Dowry

[britmaveric]

Never thought of it - perhaps one can demand a sinsot for the groom? (or use it as a leverage tool????)

[sriracha john]

Never thought of it - perhaps one can demand a sinsot for the groom? (or use it as a leverage tool????)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sure you can...just need to select an Indian bride instead of a Thai.

[britmaveric]

Never thought of it - perhaps one can demand a sinsot for the groom? (or use it as a leverage tool????)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sure you can...just need to select an Indian bride instead of a Thai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe - just say in farang land it's customary the bride pays the groom.

[sriracha john]

Never thought of it - perhaps one can demand a sinsot for the groom? (or use it as a leverage tool????)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sure you can...just need to select an Indian bride instead of a Thai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe - just say in farang land it's customary the bride pays the groom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

can do that too... just need to get married in farang land in order to follow farang land traditions.

[britmaveric]

Never thought of it - perhaps one can demand a sinsot for the groom? (or use it as a leverage tool????)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sure you can...just need to select an Indian bride instead of a Thai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe - just say in farang land it's customary the bride pays the groom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

can do that too... just need to get married in farang land in order to follow farang land traditions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easily done - marry in farang land!!

[cdnvic]

Never thought of it - perhaps one can demand a sinsot for the groom? (or use it as a leverage tool????)

In India and China that has been the norm for many years. Now selective birthing practices have caused a shortage of women, in China especially and have suddenly put the woman's family in the position of being able to demand doweries.

Anyone know if this change over has happened at any time in Thai history?

cv

[mrbojangles]

Anyone know if this change over has happened at any time in Thai history?

After reading many posts on this forum, i believe the current tradition is that the "Buffy" gets it all, nowadays

[Neeranam]

Easily done - marry in farang land!! smile.gif

That has many disadvantages if you get divorced.

[britmaveric]

Easily done - marry in farang land!! smile.gif

That has many disadvantages if you get divorced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neutral site!

[sonnyJ]

Never thought of it - perhaps one can demand a sinsot for the groom? (or use it as a leverage tool????)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In India and China that has been the norm for many years. Now selective birthing practices have caused a shortage of women, in China especially and have suddenly put the woman's family in the position of being able to demand doweries.

Anyone know if this change over has happened at any time in Thai history?

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a very good point to bring up, sinsot for the groom, as it is the tradition in Europe and also in most countries around the world, I would guess. Intercultural marriage should happen in both ways, to be fair, or at least to make it work..

This might be the result of patrilineal/matrilineal heritage system. Most cultures favor the patrilineal. Thailand is traditionally matrilineal, even the chinese immigrants couldn't change that. In ancient times, houshold was built around women because of nesseccities, men had to do lots of military service and other free labour for their leaders, go to wars, and simply find work. In other words travel a lot, never knowing when or if they would return home.

Actually I could see some logical reasons for a change to a patrilineal system in Thailand these days..

Anyway, it's not really my business and will not affect my life much in the way or the other.

[Felix Lynn]

Stickman's got a great article on "sin sot" in his latest column. Check it out.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com

[GuestHouse]

Neutral site!  

We got married in Singapore, no body is ever going to question the certificate and we ducked BOTH Thai and Western Costs...

Lets get real here folks a wedding in the UK runs out at around 15K ++ now, and that's real money, not bar tokens..

[sonnyJ]

Right, there's a will, there's a way.

Cheers

[rishi]

... 100.000 plus a reasonable amount of gold for an upcountry girl --- and you've got yourself a woman and family for life.

Be prepared, though (in case, you go for a tradional wedding-session) you'll have to bribe your way in to the parents house --- symbolic, though - the cash was provide by the brides family

[sriracha john]

I think mentioning "dowry" and "bribery" in the same breath displays a fundamental lack of understanding and/or appreciation of a culture that one is purporting to marry into... certainly doesn't bode well for

long-term matrimonial harmony.

[udon]

Marry an orphan.

[snoophound]

Marry an orphan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By far the most practical and painless way

[cdnvic]

Marry an orphan.

By far the most practical and painless way

Well.....for you it is.

cv

[rishi]

I think mentioning "dowry" and "bribery" in the same breath displays a fundamental lack of understanding and/or appreciation of a culture that one is purporting to marry into... certainly doesn't bode well for

long-term matrimonial harmony.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... well, mr. sriracha, I think the lack of understanding is on your side.

I'm talking about an actual village-wedding, arranged and carried out in traditional Lanna-style conducted by some old guys and women, skilled into the ancient traditions.

The Thais had great fun of the bribery edge. I (the groom) were handed a stack of envelopes. These envelopes I had to depart with, first at the entrance to the street, next at the parents frontgate, next at the parents door, before finally being atmitted to the the room where the bride and her parents were sitting.

