Ambush Brit Fights For Life In Hua Hin

[xthAi76s]

All this reporting of farang being targeted is clearly on the surface, a very disturbing trend. Yet, one thing almost all of the 'innocent' targets seem to have in common is how they have been flaunting their wealth and living a very decadent lifestyle, in a country which has long been exploited by farang (pretty much the whole world has been exploited by farang for the last 500 years). I am sorry to hear of anyone being attacked for any reason, but the one thing many of these 'victims' seem to have in common is that they were drawing a lot of negative attention to themselves. The flaunting of wealth alone does not seem to be a catalyst, but if you combine it with other activities/attitudes, it seems to be a tipping point which leads to these attacks. It is sad that someone living in a mega mansion in a country which is desperately trying to establish a minimum wage of $10 a day, cannot understand why ripping off someone living in a shanty would cause anger and problems. If you do not like the way they work, do it yourself.

I am all for moving to another country and culture, but the very first thing you should do is learn to respect that culture and the people in it. You are a guest, and regardless of how long you live there, you will always be viewed as an outsider by some, if not most people (it is no different for a foreigner in the USA/UK, an accent will always give you away, regardless of appearance). Since you are CHOOSING to live there, it should be because you truly like the country and the people as they are, not because you think it is a good situation for you to exploit and take advantage of.

I agree with almost all of this.

Where I disagree (strongly) is that one who chooses to emigrate to another country need not like the country and/or people, and certainly can and should feel free to move with the sole intentions on exploiting some opportunity. However, as you (and others) have pointed out, one should never remember (whether guest or not) that respect is often going to be key to one's survival -- esp in a place where he/she is more vulnerable.

Millions and millions of immigrants here (Chinese, for instance) didn't immigrate to Thailand with the driving force being their love of the Thais. They came here to exploit perceived/real opportunity. Same most anywhere in the world.

It's nice indeed if you come to like the country and people, but it's not a requirement in business and capturing opportunity. You better know, however, when you're vulnerable.

Edited February 1, 2012 by ThailandMan

[z12]

All this reporting of farang being targeted is clearly on the surface, a very disturbing trend. Yet, one thing almost all of the 'innocent' targets seem to have in common is how they have been flaunting their wealth and living a very decadent lifestyle, in a country which has long been exploited by farang (pretty much the whole world has been exploited by farang for the last 500 years). I am sorry to hear of anyone being attacked for any reason, but the one thing many of these 'victims' seem to have in common is that they were drawing a lot of negative attention to themselves. The flaunting of wealth alone does not seem to be a catalyst, but if you combine it with other activities/attitudes, it seems to be a tipping point which leads to these attacks. It is sad that someone living in a mega mansion in a country which is desperately trying to establish a minimum wage of $10 a day, cannot understand why ripping off someone living in a shanty would cause anger and problems. If you do not like the way they work, do it yourself.

I am all for moving to another country and culture, but the very first thing you should do is learn to respect that culture and the people in it. You are a guest, and regardless of how long you live there, you will always be viewed as an outsider by some, if not most people (it is no different for a foreigner in the USA/UK, an accent will always give you away, regardless of appearance). Since you are CHOOSING to live there, it should be because you truly like the country and the people as they are, not because you think it is a good situation for you to exploit and take advantage of.

This is off topic - but what relly bugs the sh!t out of me is that when "we farangs" go abroad we are expected to abide by every aspect of that foreign land without exception - however, when the shoe is on the other foot and "they" go to "our" countries when are expected to show tolerance ..... not just tolerance, but in some cases relinquish our nations beliefs and culture to make way for the alien..... and God forbid, if you put up any resistance then the full force of the las + every do-gooder in the land comes down on you like a ton of bricks for being "racist"......

Racism is like sexism ..... your only racist if your white complaining about non-whites ...... your only sexist if you're a man...... when prejudice or racism is done unto us (I am white, male) we are expected to appologise for being a victim of it.

So the victim in this case somehow drew it upon himself? Have you not seen the fleets of Mercedes, Beamers, and other status symbols that Thai's drive around in? Should they not practice humility too and come out in sympathy for the $10-a-day workers? Oh, I get it .... middle age white guy has nice house so he's a mug and deserves what he gets?

Don't get me wrong, some people deserve what they get, regardless of race, age, creed, or gender...... because they are obnoxious arrogant nasty sods ...... but the reality for most of us is that these Thai thugs victimise and exploit farangs in Thailand - its plain and simple racism and if it happened in reverse order in the UK or otherwise you would be publicly executed for it.

too true, and it is not just Thailand, it is every other non-white country as well.

