Marriage Papers, Dowry (again!)

[muay_thai]

According to the good ladies "Fortune Teller"

(Boy do I hate her fortune teller, although she came good on the UK visa!)

I am going to marry next year, so having brief talks with wife to be I asked

about papers and she said that she didn't want to register the papers as not

important and I am gathering that she doesn't want to as it is not a good

financial situation for her or if something happened then she would need a

divorce and I am happy to see her point of view. Although she is willing to

register in the future once I can stay in thailand longer to make it easier.

I'm just wondering from any other farangs that done the marriage bit if

they registered their papers, and if so what are the advantages / disadvantages

for both parties, also would it make it easier to stay in the country longer ?

Also, is their a dowry poll anywhere or could one be set up / can you give me

advice think she's looking at 100,000 Bht.

Open to negotiation for a return to us!

Also how much did your party cost ? Im hoping the whole village isn't invited

and may be able to get away with just close family and cousins (she likes her

cousin, hmm wonder if its her thai husband?), anyway gotta go need to

work on becoming a vegetarian so I've got an excuse for her not to need to

kill a cow for the party should save a few bht .

Oh nearly forgot, is there a way I can find out if she is previously registered

as married and also if thais marry do they always register or are some of

those marriages just ceremony / party ?

[the gentleman]

Hello mate,

I didnt register my marriage as at the moment we are planning to do it on the 1 year anniversary of our Thai marriage. I will then register it, I hadnt married before and I suppose I wanted to make sure it was "real" as I have a lot to lose.

My party cost about 100,000 baht, but that was for 300 people and worth the money. My wife wanted low key, but the first marriage for both of us, is and was supposed to be special - so the money was well spent.

If you register your marriage you can gain quite a lot regarding Thailand laws, but the other guys here would know a lot more, so they can answer that. Your wife on the other hand, gains in some areas and loses in others, such as only being able to own 1 Rai of land in her name.

The dowry, I think is up to you - is she worth 100,000, if so pay it mate - it doesnt sound ridiculous as its one of the cheapest dowrys I have heard of. I suppose it is a token to her parents - she could of asked for a lot more!

I dont hink there is a way of checking a Thai marriage - maybe only by asking friends of hers or "the village" when you get married - that would be a twist wouldnt it - would you still go ahead?

[muay_thai]

If anyone has any further information on the loss of land please inform me as I know she holds land paid for by her sister but in her name, and she may be

worried about losing this I suppose.

Somethings she seems to have good reasons for shes just frightened to tell me,

is this generally the way?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You need to be aware that Thai law doesn't recognize de facto relationships. This will create visa problems for you ( eg. ineligible for a Non-Immigrant visa )

[Felt 35]

There is no limit on how much land a Thai woman married to a foreigner can own.

However, for her to own land, you, being her husband, must sign an affidavit at the Provincial Land Office guaranteeing that she is not using communal property acquired after marriage to buy land. ”

Marriage to a Thai national confers no rights, though a marriage certificate may be used in support of applications for visas and work permits. Generally speaking, foreigners have no specific rights in Thailand.”

Most foreign embassies would demand that she prove that she is single or divorced (if she have been married before)with a document you can get at the district office where she has registered here address before you can get married. The same apply to you!

It is she who can gain something if you register the marriage. Example benefits from your country. Like economical benefits when you eventually get a child, birth support,health insurance, pension after you die, free education if you move back home, etc

Dowry is only actual if she not have had any husband before you..... The amount is negotiable.

Party is up to here, you and here family, if you live in a rich province with wealthy friends, well then the party`s cost and more to is probably covered. Poor place, the small amount you get will probably go to here family.

If she absolutely not want to register the marriage, well think twice about it!

[surin]

According to the good ladies "Fortune Teller"

(Boy do I hate her fortune teller, although she came good on the UK visa!)

I am going to marry next year, so having brief talks with wife to be I asked

about papers and she said that she didn't want to register the papers as not

important and I am gathering that she doesn't want to as it is not a good

financial situation for her or if something happened then she would need a

divorce and I am happy to see her point of view. Although she is willing to

register in the future once I can stay in thailand longer to make it easier.

I'm just wondering from any other farangs that done the marriage bit if

they registered their papers, and if so what are the advantages / disadvantages

for both parties, also would it make it easier to stay in the country longer ?

Also, is their a dowry poll anywhere or could one be set up / can you give me

advice think she's looking at 100,000 Bht.

Open to negotiation for a return to us!

