Thai Army Has Veto Power Over Key Issues: Robert Amsterdam

[rubl]

Somehow I think if you ask the Thai population what the key issues are at this moment, you will get

- education

- economy & wage level

- prices / inflation

- flood damage compensation

- flood prevention / Water Managent plan execution

[folium]

Somehow I think if you ask the Thai population what the key issues are at this moment, you will get

- education

- economy & wage level

- prices / inflation

- flood damage compensation

- flood prevention / Water Managent plan execution

And if you asked a typical US voter what their main concerns are it is unlikely that the Euro crisis, the growing geopolitical clout of China, the Iranian nuclear programme or global warming would be particularly high up their list even though some or all of these will probably have a major impact on their well being in the medium to long term.

Stare at your navel if you want a familiar and reassuring view. or look around you and give the potential future some consideration.

[letitbe]

I certainly hope it has or Taksin will just more rapidly turn Thailand into his own serfdom which he already has done for most of Issan.

[waza]

<snip>

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

The 2010 protests were not against the coup. They were against the court's decision to seize Thaksin's assets.

Nope.

A delayed reaction to the coup!

haha you have to been joking.........

[rubl]

Somehow I think if you ask the Thai population what the key issues are at this moment, you will get

- education

- economy & wage level

- prices / inflation

- flood damage compensation

- flood prevention / Water Managent plan execution

And if you asked a typical US voter what their main concerns are it is unlikely that the Euro crisis, the growing geopolitical clout of China, the Iranian nuclear programme or global warming would be particularly high up their list even though some or all of these will probably have a major impact on their well being in the medium to long term.

Stare at your navel if you want a familiar and reassuring view. or look around you and give the potential future some consideration.

The OP is what Robert A. calls 'key issues in Thailand'. My post smply indicates my opinion on what Thai would consider issues. Your reply is both off topic and somewhat insulting. Maybe you should follow your own suggestion and try to figure out what Thai consider key issues.

Edited February 7, 2012 by rubl

[shunima]

TS: Time to stir it up again Robert... And Call Gary too.

[folium]

Somehow I think if you ask the Thai population what the key issues are at this moment, you will get

- education

- economy & wage level

- prices / inflation

- flood damage compensation

- flood prevention / Water Managent plan execution

And if you asked a typical US voter what their main concerns are it is unlikely that the Euro crisis, the growing geopolitical clout of China, the Iranian nuclear programme or global warming would be particularly high up their list even though some or all of these will probably have a major impact on their well being in the medium to long term.

Stare at your navel if you want a familiar and reassuring view. or look around you and give the potential future some consideration.

The OP is what Robert A. calls 'key issues in Thailand'. My post smply indicates my opinion on what Thai would consider issues. Your reply is both off topic and somewhat insulting. Maybe you should follow your own suggestion and try to figure out what Thai consider key issues.

No desire to insult (and apologies if any taken) or stray off topic, unlike many of the ranters on this thread.

The OP touches on one of the biggest issues that LOS needs to resolve in the next few years, namely the role of the military.

Ironically Myanmar may yet blaze a path in this respect as it juggles with its over-bearing military and warped constitutiion that enshrines the military predominance. While subtly different,Thailand has a similar tightrope to walk and I will take my hat off to any politician, red or yellow, that takes the first and trickiest steps on that path.

Whether looked at in terms of economic efficiency, democratic accountability or straight ethics, the sooner the military returns to its primary function of securing the nation against internal or external threats the better.

[phutoie2]

I certainly hope it has or Taksin will just more rapidly turn Thailand into his own serfdom which he already has done for most of Issan.

I always thought Mr T's stronghold was Chiang Mai, but I hear he is popular in Isaan too.

[jeffcool]

Somehow I think if you ask the Thai population what the key issues are at this moment, you will get

- education

- economy & wage level

- prices / inflation

- flood damage compensation

- flood prevention / Water Managent plan execution

And if you asked a typical US voter what their main concerns are it is unlikely that the Euro crisis, the growing geopolitical clout of China, the Iranian nuclear programme or global warming would be particularly high up their list even though some or all of these will probably have a major impact on their well being in the medium to long term.

Stare at your navel if you want a familiar and reassuring view. or look around you and give the potential future some consideration.

The OP is what Robert A. calls 'key issues in Thailand'. My post smply indicates my opinion on what Thai would consider issues. Your reply is both off topic and somewhat insulting. Maybe you should follow your own suggestion and try to figure out what Thai consider key issues.

