Are Poor Decisions Spoiling The Game

[carmine]

A much debated subject i know. However in the light of so many aweful decisions littered over the season surely the viewing public deserve to see a fair and honest result. The whole concept of a referee being asked to make the call everytime in real time is ridiculous. They are not to blame and i feel they actually do a very good job under the circumstances. But, the game now is too fast.

Not using technogy readily available is damaging the credibility of the game.

[smokie36]

The second Utd penalty yesterday. "Never in a month of Sundays..."

[mrbojangles]

I will never waiver from the view that I have had for years. It's a must and it WILL happen, when I don't know but it will happen. So, when the technology is already available why are they waiting.

[carmine]

There you go. A bad decision that never had to be that might determine the title. Problem is these howlers are now commonplace. Its damaging the credibilty of the game.

What i would add to my original post is that it would take a huge amount of pressure off the offical. They are under far too much scrutiny to do an impossible job.

All that stopping it is an autocratic, out of touch Swiss crook

[smokie36]

To hear knobhead Neville saying they should have had one in the first half....what an apologist...

[StevieH]

nah, still not for fouls. whether or not the ball has crossed the goalline, yeah probably. referees are undermined enough as it is. particularly by players unfortunately.

would be nice if players were retrospectively punished for blatant simulation though.

[MrRed]

To hear knobhead Neville saying they should have had one in the first half....what an apologist...

He was correct,we should of had 1!

[carmine]

To hear knobhead Neville saying they should have had one in the first half....what an apologist...

He was correct,we should of had 1!

He should give up being a pundit and stick to what he does best. That is being a complete c*ck and the best impersonator of a rat i've ever seen.

[Abrak]

I agree with the Op that the refs are not to blame. In fact I find it amazing how often they are correct - offside decision - commentator thinks its wrong - reviewed in slow motion from 5 different angles and it is usually correct.

The problems are much more tied to this.....

1) Technology is currently the cause of the problem. Before we had technology a 'tight offside call' was simply that - now we can ascertain exactly whether it was right or wrong.

2) The number of red cards issued by refs in the Premiership has approximately doubled over the last 15 years. Clearly say tackles that were not red cards before are now red cards but even if say 40% are disputable it still means we have twice as many disputable red card decisions as before.

3) Because technology gives refs very little leeway under the laws, the laws have been changed to give the refs more leeway. So, for instance, virtually any tackle can get a red card if it is dangerous whether the player gets the ball or gets the player. While this means the ref is 'always right' in his red card opinion, it also just tends to mean that half the refs wouldnt have given a red card in the first place.

As for it spoiling the game. I believe the ref tonight between Liverpool and Spurs is Michael Oliver (although it might not be). The fact that say Howard Webb is as well known as Wayne Rooney should say something. I cant name a single tennis umpire or rugby referee. I used to know the names of a few cricket umpires but with technology I cant name a single one. Foy, Clattenburg, Webb - these are names we shouldnt know. As to whether people are interested in staying up until 3.00am to watch a match that they then discuss was decided on the whim of the ref, that is entirely up to them.

[carmine]

Foy for me is an exception. I think he's a truely appalling referee.

Howard Webb's problem is that he wants to be the center of attraction

Edited February 6, 2012 by carmine

[MrRed]

I think that is inherent in all of them.

Webb uses the 3 second rule far to often and gives bad decisions even after taking this time.

The fact is bad decisions are apart of football and will never change...... humans are only human

[carmine]

I think that is inherent in all of them.

Webb uses the 3 second rule far to often and gives bad decisions even after taking this time.

The fact is bad decisions are apart of football and will never change...... humans are only human

Thats why it needs technolgy that is readily available

[MrRed]

Technology to review every decision?

Or what i do like is the same as tennis give each team 3 challenges a game and then they can go up to refs box and 4th official or maybe the then 5th official and see if he thinks it is the correct decision.

If a player then disputes it further he is dismissed.

[carmine]

Technology to review every decision?

Or what i do like is the same as tennis give each team 3 challenges a game and then they can go up to refs box and 4th official or maybe the then 5th official and see if he thinks it is the correct decision.

If a player then disputes it further he is dismissed.

No not every decision. I would allow most to the discrection of the ref. Marginal offsides, goal line incidents etc. This is just the point. It doesn't have to be for every decision. Ofcourse that wouldn't work. Even if it was just for offsides and penalty incidents it would be a huge bonus.

[mrbojangles]

Technology to review every decision?

Or what i do like is the same as tennis give each team 3 challenges a game and then they can go up to refs box and 4th official or maybe the then 5th official and see if he thinks it is the correct decision.

If a player then disputes it further he is dismissed.

No not every decision. I would allow most to the discrection of the ref. Marginal offsides, goal line incidents etc. This is just the point. It doesn't have to be for every decision. Ofcourse that wouldn't work. Even if it was just for offsides and penalty incidents it would be a huge bonus.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone in favour of using technology wants it for every decision. To me it should be used as a tool to assist the ref (when he requests that assistance). At least that would be good for starters and let it develop from there.

