New Yamaha Nouvo Injected

[vel_tins]

"Hayate and Airblade are the direct competitors to the Nuovo."

I meant NEW motorbikes, currently sold.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Airblade is out of production for how many years?

The Hayate is a ~5 years old bike with a nearly unchanged design over the years.

The last Hayate, I drove (a 2010 model), had still the old, noisy and air-cooled "Suzuki-Step" engine, pimped with a FI.

Does Suzuki still sell it new?

Edited April 24, 2012 by vel_tins

[jamesbrock]

Correct me if I am wrong

Happy to!

but the Airblade is out of production for how many years?

Zero years. Still in production. Still being sold.

The Hayate is a ~5 years old bike with a nearly unchanged design over the years.

Explain the difference between "nearly unchanged" and 'slightly updated'?

The last Hayate, I drove (a 2010 model), had still the old, noisy and air-cooled "Suzuki-Step" engine, pimped with a FI.

Does Suzuki still sell it new?

Yes.

You really do make it too easy.

Edited April 24, 2012 by jamesbrock

[vel_tins]

thanks for your correction.

But I never saw a new Airblade, in the last year(s), when I visited the Honda dealer, to order parts.

Next time, I will look closely.

[jamesbrock]

Pleasure.

As far as I see it, the automatic scooter market generally has three entries for each manufacturer:

Honda = Scoopy - Click - Airblade

Yamaha = Fino - Mio - Nouvo

Suzuki = Jelato - Skydrive - Hayate

In my opinion, as the market is now, both the Spacy and the PCX 150 are adjunct to this market, as neither has any direct competitor. You can argue till you're blue in the face about how refined the Nouvo may be (while completely ignoring the existence of the other two), but that does not put it in the same class as the PCX 150. No way. No how.

Edited April 24, 2012 by jamesbrock

[wana]

Pleasure.

As far as I see it, the automatic scooter market generally has three entries for each manufacturer:

Honda = Scoopy - Click - Airblade

Yamaha = Fino - Mio - Nouvo

Suzuki = Jelato - Skydrive - Hayate

In my opinion, as the market is now, both the Spacy and the PCX 150 are adjunct to this market, as neither has any direct competitor. You can argue till you're blue in the face about how refined the Nouvo may be (while completely ignoring the existence of the other two), but that does not put it in the same class as the PCX 150. No way. No how.

wrong again

Yamaha have

a nano spark 110cc (still in the big C at around 36k )

a liquid coooled semi auto spark 135cc

a filano

a ttx

as well as the mio ,fino and carbed elegance which seems in plentiful stock

so its hard to know if its discontinued or not yet

[vel_tins]

wrong again

Yamaha have...

and what's about the Fiore FI?

The Fiore is really a great little bike (for girls/women).

Never seen such a large underseat storage in this class before.

[jamesbrock]

Pleasure.

As far as I see it, the automatic scooter market generally has three entries for each manufacturer:

Honda = Scoopy - Click - Airblade

Yamaha = Fino - Mio - Nouvo

Suzuki = Jelato - Skydrive - Hayate

In my opinion, as the market is now, both the Spacy and the PCX 150 are adjunct to this market, as neither has any direct competitor. You can argue till you're blue in the face about how refined the Nouvo may be (while completely ignoring the existence of the other two), but that does not put it in the same class as the PCX 150. No way. No how.

wrong again

Yamaha have

a nano spark 110cc (still in the big C at around 36k )

a liquid coooled semi auto spark 135cc

a filano

a ttx

as well as the mio ,fino and carbed elegance which seems in plentiful stock

so its hard to know if its discontinued or not yet

Again?

ok, so I left out the Spark/Smash/Wave hoping that specifying 'automatic' would alert the reader to such, and a few other models (which you don't seem to know the competition's entries), hoping that the use of the term 'generally' would alert the reader that I really CBF going through every singled model produced; but my main premise is still sound (in my opinion).

wrong again

Yamaha have...

and what's about the Fiore FI?

