Traffic Solutions?

[cathy211]

What do you think would help the flow?

[LennyW]

Very simple.....take 70% of the Baht buses off the road with immediate effect and strictly enforce parking regulations, no need for consulting / studying companies - there is your answer for free!

[Gone]

I don't see any problems. Patience is the virtue. All the roads are just fine as far as I'm concerned. Changing anything would only confuse people more.

[patsfangr]

Agree totally with Border Riever's points. But I have a couple more to add.

In addition to enforcing parking regulations, enforce TRAFFIC regulations - especially with regard to motorbikes!

Secondly, totally ban motorbikes with side carts. They are the single most disruptive vehicle on the roads here.

Finally, spend some money for real driver education for all drivers. Require it for the issuance of any license.

NOW, we're done!

[cathy211]

Very simple.....take 70% of the Baht buses off the road with immediate effect and strictly enforce parking regulations, no need for consulting / studying companies - there is your answer for free!

Baht buses control the speed of traffic. Very useful.

2 cars coming in opposite directions on soi 11 (aka Soi Honey) is ridiculous.

[thrilled]

I like songthews,I don't have any problem with them.But then I use them on a regular basis.

I believe traffic moves ok ,most of the time.

[Jayman]

Very simple.....take 70% of the Baht buses off the road with immediate effect and strictly enforce parking regulations, no need for consulting / studying companies - there is your answer for free!

I fully agree with this and would also ban the large tour buses on the smaller sois.

Of course without driving laws enforcement it's all a big joke.

[Jingthing]

Oh, that's great. We have no taxi system. We have no regular bus system. No subway. No electric street cars. No skytrain. So trash the only transport system that DOES exist for those not using private vehicles and replace it with nothing. Bloody brilliant.

[Jayman]

Oh, that's great. We have no taxi system. We have no regular bus system. No subway. No electric street cars. No skytrain. So trash the only transport system that DOES exist for those not using private vehicles and replace it with nothing. Bloody brilliant.

No one is saying to trash it jt but just go outside and you will see far too many empty Sontagws. They pollute the air, waste resources, create massive traffic congestion, and the way they drive is a danger to other drivers. Fact IS there are far too many of them on the roads here in town. Funny how you don't see very many driving around on the dark side.

Years ago when I used to visit AC in the PI you would never see empty Jeepnees driving around. They also didn't have near as many and I bet the drivers can make a better living when not fighting for customers and wasting fuel driving empty.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Jayman

[SimonD]

The most obvious area for improvement I can see would be to allow two-line working at the major intersections. At present it's four-way with one file moving and the other three stationary and fuming. Two-line (or opposing) working would see east & west having green together, followed by north & south together and would halve the time spent waiting. A typical junction that would benefit from this is 3rd & South.

It would of course mean educating the Thais to give way (!) to oncoming traffic when trying to turn right or putting in dedicated right turn only lanes where they would be more beneficial than a left turn. The only junction that comes close to working like this is 2nd & Klang, but of course there is no left turn from Klang onto 2nd there so it has a head start anyway.

The observation about the lack of songthaews on the Darkside is very true. There are a large number of westerners living out there but one really has to have own transport to get into Pattaya, especially after dark. Better regulation of the songthaews is needed to provide regular services 24/7 on all major routes in the area and not just bumper to bumper on Beach and 2nd during the day. Most days you could walk from Dolphin roundabout to Walking Street just by using the roofs of the bloody things!

Oh well, dream on...

Edited February 11, 2012 by SimonD

[PattayaParent]

Oh, that's great. We have no taxi system. We have no regular bus system. No subway. No electric street cars. No skytrain. So trash the only transport system that DOES exist for those not using private vehicles and replace it with nothing. Bloody brilliant.

No one is saying to trash it jt but just go outside and you will see far too many empty Sontagws. They pollute the air, waste resources, create massive traffic congestion, and the way they drive is a danger to other drivers. Fact IS there are far too many of them on the roads here in town. Funny how you don't see very many driving around on the dark side.

Years ago when I used to visit AC in the PI you would never see empty Jeepnees driving around. They also didn't have near as many and I bet the drivers can make a better living when not fighting for customers and wasting fuel driving empty.

You just have to stand at any spot on Second Rd. and count 9 out of 10 songthaews going past with 1 or no riders in them and then go to Third Rd., North Rd. or Theppraya and you'll find no songthaews at all.

