Late Condo Finishing Date -- Floods, Compensation?

[meand]

My condo, which I have been making payments on, is really supposed to be finished early March 2012 (in a few weeks). They are behind schedule, which they ASSURED me (verbally) would never happen when I bought, and I am wondering if in general the whole flood situation is in fact a good excuse for their lateness. All the documentation I have is in Thai, even their website is in Thai. Forgive if my questions seems naive, but should I be pushing for any type of compensation? I would be interested in hearing anything you guys have to say, thanks in advance. This is my first condo/property purchase btw.

[stoneyboy]

I guess if you give some more info such as location,company etc etc,someone may help,I personally can not,good luck though hope it gets sorted.

Sent from stoney's iPad using ThaiVisa app

[hhgz]

When you sign a contract to purchase a condo, you should have stipulated a clause regarding compensation for the late completion. My guess is that your contract does not include anything of the sort. Accordingly, I think that you're out of luck.

[arkom]

When you sign a contract to purchase a condo, you should have stipulated a clause regarding compensation for the late completion. My guess is that your contract does not include anything of the sort. Accordingly, I think that you're out of luck.

Correct, they should have discussed it with you prior to signing the contract. In normal cases they compensate a certain amount per day it is delayed.

Edited February 13, 2012 by arkom

[meand]

Thanks all. I have been trying to "work" my way through the Thai documentation. The one thing that popped out was that they were supposed to send me a letter or some sort of notification if they were going to be late, which they never did. In fact, I still have no idea when they will finish.

Anyway, I just wondered if there was some general input on this. I think what i'll end up doing is putting up a bit of a stink and see what that brings, but beyond that, i'm not sure it is even worth it to get all worked up about it.

The one thing I will say, and this is still so ironic to me, is that I literally had one question through the whole purchasing process... "what happens if you are late." I just got a "oh, this company has NEVER been late, not even one time." I did say, yes, but what if.... then the old no understandi english popped in. Live and learn I guess.

[meand]

When you sign a contract to purchase a condo, you should have stipulated a clause regarding compensation for the late completion. My guess is that your contract does not include anything of the sort. Accordingly, I think that you're out of luck.

Correct, they should have discussed it with you prior to signing the contract. In normal cases they compensate a certain amount per day it is delayed.

But, if you take the average contract (which mine may or may not be), would the floods actually be stipulated as being a legitimate reason for being delayed? As in no need to compensate.

I think in my situation it is just best to do my best and see what happens. Thanks for that info.

Edited February 15, 2012 by meand

[meand]

I guess if you give some more info such as location,company etc etc,someone may help,I personally can not,good luck though hope it gets sorted.

Sent from stoney's iPad using ThaiVisa app

Thanks,

It is Ideo Blucove near Udom Suk BTS.

[arkom]

Thanks all. I have been trying to "work" my way through the Thai documentation. The one thing that popped out was that they were supposed to send me a letter or some sort of notification if they were going to be late, which they never did. In fact, I still have no idea when they will finish.

The one thing I will say, and this is still so ironic to me, is that I literally had one question through the whole purchasing process... "what happens if you are late." I just got a "oh, this company has NEVER been late, not even one time." I did say, yes, but what if.... then the old no understandi english popped in. Live and learn I guess.

They should able to at least tell when the new completion date is. If not I would recommend you demand a refund or compensation.

A friend of mine bought a condo from Prueksa and it behind schedule so bad, they were able to get their money back and buy from another developer.

[trajan]

if your condo purchasing contract was after July 2008, it is legally required to be in the standard contract form Or. Chor. 22

in standard contract form Or. Chor. 22, Section 7.3.1, if the seller does not transfer ownership of the unit to the buyer within the time stipulated in Section 4 of the contract, then buyer has the right to terminate the agreement and demand refund of all payments made plus interest stated in such clause (the interest rate stated cannot be lower than that rate charge by seller against a buyer default). [Example, one of my condo purchase contracts has 7.5% per annum].