Edited February 1, 2012 by z12

[xthAi76s]

All this reporting of farang being targeted is clearly on the surface, a very disturbing trend. Yet, one thing almost all of the 'innocent' targets seem to have in common is how they have been flaunting their wealth and living a very decadent lifestyle, in a country which has long been exploited by farang (pretty much the whole world has been exploited by farang for the last 500 years). I am sorry to hear of anyone being attacked for any reason, but the one thing many of these 'victims' seem to have in common is that they were drawing a lot of negative attention to themselves. The flaunting of wealth alone does not seem to be a catalyst, but if you combine it with other activities/attitudes, it seems to be a tipping point which leads to these attacks. It is sad that someone living in a mega mansion in a country which is desperately trying to establish a minimum wage of $10 a day, cannot understand why ripping off someone living in a shanty would cause anger and problems. If you do not like the way they work, do it yourself.

I am all for moving to another country and culture, but the very first thing you should do is learn to respect that culture and the people in it. You are a guest, and regardless of how long you live there, you will always be viewed as an outsider by some, if not most people (it is no different for a foreigner in the USA/UK, an accent will always give you away, regardless of appearance). Since you are CHOOSING to live there, it should be because you truly like the country and the people as they are, not because you think it is a good situation for you to exploit and take advantage of.

This is off topic - but what relly bugs the sh!t out of me is that when "we farangs" go abroad we are expected to abide by every aspect of that foreign land without exception - however, when the shoe is on the other foot and "they" go to "our" countries when are expected to show tolerance ..... not just tolerance, but in some cases relinquish our nations beliefs and culture to make way for the alien..... and God forbid, if you put up any resistance then the full force of the las + every do-gooder in the land comes down on you like a ton of bricks for being "racist"......

Racism is like sexism ..... your only racist if your white complaining about non-whites ...... your only sexist if you're a man...... when prejudice or racism is done unto us (I am white, male) we are expected to appologise for being a victim of it.

So the victim in this case somehow drew it upon himself? Have you not seen the fleets of Mercedes, Beamers, and other status symbols that Thai's drive around in? Should they not practice humility too and come out in sympathy for the $10-a-day workers? Oh, I get it .... middle age white guy has nice house so he's a mug and deserves what he gets?

Don't get me wrong, some people deserve what they get, regardless of race, age, creed, or gender...... because they are obnoxious arrogant nasty sods ...... but the reality for most of us is that these Thai thugs victimise and exploit farangs in Thailand - its plain and simple racism and if it happened in reverse order in the UK or otherwise you would be publicly executed for it.

You know, I understand your message here. However, as I was reading it, I thought about what could be proposed as another view. Actually, I had two reactions.

1. Not all places are equally honorable -- by this, in my head, I meant to suggest that we can't expect Thailand to follow the same moral compass as exists (with respect to this narrow topic of crime/contract work disputes) in the UK or US. After all, in the West, there has been great effort and sacrifice toward the law and order and manner in which the majority of people conduct themselves.

2. However, I then immediately contradicted myself (in my head) thinking ... well, what if we consider a simple idea (that): time is not linear and progress is not equivalent in all countries but this notion should not lead us to write off nations who have made or appear to have made less progress. It was not so long ago that these types of things were quite common in our own countries and where grossly worse atrocities were committed to various peoples. Violent racism -- British (and Euro) Imperialism, Atlantic Slave Trade (US), Jews in Euro, WWI, WWII, so on and so on.

I am in no way condoning these tragic, cowardly types of attacks, and I know we as foreigners are often much more vulnerable (and targeted) here in Thailand, but I would also, unfortunately, be able to see how someone who is well-read on historical topics such as those I mentioned and others would probably regard these types of events differently and perhaps with less racial or country-specific anger/hatred.

Complicated stuff.

Again, understanding when you're vulnerable and acting accordingly can often, but not always, help protect you and your assets.

[TechnikaIII]

Do absolutely everything you can to embarrass the police. They are a goon squad, with little incentive to convict a local. Even for crimes as horrendous as this one. They need to get black eyes in the press, worldwide, someone in power will take notice, and out of loss of face, something may get done. Do not let it go. Also, we need to start publishing names of the contractors engaging in these practices. They need to be put out of business, and it needs to happen quickly. They only do this kind of nonsense, because there is little chance of getting caught, and paying a price for it, should the tiny chance of getting caught actually happen.

Sorry mate, .. but this brings to mind an expression once aimed at me when I was mouthing off with a similarly hopeless rant:

"Come on, stop pissing into the wind, ... ."

[favre360]

A good number of people I know go to Thailand because of the lawlessness. That being said, you can't pick and choose which laws you want to follow and expect local police to help you out when its convenient for you.

