doesnt fit the picture.

Many people just don't have the family back home to provide the pallative care at the end.

I think most 89 yo 's are past the playboy stage where ever they find themselves at that age. If you don't have a caring partner in Thailand, or anywhere else, as you approach the end, what will happen to you? As has now been pointed out there are several aged facilities here where you can spend your final days. I would think the care would be better and cheaper than western facilities.

[maprao]

I hope I live until I am 70....I have had a hard life.....

Remember look after your kids because they will look after you when you are old......I hope

In the west it is more like take care and be nice to your kids because they will pick ol peoples home they put you in!

[Old Croc]

A very important topic & one which I recently wrote a paper about (see web site of the Australian Chamber of Commerce in Thailand). In that paper I mentioned a rather good facility I inspected here in Chiang Mai - Dok Kaew Gardens. I think this may be the first of the western style nursing homes here in Thailand. It only offers two levels of care at the moment (low & medium). Although it's small there are still places available ... it does very little marketing. They plan to enlarge it if the demand is there.

Interesting. I hadn't heard of it nor would I think have many others.

Would have to be better than a traditional western facility I would guess.

Another option to consider.

I visited a friend who was staying there while he recuperated from a operation. Was impressed it is on about 50 acres and has lots of walking trails. A shuttle goes into the city for those who wish to go. A friend moved there and he needs no care. It was about 23,000 baht all in. When I was there they had not decided on what kind of TV they were going to get. They also had a section where they could keep the althimers in case they wandered off. All in All it looked like a good place for those in need. I don't know what the cost would be for those in need. I imagine it would be on a escalating scale.

They do have medical services on the property.

That sounds a hell of a lot better than the place in Western Australia where my mother spent her final years.

It cost most of her war widows pension. and entertainment consisted of wheeling them into a big room for bingo or singalongs.

The only staff they could find were newly arrived refugees from places like Sudan. When she objected to strange male nurses showering her, she went without for days. She was hospitalised and died after falling in the bathroom and lying there for about six hours until found.

Couldn't see that happenning in Thailand.

[hellodolly]

I am currently 70 and loving life. If push comes t pull I can return to Canada or the states and siggn over every thing I have to be instatuonlized.

the current plan is to live at least to 100 and if I don't make it shoot me. I have a Thai wife who is15 years my junior and she can take cre of me or barring that there is her son and doughter who we have helped get a better education who have said they would take care of us.

I try not to think about it I have options and thinking about them might cause me to have to choose one. I go out and live each day like it is the first day of the rest of my life. When I do think of dying I remember what I accomplished in my first thirty years of life and look forward to the next thirty with a little more wisdom than I had in the first thirty.

My sister once asked me what I waned done with my remains when I die. I told her if in the States put the ashes in another sisters pile of lawn trimmings and degradable garbage. If in Canada spread the ashes up and down highway number 5 in B. C. and if in Thailand what ever the misses wants.

I have been in a few of those places in Canada and The States where people go to die. No Thank you.

[Old Croc]

This has mainly turned into a thread about what you will do when you are on the slippery slope to oblivion, but I would like to hear about codgers who are doing fine, and are happy with their choice to retire here,

Tell us how old you are, and how life is at an advanced age in Thailand as compared to how it would be back home.

[Old Croc]

I am currently 70 and loving life. If push comes t pull I can return to Canada or the states and siggn over every thing I have to be instatuonlized.

the current plan is to live at least to 100 and if I don't make it shoot me. I have a Thai wife who is15 years my junior and she can take cre of me or barring that there is her son and doughter who we have helped get a better education who have said they would take care of us.

I try not to think about it I have options and thinking about them might cause me to have to choose one. I go out and live each day like it is the first day of the rest of my life. When I do think of dying I remember what I accomplished in my first thirty years of life and look forward to the next thirty with a little more wisdom than I had in the first thirty.

My sister once asked me what I waned done with my remains when I die. I told her if in the States put the ashes in another sisters pile of lawn trimmings and degradable garbage. If in Canada spread the ashes up and down highway number 5 in B. C. and if in Thailand what ever the misses wants.