In Section 7.3.2, if buyer does not want to terminate the contract, buyer can charge a daily default fine of the percentage stated in Section 7.3.2 (not less than 0.01% of the unit price, but up to an aggregate max of 10% of the unit price). If after 10% is accrued and charged and buyer views that seller cannot perform, buyer can terminate the agreement.

Lastly, in standard Section 7.3.3, if seller cannot finish the condo project because of force majeure reasons, seller can refund all payments already made by buyer plus interest at the max interest rate for fixed deposits quoted by KTB Bank.

If I were you, I would check if the contract is in Or. Chor 22. format (and then check Sections 7.3.1, 7.3.2 and 7.3.3.

[meand]

if your condo purchasing contract was after July 2008, it is legally required to be in the standard contract form Or. Chor. 22

in standard contract form Or. Chor. 22, Section 7.3.1, if the seller does not transfer ownership of the unit to the buyer within the time stipulated in Section 4 of the contract, then buyer has the right to terminate the agreement and demand refund of all payments made plus interest stated in such clause (the interest rate stated cannot be lower than that rate charge by seller against a buyer default). [Example, one of my condo purchase contracts has 7.5% per annum].

In Section 7.3.2, if buyer does not want to terminate the contract, buyer can charge a daily default fine of the percentage stated in Section 7.3.2 (not less than 0.01% of the unit price, but up to an aggregate max of 10% of the unit price). If after 10% is accrued and charged and buyer views that seller cannot perform, buyer can terminate the agreement.

Lastly, in standard Section 7.3.3, if seller cannot finish the condo project because of force majeure reasons, seller can refund all payments already made by buyer plus interest at the max interest rate for fixed deposits quoted by KTB Bank.

If I were you, I would check if the contract is in Or. Chor 22. format (and then check Sections 7.3.1, 7.3.2 and 7.3.3.

Thank you so much for the help.

I just checked this. In section "7.3" it says something (in Thai) about a 38 baht monthly charge for all residents for common area(s).

It seems the sections you were referring to in our contract are labeled:

8.3.1 if they don't finish on completion date, buyer entitled to refund

8.3.2 if we want condo still after them being delayed, then the owner must give the customer 0.01% every day but not more than 10%.

8.3.3 if seller cannot finish the condo for force majeure reasons, seller can refund all payments already made by buyer plus interest at the max interest rate for fixed deposits quoted by KTB Bank.

(I think these correspond EXACTLY to what you posted, the 8's in place of 7's being the only difference)

As far as I can tell, it is sounding good for a little compensation each day they are late. The contract mentions something about them needing to notify us within a week and "prove" there were force majeure reasons for the delay. They never did this.

Thanks again for all the help, i'll definitely bring all this up at the appropriate time.

Any more thoughts are very much appreciated.

Best.

Edited February 16, 2012 by meand

[thaihome]

I wouldn’t hang my hat on the lack of notification. Does the contract say they must send every owner a letter? Did they put a notice on a bulletin board at the site or their office? Were they notified by the contractor of a force majeure event?

The key fact would be is the developer granting force majeure to the contractor or will they be collecting penalties from them? It is unlikely you will get anything from the developer if they are not collecting penalties from the contractor on the construction contract.

TH

[meand]

I wouldn’t hang my hat on the lack of notification. Does the contract say they must send every owner a letter? Did they put a notice on a bulletin board at the site or their office? Were they notified by the contractor of a force majeure event?

The key fact would be is the developer granting force majeure to the contractor or will they be collecting penalties from them? It is unlikely you will get anything from the developer if they are not collecting penalties from the contractor on the construction contract.

TH

I'll look into your questions. Thanks.

All I know is, after the floods we went to see the guy we bought it from. The one question I had was is the schedule being affected. He said no. I'm learning though that it doesn't matter what that guy said one way or another, it is all about those documents. I guess talking is just totally useless. Anyway, i'll just continue to do my best, i'm going to try not to get too worked up either way.

[kwonitoy]

I wouldn’t hang my hat on the lack of notification. Does the contract say they must send every owner a letter? Did they put a notice on a bulletin board at the site or their office? Were they notified by the contractor of a force majeure event?