[corkman]

All this reporting of farang being targeted is clearly on the surface, a very disturbing trend. Yet, one thing almost all of the 'innocent' targets seem to have in common is how they have been flaunting their wealth and living a very decadent lifestyle, in a country which has long been exploited by farang (pretty much the whole world has been exploited by farang for the last 500 years). I am sorry to hear of anyone being attacked for any reason, but the one thing many of these 'victims' seem to have in common is that they were drawing a lot of negative attention to themselves. The flaunting of wealth alone does not seem to be a catalyst, but if you combine it with other activities/attitudes, it seems to be a tipping point which leads to these attacks. It is sad that someone living in a mega mansion in a country which is desperately trying to establish a minimum wage of $10 a day, cannot understand why ripping off someone living in a shanty would cause anger and problems. If you do not like the way they work, do it yourself.

I am all for moving to another country and culture, but the very first thing you should do is learn to respect that culture and the people in it. You are a guest, and regardless of how long you live there, you will always be viewed as an outsider by some, if not most people (it is no different for a foreigner in the USA/UK, an accent will always give you away, regardless of appearance). Since you are CHOOSING to live there, it should be because you truly like the country and the people as they are, not because you think it is a good situation for you to exploit and take advantage of.

This is off topic - but what relly bugs the sh!t out of me is that when "we farangs" go abroad we are expected to abide by every aspect of that foreign land without exception - however, when the shoe is on the other foot and "they" go to "our" countries when are expected to show tolerance ..... not just tolerance, but in some cases relinquish our nations beliefs and culture to make way for the alien..... and God forbid, if you put up any resistance then the full force of the las + every do-gooder in the land comes down on you like a ton of bricks for being "racist"......

Racism is like sexism ..... your only racist if your white complaining about non-whites ...... your only sexist if you're a man...... when prejudice or racism is done unto us (I am white, male) we are expected to appologise for being a victim of it.

So the victim in this case somehow drew it upon himself? Have you not seen the fleets of Mercedes, Beamers, and other status symbols that Thai's drive around in? Should they not practice humility too and come out in sympathy for the $10-a-day workers? Oh, I get it .... middle age white guy has nice house so he's a mug and deserves what he gets?

Don't get me wrong, some people deserve what they get, regardless of race, age, creed, or gender...... because they are obnoxious arrogant nasty sods ...... but the reality for most of us is that these Thai thugs victimise and exploit farangs in Thailand - its plain and simple racism and if it happened in reverse order in the UK or otherwise you would be publicly executed for it.

You know, I understand your message here. However, as I was reading it, I thought about what could be proposed as another view. Actually, I had two reactions.

1. Not all places are equally honorable -- by this, in my head, I meant to suggest that we can't expect Thailand to follow the same moral compass as exists (with respect to this narrow topic of crime/contract work disputes) in the UK or US. After all, in the West, there has been great effort and sacrifice toward the law and order and manner in which the majority of people conduct themselves.

2. However, I then immediately contradicted myself (in my head) thinking ... well, what if we consider a simple idea (that): time is not linear and progress is not equivalent in all countries but this notion should not lead us to write off nations who have made or appear to have made less progress. It was not so long ago that these types of things were quite common in our own countries and where grossly worse atrocities were committed to various peoples. Violent racism -- British (and Euro) Imperialism, Atlantic Slave Trade (US), Jews in Euro, WWI, WWII, so on and so on.

I am in no way condoning these tragic, cowardly types of attacks, and I know we as foreigners are often much more vulnerable (and targeted) here in Thailand, but I would also, unfortunately, be able to see how someone who is well-read on historical topics such as those I mentioned and others would probably regard these types of events differently and perhaps with less racial or country-specific anger/hatred.

Complicated stuff.

Again, understanding when you're vulnerable and acting accordingly can often, but not always, help protect you and your assets.

Very well composed. Your point is well made and well received, and on reflection that is a better representation of my thoughts - I did not articualte so well.... with one caveat: while I can understand and accept the prejudice toward us is born principally of ignorance and under-developed systems etc. it does not mitigate the western attitude that very many people have that I should be in some way appologetic for being subjected to prejudice and that it is in some way my fault and their right to exercise. I personally show as much respect for local culture as I can, without compromising my own culture or diginity. I have been told by Thai people that my demeanor is excellent - I am neither rude and leery nor insipid and damure, but a good balance..... I am not Thai, I should not try to be Thai, or I will just be seen to be a fony. Thai's are not God's, they are not my God, nor are they my ancestors - they win my repsect on merit; but one should know when they are vulnerable, exaclty as you say - in my life however I have found that avoidance is better than recourse.

I would add..... it is quite common in western companies for a tradesperson to call to a rich home and think "they've got plenty of money, I'll charge them more" and then go to a fellow working class home the next day and say "they're nice people, I'll do them a good deal". I don't have a problem with "farang price" as such and remind myself that while I get charged 20% more than a Thai, I earn 10 fold what they do for a position of equal experience and qualification - so while they have a smug grin, I am laughing all the way to the bank.