I have been in a few of those places in Canada and The States where people go to die. No Thank you.

[Headgame]

Great question posed - not depressing, just real. I am soon to be 68 and will continue to grow old disgracefully. I've been living in TH for 18 months and am very content. Fortunately, I am in good shape with reasonably good family DNA, exercise daily, moderate drinker and smoke approx. 5 - 10 per day. I go out on the town at least once if not twice per week. Sometimes it gets a bit crazy but never out of control. My libido continues in overdrive and I have a TH lady companion in her late thirties and most of the time, our life together is a blast. I have an adequate pension which gets periodically supplemented so that I have a decent life that wouldn't be even remotely possible back in L.A. If I have a serious medical issue, it's really quite simple, I will pull my own plug. Life is for living to the max and when that is no longer possible, I'll be thankful for a great life, great family, great friends and many adventures. I love rock and roll.

[Old Croc]

Great question posed - not depressing, just real. I am soon to be 68 and will continue to grow old disgracefully. I've been living in TH for 18 months and am very content. Fortunately, I am in good shape with reasonably good family DNA, exercise daily, moderate drinker and smoke approx. 5 - 10 per day. I go out on the town at least once if not twice per week. Sometimes it gets a bit crazy but never out of control. My libido continues in overdrive and I have a TH lady companion in her late thirties and most of the time, our life together is a blast. I have an adequate pension which gets periodically supplemented so that I have a decent life that wouldn't be even remotely possible back in L.A. If I have a serious medical issue, it's really quite simple, I will pull my own plug. Life is for living to the max and when that is no longer possible, I'll be thankful for a great life, great family, great friends and many adventures. I love rock and roll.

We invented it! Time Is On My Side!

[seanocasey]

Many older people enjoy various new pursuits and interests but the one they share in common is that of giving courage to those still on the way. Each old person can be a model for those who may be dreading old age. One of our really old friends famously said, “Old age is not all it’s cracked up to be!” Especially when every year seems to steal something from you – a dear friend, your lower teeth or your driving licence! It’s essential to remember that time steals from everyone and is not just picking on you!

To grow old with dignity demands discipline. You see it in the faces of those who do. It comes not from one big dramatic decision but from dozens of right decisions made each day: the decision to sit up instead of slouching; the decision not to have ‘just one more’ drink; the decision to stop eating before feeling stuffed! And decisions of the spirit – keeping involved and interested in everything; avoiding self - pity and bitterness.

The voices and faces of some old people give them away. They didn’t develop these overnight. All their lives they’ve been feeling sorry for themselves and blaming others for their plight. In old age they are the same – only worse!

When you meet people who are at peace with their lives, Like Dan a friend of mine, they seem to spread a light around them whereas the disgruntled ones cast a shadow across the day. It’s not exactly a joke.

Life is for living.

[KeyserSoze01]

Great question posed - not depressing, just real. I am soon to be 68 and will continue to grow old disgracefully. I've been living in TH for 18 months and am very content. Fortunately, I am in good shape with reasonably good family DNA, exercise daily, moderate drinker and smoke approx. 5 - 10 per day. I go out on the town at least once if not twice per week. Sometimes it gets a bit crazy but never out of control. My libido continues in overdrive and I have a TH lady companion in her late thirties and most of the time, our life together is a blast. I have an adequate pension which gets periodically supplemented so that I have a decent life that wouldn't be even remotely possible back in L.A. If I have a serious medical issue, it's really quite simple, I will pull my own plug. Life is for living to the max and when that is no longer possible, I'll be thankful for a great life, great family, great friends and many adventures. I love rock and roll.

This is my model retirement. To live a modest but comfortable lifestyle, have good friends both male and female to share experiences and travel, chase a few skirts and just enjoy life in a tropical climate. The only time I ever want to see snow again is on the television. If or when the time comes that I become infirm or begin to lose my senses, I will take matters into my own hands to shuffle off this mortal coil. That is unless I get taken out by a bus while crossing the street or my chute fails to open during a jump.