The Fiore is really a great little bike (for girls/women).

Never seen such a large underseat storage in this class before.

Are you going to argue that Honda has two entries in the same large-framed underbone-design segment of the market, or are you both going to nitpick because I didn't want to stray off topic too much and missed several models?

Edited April 24, 2012 by jamesbrock

[vel_tins]

I don't want to arguing or "nitpicking" about details (never heard this before, even google can't translate it to german..), life is too short.

Fact is: PCX and Nouvo SX are no competitors, period.

PS: personally, I would like too see a slightly "bigger" Mio (not an "underbone style" bike, like the Nuovo), with ~150cc and FI around 55 K Baht.

Edited April 24, 2012 by vel_tins

[CMX]

Clearly we have now a rich collection of 125 Fi's that feature automatic transmissions. I'd like to throw in (again) the new Honda Click-i 125, as it is bigger now, accepts a (open side down) helmet under the seat, and according to a friend who's ridden all these bikes on trips, truly zips - or clicks, if you like - along. However, we've seen so far no reports about the new Click, I think, though we know that the engine has joined the 125 club. It profits, by the way, from the same eSP design as the new 150 PCX. They're taking upward from 50K baht for Click's alloy wheeled model, with combi-brake, here in CM.

Suzuki here in the N. has only a small following as a percent of bikes, and the Hayate Fi-125 is rarely shown on the official company dealer's floor. My '11 is v. lively in town, but I cannot brag about high speed, as it only tugs along my streamlined (whale-like) body at 92 GPS (102 indicated). This too is a repeat, sorry, but factoids are factoids.

Certainly I have to agree that the PCX 150 is a breed apart. 78K baht alone assures that. Except, anyone know the price of the Vespa? 100K, I seem to recall, and it's not a bit overgrown.

Edited April 24, 2012 by CMX

[manarak]

Vespas are too ugly for me to consider driving one.

PCX: too bulky, I'll have trouble parking in those tight spaces.

Nouvo:

I'd be happy for the new elegance to be 125cc, because my international driver license allows me bikes up to 125cc.

I'd also be happy if they increased the fuel capacity, I currently need to visit the station every couple of days and it's seriously getting on my nerves.

Then, I'd like increased carrying capacity. not only a platform on that "bone", but also if they could sell a model without that risiculous front shield and putting hooks on both sides instead, as well as on each side of the back wheel.

Current storage space on elegance is enough for 2 helmets (one semi-full face helmet and one half helmet)

[macknife]

thanks for your correction.

But I never saw a new Airblade, in the last year(s), when I visited the Honda dealer, to order parts.

Next time, I will look closely.

You're not completely wrong though. There is/was a 2011 airblade and it looks very nice. (James posted a link above for it) i saw someone driving a new one out of sumet cycles just a couple of months ago. There is no new model for 2012 though. The trouble is that model is 110cc. The new Click is 125 the same as the new Nouvo, so they have to be in direct competion, probably with the new Mio as well. I'm gonna discount the new Mio though, coz frankly it looks awful compared to last years model. So would you buy the new 125 Nouvo or new 125 Click? IMO i think the new click looks better (I saw the new Nouvo today on Rama IV.) Twin headlights simply look better and meaner and most bigger sports bikes keep up this trend. Why Yamaha went back to the cyclops look I'll never know. Yamaha Nouvo has twin rear shocks compared to Clicks one. That is a big selling point for the heavier farang, which I'm sure is the reason why Jack's (farang heavy) condo in Pattaya has alot of them. But a Nouvo is 5-10,000baht more expensive than a Click so is it worth it?

Going back to the Airblade, if honda do bring out a new 2012 Airblade(or something similar) 125cc towards the end of the year(with twin rear shocks like before) then i imagine the new nouvo will sink like a stone. i do sometimes make a sight count of airblades to nouvos as im on my daily commute to work in Bkk and airblades still out number Nouvos slightly, in spite of the nouvo being 135. So if the engine sizes were the same then Honda would win without a doubt. (Unless they give some hideous new makeover)

Oh and comparing a Nouvo to a PCX is a joke. Some Nouvo buyers may look at the PCX too but that doesnt make them comparable. I bet most PCX owners didnt even consider a Nouvo.