[Roj]

I`ve been here a fair while and my best advice is to blend in and go with the flow. Most tradesman here, although not all, aren`t up to the standard of a time served western tradesman. Best thing to do if you don`t know a competent one is to use one recommended by a trusted, sensible farang. It`s an alien culture here and you have to learn to accept its idiosyncrasies or you`ll go crazy. Most Thais and most areas of Thailand aren`t dangerous. In my experience the most peaceful areas to live are those untouched by tourism.

[corkman]

A good number of people I know go to Thailand because of the lawlessness. That being said, you can't pick and choose which laws you want to follow and expect local police to help you out when its convenient for you.

There are laws, and there are laws ..... some can be bent, while others are enshrined in stone.

There is the cultural perception of severity too e.g. in the UK, have a couple of pints and get behind the wheel or get caught driving at 105mph on the motorway and you will probably see jail time..... while if you get caught with a joint or a small amount of "recreational" drugs for "personal use" you'll probably get an on-the-spot warning and be sent on your way...... here it is the direct opposite.

So - giving the old bill a few hundred baht to turn the other way on a speeding ticket, in my view, is not that big a deal..... because the actual penalty is just a trip down to the station, a few hours delay, and a few hundred baht. You won't see jail time. On the other hand, if you are actually convicted of beating someone half to death, you will see jail time ...... and so "bending" that law is another thing entirely.

But agree - in principle, once you bend one rule then where to you draw the line. The first time you compromise is a moral dilema - after that each subsequent compromise gets bigger and easier.

[Beetlejuice]

When you read the report it says his Brother runs a building Company in Hua Hin?? is that correct. And he hasnt been to visit him in hospital?? Strange story.

Guess he feels terrible he didnt get the buidlers from his company todo the work.

The email they received will have the IP address of the sender by the way. I think u right click on message details. Something like that. Quite easy for the police to track down the sender if it was from a fixed address.

Maybe there is more to this than meets the eye?

Many farangs here prefer not to bring their business activities into the limelight and keep a low profile at times like this.

[manarak]

This is old news and inaccurate. According to Paul's mother Anita, the attack took place on 21 November, not in December.

Of course, and very unfortunately, Paul wasn't wearing a helmet and it was hitting his head on the concrete road as a result of the attack that fractured his skull, not a blow to the head by his assailant who reportedly was armed with a tree branch, not a club per se.

The couple were planning to return home last December. The attack happened on November 21st. I am glad you were a witness to him cracking his skull on the road, perhaps you would go to the police station and make a statement.

flyingsporran, you ride on a high horse here - if what easyas reports is true, it certainly changes the whole perspective of the attack. Yes, the poor guy is still in a probably unrecoverable near death state (brain matter spilled o the road, brr...) as a direct consequence of the attack, but it also becomes clear that this outcome was not intended by the attackers.

I had the same thoughts about helmets - while not wearing one certainly doesn't put the victim at fault for the attack, a helmet would have saved him from serious harm.

Furthermore, "using a few expletives" on the Thai workers and probably their leader probably didn't have the best effect either. This is Thailand, not the UK or the USA, and people have to adapt to the culture.

Of course, all cultural differences and all the above do not change the fact that the victim didn't deserve his fate and it also doesn't excuse the perpetrators and their bosses.

BUT: I can honestly say that with very high probability I wouldn't have gotten in such a situation.

[Escapologist]

time is not linear and progress is not equivalent in all countries but this notion should not lead us to write off nations who have made or appear to have made less progress. It was not so long ago that these types of things were quite common in our own countries ...

corkman was complaining about the cultural Marxism which has undoubtedly done immense damage to communities in the West. One thing that stands out in Thailand is the innate communal character of Thais. Eating in public gatherings together and so on. Outsiders from Western cultural wreckages can only look on with envy. Unfortunately the "progress" to which you allude inevitably involves the destruction of all this. Westerners have already seen the resented fruits of State-sponsored "anti-racism" and the like. As in the West, Thais have a choice between a Thailand for Thais or a "Thailand" for the New World Order. Thai xenophobia is undoubtedly infuriating at times but it is their country and we are not forced to live amongst them. I personally find some Thai attitudes towards foreigners to be disgusting because, whilst I am undoubtedly a 'racist' of sorts, I do not share the extreme Thai levels of fear, distrust and loathing of outsiders generally. However, Thailand is as it is because Thais are how they are. A rough with the smooth situation for most foreigners who want to stay in Thailand!

[loonodingle]

When you read the report it says his Brother runs a building Company in Hua Hin?? is that correct. And he hasnt been to visit him in hospital?? Strange story.

Guess he feels terrible he didnt get the buidlers from his company todo the work.

The email they received will have the IP address of the sender by the way. I think u right click on message details. Something like that. Quite easy for the police to track down the sender if it was from a fixed address.