Also how much did your party cost ? Im hoping the whole village isn't invited

and may be able to get away with just close family and cousins (she likes her

cousin, hmm wonder if its her thai husband?), anyway gotta go need to

work on becoming a vegetarian so I've got an excuse for her not to need to

kill a cow for the party should save a few bht .

Oh nearly forgot, is there a way I can find out if she is previously registered

as married and also if thais marry do they always register or are some of

those marriages just ceremony / party ?

She possibly does not want to register due to the fact she is already registered to a Thai husband!

And....Don't pay any dowry as there is no reason to!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hello mate,

I didnt register my marriage as at the moment we are planning to do it on the 1 year anniversary of our Thai marriage. I will then register it, I hadnt married before and I suppose I wanted to make sure it was "real" as I have a lot to lose.

My party cost about 100,000 baht, but that was for 300 people and worth the money. My wife wanted low key, but the first marriage for both of us, is and was supposed to be special - so the money was well spent.

If you register your marriage you can gain quite a lot regarding Thailand laws, but the other guys here would know a lot more, so they can answer that. Your wife on the other hand, gains in some areas and loses in others, such as only being able to own 1 Rai of land in her name.

The dowry, I think is up to you - is she worth 100,000, if so pay it mate - it doesnt sound ridiculous as its one of the cheapest dowrys I have heard of. I suppose it is a token to her parents - she could of asked for a lot more!

I dont hink there is a way of checking a Thai marriage - maybe only by asking friends of hers or "the village" when you get married - that would be a twist wouldnt it - would you still go ahead?

Was your ' marriage ' a temple ceremomy only Gentleman ?

[KevinN]

Well Well,another farang in the bar gal business, If you do not register your marriage at Amphur ,then you are not married,cause that is the point at where it happens.

after you make the trip to amphur then the marriage is legal in your country as well as here.[but of coarse I can only speak for what is law in the USA.]

And you will have to go to the embassy and obtain a letter that you are single and free to marry,notarized and translated to Thai.they do not say a thing about her papers as they will know at amphur if she is legal to marry.

And she can own all the land she wants,anytime she wants,has nothing to do with who she is married to. And it will do you no real good as a to visa requirements.

And I think that the dowry is a bunch of bullshit under any circumstance as when you marry,you will forever be giving money to the family,and they should be glad anyway as they won't have to support her anymore.and specially if she won't go to amphur because you will not be married to her. If you gonna get a wife,buy a car or elephant ,don't you want papers of ownership?

The party and traditional Thai marriage is just another excuse to get drunk,so it is OK if thats what you want,When I got married we had a dinner party at our house for the immediate family and no booze.

sounds to me that you are just another farang that is getting the run around,,She got the gold mine,,You are getting the shaft.

[maxbkkguy]

And she can own all the land she wants,anytime she wants,has nothing to do with who she is married to.  And it will do you no real good as a to visa requirements.

And I think that the dowry is a bunch of bullshit under any circumstance as when you marry,you will forever be giving money to the family,and they should be glad anyway as they won't have to support her anymore.and specially if she won't go to amphur because you will not be married to her. If you gonna get a wife,buy a car or elephant ,don't you want papers of ownership?

Well said !! I have been telling many of my farang friends to get their marriage register in her' amphur' and don't be lazy or you will regret it later in life.

Most thai girls would give all sort of excuses just to deter you to ask them to register the marriage in' amphur'.

If you are owner of some big mega malls like the one 'Miss thailand' married last year .I'm 100% sure she would grab you by the neck and force you to register in Thailand.

Most farangs have this misconception that by holding a big wedding party banquet back her hometown is consider as marriage in Thailand.

In facts ,we have more to gain if get our marriage register in her 'amphur '.

If you are not registered in 'amphur' , she will forever be consider as 'Miss' and regard as 'single' in her Thai I.D. She can anytime or as and when disregard you as her so called 'husband' and go hunting for another thai/farang bf.

How's nice of 'her' to have the gold and ditch the gold giver.

You be warned!! Take care !!

[the gentleman]

Hello mate,

I didnt register my marriage as at the moment we are planning to do it on the 1 year anniversary of our Thai marriage. I will then register it, I hadnt married before and I suppose I wanted to make sure it was "real" as I have a lot to lose.

My party cost about 100,000 baht, but that was for 300 people and worth the money. My wife wanted low key, but the first marriage for both of us, is and was supposed to be special - so the money was well spent.

If you register your marriage you can gain quite a lot regarding Thailand laws, but the other guys here would know a lot more, so they can answer that. Your wife on the other hand, gains in some areas and loses in others, such as only being able to own 1 Rai of land in her name.