And keeping the half empty tour buses out of town would be good too, especially those ones that block all the lanes on Beach Rd. to make a turn up Soi 12.

[crobe]

i think you need a few solutions in parallel

1) Introduce the sprinter train service every 30 minutes from pattaya to the airport - taking away a lot of the - dangerous - minivan taxis - and at Pattaya station introduce a parking area for Sontaews, standard 20 baht fare to any area in Pattaya - large hotels could have their own dedicated free sontaews.

2) Introduce a large free parking area at the junction of the motorway 7 and Sukhumvit - again a sontaew service into town.

3) Introduce proper parking bays and meters on all roads from sukhumvit (Nua, Klang, Tai) into pattay and also on beach road, second and third road - operate them from midday to midnight - no exceptions for "motorbike renters" - they should have a proper premises and not use the public roads

4) No traffic on all sois from second road to beach road from midday to midnight (have to leave the mornings free for deliveries) - use a raising bollard system on the entrances to each soi to enforce this.

5) An incorruptable (ha-ha) traffic police service that will ticket double and triple parkers and illegal parking, given the latest tools (video headsets linked back to a base), and the authority to have serial offenders or those that have not paid tickets towed away.

6) Enforce a strict 1 meter pavement (sidewalk) on the shop side of beach road - fine any shop or stall encroaching on this.

The parking fees and fines will cover the costs of enforcement

Crobe

Edited February 12, 2012 by crobe

[JSixpack]

Great suggestions. But nothing's gonna help much until the baht bus situation is fixed.

I think it would help if traffic directions on Beach Rd and 2nd Rd were each reversed. It would certainly help the Dolphin Roudabout problem.

[PattayaParent]

Great suggestions. But nothing's gonna help much until the baht bus situation is fixed.

I think it would help if traffic directions on Beach Rd and 2nd Rd were each reversed. It would certainly help the Dolphin Roudabout problem.

The Dolphn Roundabout problem is caused by drivers not giving way to traffic on the roundabout as they should.

This can be easily solved by putting lights there as well as, or instead of, the roundabout.

Edited February 12, 2012 by PattayaParent

[timekeeper]

make the beach road/second road circuit run the other way round

beach road travel from south to north

car/ motorbike parking at beachside,

coaches off load onto beachside instead of double parking to do so

passengers would not have to cross the road to get to beach

i travel the beach road every day and it would be so much easier and traffic would flow better

[OneZero]

I think it would help if traffic directions on Beach Rd and 2nd Rd were each reversed. It would certainly help the Dolphin Roudabout problem.

My first reaction: Sounds like a good idea to reverse the flow. Question for the readers:

Where / what negatives might there be arising from that? Ideas for discussion please.

[crobe]

The way to fix the baht bus problem is to have dedicated routes and limit the numbers - at the moment it is very difficult to know which baht buses go up the various roads away from 2nd road, or whether they just turn around and go in a circle on the 2nd road/ beach road circuit.

There are too many on this circuit and not enough going on other routes.

It would be better to have a coloured badge for the baht buses so that you would know the circle route, the jomtien route, the naklua route, the Tai route, the Klang route, the Nua route etc.

They tried this with an aircon bus service, but it disappeared, not surprising given the amount of competition from the baht buses.

There needs to be a limit on the number of baht buses on the main route.

If you reverse the flow of Beach road and second road there could be some advantages, however, the majority of poeple using the baht buses on beach road get off at shops, bars, restaurants etc - on the shop side of the road not the beach side, so you would increase the numbers of people crossing, or more likely, the baht buses would just swing across to the shop side to set down and pick up and block everyone else, so no real benefit

Crobe

[denboy]

Three suggestions to help the trafficc flow.

Half the Bhat buse's on the road each day by using alternative cab numbers, odd ending numbers one day, even the next. porbably benefit both the trafficc and the operators.

Tour bus's should discharge at the Bali Hi pier and all boats should operate from there, I believe that was supposed to happen some years ago.

All motor bike renting should be done from one fixed point such as the vacant area near to Mike shopping mall.

Nothing will ever happen of course but one can live in hope.

[patsfangr]

(A brief caveat. I live on the Darkside, and have very limited experience with the baht buses in the beach area.)

OK, here's what totally bewilders me. Several people who appear to be familiar with the baht bus traffic and use in the area have said that they most often see the majority of the baht buses on the Beach Rd - 2nd Road circuit either empty, or with only 1 or 2 passengers. They say that there seems to be a shortage of baht buses along other major roads downtown. If I ran a baht bus, I'd want to maximize the number of passengers that I transport every day.