No desire to insult (and apologies if any taken) or stray off topic, unlike many of the ranters on this thread.

The OP touches on one of the biggest issues that LOS needs to resolve in the next few years, namely the role of the military.

Ironically Myanmar may yet blaze a path in this respect as it juggles with its over-bearing military and warped constitutiion that enshrines the military predominance. While subtly different,Thailand has a similar tightrope to walk and I will take my hat off to any politician, red or yellow, that takes the first and trickiest steps on that path.

Whether looked at in terms of economic efficiency, democratic accountability or straight ethics, the sooner the military returns to its primary function of securing the nation against internal or external threats the better.

Totally agree with you but we all know that greed will win over poorly educated politician who only have the interest of their owns pockets.....

Edited February 8, 2012 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[rubl]

Somehow I think if you ask the Thai population what the key issues are at this moment, you will get

- education

- economy & wage level

- prices / inflation

- flood damage compensation

- flood prevention / Water Managent plan execution

And if you asked a typical US voter what their main concerns are it is unlikely that the Euro crisis, the growing geopolitical clout of China, the Iranian nuclear programme or global warming would be particularly high up their list even though some or all of these will probably have a major impact on their well being in the medium to long term.

Stare at your navel if you want a familiar and reassuring view. or look around you and give the potential future some consideration.

The OP is what Robert A. calls 'key issues in Thailand'. My post smply indicates my opinion on what Thai would consider issues. Your reply is both off topic and somewhat insulting. Maybe you should follow your own suggestion and try to figure out what Thai consider key issues.

No desire to insult (and apologies if any taken) or stray off topic, unlike many of the ranters on this thread.

The OP touches on one of the biggest issues that LOS needs to resolve in the next few years, namely the role of the military.

Ironically Myanmar may yet blaze a path in this respect as it juggles with its over-bearing military and warped constitutiion that enshrines the military predominance. While subtly different,Thailand has a similar tightrope to walk and I will take my hat off to any politician, red or yellow, that takes the first and trickiest steps on that path.

Whether looked at in terms of economic efficiency, democratic accountability or straight ethics, the sooner the military returns to its primary function of securing the nation against internal or external threats the better.

Your second reply explains much better what you were trying to say (and I didn't get) in the first reply. Thank you.

In a way your right, but with Thai politics and (my opinion) the current bunch in government not an improvement the military might just add to stability (staying away from coups that is). I certainly dislike a figure as Robert A. saying what his clients probably told him "it's the military'.

BTW 'internal threats' ? now that opens a can of wurms :-)

Edited February 7, 2012 by rubl

[folium]

BTW 'internal threats' ? now that opens a can of wurms :-)

Far from it, that particular can was cracked open long ago and getting pretty stinky, namely the inept, heavy-handed counter insurgency operation in the southern provinces.

The shocking murder of 4 innocent civilians by an ill-trained rabble masquerading as soldiers last week is symptomatic of the politicized nature of the military whose hierarchy are not focused on their principal role.

[rubl]

BTW 'internal threats' ? now that opens a can of wurms :-)

Far from it, that particular can was cracked open long ago and getting pretty stinky, namely the inept, heavy-handed counter insurgency operation in the southern provinces.

The shocking murder of 4 innocent civilians by an ill-trained rabble masquerading as soldiers last week is symptomatic of the politicized nature of the military whose hierarchy are not focused on their principal role.

Moving a wee bit off topic, but I think the attitude of the military down South is more of a general Thai attitude and has nothing at all to do with 'politizising' or 'focus on primary role', IMHO that is

Edited February 7, 2012 by rubl

[MaiChai]

Does Mr Amsterdam understand the hierarchical structure within Thailand? At the top is the royal family, underneath is the armed forces, whose number one responsibility is to protect the royal family, then there is the government and then the people. That is how it is and it won't change. We foreigners may perceive that the structure should be different but many Thais like it the way it is.

I really get the impression from what Mr Amsterdam says is that he has very little understanding about Thais or Thailand. He just sees it from an outsiders perspective.

Edited February 7, 2012 by MaiChai

[waza]

Although the message has some credence the OP doesnt. Having the paid for comment, spin doctor of a convicted criminal who is on the run from justice like Robert Amsterdam tell us that if the army didnt have the right of veto, then his paymaster could have his conviction repealed and he could get back into the business of raping Thailand for all he can amass. A bit like Robert Gabriel Mugabe saying the US should back off because they are interfering with his democratic right to rule his country as an elected leader.