Maybe there is more to this than meets the eye?

Many farangs here prefer not to bring their business activities into the limelight and keep a low profile at times like this.

You could probably imagine that they didnt mean to put him in a coma. if they had of wanted to kill him they would have shot him.

Falling from anywhere at speed and hitting your head on a hard surface will cause huge injurys. Helping you along the way with a piece of wood didnt help him i am sure.

This doesnt seem like an attempted murder but more of teach him a lesson that ended up with terrible consequenses.

As a side note to the family if the email is sent on Hotmail with the threats you can click the little downward arrow next to reply and then view message source and you will get the IP address. Then go back through all his emails and check them and see if the IP address matches. maybe the contractor for example or another business associate.. if you can match it you have a good link and its evidence of the threat linking the aggressor.

I am sure you can do this with all email accounts i just know how to find it on hotmail as an example

[Hooters]

Very gruesome event. Need to think very hard in someone' elses country; especially if in love. Hope this man gets better and is able to resettle back to their country

his wife says his brains were spilled onto the street. He isnt going to get a whole lot better even if he opens his eyes.

Below is another case same article. so much for Hua hin being a sleepy little resort town

"Charnaud was beaten to death by his Thai wife’s family who then cut up his body barbecued it and fed it to the tigers in Kaeng Krajan National Park, north of Hua Hin."

Edited February 1, 2012 by Hooters

[z12]

This is old news and inaccurate. According to Paul's mother Anita, the attack took place on 21 November, not in December.

Of course, and very unfortunately, Paul wasn't wearing a helmet and it was hitting his head on the concrete road as a result of the attack that fractured his skull, not a blow to the head by his assailant who reportedly was armed with a tree branch, not a club per se.

The couple were planning to return home last December. The attack happened on November 21st. I am glad you were a witness to him cracking his skull on the road, perhaps you would go to the police station and make a statement.

flyingsporran, you ride on a high horse here - if what easyas reports is true, it certainly changes the whole perspective of the attack. Yes, the poor guy is still in a probably unrecoverable near death state (brain matter spilled o the road, brr...) as a direct consequence of the attack, but it also becomes clear that this outcome was not intended by the attackers.

I had the same thoughts about helmets - while not wearing one certainly doesn't put the victim at fault for the attack, a helmet would have saved him from serious harm.

Furthermore, "using a few expletives" on the Thai workers and probably their leader probably didn't have the best effect either. This is Thailand, not the UK or the USA, and people have to adapt to the culture.

Of course, all cultural differences and all the above do not change the fact that the victim didn't deserve his fate and it also doesn't excuse the perpetrators and their bosses.

BUT: I can honestly say that with very high probability I wouldn't have gotten in such a situation.

I was in Bogota on holiday and hooked up with some other gringos/farangs, one being a northeastern USA city guy. I knew how they could be from experience and when our Columbian driver, exmilitary guy surviving several assassination attempts, flashed a look at something this guy had callously but causually said. I talked to him and explained that he didn't mean anything by it, that is just how guys from that part of the world talk, it is normal to them. He relaxed about it then. I told the northeastern guy about it later as well, so he would know to watch how he talked to these guys. He could have very easily been disappeared into the mountains of Colombia.

Edited February 1, 2012 by z12

[manarak]

I was in Bogota on holiday and hooked up with some other gringos/farangs, one being a northeastern USA city guy. I knew how they could be from experience and when our Columbian driver, exmilitary guy surviving several assassination attempts, flashed a look at something this guy had callously but causually said. I talked to him and explained that he didn't mean anything by it, that is just how guys from that part of the world talk, it is normal to them. He relaxed about it then. I told the northeastern guy about it later as well, so he would know to watch how he talked to these guys. He could have very easily been disappeared into the mountains of Colombia.

Good example. I spent some time with an american guy in Thailand, we went to shops, etc. And more than once, the staff talked to me about how rude my friend was. Had to educate him to say thank you, smile and not to just walk away from a conversation. His behavior seemed very rude to me too.

It is easy to understand that this sort of guy easily ends up on the wrong side of people, especially when dealing with petty criminals.

[xthAi76s]

time is not linear and progress is not equivalent in all countries but this notion should not lead us to write off nations who have made or appear to have made less progress. It was not so long ago that these types of things were quite common in our own countries ...

corkman was complaining about the cultural Marxism which has undoubtedly done immense damage to communities in the West. One thing that stands out in Thailand is the innate communal character of Thais. Eating in public gatherings together and so on. Outsiders from Western cultural wreckages can only look on with envy. Unfortunately the "progress" to which you allude inevitably involves the destruction of all this. Westerners have already seen the resented fruits of State-sponsored "anti-racism" and the like. As in the West, Thais have a choice between a Thailand for Thais or a "Thailand" for the New World Order. Thai xenophobia is undoubtedly infuriating at times but it is their country and we are not forced to live amongst them. I personally find some Thai attitudes towards foreigners to be disgusting because, whilst I am undoubtedly a 'racist' of sorts, I do not share the extreme Thai levels of fear, distrust and loathing of outsiders generally. However, Thailand is as it is because Thais are how they are. A rough with the smooth situation for most foreigners who want to stay in Thailand!