Sooooo ... why the h-ll don't the drivers themselves restructure the routes to provide maximum passengers? Can they possibly be so stupid that they don't realize that there are passengers needing transportation in other areas, while they're driving empty trucks on Beach and 2nd Roads?

[Forkinhades]

I don't see any problems. Patience is the virtue. All the roads are just fine as far as I'm concerned. Changing anything would only confuse people more.

are you out of your mind?

[Jingthing]

The baht bus "collective" has ZERO interest in serving the majority of the land mass in the region with BUS service. You see empty buses, do you? They are trolling for rip off charter taxi fares to serve the non standard regions, so if you want public transport to those areas you have NO choice. People who don't regularly ride the system don't realize that many of these empties will NOT pick up bus riders, and in high season many of the actual buses are over packed. You want a baht bus on 3rd road? Forget about it. The taxi meters? Clearly a game to ensure continued total control of the system here as they aren't actually taxi meters. Owned by the baht bus collective. I hope you get it now. That power structure needs radical change or indeed there is no transport reform. This totally corrupt system forces many more people into private cars and cycles than are necessary. Its a tragedy for this growing city but the status quo lives.

You may think Bangkok traffic is a nightmare, but imagine Bangkok without:

large cheap buses

real taxi meters

skytrain

MRT subway

You see, that is the key to help the private vehicle traffic problems in the Pattaya region -- the PUBLIC transport system needs a modern, sophisticated, integrated approach and yes is COULD cover the entire region, as Bangkok does.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jayman]

The baht bus "collective" has ZERO interest in serving the majority of the land mass in the region with BUS service. You see empty buses, do you? They are trolling for rip off charter taxi fares to serve the non standard regions, so if you want public transport to those areas you have NO choice. People who don't regularly ride the system don't realize that many of these empties will NOT pick up bus riders, and in high season many of the actual buses are over packed. You want a baht bus on 3rd road? Forget about it. The taxi meters? Clearly a game to ensure continued total control of the system here as they aren't actually taxi meters. Owned by the baht bus collective. I hope you get it now. That power structure needs radical change or indeed there is no transport reform. This totally corrupt system forces many more people into private cars and cycles than are necessary. Its a tragedy for this growing city but the status quo lives.

You may think Bangkok traffic is a nightmare, but imagine Bangkok without:

large cheap buses

real taxi meters

skytrain

MRT subway

You see, that is the key to help the private vehicle traffic problems in the Pattaya region -- the PUBLIC transport system needs a modern, sophisticated, integrated approach and yes is COULD cover the entire region, as Bangkok does.

You are talking about putting a lot of baht bus drivers out of business and for that reason I don't think anything will change for the better re public transpo in Pattaya.

[Jingthing]

The baht bus "collective" has ZERO interest in serving the majority of the land mass in the region with BUS service. You see empty buses, do you? They are trolling for rip off charter taxi fares to serve the non standard regions, so if you want public transport to those areas you have NO choice. People who don't regularly ride the system don't realize that many of these empties will NOT pick up bus riders, and in high season many of the actual buses are over packed. You want a baht bus on 3rd road? Forget about it. The taxi meters? Clearly a game to ensure continued total control of the system here as they aren't actually taxi meters. Owned by the baht bus collective. I hope you get it now. That power structure needs radical change or indeed there is no transport reform. This totally corrupt system forces many more people into private cars and cycles than are necessary. Its a tragedy for this growing city but the status quo lives.

You may think Bangkok traffic is a nightmare, but imagine Bangkok without:

large cheap buses

real taxi meters

skytrain

MRT subway

You see, that is the key to help the private vehicle traffic problems in the Pattaya region -- the PUBLIC transport system needs a modern, sophisticated, integrated approach and yes is COULD cover the entire region, as Bangkok does.

You are talking about putting a lot of baht bus drivers out of business and for that reason I don't think anything will change for the better re public transpo in Pattaya.

No I'm not! I'm talking about there being a massive taxi car fleet using the meters, like in Bangkok, and many of the baht bus drivers could work as taxi drivers. Yes it would mean fewer trucks and more cars. It is the SAME company that owns the "taxis" and trucks, which is of course the root of this corrupt flawed system. I agree about more routes, with predictable runs, covering the entire region. The fact there are no baht buses on 3rd road tells you how crazy the current system is. I agree this isn't likely to change though. Edited February 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[PattayaParent]

(A brief caveat. I live on the Darkside, and have very limited experience with the baht buses in the beach area.)