The dowry, I think is up to you - is she worth 100,000, if so pay it mate - it doesnt sound ridiculous as its one of the cheapest dowrys I have heard of. I suppose it is a token to her parents - she could of asked for a lot more!

I dont hink there is a way of checking a Thai marriage - maybe only by asking friends of hers or "the village" when you get married - that would be a twist wouldnt it - would you still go ahead?

Was your ' marriage ' a temple ceremomy only Gentleman ?

Yes it was Doc - the reason for this was that I had lost my passport and was waiting for a new one at the time and after we had married and received another passport we decided to register on the 1 year anniversary, which is next month.

So not long to go. Although unplanned at the time (I lost it the day before I got married), I think it was great to live with her for a year, before registering as we know all of our pitfalls etc. It is a great relationship and I will definately be happy to register next month with no fears at all.

[Mr Helper]

You DON'T pay for the party.........

After speaking with Thai friends of mine here in UK, a couple of yrs ago about Dowrys, they confirmed one thing. Thats about who pays for the PARTY.

OK in Thailand the family of the Bride PAY for the party not YOU. The husband pays for the dowry ONLY. If the family want to invite 100 plus ppl to the party, then it doesnt matter, as it's still them who have to pay for the party, and not YOU.

If your wife to be is demanding that you are the one who has to pay for the party, then your marriage has already gotten off to a bad start, and you are being taken for a ride my friend.

My Thai friends here explained to me that when a Thai girl marrys a westerner, they usually make HIM pay for the party. But this is not how things are done in Thailand. The reason the tell they western hubby that he has to pay for the party, is because he usually doesnt really know about the Thai system. So if they demand you pay for the party, then cancel the wedding. You will be better off, I wouldn't wanna marry a girl who tried to rip off her husband over the wedding.

Next the Dowry, as somebody else said, if the girl has been married before, then NO sin sod is required. Sin Sod is only paid to the family ONCE, and not twice.

And the price is very negotiable, as a westerner they will have already doubled the price. Thats why they are looking at 100,000. Pay no more than 50,000 and make sure they know that.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hello mate,

I didnt register my marriage as at the moment we are planning to do it on the 1 year anniversary of our Thai marriage. I will then register it, I hadnt married before and I suppose I wanted to make sure it was "real" as I have a lot to lose.

My party cost about 100,000 baht, but that was for 300 people and worth the money. My wife wanted low key, but the first marriage for both of us, is and was supposed to be special - so the money was well spent.

If you register your marriage you can gain quite a lot regarding Thailand laws, but the other guys here would know a lot more, so they can answer that. Your wife on the other hand, gains in some areas and loses in others, such as only being able to own 1 Rai of land in her name.

The dowry, I think is up to you - is she worth 100,000, if so pay it mate - it doesnt sound ridiculous as its one of the cheapest dowrys I have heard of. I suppose it is a token to her parents - she could of asked for a lot more!

I dont hink there is a way of checking a Thai marriage - maybe only by asking friends of hers or "the village" when you get married - that would be a twist wouldnt it - would you still go ahead?

Was your ' marriage ' a temple ceremomy only Gentleman ?

Yes it was Doc - the reason for this was that I had lost my passport and was waiting for a new one at the time and after we had married and received another passport we decided to register on the 1 year anniversary, which is next month.

So not long to go. Although unplanned at the time (I lost it the day before I got married), I think it was great to live with her for a year, before registering as we know all of our pitfalls etc. It is a great relationship and I will definately be happy to register next month with no fears at all.

Have a lovely day...don't drink too much. Good luck pal.

[KevinN]

As to the dowry payments, I would think 100,000 is pretty steep,even in todays baht.

I remember that 50 or so years ago that a cyclo driver in Viet Nam that I was friendly with took me to his home one day and offered me his [about 13 or 14 year old] daughter,no dowry involved,just because he couldn't afford to feed her and he knew she would have a better life with me, Now it is my thoughts that if you must pay a dowry,then you own her,just like in the old days,you can have all the "MAI NOIs that you want and it is no business of hers as she is your property and you can do with her as you wish, and she should keep her mouth shut and not threaten you with "feeding the duck",so that is something to think about.

I never payed,so therefore I think that I have a true marriage and not an ownership policy and as such,she has as much say in the relationship as I.

[JamesTILAC]

A Thai female ex-colleague (very rich one) got married with the son of her father's business associate. The dowry was 500,000 but they used the money as savings after getting married. They still live together. When i asked on these dowry issues they said that this process is different according to the family interest.