Yes, mostly.

Personally, I (a Westerner) love my non-communal style and space and freedom to act alone and without heavy consensus building ... I very much dislike that human interdependence that older cultures exhibit so prominently. But, that's just me. I think that by now, we should have 'evolved' past that kind of thing.

Anyway, I do understand the other portions of your message. However, (and I know you did not suggest this) I don't think the only choices are:

A. Thailand for the Thais

B. Thailand for the New World Order -- tacitly suggesting these two things are mutually exclusive.

I believe you can have both -- a proud country which takes care of its citizen but which also welcomes other, non-natives who demonstrate the "right" or "desirable" characteristics and which will provide for these non-native citizens, guests even, with equal regard -- esp under the law.

The US does it just fine for the most part.

You can define the pride of a country in many ways that don't deal with race and xenophobia. Most have yet to do this successfully, but the US social experiment proves it can be done with some obvious difficultly.

Edited February 1, 2012 by ThailandMan

[maprao]

Is it me or are all the articles on the Drummond site badly written and confusing. English is my first language and I can't make head nor tail of most of the articles written on his website.

[xthAi76s]

Is it me or are all the articles on the Drummond site badly written and confusing. English is my first language and I can't make head nor tail of most of the articles written on his website.

I too had trouble reading this one, and English (American) is my first language. Unless the differences are somehow attributable to his country's take on English, it was pretty poor indeed. I had to read many of those sentences several times to figure out what was going on. Alas, I just started to skim through as I couldn't be bothered to try too hard at this late hour.

[Lockstock]

1. dont withhold payment from a Thai if you are a farang. find another way to solve the dispute.

2. never use vulgar language or raise your voice with Thai people.

3. if you cant follow Thai ways, dont live here because you will get f-ed up sooner or later.

i should add, if u want paradise, go to the beaches for vacation. dont build there. i dont see these kinds of attacks happening in Isaan. when we want paradise, we take a beach trip. we dont try to build a house down where all of Thailand's gangsters, thugs, and politicians live.

Shhh!!! It's a secret

[z12]

Do absolutely everything you can to embarrass the police. They are a goon squad, with little incentive to convict a local. Even for crimes as horrendous as this one. They need to get black eyes in the press, worldwide, someone in power will take notice, and out of loss of face, something may get done. Do not let it go. Also, we need to start publishing names of the contractors engaging in these practices. They need to be put out of business, and it needs to happen quickly. They only do this kind of nonsense, because there is little chance of getting caught, and paying a price for it, should the tiny chance of getting caught actually happen.

I understand what you're saying, but doing that locally in country might be suicide. Doing it out of the country and posting it on youtube and as many global sights as possible will of course embarrass the high ranking politicians and affect their tourism, which apparently is very important to them. Send more suckers with lots of hard currency. And Thai officials seem to respond to youtube exposure of say topless dice shakers at gambling dens. Transparency and exposure is the only thing that will get things to change. The rife corruption thrives because it is happening in the dark and it doesn't get exposed locally because you will end up dead.

Edited February 1, 2012 by z12

[Hooters]

Is it me or are all the articles on the Drummond site badly written and confusing. English is my first language and I can't make head nor tail of most of the articles written on his website.

I too had trouble reading this one, and English (American) is my first language. Unless the differences are somehow attributable to his country's take on English, it was pretty poor indeed. I had to read many of those sentences several times to figure out what was going on. Alas, I just started to skim through as I couldn't be bothered to try too hard at this late hour.

I thought it was just me, I ended up just skimming as well

[epicsessions]

- let him try and get the same work done in the UK for this price! Did he not look around him while he was in Thailand and think 'the levels of workmanship here are not the same as the UK'? If you get Thais to do a job for you, they will do it quickly and often not to a high standard, this is reflected in the price charged.

umm not exactly...lets put this is proper perspective. say i hire a thai to build a "woodaha" and he charges me 3000bht. you say thats a great price, only 100 bucks so if it sux i got what i paid for....FAIL !

lets use the price of a standard thai meal as a yardstick, 30 bht. so the thai can buy 100 meals from his profit. what is the cost of 100 meals in the west? 1000 bucks? so i bet you wouldn't be so nonchalant if you spent that much for crappy workmanship

we build here for the precise reason that we couldnt in our over inflated home countries

and we should pay fair market price. do rich thais pay double for things, i think not

i suggest your thinking may be slightly flawed

[toenail]

Thai newspapers or should I say reporters are a bit nervous to report news about crime or murders that could deal with mofia personalities. Look at what happened to the Thai news reporter in Phuket a few months ago for reporting on "illegal doings"? I imagine this story has more "substance" to it but cannot be reported..or else....