The key fact would be is the developer granting force majeure to the contractor or will they be collecting penalties from them? It is unlikely you will get anything from the developer if they are not collecting penalties from the contractor on the construction contract.

TH

I'll look into your questions. Thanks.

All I know is, after the floods we went to see the guy we bought it from. The one question I had was is the schedule being affected. He said no. I'm learning though that it doesn't matter what that guy said one way or another, it is all about those documents. I guess talking is just totally useless. Anyway, i'll just continue to do my best, i'm going to try not to get too worked up either way.

The condo I bought in Jomtien was 1 year late in getting completed.

It was VT7 which was slowed down due to legal issue's which delayed the completion.

We were informed by the developer that it would be late.

They offered us

A. A complete refund

B. Transfer our purchase to another VT building (VT 8)

After the contract payments were up at the end of three years I had the option of continueing monthy payments and lower the final end payment, or make no more monthy payments and keep the same final payment. I choose the latter option.

There was never any talk of compensation, any time we enquired as to completion there only respose was, you want your money back? As the units were selling for quite a bit more than the original off plan purchase price I declined and waited it out.

[meand]

I wouldn’t hang my hat on the lack of notification. Does the contract say they must send every owner a letter? Did they put a notice on a bulletin board at the site or their office? Were they notified by the contractor of a force majeure event?

The key fact would be is the developer granting force majeure to the contractor or will they be collecting penalties from them? It is unlikely you will get anything from the developer if they are not collecting penalties from the contractor on the construction contract.

TH

I'll look into your questions. Thanks.

All I know is, after the floods we went to see the guy we bought it from. The one question I had was is the schedule being affected. He said no. I'm learning though that it doesn't matter what that guy said one way or another, it is all about those documents. I guess talking is just totally useless. Anyway, i'll just continue to do my best, i'm going to try not to get too worked up either way.

The condo I bought in Jomtien was 1 year late in getting completed.

It was VT7 which was slowed down due to legal issue's which delayed the completion.

We were informed by the developer that it would be late.

They offered us

A. A complete refund

B. Transfer our purchase to another VT building (VT 8)

After the contract payments were up at the end of three years I had the option of continueing monthy payments and lower the final end payment, or make no more monthy payments and keep the same final payment. I choose the latter option.

There was never any talk of compensation, any time we enquired as to completion there only respose was, you want your money back? As the units were selling for quite a bit more than the original off plan purchase price I declined and waited it out.

Thanks. Do you feel like putting up a little fuss would have made a little difference? Or you didn't get that impression at all?

[kwonitoy]

I wouldn’t hang my hat on the lack of notification. Does the contract say they must send every owner a letter? Did they put a notice on a bulletin board at the site or their office? Were they notified by the contractor of a force majeure event?

The key fact would be is the developer granting force majeure to the contractor or will they be collecting penalties from them? It is unlikely you will get anything from the developer if they are not collecting penalties from the contractor on the construction contract.

TH

I'll look into your questions. Thanks.

All I know is, after the floods we went to see the guy we bought it from. The one question I had was is the schedule being affected. He said no. I'm learning though that it doesn't matter what that guy said one way or another, it is all about those documents. I guess talking is just totally useless. Anyway, i'll just continue to do my best, i'm going to try not to get too worked up either way.

The condo I bought in Jomtien was 1 year late in getting completed.

It was VT7 which was slowed down due to legal issue's which delayed the completion.

We were informed by the developer that it would be late.

They offered us

A. A complete refund

B. Transfer our purchase to another VT building (VT 8)

After the contract payments were up at the end of three years I had the option of continueing monthy payments and lower the final end payment, or make no more monthy payments and keep the same final payment. I choose the latter option.

There was never any talk of compensation, any time we enquired as to completion there only respose was, you want your money back? As the units were selling for quite a bit more than the original off plan purchase price I declined and waited it out.

Thanks. Do you feel like putting up a little fuss would have made a little difference? Or you didn't get that impression at all?

The only thing making a fuss would have done is raise my blood pressure and create hard feeling.

