Survival Guide For Farangs Involved In Business With Thais

[manarak]

Every now and then a new story about a Farang killed because of a financial dispute with Thais pops up.

I'd like to collect recommendations from forum members about how to conduct business with Thais, going beyond the usual advice of "always smile, be polite, don't shout and don't make them lose face".

Let's not go into the field of shady deals some Farangs are involved in, especially in property development, but let's look at more normal business such as:

- building a house

- having work done inside a house

- how to handle advance payments for anything

- what are the best ways to Talk with a Thai about a fault (his)

etc.

For example, if I had a company do work in my house, I would always be present when they are working to check if they work at all and what they are doing, and I would pay them progressively by the day. If construction materials were to be bought, I would have them store them at my place...

I am fairly inexperienced in such matters, and don't know if the above could be put into practice.

All advice welcome.

[rayongtoffee]

We were lucky when we had our house built in Rayong,my wife's uncle was the foreman for the builder,he was on site every day and made sure everything was done properly.We also agreed a fixed price with the builder,we paid half up front and the rest halfway through completion,as i say,we were lucky,an honest,decent builder and a family member working for him.

[Bagwan]

When building a house for my wife in which her sister lives - and takes care of the kids of other family members working in BKK - a friendly neighbour recommended a crew who would put the roof on. The leader of the group asked for payment up front and I said no way and asked him if he paid for a meal before he ate it. I was then told that they would start work 5 days later as that would be an auspicious day. I said be here at 0800 tomorrow or don't bother coming at all. I kept a day's pay in hand until the job was finished.

Early on in the piece I noticed that they were hammering in 6" screws. I insisted that they drill holes and use screwdrivers or I would dismiss them. They duly obliged.

Communication with them was via brother in law and friendly neighbour so that nobody was in any doubt about what I wanted and how it was to be done. Nobody lost face as far as I could tell.

They made a good tidy job of it and they cleared up the mess they had made and I allowed them to take the little material left over. All and sundry then repaired to the local cafe/restaurant where they enjoyed a good celebratory tuck in and quoffed two cases of Chang. They went on their unsteady way with a 200 baht bonus each.

My feeling working with Thai folk is that you have to show who the boss is at the outset, and to never relinquish control - or you'll never get it back. Whoever pays the piper calls the tune or else when you wanted a symphony orchestra you'll end up with a skiffle group.

[vtjforyou]

Just don't be too nice with them, they are not friends, they are workers, and pay when you want, not when they want!

[Beetlejuice]

When building a house for my wife in which her sister lives - and takes care of the kids of other family members working in BKK - a friendly neighbour recommended a crew who would put the roof on. The leader of the group asked for payment up front and I said no way and asked him if he paid for a meal before he ate it. I was then told that they would start work 5 days later as that would be an auspicious day. I said be here at 0800 tomorrow or don't bother coming at all. I kept a day's pay in hand until the job was finished.

Early on in the piece I noticed that they were hammering in 6" screws. I insisted that they drill holes and use screwdrivers or I would dismiss them. They duly obliged.

Communication with them was via brother in law and friendly neighbour so that nobody was in any doubt about what I wanted and how it was to be done. Nobody lost face as far as I could tell.

They made a good tidy job of it and they cleared up the mess they had made and I allowed them to take the little material left over. All and sundry then repaired to the local cafe/restaurant where they enjoyed a good celebratory tuck in and quoffed two cases of Chang. They went on their unsteady way with a 200 baht bonus each.

My feeling working with Thai folk is that you have to show who the boss is at the outset, and to never relinquish control - or you'll never get it back. Whoever pays the piper calls the tune or else when you wanted a symphony orchestra you'll end up with a skiffle group.

If you require any services in Thailand, the first thing is to not have an arrogant approach towards the workers or expect a yes massa response each time you dictate your terms and requirements to them.

Another point is never compare the services in Thailand with those of the West.

There are ways and means of doing things here, many unwritten allowances and rituals to be taken into account. For example if a worker says; he cannot begin work until a following week because he has to go and pick the lum yai fruit during harvest time or has to attend someone’s funeral, than that’s what you do. It`s all part of Thai culture and tradition which was followed well before farangs arrived on the scene.