[Gary A]

I'm seriously disappointed that Yamaha replaced the 135 with a 125. That said, I'd be devastated if a PCX could beat my Yamaha going up the mountain to my watering hole.

ADDED - I'll be keeping my Yamaha Elegance 135 for the foreseeable future and when I do buy a new scooter it will be a PCX 150.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Gary A

[jamesbrock]

Fact is: PCX and Nouvo SX are no competitors, period.

Wait, what?!? Are you saying that the Nouvo SX and PCX 150 are no competitors to each other???

Or, are you saying that the Nouvo SX and PCX 150 are not competitors to the Airblade and the Hayate?

<snip> I'd like to throw in (again) the new Honda Click-i 125<snip>

There's no getting around the fact that the Click 125-i is technically a scooter, whereas the Nouvo/Hayate/Airblade are all underbone construction (with most the inherent benefits this design typically brings). This is what separates the three types of motorbike - scooters, underbones (stepthroughs), and full frame 'big' bikes. Physical size and engine displacement is not enough move a particular bike from one type to another.

Suzuki here in the N. has only a small following as a percent of bikes, and the Hayate Fi-125 is rarely shown on the official company dealer's floor. My '11 is v. lively in town, but I cannot brag about high speed, as it only tugs along my streamlined (whale-like) body at 92 GPS (102 indicated). This too is a repeat, sorry, but factoids are factoids.

Same here on Samui, although there are at least three new Hayates in the local Suzuki dealer.

[jamesbrock]

<snip>The new Click is 125 the same as the new Nouvo, so they have to be in direct competion, probably with the new Mio as well. I'm gonna discount the new Mio though, coz frankly it looks awful compared to last years model.

Again, they are completely distinct designs and construction; they can not compete in the same market space. It's like comparing a PCX 150 to a CBR 150; they might be similar size, with the same engine displacement, but they are completely distinct frame designs. (yes, yes, I know only one's an auto...)

So would you buy the new 125 Nouvo or new 125 Click?

Most (some?) would buy the physically bigger Nouvo based on the knowledge that it has a larger, stronger, more rigid, and better balanced frame (because of its totally different underbone design) than the Click.

Oh and comparing a Nouvo to a PCX is a joke. Some Nouvo buyers may look at the PCX too but that doesnt make them comparable. I bet most PCX owners didnt even consider a Nouvo.

Agreed, yet they are consistently compared to each other, while the Hayate and Airblade rarely get included in the same sentence.

Edited April 25, 2012 by jamesbrock

[CMX]

JB,

I'm wondering if your assessment of the new Click-i 125 eSP is of the real vehicle? I do not know about the frame's design, compared to the old, and it surely has the single spring. But it is not the same bike; it is bigger. Rear suspension is improved, I believe.

Also, I make the point again (and it's been made by others) that the Airblade has only been a chipper, at best, 110cc, and could never outperform the Elegance, other things being equal, least of all in hauling freight, going uphill, or top speed. Don't even know that the 2011 model got better mileage. Good storage and comfy seat, however. Also, didn't it have those relatively thin 14" tyres, as does yet the Click yet?

Except that it was a Honda and lots of storage and good size, I doubt that many would have considered the Airblade as being in a class with the 135 - or at least I did not, when I was first shopping 2.5 years ago here.

[wana]

I'm seriously disappointed that Yamaha replaced the 135 with a 125. That said, I'd be devastated if a PCX could beat my Yamaha going up the mountain to my watering hole.