[arthurwait]

Farangs need to realise they are in Thailand. People here do not believe in the law as such, this man withheld 1/3 of the payment for decoration and carpentry work - so that means the total bill would have been for £1200 - let him try and get the same work done in the UK for this price! Did he not look around him while he was in Thailand and think 'the levels of workmanship here are not the same as the UK'? If you get Thais to do a job for you, they will do it quickly and often not to a high standard, this is reflected in the price charged. If you are unhappy with the work, tough, you pay up. This is not the UK and the Thai's have their ways of getting their own back. I've been ripped off in lots of ways while I've been in Thailand, from dodgy taxi drivers to dodgy work but I always pay up, it isn't worth getting involved in any dispute because I know that I'll get smashed round the back of the head when I least expect it.

Anyone that lives in Thailand is aware of these practices. Just look at village life where people borrow money 'poy' - if they don't pay the Thais send the heavies along to visit mum and knock the crud out of her, steal all their belongings and still demand the payment in full! This is how it works here. If you don't like it leave! Or alternatively, do the work yourself.

Also, Thai law will ALWAYS put the Thai first. Often the Police and the courts will go on the word of a Thai despite documentary evidence (video, legal documents) stating the contrary.

[WarpSpeed]

Sadly Hua Hin is no longer the place to consider far too many murders there now as with all Thai towns that grow with foreigners the crime follows..anyone who puts almost half a million pounds into a house here must be delusional or just crazy

Hope this story turns out positive but sadly it looks like it wont; like many I would be surprised if they leave with any of the 430,000 GBP

Thailand is no game and it gets very serious if you cant handle it

You know I dont usually post on messabe boards, especially where Thailand is concerned mostly because responding to silly posts are a waste of time.

However for my first (I think) post to this forum, I have a question.

You say that "Thailand is no game, and it gets very serious if you cant handle it" how would "You" have handled this diffrently?

Well to start with this quote says quite a bit,

It is difficult to believe someone would do something like this for the equivalent of £400”.

It's naive to it's core, life is meaningless here especially a farangs life who owes someone money, people get killed here all the time for less so, you have to measure what you're dealing with and decide how far you want to go with it at what cost? Somewhere in that, is your answer..

Having said that, I wish them well and hope for his recovery it is also true that it seems a helmet would have made all the difference as well.

Edited February 1, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[Escapologist]

I don't think the only choices are:

A. Thailand for the Thais

B. Thailand for the New World Order -- tacitly suggesting these two things are mutually exclusive.

I believe you can have both

I absolutely agree that some peoples can accept some outsiders, in the right numbers, who earn their place and assimilate. Blacks aside, that is what happened in pre-60's USA. Thais would need a mentality change in order to be in that kind of position with the farang though. In your view of "progess", assuming that you are using the West as a template, such a change would have a deleterious effect on Thai culture from a Thai perspective because, as in the relatively individualistic West, it would require (State) coercion and would eat into their communal nature. Indeed, you show me someone who wants to "define" Thai nationality and I'll show you a Marxist - ready to unleash yet more resentment and unhappiness upon the world.

[manarak]

Do absolutely everything you can to embarrass the police. They are a goon squad, with little incentive to convict a local. Even for crimes as horrendous as this one. They need to get black eyes in the press, worldwide, someone in power will take notice, and out of loss of face, something may get done. Do not let it go. Also, we need to start publishing names of the contractors engaging in these practices. They need to be put out of business, and it needs to happen quickly. They only do this kind of nonsense, because there is little chance of getting caught, and paying a price for it, should the tiny chance of getting caught actually happen.

I understand what you're saying, but doing that locally in country might be suicide. Doing it out of the country and posting it on youtube and as many global sights as possible will of course embarrass the high ranking politicians and affect their tourism, which apparently is very important to them. Send more suckers with lots of hard currency. And Thai officials seem to respond to youtube exposure of say topless dice shakers at gambling dens. Transparency and exposure is the only thing that will get things to change. The rife corruption thrives because it is happening in the dark and it doesn't get exposed locally because you will end up dead.

I think doing such campaigns from abroad can be successful.

But statements like "Thai police does nothing", or "Thai authorities look away" will achieve nothing.

I believe the people in charge, from the rank of lieutenant up to the generals, court judges and province governors need to be specifically named, so that when anyone looks their name up on the web, the stories come up, especially in Thai language.