The Thai retirement community sounds attractive for those who choose that path. The managed care business in the west is horribly expensive and offers little in the way of quality of life for their residents. The are companies in the Philippines building retirement resorts of this nature also. With the coming wave of baby-boomer retirees in the west, many are searching for an escape from their past and to enjoy their retirement in a place where they can leverage their assets.

[Ijustwannateach]

Great post, Seanocasey! I was thinking along similar lines. I have a number of older friends- some MUCH older- and I know which ones I would want to be like and which ones I wouldn't. I agree with you that looking at the long view and making good decisions is pretty important. None of us can guarantee our health or even our sanity, but to the extent that we can make the best possible choices towards preserving those things- that's the way to go. Especially because no one knows what kind of pensions or insurance will make it as long as we do; best to bet on keeping things going as smoothly as possible for as long as we can.

[tombkk]

This has mainly turned into a thread about what you will do when you are on the slippery slope to oblivion, but I would like to hear about codgers who are doing fine, and are happy with their choice to retire here,

Tell us how old you are, and how life is at an advanced age in Thailand as compared to how it would be back home.

At 49, I'm the spring chicken in this thread. But I have thought about this question many times.

I do want to retire and spend the rest of my life here. I have a partner of 9 years who I believe will take care of me when I get old. Will that still be true in 20 or 30 years from now?

There are retirement homes for westeners in Thailand. The Thai way is to take care of the elderly in their own families, which is much better but not all of us expats will have access to it.

If my partner and his family won't take care of me, I don't think I would want to stay in a home. I think I would hire a private nursing service, which is affordable here.

[necronx99]

I will just hope for the best as I have always done. There is a place for old farangs to stay when they can not take care of themselves in Chiang Mai that is getting good reports and it is not too expensive, so that is always an option.

How about a bottle of sleeping pills and a box of matches?

I can't really imagine myself withering away in a nursing home.

What are the matches for? DIY cremation? That could get nasty if you muck up the pill bit.

But generally I'm with you, senile, crippled and shitting in your bed for a few years is not a good look to go out on.

I would not want to put my partner through that, I can't imagine being so selfish.

What we need are Evapatoriums , walk in, push a button and phhht. Gone.

[JusMe]

If or when the time comes that I become infirm or begin to lose my senses, I will take matters into my own hands to shuffle off this mortal coil.

A thought from several people on the thread. And I like to agree with it.

However, I am constantly reminded of an old lady a friend and I ended up caring for, as she passed her final several years in a care facility. We had talked about her diminishing physical health, and even had the necessary papers for us to make medical decisions for her.

What we had not considered and planned for, was a stroke that took her facility for doing much herself. And she very slowly diminished mentally, losing her ability to speak and even reason.

I would definitely want to pull the plug on myself, as long as I know what I'm doing! That's the problem as I see it - how can I do the necessary if I don't know by then that it is necessary, or I no longer have the physical ability to do it?

[necronx99]

If or when the time comes that I become infirm or begin to lose my senses, I will take matters into my own hands to shuffle off this mortal coil.

A thought from several people on the thread. And I like to agree with it.

However, I am constantly reminded of an old lady a friend and I ended up caring for, as she passed her final several years in a care facility. We had talked about her diminishing physical health, and even had the necessary papers for us to make medical decisions for her.

What we had not considered and planned for, was a stroke that took her facility for doing much herself. And she very slowly diminished mentally, losing her ability to speak and even reason.

I would definitely want to pull the plug on myself, as long as I know what I'm doing! That's the problem as I see it - how can I do the necessary if I don't know by then that it is necessary, or I no longer have the physical ability to do it?

A stroke is my worst nightmare. But i have made my wishes crystal clear in that event.

[Xangsamhua]

Hopefully I'll be like my dad. Up to age 89 he visited us here in Khon Kaen every year. He even climbed the 9-levels of Wat Nong Waen on his last visit. Then he said he didn't like the long flight so didn't come. Still active in the UK though. He had a massive stroke 10 days ago and died at 5am our time today aged 92 and a half. So from active to dead in ten days. I could cope with that. We fly back to UK on Thursday.