ADDED - I'll be keeping my Yamaha Elegance 135 for the foreseeable future and when I do buy a new scooter it will be a PCX 150.

i raced a thai guy on a pcx 150 today on my elegance and i was unable to get in front of him

he took off quicker when the light went green

and he held his lead ,i thought i would start catching him after 40kmph+ but the new pcx is faster

the road was flat ,no hillls or corners

i was carrying a passeger about 50kg but i think the pcx would have still won even with equal loads

[CMX]

And, of course, he might have been bearing full fuel - one of the considerable virtues of that bike even now.

Grateful for the report. Now we need to hear of a new SX being defeated by the 150PCX and we'll have a perspective.

>Such as, a little used (truly, after careful inspection) Elegance costs less than half a new PCX and might edge it with fuel use. Might well hold its value as a percentile of its purchase price as well.

That's quite an arresting icon you've added, wana!

[vel_tins]

Frame comparison

"Scooter", engine mounted on the left swing-arm: Click/Scoopy/Mio/Fino, etc.

"underbone style", engine mounted on the left swing-arm: Yamaha Nuovo/Honda Airblade/Suzuki Hayate, etc

(just a scooter with a needless piece of steel between your feet ).

You see, it's just cosmetics, waisted space. (Why don't they put the tank inside?)

But useful, if you want to mount a sidecar - saleng.

The engine is on the same place, as the scooters engine.

Not much difference, except the 2nd shock.

"real underbone", engine mounted under the "bone", mostly manual or semi-automatics (except Honda Wave AT): Honda Wave/Suzuki Raider/Yamaha Spark, etc

Edited April 25, 2012 by vel_tins

[jackcorbett]

JB,

I'm wondering if your assessment of the new Click-i 125 eSP is of the real vehicle? I do not know about the frame's design, compared to the old, and it surely has the single spring. But it is not the same bike; it is bigger. Rear suspension is improved, I believe.

Also, I make the point again (and it's been made by others) that the Airblade has only been a chipper, at best, 110cc, and could never outperform the Elegance, other things being equal, least of all in hauling freight, going uphill, or top speed. Don't even know that the 2011 model got better mileage. Good storage and comfy seat, however. Also, didn't it have those relatively thin 14" tyres, as does yet the Click yet?

Except that it was a Honda and lots of storage and good size, I doubt that many would have considered the Airblade as being in a class with the 135 - or at least I did not, when I was first shopping 2.5 years ago here.

CMX....It is true that the Air Blade had only 14 inch tires but they were fat 14 inch tires, and in my opinion far superior to most other 14 inch tires such as the Mio and Fino have, Click, etc. I once ran my 113 c.c. Nouvo MX against an Air Blade and switched drivers as my friend was much heavier than me. After the first 20 kilometers per hour or so the Nouvo started to edge ahead. It was rated 8.9 horsepower. That means a 135 c.c. Elegance will blow the doors off an Air Blade and then some. Also...as I've said here before, Yamaha tweaked the seat height, distance of the seat from the front wheel, etc on the then new 135 Elegance and this resulted in quicker steering. For those who prefer a quicker steering bike the 110 c.c. Air Blade most definitely had it over the 113 c.c. Nouvo MX whereas the Nouvo MX had the smoother ride because of its longer wheel base. In my opinion after Yamaha tweaked the 135 Elegance the result was a bike that was as agile and quick steering as an Air Blade or nearly so but which retained the smoother ride and greater stability of the Nouvo MX. Most will never notice such things that make the Yamaha a splendidly engineered machine. The Air Blade was a great bike in its day but the Elegance became the far superior machine.

[wana]

That's quite an arresting icon you've added, wana!

the eyes are supposed to move ! but they wont on thai visa ...

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1138&bih=537&tbm=isch&tbnid=oZ0aUlZr6BgEvM:&imgrefurl=http://crazywhoscrazy.blogspot.com/&docid=aLRJexUVw2D2uM&imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2FPs_uG6nDU/TUiGfz6HBjI/AAAAAAAABe8/5SZNiELvwXg/s1600/crazy.gif&w=350&h=350&ei=6b-XT8PBL8bYrQfXm_G1AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=110&vpy=149&dur=2&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=98&ty=140&sig=100233028834201106537&page=1&tbnh=165&tbnw=165&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69

[jamesbrock]

JB,

I'm wondering if your assessment of the new Click-i 125 eSP is of the real vehicle? I do not know about the frame's design, compared to the old, and it surely has the single spring. But it is not the same bike; it is bigger. Rear suspension is improved, I believe.

