Thai Army Has Veto Power Over Key Issues: Robert Amsterdam

[CalgaryII]

Regarding the perpetrators of the killing of 91 people, mostly red shirts, in April-May 2010, Amsterdam warned that it could take 20 years to identify them - as it did in Argentina - but added that he's confident "these people will be made accountable"

Don't worry, Thaksin will be held accountable some day. Will be a sad day for the bloodsuckers hanging off of him. Not easy for a parasite to find such a juicy host these days

But what about what RA said?

[samran]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

Personally I'm quite happy that, right now, their is a 'relief valve' in the picture.

Undemocratic as it might be.

Representational Democracy means representing the electorates choices and respecting them.

To give a veto to unelected entities denigrates elected entities and the voters, the majority in the country.

The British Monarch serves that exact purpose. See Australia, 1975.

[CalgaryII]

If the PT were not so corrupt and inept, and did not achieve their mandate based on deceptions, they would have all the authority they need to reform the army and the LM laws,

The majority of voters who elected this Government are as solidly behind it now, as the day they were elected.

If another election was called tomorrow, their majority would most likely increase.

Those facts seriously bring into question your assertions of ineptitudes, deceptiveness, etc.

These voters are not dumb, and I respected them for the last election..

[FOODLOVER]

He is paid by the Shinawatras so he can be discussed as his motives are tainted. With this association he has gained wealth as well as another chin, so is fair game.

But what about what he said?

Mere speculation with paid bias towards the current puppet.

[samran]

If the PT were not so corrupt and inept, and did not achieve their mandate based on deceptions, they would have all the authority they need to reform the army and the LM laws,

The majority of voters who elected this Government are as solidly behind it now, as the day they were elected.

If another election was called tomorrow, their majority would most likely increase.

Those facts seriously bring into question your assertions of ineptitudes, deceptiveness, etc.

These voters are not dumb, and I respected them for the last election..

Unfortunately, your guy has form, He ain't no democrat.

So when your guy is driving the country towards the edge of a cliff, which over the edge lies a sham democracy a la Singapore run by Sinawatrasek and backed by liberally used defamation laws, you can't expect people to place total faith in the ballot box. Sad as that is.

[ozzieman05]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

Thai wife tells me

Before the floods Army where the worst part of Thailand

Thaskin was the hero

Now after the floods all has changed and the Army was always there to help

Thaskin was no where to be seen

You can fool some of the people some of the time

But sooner or later, giving these fools enough rope

They will hang them selves

[ozzieman05]

If the PT were not so corrupt and inept, and did not achieve their mandate based on deceptions, they would have all the authority they need to reform the army and the LM laws,

The majority of voters who elected this Government are as solidly behind it now, as the day they were elected.

If another election was called tomorrow, their majority would most likely increase.

Those facts seriously bring into question your assertions of ineptitudes, deceptiveness, etc.

These voters are not dumb, and I respected them for the last election..

Thai wife wants to send you a message

5555555555

[samran]

He is paid by the Shinawatras so he can be discussed as his motives are tainted. With this association he has gained wealth as well as another chin, so is fair game.

But what about what he said?

Mere speculation with paid bias towards the current puppet.

Agree. After a last meal of Fois Gras and Lobster, Mr Amsterdam isn't going to set fire to himself and his Zegna suit in selfless protest.

[CalgaryII]

So Amsterdam was banned from Thailand until his convicted boss's sibling was "puppeted in" and now he can say what he wants inside the country , Only in crazy thailand

But what about what he said?

[toybits]

Let us put it this way - I am afraid to make any comments about this.

[CalgaryII]

<snip>

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

The 2010 protests were not against the coup. They were against the court's decision to seize Thaksin's assets.

Nope.

A delayed reaction to the coup!

[johnbkk2007]

Whenever one is inclined to criticise this Govts. handling of the flood disaster, I always ask the question, "which nation and leader did better?' I have never received an answer to that question.

Here's number 2:

Wim Kok - The Netherlands 1995

[Soupdragon]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

Do you really believe that if you removed the army from the equation that the current administration would become less corrupt ?

I beg to differ sir, I think it would be open season on the nations assets.

[samran]

So Amsterdam was banned from Thailand until his convicted boss's sibling was "puppeted in" and now he can say what he wants inside the country , Only in crazy thailand

But what about what he said?

I'm pretty sure Mr Amsterdam would run around central BKK in a pink tutu singing the score fromt he Sound of Music if that is what his boss wanted. Probably would be more credible than 'what he said' as well.

[SomTumTiger]

Amsterdam is funded by Yingluck's elder brother, convicted and fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra".

How's it smell in sphinkterville, Robbie? Sell your soul lately?

Perhaps it would be more fruitful to focus on the message instead of the messenger, esp[ecially when in this case Judiciaql actions following the coup are subject to serious scrutiny regarding validity.

When the Army was defending itself against people who threatened the security of the country by threatening to burn down the capital and lob grenades, it is their duty to protect!