Edited February 8, 2012 by metisdead
Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette. Bold font removed.

[volk666]

Coming back to what he said - where's any evidence that the army is running the country and the current elected government is fully under the military control?

Before the latest Cabinet reshuffle media were full of news about would be ministers flying off to meet Thaksin but no one ever reported of ministers being appointed by the military.

After the appointment all the ministers were showing off their new, bright ideas and no one ever suspected they were reading from a military provided script.

Is someone holding a gun to Yingluck's head as she cozies up to Prem, the biggest villain of Thaksin-Amsterdam narrative?

Is the government being forced to refuse amending the article 112, the only current issue that the military has expressed its opinion on? Even on that topic - Prayuth said what he wanted to say but the debate about Nitirat proposals rages on entirely on its own.

Opposition is taking the government issued decrees about transferring old debts to central bank to court - where is the army's role in any of that?

And what about government's plan to take full control of military reshuffles - the army certainly doesn't want that - who is in charge of it according to Amsterdam?

Frankly, I have no idea what Amsterdam is talking about, it's utter nonsense, never mind him being a paid mouthpiece of a person who, many believe, has an actual say in running the government. Is he trying to protect the government and establish plausible deniability for when things will go very wrong?

[hellodolly]

Coming back to what he said - where's any evidence that the army is running the country and the current elected government is fully under the military control?

Before the latest Cabinet reshuffle media were full of news about would be ministers flying off to meet Thaksin but no one ever reported of ministers being appointed by the military.

After the appointment all the ministers were showing off their new, bright ideas and no one ever suspected they were reading from a military provided script.

Is someone holding a gun to Yingluck's head as she cozies up to Prem, the biggest villain of Thaksin-Amsterdam narrative?

Is the government being forced to refuse amending the article 112, the only current issue that the military has expressed its opinion on? Even on that topic - Prayuth said what he wanted to say but the debate about Nitirat proposals rages on entirely on its own.

Opposition is taking the government issued decrees about transferring old debts to central bank to court - where is the army's role in any of that?

And what about government's plan to take full control of military reshuffles - the army certainly doesn't want that - who is in charge of it according to Amsterdam?

Frankly, I have no idea what Amsterdam is talking about, it's utter nonsense, never mind him being a paid mouthpiece of a person who, many believe, has an actual say in running the government. Is he trying to protect the government and establish plausible deniability for when things will go very wrong?

Finally common sense.

We have convicted criminal on the run from paying his debt to society and he hires a non Thai mouth piece to tell us what is happening in Thailand.

I guess he couldn't find any Thai lawyers low enough to spin his day dreams.

[473geo]

[Were those voters educated in England or Issan where many of the schools don't even have electricity.

Where they are learn to add two plus two with a calculator.

You really are ignorant of Thailand re you not. A head full of ideas based on no knowledge.

The mathematical ability of my nine year old daughter really makes me proud, she works hard at her Issan school

Your disparaging remark underlines an attitude that is the height of ignorance and offensive I am sure to many Issan educated people in Thailand

Apologies for the off topic remark folks

[Siripon]

You continue to show your ignorance The red shirts made demands for modifications witch the Dems accepted. Then the red shirts changed their mind and demanded more modifications.

We call that "negotiation"

And then agreement follows.

I just happen to think it beats killing fellow taxpayers, don't you?

The red shirts agreed to Apisit's decision to hold elections in November and then reneged.

Does Amsterdam know that Thaksin recently changed the Defence Minister because he was too soft on the army?

Regarding paying tax, I'm, not sure how many of those killed paid tax, but for sure tax payers are now supposed to pick up a huge bill for the families of people who illegally seized the city centre.

Let's extend the compensation to those who died in the floods( over 800), the deep South (over 5,000), Thaksin's drug war ( over 2,000), Black May, October 14th 1973, Oct 6th 1976.

Double standards are not acceptable.

[whybother]

You continue to show your ignorance The red shirts made demands for modifications witch the Dems accepted. Then the red shirts changed their mind and demanded more modifications.

We call that "negotiation"

And then agreement follows.

I just happen to think it beats killing fellow taxpayers, don't you?

Negotiation, red shirt style:

RS: "We want A".

Ab: "OK, you can have A"

RS: "What? You agree?? OK, we want B as well."

Ab: "Fine, B is OK".