OK, here's what totally bewilders me. Several people who appear to be familiar with the baht bus traffic and use in the area have said that they most often see the majority of the baht buses on the Beach Rd - 2nd Road circuit either empty, or with only 1 or 2 passengers. They say that there seems to be a shortage of baht buses along other major roads downtown. If I ran a baht bus, I'd want to maximize the number of passengers that I transport every day.

Sooooo ... why the h-ll don't the drivers themselves restructure the routes to provide maximum passengers? Can they possibly be so stupid that they don't realize that there are passengers needing transportation in other areas, while they're driving empty trucks on Beach and 2nd Roads?

They're not allowed to, the baht bus mafia control how they can operate, same as the (non)meter taxis who could actually make money if they were allowed to roam and pick up passengers instead of sitting empty waiting for gullible tourists.

See Jingthing's posts above and his many other previous posts on the transport farce that exists in Pattaya.

[Jayman]

The baht bus "collective" has ZERO interest in serving the majority of the land mass in the region with BUS service. You see empty buses, do you? They are trolling for rip off charter taxi fares to serve the non standard regions, so if you want public transport to those areas you have NO choice. People who don't regularly ride the system don't realize that many of these empties will NOT pick up bus riders, and in high season many of the actual buses are over packed. You want a baht bus on 3rd road? Forget about it. The taxi meters? Clearly a game to ensure continued total control of the system here as they aren't actually taxi meters. Owned by the baht bus collective. I hope you get it now. That power structure needs radical change or indeed there is no transport reform. This totally corrupt system forces many more people into private cars and cycles than are necessary. Its a tragedy for this growing city but the status quo lives.

You may think Bangkok traffic is a nightmare, but imagine Bangkok without:

large cheap buses

real taxi meters

skytrain

MRT subway

You see, that is the key to help the private vehicle traffic problems in the Pattaya region -- the PUBLIC transport system needs a modern, sophisticated, integrated approach and yes is COULD cover the entire region, as Bangkok does.

You are talking about putting a lot of baht bus drivers out of business and for that reason I don't think anything will change for the better re public transpo in Pattaya.

No I'm not! I'm talking about there being a massive taxi car fleet using the meters, like in Bangkok, and many of the baht bus drivers could work as taxi drivers. Yes it would mean fewer trucks and more cars. It is the SAME company that owns the "taxis" and trucks, which is of course the root of this corrupt flawed system. I agree about more routes, with predictable runs, covering the entire region. The fact there are no baht buses on 3rd road tells you how crazy the current system is. I agree this isn't likely to change though.

The fact is that to reduce the traffic we need to remove some of these excess vehicles from the road. Any public transpo shuffle is going to take baht bus drivers off the road cause there are just too many of them. Doesn't matter if you reshuffle them to new routes, there are still too many. I'm all for changing the system to be more safe on the roads, cost effective, lucrative for the drivers, and convenient for the customers but I don't see how you will get any worthwhile changes through while the baht bus association makes sooo much selling the license to baht bus drivers and cutting them back would effect those that control them.

I find when looking at most situations it's easiest to step back and look at who benefits the most financially by the current system. It's not the meter taxis drivers. It's not the baht bus drivers. It's not the tour buses. It's the ones that sell the licenses to the baht buses. They have way oversold the market and collect fees from each driver on an annual basis. They are the ones that make all the money and don't care how much the drivers make/don't make due to too much competition. They sell as many licenses as they can to pad their pockets. Now good luck changing that.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Jayman

[Jingthing]

We agree but from different angles. It's not the drivers. It's the power behind the drivers.

Think Sicily. The only way to break the corrupt power structure is for a dedicated, idealistic OUTSIDE NATIONAL FORCE that really is an advocate for the entire public coming in and breaking it up. Thailand isn't even remotely close to having the political will for that to happen. Yes, maybe never.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jayman]

We agree but from different angles. It's not the drivers. It's the power behind the drivers.

100% we definitely agree on that.

[Gone]

I don't see any problems. Patience is the virtue. All the roads are just fine as far as I'm concerned. Changing anything would only confuse people more.

are you out of your mind?

I live here don't I ?

Only one thing to say: You can't change the traffic. It will always be bad no matter what anyone does. But keep dreaming.