Another example, if a worker or service provider offers a period of time guarantee on the work, than take that with a pinch of salt, because most of that is rollocks. But you will find that just being polite, reasonable and tolerant will move mountains with the Thai people.

Being demanding, arrogant, intolerant and a complete arse will get you nowhere in Thailand.

[Tonto21]

Hi ‘manarak’ this is not about how you talk to a Thai, descent Thai people don’t rip you off or have you murdered because they lose face….OK, some…..there are nutters everywhere.

I think there are three basic types of ‘farang’ victim in this…There’s the ones that think they are gangsters, come to Thailand and ‘they will sort out the bonehead locals’ they know better! Then there’s the small guy who all his life in the ‘old country’ took shit of everyone and now, he comes to Thailand, he’s got money…All the Thais respect him…he’s made so many friends now….What can go wrong?

Then there are the rest of us…….Just being in the wrong place, wrong time, just like anywhere else in the world.

Touch wood I’ve not had any bad experiences in the 6 years I’ve been here….It doesn’t mean I’m an expert….It means I’ve not been unlucky.

I have to say I’m still amazed how westerners still, in general feel that they have the finger on the pulse when doing a deal, (with someone who does not play by their rules) and get all pear shaped when it go’s south.

Personal, I don’t think I’m smarter than most Thais, (I just don’t process situation, information like Thais) but I understand in a lot of cases, a lot of Thais are more motivated to get what Farangs have than farangs are to keep it!

Any dealings in Thailand….You always have to have an Ace up your sleeve……The secret is holding the other person at arm’s length with him losing more by walking away than staying and completing any deal. It’s not easy for westerner to work like this, we place far more on ‘our word’ or the verbal agreement, not so the Thais.

[cdnvic]

One ridiculous post advocating violence and those quoting it removed. Repeat behaviour will result in a long time-out.

[Ulysses G.]

But you will find that just being polite, reasonable and tolerant will move mountains with the Thai people.

Being demanding, arrogant, intolerant and a complete arse will get you nowhere in Thailand.

I agree. I have done a lot of business with Thais, had only a few bad experiences, a lot of good ones and have never had to act tough to get things done. There are bad apples everywhere, but do not go looking for them for no reason.

[2unique]

Research, research, research as much as possible who you are working with and develop a network of like minded expats for your recommendations. Thai people usually give clues, which arrogance will see you fail to spot, about how they expect to be treated especially when they are lying for face. It's then up to you if you choose to wear it a little.

With a conman who is out to rip you off, all bets are off hence recommendations and research.

I assume any transaction will include an element of the hired attempting to get something for nothing, let's face it we do it and call it bargaining or cunning, so be alert and stay on top of the situation. Know when to draw battle lines and when to allow face.

My foreman wanted money upfront which I'd been warned would go straight to the bookies, meant I had to go buy the stuff myself and leave credit at another store saying I'd pay by credit card at the end but only for stuff that went into my house. We really had to monitor the situation and this was just building an add on.

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[thaihome]

....My feeling working with Thai folk is that you have to show who the boss is at the outset, and to never relinquish control - or you'll never get it back. Whoever pays the piper calls the tune or else when you wanted a symphony orchestra you'll end up with a skiffle group.

Would you consider that advice specific only to Thailand and when doing similar business in any other part of the world it can be ignored?

TH

[4evermaat]

Look for other foreigners/thais that have houses or add-ons that are similar to what you want. Then ask them who did their work and how much does it cost? use other people's experiences to your advantage.

Test build with one aspect of building if possible. Breaking up the project can allow you to see who does quality work.

Thai people tend to take a lot of breaks. Dont micro-manage it as long as they are getting you closer to your goal. But do check in and make suggestions if you realize that a certain fixture is incorrect.

Do not walk away completely from larger projects.

"2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from ThaiVisa app.

[deejah]

one of the best threads i have read here in ages

kudos to posts numbered 5,6,9 and 11

thanks