Political negotiation would have solved everything. Even after the protesters were trying to be ignored out of existence

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

Stop trying to rewrite history - they conducted negotiations on NATIONAL TV - and the Reds got everything they asked for, including an early election - but the Reds rejected it.

Spin that...

[SomTumTiger]

If the PT were not so corrupt and inept, and did not achieve their mandate based on deceptions, they would have all the authority they need to reform the army and the LM laws,

The majority of voters who elected this Government are as solidly behind it now, as the day they were elected.

If another election was called tomorrow, their majority would most likely increase.

Those facts seriously bring into question your assertions of ineptitudes, deceptiveness, etc.

These voters are not dumb, and I respected them for the last election..

Your "Facts" are not facts - they are opinions from your point of view. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to label you opinions as "facts".

[CalgaryII]

Did Amsterdam only put on all that weight recently? Hope he's enjoying the plush lifestyle, but hey watch those calories and cholesterol levels. Such earnest concern for the welfare of Thailand could have negative stress-related health effects if not managed properly.

But what about what he said?

Please, have you no concern for the well-being of your fellow human bean?

He said what he was told to say, that's a paid lawyer's job. Hey, is it time for some lawyer jokes?

I can understand why one would wish a diversion when confronted with political views that are inconvenient.

[Moruya]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

• Like him or not, he represents the views of a huge electoral block in the country, those responsible for electing Ms. Y. and co. That is why one should pay attention.
  
• In spite of all the electoral faults of Thailand, this Govt. was elected, and is Democratic as a result. For Thailand, this is pretty good.
  
• This collection of individuals were elected in as fair an election as Thailand can muster.
  
• Political appointees after an election are not cronies, but appointees by those who were elected by the people. Next time Abhi. and Co. win an election, they will also appoint people of their own kind - not cronies.
  
• But those "crown jewels" won an election and were the choice to govern thailand by a majority of the governed.
  
• How the flood was handled was exemplary when compared to how other nations and leaders handled their disasters. Whenever one is inclined to criticise this Govts. handling of the flood disaster, I always ask the question, "which nation and leader did better?' I have never received an answer to that question.
  

Are you saying that the electorate voted for Thaksin or Yingluck?

Do you think they voted for the person or the handouts?

Cronies are friends and relatives appointed to senior positions based on who they are not on their capabilities. See the Marcos and Castro families for example.

Your knowledge of English precludes you from understanding the finer points of some of my comments I'm afraid.

If you think the handling of the floods was "exemplary" then that tells me something

[whybother]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

• Like him or not, he represents the views of a huge electoral block in the country, those responsible for electing Ms. Y. and co. That is why one should pay attention.
  
• In spite of all the electoral faults of Thailand, this Govt. was elected, and is Democratic as a result. For Thailand, this is pretty good.
  
• This collection of individuals were elected in as fair an election as Thailand can muster.
  
• Political appointees after an election are not cronies, but appointees by those who were elected by the people. Next time Abhi. and Co. win an election, they will also appoint people of their own kind - not cronies.
  
• But those "crown jewels" won an election and were the choice to govern thailand by a majority of the governed.
  
• How the flood was handled was exemplary when compared to how other nations and leaders handled their disasters. Whenever one is inclined to criticise this Govts. handling of the flood disaster, I always ask the question, "which nation and leader did better?' I have never received an answer to that question.
  

Amsterdam represents Thaksin. That's ALL.

[CalgaryII]

He also has no clue about Thailand, which he clearly proved in all his previous statements as a paid Thaksin lobbyist

A huge swath of the Thai electorate, in fact the majority, would beg to differ with that.

This article demonstrates that he knows very well what is going on behind the scenes.

[myfriendu]

<snip>

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

The 2010 protests were not against the coup. They were against the court's decision to seize Thaksin's assets.

Nope.

A delayed reaction to the coup!

you have not got a clue,all your posts factless dribble

[Moruya]

Amsterdam is funded by Yingluck's elder brother, convicted and fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra".

How's it smell in sphinkterville, Robbie? Sell your soul lately?

Perhaps it would be more fruitful to focus on the message instead of the messenger, esp[ecially when in this case Judiciaql actions following the coup are subject to serious scrutiny regarding validity.

When the Army was defending itself against people who threatened the security of the country by threatening to burn down the capital and lob grenades, it is their duty to protect!

Political negotiation would have solved everything. Even after the protesters were trying to be ignored out of existence

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

Stop trying to rewrite history - they conducted negotiations on NATIONAL TV - and the Reds got everything they asked for, including an early election - but the Reds rejected it.

Spin that...

The Reds accepted Aphisit's offer of early elections - Thaksin overrode it.

The Reds accepted Aphisit's terms for the reconciliation process - Thaksin overrode it.

What does that tell you?

[longway]

If the PT were not so corrupt and inept, and did not achieve their mandate based on deceptions, they would have all the authority they need to reform the army and the LM laws,

The majority of voters who elected this Government are as solidly behind it now, as the day they were elected.

If another election was called tomorrow, their majority would most likely increase.