Yes, the real Click 125i. The frame might be bigger, the engine might be bigger, but is is still a scooter (even according to vel_tins' classification above)

The Corolla hatchback and the Mazda 3 have changed shape, size and engine capacity over the years, but they have always remained in the same class. Just because the Click is now 125, doesn't mean it's changed it chassis design. Just like the Nouvo was still in the same class as the Hayate and Airblade when it was 10cc's bigger.

Also, I make the point again (and it's been made by others) that the Airblade has only been a chipper, at best, 110cc, and could never outperform the Elegance, other things being equal, least of all in hauling freight, going uphill, or top speed. Don't even know that the 2011 model got better mileage. Good storage and comfy seat, however. Also, didn't it have those relatively thin 14" tyres, as does yet the Click yet?

I never said the Airblade was, or is, as good as the Hayate or Elegance, in fact I completely agree with Jack that the Elegance was the far superior machine, but being a large-framed, underbone-styled, step-through, it is certainly in the same class of motorcycle.

I don't get your point about the tyres, but the PCX (both old and new) comes with 14" tyres too; does that put it in the same class as the Click? A friend has a new Click 125i, and the tyres on it are 90's on the front and 100's on the rear (a far cry from the 70's & 80's that are standard on the Hayate); I'm not sure though, if they are the standard tyres.

Edited April 25, 2012 by jamesbrock

[macknife]

>Such as, a little used (truly, after careful inspection) Elegance costs less than half a new PCX and might edge it with fuel use. Might well hold its value as a percentile of its purchase price as well.

Bike shop on Rama IV BKK quoted me 58,000B for the Nouvo SX with spoked rims, she wasn't sure about how much extra it would be for the mag wheels, she said probably 4-5000B. So maybe 62,000B for the SX with wheels that match the PCX. Hmm seems alot to me. I'm guessing she was including insurance and registration, but even still, thatv is alot more than half a new PCX.

@Vel_tins.. more rigid frame or not, I don't think people would care that much when looking at the price difference between a click and sx.

[jamesbrock]

Frame comparison

"Scooter", engine mounted on the left swing-arm: Click/Scoopy/Mio/Fino, etc.

"underbone style", engine mounted on the left swing-arm: Yamaha Nuovo/Honda Airblade/Suzuki Hayate, etc

(just a scooter with a needless piece of steel between your feet ).

You see, it's just cosmetics, waisted space. (Why don't they put the tank inside?)

But useful, if you want to mount a sidecar - saleng.

The engine is on the same place, as the scooters engine.

Not much difference, except the 2nd shock.

"real underbone", engine mounted under the "bone", mostly manual or semi-automatics (except Honda Wave AT): Honda Wave/Suzuki Raider/Yamaha Spark, etc

Regardless of where the engine sits, they are still underbone-styled - i.e. they have an underbone frame; which puts them in a different class, or do you still not get it?

And, do you honestly think that that massive orange bar running from just under the seat to the steering assembly is "needless" and "cosmetic"?

Anyways, thanks for proving my point. Let's get back on topic to the new Nouvo; I can't wait to see some reviews and pics.

[vel_tins]

@Vel_tins.. more rigid frame or not, I don't think people would care that much when looking at the price difference between a click and sx

Well, I personally would always prefer a step through "scooter" style bike like the Mio/Click/etc., because of the way better transportation facilities!

And, do you honestly think that that massive orange bar running from just under the seat to the steering assembly is "needless" and "cosmetic"?

see No.1 (millions of scooters doesn't need it, you do?)

BUT:

I would consider an "underbone-style" bike only, if:

1. I want to race and my average speed would be around >100 Km/h or more. Maybe (?) I could benefit from the stiffer frame.