Edited February 1, 2012 by manarak

[z12]

Well, after going to the link and watching the video, the previous poster that said this guy had hit his head on a curd appears to be wrong. The video shows the road and there are no curbs. It looks like a rural open road. I can't see any curbs.

Edited February 1, 2012 by z12

[TechnikaIII]

I am reminded of this movie, that takes place in Bangkok. Shows a lot of the mafia crap, but also showed a scene where after being freindly to the local Thai people and generous with them, they helped protect her from the mafia thugs, but then of course it is just a movie.

"Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li" (2009)

When a teenager, Chun-Li witnesses the kidnapping of her father by wealthy crime lord M. Bison. When she grows up, she goes into a quest for vengeance and becomes the famous crime-fighter of the Street Fighter universe.

Chun-Li lives a calm life with her father, when one day, the local mobster Bison kidnaps her father. After her mother's death, she embarks into a quest to rescue her kidnapped father from the clutches of powerful criminal lord Bison.

"I am reminded of this movie," .... yep

The one way I manage everything, is to see the entire experience in Thailand as a movie, and that to survive, even thrive, is to settle for the roll of Narrator, and if in a scene, as an "extra". I care for neither the Indiana Jones nor the Charlie Chan rolls or anything leading to conflict with the indigenous folk. Not at all. Having a discussion with my ex fiance about money, which she interpreted as a disagreement, triggered an explosive personality change, a scene that rivalled Doctor Jeckle and Mr Hyde. Ha ha .. loving one minute, and a volcanic outburst of vitriolic scorn the next, .. wow .. I was breathless with amazement, shock and awe. And then there was the first van ride from Bkk to my town up in Nakhon Sawan. 5 or 6 vans jostling for position ahead of as many buses, also speeding along at 130, swerving from lane to lane, .. yep, there I was in Star Wars, and the original pod racing scene. Two monks as front seat passengers were happily enjoying the view, as though there were no tomorrow, and at any moment I believed there wouldn't be .. a tomorrow.

I'm putting some money aside to order a Morgan, and it will never be seen on Thai roads. (Ship to Melbourne) When I build a house in Thailand, it will be a modest place, in keeping with Thai standards, all be it with some modern Scandinavian kitchen features on the inside. I am no show off, and this is no place to be anything other than polite and modest, which suits me fine. Start flashing your wealth here, let alone flexing your muscles, and you're asking for trouble.

[z12]

I am reminded of this movie, that takes place in Bangkok. Shows a lot of the mafia crap, but also showed a scene where after being freindly to the local Thai people and generous with them, they helped protect her from the mafia thugs, but then of course it is just a movie.

"Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li" (2009)

When a teenager, Chun-Li witnesses the kidnapping of her father by wealthy crime lord M. Bison. When she grows up, she goes into a quest for vengeance and becomes the famous crime-fighter of the Street Fighter universe.

Chun-Li lives a calm life with her father, when one day, the local mobster Bison kidnaps her father. After her mother's death, she embarks into a quest to rescue her kidnapped father from the clutches of powerful criminal lord Bison.

"I am reminded of this movie," .... yep

The one way I manage everything, is to see the entire experience in Thailand as a movie, and that to survive, even thrive, is to settle for the roll of Narrator, and if in a scene, as an "extra". I care for neither the Indiana Jones nor the Charlie Chan rolls or anything leading to conflict with the indigenous folk. Not at all. Having a discussion with my ex fiance about money, which she interpreted as a disagreement, triggered an explosive personality change, a scene that rivalled Doctor Jeckle and Mr Hyde. Ha ha .. loving one minute, and a volcanic outburst of vitriolic scorn the next, .. wow .. I was breathless with amazement, shock and awe. And then there was the first van ride from Bkk to my town up in Nakhon Sawan. 5 or 6 vans jostling for position ahead of as many buses, also speeding along at 130, swerving from lane to lane, .. yep, there I was in Star Wars, and the original pod racing scene. Two monks as front seat passengers were happily enjoying the view, as though there were no tomorrow, and at any moment I believed there wouldn't be .. a tomorrow.

I'm putting some money aside to order a Morgan, and it will never be seen on Thai roads. (Ship to Melbourne) When I build a house in Thailand, it will be a modest place, in keeping with Thai standards, all be it with some modern Scandinavian kitchen features on the inside. I am no show off, and this is no place to be anything other than polite and modest, which suits me fine. Start flashing your wealth here, let alone flexing your muscles, and you're asking for trouble.

hahaha I had a girl like that, hell they are almost all like that, but the last one was just as you describe. As they say, it is if she is psycho or not, just a question of how psycho she is. I have read here on thaivisa many others running into such situations with the ladies. I too am a low key type of guy. And on the monks, they are happy to die, so of course they are not worried. lol

Edited February 1, 2012 by z12