I know the VT office was constanly bombarded by people that had bought units in VT7 and were worried because of the court drama, and at certain times I got the impression they were worried also. Since it was a court ordered stopage there's not much anyone could do. Once the court ruled in VT's favor construction went ahead full steam so I was satisfied with that.

I wasn't waiting to move in so it caused me no inconvienence

[Card]

Thanks all. I have been trying to "work" my way through the Thai documentation. The one thing that popped out was that they were supposed to send me a letter or some sort of notification if they were going to be late, which they never did. In fact, I still have no idea when they will finish.

Anyway, I just wondered if there was some general input on this. I think what i'll end up doing is putting up a bit of a stink and see what that brings, but beyond that, i'm not sure it is even worth it to get all worked up about it.

The one thing I will say, and this is still so ironic to me, is that I literally had one question through the whole purchasing process... "what happens if you are late." I just got a "oh, this company has NEVER been late, not even one time." I did say, yes, but what if.... then the old no understandi english popped in. Live and learn I guess.

I doubt kicking up a stink will do any good at all. You should have had an English translation of the contract along with the Thai version, which is the only legal one in Thailand. Some contracts like one of mine states the max number of monthly payments have to be made (20) and then if the condo not finished I pay no more until it is. It also states the max time after the expected completion date should elapse before compensation is due and the time period when the company has to decalre that the condo will not be finished and all monies returned.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

When you sign a contract to purchase a condo, you should have stipulated a clause regarding compensation for the late completion. My guess is that your contract does not include anything of the sort. Accordingly, I think that you're out of luck.

Correct, they should have discussed it with you prior to signing the contract. In normal cases they compensate a certain amount per day it is delayed.

Not true ! As working for a condo developing company, all contracts must be the one allowed under the condo act. Only 1 is allowed. if any projects or contracts are not like the one allowed, thy still must follow the law and are bound by it if push comes to shove.

You are intitled to compensation under the condo act of .02% A DAY up to 10% of the total price, usually taken off at closing. No if and or butts about it.

Persoanally I would just try to talk with them, and if it is only dealyed a month or two it's not really worth your time. If they don't want to pay of do anything, the Consumer protection board will help, they are in BKK or a lawyer can help, but as I say, is a few months worth the effort ? after months, depending on the sales price, maybe

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Thanks all. I have been trying to "work" my way through the Thai documentation. The one thing that popped out was that they were supposed to send me a letter or some sort of notification if they were going to be late, which they never did. In fact, I still have no idea when they will finish.

Anyway, I just wondered if there was some general input on this. I think what i'll end up doing is putting up a bit of a stink and see what that brings, but beyond that, i'm not sure it is even worth it to get all worked up about it.

The one thing I will say, and this is still so ironic to me, is that I literally had one question through the whole purchasing process... "what happens if you are late." I just got a "oh, this company has NEVER been late, not even one time." I did say, yes, but what if.... then the old no understandi english popped in. Live and learn I guess.

I doubt kicking up a stink will do any good at all. You should have had an English translation of the contract along with the Thai version, which is the only legal one in Thailand. Some contracts like one of mine states the max number of monthly payments have to be made (20) and then if the condo not finished I pay no more until it is. It also states the max time after the expected completion date should elapse before compensation is due and the time period when the company has to decalre that the condo will not be finished and all monies returned.

Time and time again not true all told by people who do not work in the business I am sure. The only legal contract is the one regulated under the laws of thailand and not just what they make up.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

I wouldn’t hang my hat on the lack of notification. Does the contract say they must send every owner a letter? Did they put a notice on a bulletin board at the site or their office? Were they notified by the contractor of a force majeure event?

The key fact would be is the developer granting force majeure to the contractor or will they be collecting penalties from them? It is unlikely you will get anything from the developer if they are not collecting penalties from the contractor on the construction contract.

TH

I'll look into your questions. Thanks.