Sorry about your loss, but as you say, active until near the end is the way to be.

Some research by Tom Perls I read a few years ago about centenarians indicated that people who live to 100 tend to be quite robust until the last three or four months of their lives. When they go they go quite quickly. That may be encouraging for those approaching old age who want to stay here and lead a full life and be little trouble to others at the end.

[Mobi]

Sorry, when I said ‘retirement homes’ what I really meant was ‘homes for retirees’ of which there are several scattered around Thailand. I suppose another term might be ‘sheltered housing’ or even ‘senior’ housing projects, such as the kind that have proliferated in places like Florida.

What I have seen here, and what I was also considering investing in, were compact, bungalow type accommodation or two floor condo type developments which are specifically designed for sale or lease to retirees, both single and married couples. All the projects I viewed were owned and operated by Scandinavians.

The living accommodation is self-contained with their own kitchens etc, and there are communal facilities such as a swimming pools, exercise and games rooms, shops and cafés, along with a resident nurse, maintenance warden and first aid facilities.

Transport is provided to take residents shopping and further afield (at a fee, of course) and the places are strategically located within 30 minutes or less drive of a provincial hospital.

These places seem to cater mainly for retirees who have never lived in Thailand before and therefore need a high level of local guidance and support to help them get out and about in Thailand.

For those who have money, and have some experience of living here, there is no reason why they can’t enjoy life in their own homes and rely on their Thai wives and/or paid carers to do whatever may be necessary. It is no different to living in any country, except that in Thailand they will have to pay for all their medical treatment, whereas in their home country, it may be free.

Indeed, the cost of having you own carer will be considerable cheaper here than in the west, as will the overall cost of living. So provided your medical expenses are not ridiculously high, it could even be cheaper for those who are still in good physical shape to live here rather than in their home country.

If, and when you become very sick and infirm, then provided you still have money, you can still be cared for here, just as well – if not better – than you can back home.

And if euthanasia is your preferred way to go, I think you will find even that easier to carry out here than back home….

So all in all, I don’t see the problem – provided you have the necessary funds.

For those farangs on limited pensions and/or income and have no emergency ‘nest egg’ to fall back on, I would venture to suggest that Thailand is not the best of places to grow old and die.

[exeter]

I came out here to retire, enjoy life foe as long as possible and when the morning does not come I will have a happy end to my years, happier than back in blighty. I do not want to be hanging around the UK waiting for a trip down the hospital for nothing. I can spend that waiting time in a much happier way here. I am unlikely to have a email telling me that in 4 weeks you need to be close to a hospital so I take the unknown future for what it is. I have mede my choice its Thailand.

[Eff1n2ret]

For those farangs on limited pensions and/or income and have no emergency ‘nest egg’ to fall back on, I would venture to suggest that Thailand is not the best of places to grow old and die.

You're probably right. If you're from the UK and have no nest-egg, you can return there and cast yourself on social services and the NHS. It won't be a bundle of fun, but you'll probably get most of the care you need. If you do have assets beyond a minimal level, they will take them off you first, so if you're going to have to cash them in you might as well spend the money in Thailand and get more for it.

[alyx]

Very interesting topic. Now, I am only 35, but my only desire to return to the UK is to see regularly my grandmother who is in a home there. She has developed basically the same condition Tom Hanks had in Castaway with the volley ball, in that she talks to and treats a picture of me when I was 10 as if it were alive "I must go home now, little Ad will be scared of the dark" kind of thing. She is 91. In the UK in that state it must be made bearable due to the family around you. Here I wonder if the lady you married 40 years younger than you, now pushing around a 85 yr old for a decade; could the care level get any worse? Yes. I guess it is the time when you find out if she really did love you or the cash and family security.

I see regularly one old boy in my local Big C; his missus leaves him in KFC as she does the shopping and he must be 85-90. The look on his face as he tries to reach the plastic straw on his coke is of pure malevolence. There is about 10 years of ingrained hatred in his face and each time I see him I am tempted to ask him if he wants me to pop to the Pharmacy for him for a bottle of something to ease his passing. He is beyond being able to of himself, and maybe he stays alive just to piss his missus off. He should be in a home though. For me? I will off myself long before that stage if nature does not do it first. It will take a pretty special girl for me not to do that.