Those facts seriously bring into question your assertions of ineptitudes, deceptiveness, etc.

These voters are not dumb, and I respected them for the last election..

A majority of voters did not vote for PT and asserting that the numbers voting for them would increase if an election was called tomorrow or that the voters are even more solidly behind the governement is just speculation on your part.

The sad fact is that if the reds were actually a democracy movement, rather than just another power bloc in the mob rule kleptocracy that is the essence of the Thai political system, it would have vast support in this country and could achieve wonders. At the moment you are confined to 20% of the population along with as many people as possible that can be bribed with fake promises during general elections.

Was the country more democratic in 2001 or in 2005? If the military and especially 'etc' were so anti democratic as claimed, can you name another country in SE asia that had a more free press or was more democratic in 2001? Why were there no coups between 1992 and 2006? The reds have a one eyed look at everything in thai society, its about time they opened their other eye.

Edited February 7, 2012 by longway

[DP25]

<snip>

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

The 2010 protests were not against the coup. They were against the court's decision to seize Thaksin's assets.

Nope.

A delayed reaction to the coup!

Merely a coincide that protest began the day after the courts seized 46 billion Baht ($1.5 billion US) from Thaksin! Nothing to see here folks! Ignore the threats made against the judiciary that were made the week before the verdict when Thaksin propaganda rags printed the names, adresses, and home phone numbers of every judge ruling on the case immediately after an article about assassinations. The threats of violence, the seizure of the $1.5 billion dollars, and the violent riots that resulted are not connected at all. None of this is related!

I'm sure all the BS you're peddling with this sockpuppet works very well on people who weren't actually here when all of this happened though.

[CalgaryII]

If the PT were not so corrupt and inept, and did not achieve their mandate based on deceptions, they would have all the authority they need to reform the army and the LM laws,

The majority of voters who elected this Government are as solidly behind it now, as the day they were elected.

If another election was called tomorrow, their majority would most likely increase.

Those facts seriously bring into question your assertions of ineptitudes, deceptiveness, etc.

These voters are not dumb, and I respected them for the last election..

Unfortunately, your guy has form, He ain't no democrat.

So when your guy is driving the country towards the edge of a cliff, which over the edge lies a sham democracy a la Singapore run by Sinawatrasek and backed by liberally used defamation laws, you can't expect people to place total faith in the ballot box. Sad as that is.

I guess that is where you and I differ.

I respect the electorate and the choices they made after a vigorous election campaign by all sides.

Thai Democracy deficiencies aside (think vote buying by all sides), this is still better than anything else.

[whybother]

<snip>

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

The 2010 protests were not against the coup. They were against the court's decision to seize Thaksin's assets.

Nope.

A delayed reaction to the coup!

A delayed reaction.

4 years after the coup. 3 years after an election. 18 months after PPP were banned. 12 months after their previous riots. And, coincidentally, 1 week after the assets seizure.

[CalgaryII]

<snip>

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

The 2010 protests were not against the coup. They were against the court's decision to seize Thaksin's assets.

Nope.

A delayed reaction to the coup!

you have not got a clue,all your posts factless dribble

I will let the readers decide.

[whybother]

He also has no clue about Thailand, which he clearly proved in all his previous statements as a paid Thaksin lobbyist

A huge swath of the Thai electorate, in fact the majority, would beg to differ with that.

This article demonstrates that he knows very well what is going on behind the scenes.

Now it's clear you talk BS.

[samran]

Unfortunately, your guy has form, He ain't no democrat.

So when your guy is driving the country towards the edge of a cliff, which over the edge lies a sham democracy a la Singapore run by Sinawatrasek and backed by liberally used defamation laws, you can't expect people to place total faith in the ballot box. Sad as that is.

I guess that is where you and I differ.

I respect the electorate and the choices they made after a vigorous election campaign by all sides.

Thai Democracy deficiencies aside (think vote buying by all sides), this is still better than anything else.

"Democracy is not my goal" T.Shinawatra 11/12/03.

Sorry fanboy, but you don't even see eye to eye with your boss on this one.

[CalgaryII]

The Reds accepted Aphisit's offer of early elections - Thaksin overrode it.

The Reds accepted Aphisit's terms for the reconciliation process - Thaksin overrode it.

What does that tell you?

• An offer is not an agreement. In negotiations, an offer is subject to:
  

#1 - Acceptance

#2 - rejection

#3 - counter offer

#4 - Acceptance with modification

• The UDD/Red Shirts responded to Abhi's with #4
  
• In hindsight, the offer was a "mafia' offer, to which only #1 was acceptable to those making the offer.
  
• The internal dynamics of any negotiation team are not the business of the opposite. Their only responsibility is to respond to the reaction to their offer........#4 in this case.
  
• Abhi chose not to do so in true 'mafia' offer style, with identical results.
  
• With respect to the reconciliation process, again internal dynamics of one side are not important. Only the positions of negotiating entities.
  
• Message - not messenger, is the crux of negotiations.
  

Edited February 7, 2012 by CalgaryII