First the parents wouldn't let me have their daughter, but after I had offered the dowry and gold, I got their consent.

Nothing serious about all this - just plain fun - we already were a certified, married couple.

The Thais themselves, seldom are too serious about old traditions, but I'd say - that wedding actually did reflect the cultural background of those village-people.

The whole concept of bribery as being something immoral, is strictly a Western invention. To the Thais - and most other non-farlang folks - both bribery and dowry often are called gifts.

To understand that the farlang-attitude towards bribery isn't a God-given universal law, but a farlang man-made invention, is one essential step towards meeting the Thais on their own terms

[sriracha john]

As this is a "farang man-made invention" forum, you missed my point, but that's ok. The vernacular we use ARE going to be the typical usage of terms familar for the farang.

I'm hopeful that the OP can understand the differences between dowry and bribe... which btw, I would not consider the envelopes you gave to the parents as a "bribe," but then I'm an English-speaking farang using the English word.

[rishi]

As this is a "farang man-made invention" forum, you missed my point, but that's ok. The vernacular we use ARE going to be the typical usage of terms familar for the farang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... sorry, I don't agree.. Nowhere in the forum rules i see any reference to any kind of using any specific "vernacular" to be used.

I believe that the major objective of the OP is to get at terms - in practical, real life - with how to cope with the whole and (hopefully) exciting situation, he encounters... Academic discussions on how this or that term is supposed to be understood is totally irrelevant for anyone, but the academics!

[rishi]

Hi all,

Dowries.........

What I would like to know is: is this a common theme in Thailand or between Thai's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... yes, and even if you were a superslender, handsome Thai of a very exclusive Thai inheritance --- you would still have to pay a proper dowry/bribe to to get the consent of your brides family...

Respect and accept, or go looking for some girl of a different nationality...

[sriracha john]

As I would hope you would be able to tell, Rishi... we're on the same page.

My post was merely to point his lack of understanding for the basic premise of a dowry, the differentiation of it with bribery, and an amazement that he isn't aware this is a very common practice for both Thais and farang getting married in Thailand.

His calling it such an extreme term as "anathema" further points out his lack of comprehension and/or appreciation for something different than what he is used to. Given these points, his marriage would appear to be unstable before it even begins.

Edited December 6, 2005 by sriracha john

[zzap]

No dowry for previously married girls with little ones or a"habit"who 'work' in Thermae.

Sorry gov...

Edited December 6, 2005 by zzap

[rishi]

Hi all,

Dowries.........Im seeing this Thai lady and she talks about paying a dowry to her family if we get married. I must say Im not too keen on this 'idea' and wonder what the 'old hands' have to say about it. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...accepted. sriracha... We'll meet again...

[sriracha john]

Hi all,

Dowries.........Im seeing this Thai lady and she talks about paying a dowry to her family if we get married. I must say Im not too keen on this 'idea' and wonder what the 'old hands' have to say about it. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...accepted. sriracha... We'll meet again...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

looking forward to it...

[zzap]

No dowry for old bar-girls, you are beng ripped off already.

leave dowry to the young and beautiful...

[sonnyJ]

I think mentioning "dowry" and "bribery" in the same breath displays a fundamental lack of understanding and/or appreciation of a culture that one is purporting to marry into... certainly doesn't bode well for

long-term matrimonial harmony.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... well, mr. sriracha, I think the lack of understanding is on your side.

I'm talking about an actual village-wedding, arranged and carried out in traditional Lanna-style conducted by some old guys and women, skilled into the ancient traditions.

The Thais had great fun of the bribery edge. I (the groom) were handed a stack of envelopes. These envelopes I had to depart with, first at the entrance to the street, next at the parents frontgate, next at the parents door, before finally being atmitted to the the room where the bride and her parents were sitting.

First the parents wouldn't let me have their daughter, but after I had offered the dowry and gold, I got their consent.

Nothing serious about all this - just plain fun - we already were a certified, married couple.

The Thais themselves, seldom are too serious about old traditions, but I'd say - that wedding actually did reflect the cultural background of those village-people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've witnessed this same tradition in Chonburi, let's say this family was quite well doing in their business. Had the understanding, it's the regular thing at wedding seremonies. I was considering all this evelopes stuff as part of the seremony/fun, and it was indeed, groom being farang..

I would think that a seremony like wedding is important in peoples lifes, and it will reflect the most ancient traditions. Where else to do this?

Basicly the Thai way of many things seems as bribery, but there are other things/reasons as mentioned before in quantity behind this.

Its a different culture!

[sriracha john]

well said, sonnyJ...

you'd be surprised how many people aren't cognizant of that fact...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Right, there's a will, there's a way.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where there's a will there's relatives.