She said that in the rural areas, it is often the case that the dowry is common to be seen as a "deposit" to the family. Just as simple as that. Other members of rural communities share the dowry among the close relatives and others use part of it for the party expenses (usually the whole community participates)....

Seems to be that this dowry issue has close relation with family believings rather than to follow certain rules. How much is enough? Well, few of my friends got married with bar girls and the dowry was usually 100-150K. Another guy got married with a chick from PIANO GENT'S CLUB and paid 250K plus jewelry for the female members of her family and the expenses of the huge party....they did separate few months after. The other guys I know took the girls back to farangland but fail to have them studying English/German/French or being nice housewifes. Excellent bang but bad behavior while drunk....among other flowers....

[JamesTILAC]

....forgot to add that good info could be found here....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...pic=4434&st=135

[Beckers]

Muay Thai,

From your first comment, she is already thinking about divorce before you get "married". I would imagine once you have paid for the village "Party of the Year" and given your 100,000 baht sin sord you will be having a difficult life with the "missus" and you will want to move on. This will allow her to then move on to next victim. If this is not immediate then you can bet your bottom dollar that 100,000 baht will last longer than your patience will.

A lot of Thais that I know do not have the Amphur wedding because they do not need to and the religious wedding means more to them anyway (if you have one you will see why). It is not a western culture that you are dealing with! An amphur wedding is essential if you wish to bring your "wife" to the West as your wife. My Mother-in-Law and Father-in-Law are not married in the western sense, but in the Thai sense they are more married than if they had just paid a visit to the Amphur.

Sounds like you may be a good natured Farang that is in need of some Eastern Culture company. You need to study this culture before you jump in head first and find there is no water, which is what you are doing!

I hope I am wrong and you have a happy future together, if she makes you watch out for your money and wants it to be yours and hers rather than friends and family's then you will know you have found a good'un.

[Pink Mist]

We got married in the Registration Office: Phra Nakhon District in the Bangkok Metropolis.

We used a translation service to assist and I must admit they were very good and they provided transport to the office and an office girl accompanied us and submitted all the forms to the clerks in an outer office.

The future wife and I are sitting down signing forms etc and then we are told to go into the Bosses office.

He is behind his desk and we sit opposite, he perouses the paper work and seems satisfied and we begin to have a chat.

He asks me did I realise my wife had been married b4, yes I say, did I realise she had children I said yes, he seems satisfied.

He asks her the same things, all ok, and asked a few more questions and by this stage I had lost interest in proceedings (was tiring quickly having arrived from Oz that morning), so I cant remember what they were.

The boss is again satisfied and says "YOU MAY KISS YOUR WIFE".

I am surprised and ask "did we just get married ?" he says "yes" and looks at me a little strangely.

This may come across a being really dumb, not aware of being in a wedding ceremony, but I will have to say NAIVE, it was more like an interview.

We were getting married the following Friday in the villiage and thought this meeting was to get the marriage license.

The point of this story is if you get married in the Amphur you will find out about previous marriages and children, and if you find yourself being interviewed by a Thai official you may be getting married.

We got married the following Friday in a villiage near KhonKaen was good time for all and I reckon it only cost about 25000 Bahht all up.

We used a Wedding Service who organised everything (except the grog), this included, catering, DJ's, suit and dress hire, Photographer (including wedding albums, a photo session pre wedding), her makeup and hair on the day, gifts for the guests.

I am gonna get the negs from wedding put on disc one day and post in forum so grooms to be, can see exactly what happens at a Thai ceremony.

[the gentleman]

When I arrived at my Thai wedding, I thought I would have a few minutes to say hello etc, I walked in not thinking I was getting married right then - walked in the door, 5 Monks and 300 people - what a shock it was, I will never forget that.

I will also never forget the pain in my knees from kneeling so long - a brilliant day though - unforgettable!

[Pink Mist]

I know what you mean Gent, I got cramp 1/2 way thru and Grandfather got me a chair.

I've got some photos of the wedding will definately post them in here, I look pretty funny seated and every one else on the floor.

We never had any Monks we had a Lay person ( I guess that's what he is) perform the ceremony. He seems to do all the stuff around the place.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I know what you mean Gent, I got cramp 1/2 way thru and Grandfather got me a chair.

I've got some photos of the wedding will definately post them in here, I look pretty funny seated and every one else on the floor.

We never had any Monks we had a Lay person ( I guess that's what he is) perform the ceremony. He seems to do all the stuff around the place.

You are not legally wed Bronco.....or so it seems to me

[KevinN]

Mine was a little different,and I do know that we are legally married.