[oldgit]

nah, still not for fouls. whether or not the ball has crossed the goalline, yeah probably. referees are undermined enough as it is. particularly by players unfortunately.

would be nice if players were retrospectively punished for blatant simulation though.

Agreed that players should definitely get banned for cheating and diving.But who tells them to try to con referees? They don't do it off their own back.Go to the root of the problem and dock points off clubs who's player or players are seen,retrospectively, to have tried to mislead the referee.This 'crowding around' referees to try and confuse him in the course of a decision should also be punished.The manager,coach and their staff are teaching these players how to con referees into making wrong decisions,there is no doubt.

However,while FIFA are ruling OUR game,this will never happen.To them,it is 'part of the game' introduced from the continent as another tool to undermine officials.It's now become a non contact sport.

[Abrak]

One thing that is getting totally ridiculous is this. Every top 6 manager claims they are persecuted by the ref. It is total and absolute bullshit.

If you look at the evidence over the last 20 years there have been around 20,000 yellow cards and a bout 1150 red cards

Most of the data is here....

http://www.epltalk.com/dirtiest-teams-in-premier-league-history-1992-2011-29922

Liverpool are the best behaved team in the league!!

Actually I think if you look at the data there is an inverse correlation between league performance and fouls. This is not because fouls creates free kicks which create goal scoring opportunities but simply because if you happen to have Man U in your penalty area you have a likelihood of fouling him to prevent a goal. This might seem obvious but nobody apparently mentions it.

Anyway I find it incredibly boring that top club managers seem to claim their clubs are picked on when it comes to yellow and red cards (simply out of duty) while the reality is that based on the underlying statistcs they are all heavily favored.

[smokie36]

One thing that is getting totally ridiculous is this. Every top 6 manager claims they are persecuted by the ref. It is total and absolute bullshit.

If you look at the evidence over the last 20 years there have been around 20,000 yellow cards and a bout 1150 red cards

Most of the data is here....

http://www.epltalk.c...1992-2011-29922

Liverpool are the best behaved team in the league!!

Actually I think if you look at the data there is an inverse correlation between league performance and fouls. This is not because fouls creates free kicks which create goal scoring opportunities but simply because if you happen to have Man U in your penalty area you have a likelihood of fouling him to prevent a goal. This might seem obvious but nobody apparently mentions it.

Anyway I find it incredibly boring that top club managers seem to claim their clubs are picked on when it comes to yellow and red cards (simply out of duty) while the reality is that based on the underlying statistcs they are all heavily favored.

Can we have the stats on this minus games Howard Webb has reffed. Cheers.

[salty]

FIFA have approved goal line technology at their meeting in Zurich today. Its to be used at the World Club Final in December in which Chelsea will be appearing and at the World Club in 2014. Both systems have been approved.

[smokie36]

FIFA have approved goal line technology at their meeting in Zurich today. Its to be used at the World Club Final in December in which Chelsea will be appearing and at the World Club in 2014. Both systems have been approved.

Interestingly Scudamore is fully in favour....so we may see it in the Premiership for the season after next.

Good news for the game I hope.

[MrMuddle]

I probably watch 4 or 5 Premier League games every weekend, as well as German and Spanish football. I can't remember a single weekend that there wasn't a bad decision by the officials in premier games, (sometimes several), yet there doesn't seem to be the same amount of "mistakes", in the other leagues. I do sometimes wonder if they are genuine mistakes, as some decisions are so obviously wrong that one has to wonder if there isn't some skullduggery going on.

[smokie36]

I probably watch 4 or 5 Premier League games every weekend, as well as German and Spanish football. I can't remember a single weekend that there wasn't a bad decision by the officials in premier games, (sometimes several), yet there doesn't seem to be the same amount of "mistakes", in the other leagues. I do sometimes wonder if they are genuine mistakes, as some decisions are so obviously wrong that one has to wonder if there isn't some skullduggery going on.

This post would sit very well on the Man U in decline thread. In any case I will start by mentioning the "no no it didn't cross the line!" that cost us a CL place....barsteward of a linesman.

[mrbojangles]

FIFA have approved goal line technology at their meeting in Zurich today. Its to be used at the World Club Final in December in which Chelsea will be appearing and at the World Club in 2014. Both systems have been approved.

Interestingly Scudamore is fully in favour....so we may see it in the Premiership for the season after next.

Good news for the game I hope.

Looks like it could be sooner

Technology likely in new season

Goal-line technology is likely to be used in the upcoming season of English football after it was given the go-ahead by the game's law-makers.

Two systems, Hawk-Eye and GoalRef, were approved by the International FA Board (IFAB) in Zurich on Thursday.

The Premier League will enter into talks with the two manufacturers, and Hawk-Eye say they could supply the 20 clubs with the technology for January.

It is also likely to be used in the coming season's FA Cup semi-finals and final.

More from skynews:- http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/7871638/Technology-likely-in-new-season

[smokie36]

Sooner the better....let's trial it at Old Trafford shall we?

[mrbojangles]

Sooner the better....let's trial it at Old Trafford shall we?

I bet out of all the prem managers, Fergie would be the one against this. Especially if it expanded to diving decisions