All I know is, after the floods we went to see the guy we bought it from. The one question I had was is the schedule being affected. He said no. I'm learning though that it doesn't matter what that guy said one way or another, it is all about those documents. I guess talking is just totally useless. Anyway, i'll just continue to do my best, i'm going to try not to get too worked up either way.

The condo I bought in Jomtien was 1 year late in getting completed.

It was VT7 which was slowed down due to legal issue's which delayed the completion.

We were informed by the developer that it would be late.

They offered us

A. A complete refund

B. Transfer our purchase to another VT building (VT 8)

After the contract payments were up at the end of three years I had the option of continueing monthy payments and lower the final end payment, or make no more monthy payments and keep the same final payment. I choose the latter option.

There was never any talk of compensation, any time we enquired as to completion there only respose was, you want your money back? As the units were selling for quite a bit more than the original off plan purchase price I declined and waited it out.

Most buyers like yourself are very uninformed. Developers never like to make payouts and our company lawyer tells us not to say a thing. However, we are paying out millions in compensation to buyers who requested it at closing so title transfer fees will be less for the land office saving us some of the pay outs

[meand]

When you sign a contract to purchase a condo, you should have stipulated a clause regarding compensation for the late completion. My guess is that your contract does not include anything of the sort. Accordingly, I think that you're out of luck.

Correct, they should have discussed it with you prior to signing the contract. In normal cases they compensate a certain amount per day it is delayed.

Not true ! As working for a condo developing company, all contracts must be the one allowed under the condo act. Only 1 is allowed. if any projects or contracts are not like the one allowed, thy still must follow the law and are bound by it if push comes to shove.

You are intitled to compensation under the condo act of .02% A DAY up to 10% of the total price, usually taken off at closing. No if and or butts about it.

Persoanally I would just try to talk with them, and if it is only dealyed a month or two it's not really worth your time. If they don't want to pay of do anything, the Consumer protection board will help, they are in BKK or a lawyer can help, but as I say, is a few months worth the effort ? after months, depending on the sales price, maybe

First of all, I missed your posts when I had originally made this thread. Anyway, thank you.

The one question I have now is I see you have written a 0.02% a day late fee, yet in our contract it reads 0.01% a day. I would be VERY interested to find a document where I could point this out to them, that would essentially double our compensation obviously. I'll look into it myself, but would love any tips. It seems there is some sticky threads right here, i'll check those. At this point it is looking like our condo will be about 5 months late, so it is definitely worth it for me.

Thanks again.

Edited May 12, 2012 by meand

[meand]

It seems the 0.01% fee per day is kosher under the Thai condo contract regulation:

(8.6) in case that the business owner could not or might not be able to complete the construction in time, as specified in the agreement.

a) The consumer has the right to terminate the agreement and claim for the entire money that has already been paid, including the default penalty at the same rate specified by the business owner in case of late payment from the consumer. However, the consumer still has the right to claim for any other compensation.

in case that the consumer decided not to execute termination of contract, the consumer has the right to fine the business owner, such fine shall not be less than 0.01 percent per day, calculating from the unit price; however, the fine claimed shall not exceed the total amount of 10 percent of the unit price. Anyway, if the consumer oversaw the possibilities that the business owner has no potential to achieve the construction on schedule, the consumer still has the right to terminate the agreement.

http://www.samuifors...regulation.html

Edited May 12, 2012 by meand

[kwonitoy]

So have you brought this to the condo builder's attention?

I'm interested in how much drama it will cause or if they'll pay up.

My situation is closed now and I didn't look into this before paying them, but it's something that others should be aware of

[meand]

So have you brought this to the condo builder's attention?

I'm interested in how much drama it will cause or if they'll pay up.

My situation is closed now and I didn't look into this before paying them, but it's something that others should be aware of

Yeah, I have talked to the condo people about it. At this point, they are bringing up a "promotion" when you ask them about their late fees. The promotion is ridiculous, something about paying for the entire condo now (before complete) and getting 40k baht off the price (maybe this isn't ridiculous to some). I mentioned to them I simply wanted to collect the per day late fee, and they seemed fine with that. Have no idea if I will actually get it, but will report back when the time comes.