Wow....What a statement!!!!!!

How can you judge someone this way? How do you know that they are married or even together ? how do you know that the man is not happy the way he is rather than staying in a home by himself? Ten years of hatred?????you should know that some people do not carry their thoughts on their faces.

I am just startled by your stand.

Rather than being so helpful with a trip to the chemist , maybe a nice and friendly approach might be better....who knows , the guy might have some things he could teach you. But you seem to know better, life is so full of surprises.....

Edited January 24, 2012 by alyx

[yermanee]

Not surprisingly many here say they will opt out if the time comes.

I'm 75 and have no intention whatsoever to do just that, maybe because I believe it to be a cowardly act.

I prefer to try and cope with whatever life throws at me.

However having said that I find it very strange indeed that animals can be put humanely to sleep, and humans cannot.

Anyway as my signature says : Old age is not for sissies, but a loving wife and family helps alot.

Yermanee

[cmsally]

For those farangs on limited pensions and/or income and have no emergency ‘nest egg’ to fall back on, I would venture to suggest that Thailand is not the best of places to grow old and die.

You're probably right. If you're from the UK and have no nest-egg, you can return there and cast yourself on social services and the NHS. It won't be a bundle of fun, but you'll probably get most of the care you need. If you do have assets beyond a minimal level, they will take them off you first, so if you're going to have to cash them in you might as well spend the money in Thailand and get more for it.

UK if you have anything more than 23k GBP the govt will suck it up before they give you free care. That includes property. If you choose the private option you are looking at around min 3k GBP per month. No wonder there are so many care homes and private carer services opening up. I t would appear "oldies" are good business.

[Ulysses G.]

Not surprisingly many here say they will opt out if the time comes.

I'm 75 and have no intention whatsoever to do just that, maybe because I believe it to be a cowardly act.

I have no intention of suicide either, but I can see why someone who can not take care of themselves would consider it and I do not think that it is cowardly.

[Gweiloman]

The thought of shuffling off to a retirement home has always depressed me. For as long as I can remember I have liked the multi-generational household model that is traditional in many Asian countries, and that was one of the reasons I came to Thailand in the first place. I'm currently living in a house with somewhere between 8-12 inlaws (depends on what day it is and which relatives are passing through) and there are presently two older generations ahead of me in this house. I help take care of them now just as (I hope) the younger generations that are growing up in this house will care for me when I become elderly and infirm.

Good on you, you are one of the very few expats on this forum who understands, accepts and see the value of the multi-generational household model. There are many other expats on this forum who builds big walls, barb wire, guard dogs, anything, to keep the family / relatives / in laws away. Guess who will bother to take care of them when the time comes?

[Gweiloman]

What a depressing thread... I would say for all Thailand is worth when it comes to living... most old people either die alone or without proper care. You would need a developed country to make the politicians even think about elderly care. For me I would take my missus with me when we come of age and return to my home country.

It's maybe not the best and it's certainly less energetic than Thailand is sometimes but atleast there we won´t have to worry to be buried in unmarked graves.

People here do want to care but the simply don´t because for many it's survival for the fittest ... in other words , think about yourself. The malls, the shopping centers, the hi-so restaurants and cafes are all part of the shroud that is hiding Thailands real infrastructure and social problems. In one way it's not far from what is happening in the US but to be honest , how many here would care about farangs when we are not part of their country? If you have money and want to spend the remaining time here before you pass away, go ahead but for me I rather play it safe with my family than take risks like that. I don't see myslef as an 89 year old playboy, it just doesnt fit the picture.

Governmental elderly care is a joke, regardless of whichever developed country you come from. Even in many European countries, many old people die alone and/or without proper care.

That's why Asia with it's very different set of values is such an attraction for many. Here, the family unit takes care of it's own. I guess you are living in Bangkok, where you see a way of life that is not uncommon to many other major cities. However, in Isaan, I see many many examples where friends / family rally round to look after the old and elderly.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I just recently turned 78 and truly do enjoy life. I have a fantastic wife about a decade younger than me and we have been together for over 35 years. retired 28 years ago at age 50 and have never regretted it for a minute.