RS: "Huh? You're not supposed to agree!! OK then, we want C."

[gregb]

The OP touches on one of the biggest issues that LOS needs to resolve in the next few years, namely the role of the military.

Putting the cart before the horse.

The biggest issue that Thailand needs to address is establishing a country where the rule of law is paramount. Then the elimination of Thaksin as a divisive element. After that is done and people feel secure, then and only then can you try and deal with the military.

Until we can all count on the law to protect us, we need the military to act as a final arbiter against injustice.

[CalgaryII]

You continue to show your ignorance The red shirts made demands for modifications witch the Dems accepted. Then the red shirts changed their mind and demanded more modifications.

We call that "negotiation"

And then agreement follows.

I just happen to think it beats killing fellow taxpayers, don't you?

Negotiation, red shirt style:

RS: "We want A".

Ab: "OK, you can have A"

RS: "What? You agree?? OK, we want B as well."

Ab: "Fine, B is OK".

RS: "Huh? You're not supposed to agree!! OK then, we want C."

Nope

Not the way it was, and you know it.

"Mafia offers" are not agreement, but their outcomes are the same.

We were all witness to that.

[Insight]

Donations BTW, that came from poor people. As much as we tried, no-one appeared out of the huge, palatial homes to contribute. And we knew they were home, by their vehicles and doors open.

Well the red shirts still have a bit of an image problem in Bangkok, mainly owing to their tendencies to "smash the place up" and "burn it to the ground" when they can't get their own way. If you were wearing all your red "Truth Today" (vomit) barb when you had your tin out, surely you can understand why people are somewhat hesitant.

That besides, as with all charitable causes the Thais are occasionally asked to donate to (tsunami, orphanages, floods etc), the people in my office and my wife's friends donated both their money and their own time very generously, as they always do. Way above the norm of what I see when people are asked to make donations in the UK.

Unfortunately, these donations decreased significantly when the various pictures and videos depicting Thaksin taking credit for these donations came about. They came to a complete stop when the footage of the supplies floating around the flooded and vacated Don Muang airport emerged.

Sad, really. A small amount of very greedy people ruining the goodwill of the many. But that's Thailand.

[Reasonableman]

You continue to show your ignorance The red shirts made demands for modifications witch the Dems accepted. Then the red shirts changed their mind and demanded more modifications.

We call that "negotiation"

And then agreement follows.

I just happen to think it beats killing fellow taxpayers, don't you?

Negotiation, red shirt style:

RS: "We want A".

Ab: "OK, you can have A"

RS: "What? You agree?? OK, we want B as well."

Ab: "Fine, B is OK".

RS: "Huh? You're not supposed to agree!! OK then, we want C."

Nope

Not the way it was, and you know it.

"Mafia offers" are not agreement, but their outcomes are the same.

We were all witness to that.

I know it was not the way you want to rewrite it. All the regurgitated, obnoxious, mindless, divisive, hate-tainted, repetitive slogans, again and again. No amount of arrogant repetitive verbosity on your part will change the facts.

[Insight]

But it was also fun. Especially for a Farang. Gives one some idea how a celebrity is treated.

Guess a taking a few photos would of been difficult to resist....?

[Reasonableman]

But it was also fun. Especially for a Farang. Gives one some idea how a celebrity is treated.

Guess a taking a few photos would of been difficult to resist....?

Mandatory, for some.

[sparebox2]

All I can say is that Mr. Amsterdam have a few valid points there.

[whybother]

Their feeble resistance by taxpayers to armed might cannot be characterized as being anarchic, or anti-social as some try to define it.

It was standing up for the political right to govern when one is in the majority.

"Feeble resistance" with guns and grenades is very anarchic and anti-social.

I think you will find that the red shirts are not in the majority.

[Insight]

Their feeble resistance by taxpayers to armed might cannot be characterized as being anarchic, or anti-social as some try to define it.

Woooahh... "taxpayers"? Who do you consider the taxpayers here? The red shirts, or the Bankokians?

[CalgaryII]

I know it was not the way you want to rewrite it. All the regurgitated, obnoxious, mindless, divisive, hate-tainted, repetitive slogans, again and again. No amount of arrogant repetitive verbosity on your part will change the facts.

The facts are as I've stated them.

Inconvenient as they may be to the political comfort zone they have created for themselves in this regard..

[CalgaryII]

deleted by self...double post.

Edited February 8, 2012 by CalgaryII