2. I plan to mount a saleng (sidecar) to the bike. A scooter isn't build for these purposes.

3. I want to smuggle something....there is an lot of empty space under the "bone", as you can see on the picture .

4. ? Recommendations are welcome...

Otherwise, its a lot of waisted storage space and nothing else!

Edited April 25, 2012 by vel_tins

[jamesbrock]

@Vel_tins.. more rigid frame or not, I don't think people would care that much when looking at the price difference between a click and sx

Well, I personally would always prefer a step through "scooter" style bike like the Mio/Click/etc., because of the way better transportation facilities!

And, do you honestly think that that massive orange bar running from just under the seat to the steering assembly is "needless" and "cosmetic"?

see No.1 (millions of scooters doesn't need it, you do?)

BUT:

I would consider an "underbone-style" bike only, if:

1. I want to race and my average speed would be around >100 Km/h or more. Maybe (?) I could benefit from the stiffer frame.

2. I plan to mount a saleng (sidecar) to the bike. A scooter isn't build for these purposes.

3. I want to smuggle something....there is an lot of empty space under the "bone", as you can see on the picture .

4. ? Recommendations are welcome...

Otherwise, its a lot of waisted storage space and nothing else!

Well, there's always the possibility that ALL motorbike manufacturers spontaneously decided to put a stabilising bar on their larger-framed bikes for the sole purpose of making it difficult to transport certain goods, but Occam's Razor would suggest that the so-called "wasted storage space" is a necessary trade-off for the increased strength and rigidity called for by having the larger frame.

[vel_tins]

is a necessary trade-off for the increased strength and rigidity called for by having the larger frame.

I would agree, if we compare these small (125cc) scooters with "real scooters" in the 400-600cc or more, range.

In this class, you need a strength and stiff frame without compromises, definitely.

BUT, we talk about scooters in the 110-125cc range, where the frame size is "nearly" equal. (apart from 10-20 mm up or down...).

I rode them all, (real and fake) underbones or scooters, but I never felt unsecure at our average speeds, from 50-80 Km/h.

And I never saw any advantages in the underbones. (except the slightly larger (~2cm) space for my legs on the Elegance, compared to the Mio 125).

Even my modified Mio 125 is stable at 100Km/h and up...so what?

EDIT: Apart from "theory", can you really, really tell me one reason (maybe from your own experience), why the underbones are "better" or more "secure"?

Edited April 25, 2012 by vel_tins

[jamesbrock]

EDIT: Apart from "theory", can you really, really tell me one reason (maybe from your own experience), why the underbones are "better" or more "secure"?

<facepalm> Wait, wait; I'm on the phone to the chief design engineer for Yamaha - I'll get back to you with the answer...

Edited April 25, 2012 by jamesbrock

[vel_tins]

Wait, wait; I'm on the phone to the chief design engineer for Yamaha - I'll get back to you with the answer...

As expected...no real arguments, just a piece of .........

But wait my friend, if this "chief design engineer" is also responsible for the design of the new Mio/TTX/etc...don't waste your time...

[jamesbrock]

Sorry, I should have used the sarcasm font.

As far as arguments go, this one is bordering on the ridiculous. You really, really believe that the engineers of three independent motorcycle manufacturers place that brace there for no other reason than to make it difficult to transport certain goods, and you're placing the burden of proof onto me to convince you otherwise... Really.

Rather than accept that the engineers of three independent motorcycle manufacturers place that brace there for a specific reason, you accuse me of .........?

I feel so much stupider for engaging you.

[macknife]

The bottom line is, underbone or not, the new nouvo is now just a 125 scooter, the same as a Click, yes it has twin rear shocks, but with a price of over 60,000B i mean seriously. I'd rather have the last years Mio for the price and the looks. Yamaha have shot themselves in the foot on this one. If Honda upgrade the Airblade to 125 this year and keep the price down, then its game over for the Nouvo.