Things do get a bit tougher in the 70's but not significantly. The memory is so jammed pack full it takes a bit longer to sort through it to come up with the names of some things or people. The body moves a bit slower and you have a few more aches and pains but you have to look at the alternative to getting older and I don't find that attractive at all.

As far as plans go I plan to live to at least 98, in fact I refuse to go any sooner than that. My mother lived to be 96 and was healthy up to the day befrore she passed away. She lived a great life and her memory was better than mine at that time. She took care of herself up to the end. She lived with us for the last few years and was no trouble at all. I plan to copy her.

Basicly my hearing is shot but have great eyesight, have osteo arthritis but I think everyone does by their mid 70's.

Have been in Thailand over 5 years and recently (last year) bought a townhouse in Idaho to spend time with the kids. So we spend 7-8 months in Cha Am and 4-5 months in Idaho. It is a great life style but the trip is a pain and will be the reason to select one place or the other in 10 years or so. In the mean time we will enjoy what we are doing and keep on truckin.

[Fookhaht]

My bar teerak said she & her family would take care of me. 'Til the money runs out.

This scenario would be my second choice, of course.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Fookhaht

[Fookhaht]

I just recently turned 78 and truly do enjoy life. I have a fantastic wife about a decade younger than me and we have been together for over 35 years. retired 28 years ago at age 50 and have never regretted it for a minute.

Things do get a bit tougher in the 70's but not significantly. The memory is so jammed pack full it takes a bit longer to sort through it to come up with the names of some things or people. The body moves a bit slower and you have a few more aches and pains but you have to look at the alternative to getting older and I don't find that attractive at all.

As far as plans go I plan to live to at least 98, in fact I refuse to go any sooner than that. My mother lived to be 96 and was healthy up to the day befrore she passed away. She lived a great life and her memory was better than mine at that time. She took care of herself up to the end. She lived with us for the last few years and was no trouble at all. I plan to copy her.

Basicly my hearing is shot but have great eyesight, have osteo arthritis but I think everyone does by their mid 70's.

Have been in Thailand over 5 years and recently (last year) bought a townhouse in Idaho to spend time with the kids. So we spend 7-8 months in Cha Am and 4-5 months in Idaho. It is a great life style but the trip is a pain and will be the reason to select one place or the other in 10 years or so. In the mean time we will enjoy what we are doing and keep on truckin.

I like your style and mental attitude. In my 60's, I rigorously exercise every day, and eat sensibly. I love jungle-hiking in SE Asia and snowboarding in N. America when I visit.

My plan is to live a healthy, active life style with no extended illnesses right up until bucket-kicking time....and then keel over with a sudden heart attack. My first choice.

[tombkk]

Not surprisingly many here say they will opt out if the time comes.

I'm 75 and have no intention whatsoever to do just that, maybe because I believe it to be a cowardly act.

I have no intention of suicide either, but I can see why someone who can not take care of themselves would consider it and I do not think that it is cowardly.

A friend of mine attempted suicide a few months ago (and failed), so I have been thinking about it. Yes, I do believe it's a cowardly choice, as the person does not want to deal with the problems at hand but wants to take the easy way out.

In addition, in this case, it caused a financial burden on the family that had to pay the hospital bills.

As a Buddhist, I am against killing. Well, I do compromise, as I agree to killing for food (this does not include killing plants because you want to give your loved one a rose), but it explicitly excludes killing humans. If you kill yourself, you kill a human, which is a deadly sin not only in Buddhism but in most religions I know of.

Coming back to the OP's question, I therefore do not consider suicide a way of coping with old age.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, I do believe it's a cowardly choice, as the person does not want to deal with the problems at hand but wants to take the easy way out.

What if one is deaf, dumb, blind, paralized and in severe pain all of the time? There are people in unbearable circumstances whose every monent is a living hell. Who could blame them for taking the "easy" way out?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ulysses G.