After the trip to BKK to the American embassy, We went to the Amour in Phetchabun and went up to the front counter,and my wife said something to the clerk,she got out some forms ,looked at my passport and the papers that we took with us,had me sign somethings and then my wife left and had her picture taken and then we left,I asked where to now?,and she said Home,we are married and the picture was for my new ID card so they can change my name,,now that was all that it was for us.

And we decided again the traditional Thai ceremony as either one of us likes to be around drunks.But did have a dinner party for the family.

[muay_thai]

Kevin N, sorry this made me smile:

"And my wife said something to the clerk"

Just about sums thailand up,

"Excuse I would like to divorce this guy as he is not too rich, 'ka' ".

Only joking mate, hope all is good for you & your wife / divorcee, etc.

[KevinN]

M.T. Everything is GREAT, she isnt the first asian that I have ever had anything to do with,but the first that I actually married, We have not had any problems since she learned that I do not chippy and there was no need for her to be so Damm jealous,We have been married over 2 years and still as much in love as we were the very first week, I have had some good women but this Thai is the best I have ever had and due to the fact that I only have about 20 more years to go,I am sure she will be the last.

[Johnny Moron]

I plan to marry my (catholic) Thai fiancee soon because she's now unfortunate enough to be preganant with some of my genetic pollutants.

I heard today that in order to do this I have to get various guarantees/assurances to prove that I'm either single or divorced, all of which will need to be translated into Thai by a local lawyer (ie, $$$).

Confusingly, a fellow Brit told me that I'll also need some proof of income to show to the boys at the Amphur, while an American who I also spoke to said that he got married to a Thai girl locally last year and wasn't asked for any proof of income.

Does anyone know the facts?

[32x]

How long can i wait till after the temple wedding to register at amphur?

[george]

Can be done before or after, at any time, it does not matter at all. The temple wedding is just a religious ceremony.

[KevinN]

Temple wedding does not mean that you are married,it only means that you had a drunken party and gave gifts,you not will be married until you visit the Amphur and not before,as that is the marriage..

J.M. I was never asked anything about money,in fact they never said a word to me,I do not speak thai and the only thing that was required of me was to sign the marriage papers,and the notorized paper that was proof of me being single was translated to Thai across the street from the american embassy in some bank building on the 11th floor by a guy named TOD that does all of my translations and he don't charge to much.

Edited January 24, 2004 by KevinN

[surin]

When I arrived at my Thai wedding, I thought I would have a few minutes to say hello etc, I walked in not thinking I was getting married right then - walked in the door, 5 Monks and 300 people - what a shock it was, I will never forget that.

I will also never forget the pain in my knees from kneeling so long - a brilliant day though - unforgettable!

Same same!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Are you going to keep your job in Australia Khun Surin or do I get a glass or 10 overlooking your private lake sooner rather than later ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

We got married in the Registration Office: Phra Nakhon District in the Bangkok Metropolis.

We used a translation service to assist and I must admit they were very good and they provided transport to the office and an office girl accompanied us and submitted all the forms to the clerks in an outer office.

The future wife and I are sitting down signing forms etc and then we are told to go into the Bosses office.

He is behind his desk and we sit opposite, he perouses the paper work and seems satisfied and we begin to have a chat.

He asks me did I realise my wife had been married b4, yes I say, did I realise she had children I said yes, he seems satisfied.

He asks her the same things, all ok, and asked a few more questions and by this stage I had lost interest in proceedings (was tiring quickly having arrived from Oz that morning), so I cant remember what they were.

The boss is again satisfied and says "YOU MAY KISS YOUR WIFE".

I am surprised and ask "did we just get married ?" he says "yes" and looks at me a little strangely.

This may come across a being really dumb, not aware of being in a wedding ceremony, but I will have to say NAIVE, it was more like an interview.

We were getting married the following Friday in the villiage and thought this meeting was to get the marriage license.

The point of this story is if you get married in the Amphur you will find out about previous marriages and children, and if you find yourself being interviewed by a Thai official you may be getting married.

We got married the following Friday in a villiage near KhonKaen was good time for all and I reckon it only cost about 25000 Bahht all up.

We used a Wedding Service who organised everything (except the grog), this included, catering, DJ's, suit and dress hire, Photographer (including wedding albums, a photo session pre wedding), her makeup and hair on the day, gifts for the guests.

I am gonna get the negs from wedding put on disc one day and post in forum so grooms to be, can see exactly what happens at a Thai ceremony.

Sorry Bronco...I only read your posting about the decorative function.