Learning To Read Thai

[terdsak_12]

My spoken Thai is fine, better than most actually, no worries, however after 13 years I should really learn to read and write. My 5 year old kid can so I should.

I need a teacher of some decription who's experienced at teaching "thick" people. Any names or numbers folks?

It my New Years resolution.

[Neeranam]

Pick up your kid's books and try to read them.

I recommend AUA's book, i bought it at their Rajdamri headquarters.

I didn't need a teacher to learn reading, but I should get one for speaking.

[meadish_sweetball]

Agree that the AUA books are good. In fact I think you should use their route as it gives you a deeper, gradual understanding of Thai script than the alphabet books for kids. You will need to familiarize yourself with some terms and concepts you haven't heard before, and it may look daunting at first - but remember this forum is here if you have any questions.

[buadhai]

Is the AUA book available via mail order? I checked with Asia Books and the AUA web site. No luck. Amazon seems to have it, but says the wait for shipping is 2-3 weeks.

I live in Korat.

[Tomissan]

My spoken Thai is fine, better than most actually, no worries, however after 13 years I should really learn to read and write. My 5 year old kid can so I should.

I need a teacher of some decription who's experienced at teaching "thick" people. Any names or numbers folks?

It my New Years resolution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TS,

after 18 years, this is the best program I've found.

It's available at (or used to be) Panthip, Sriracha, etc.

chok dee

Edited December 10, 2005 by Tomissan

[terdsak_12]

Cheers.

[wasabi]

My spoken Thai is fine, better than most actually, no worries, however after 13 years I should really learn to read and write. My 5 year old kid can so I should.

I need a teacher of some decription who's experienced at teaching "thick" people. Any names or numbers folks?

It my New Years resolution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TS,

after 18 years, this is the best program I've found.

It's available at (or used to be) Panthip, Sriracha, etc.

chok dee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tomissan, what is the exact name of the software you mention above? Is it Courage Thai?

[GoodHeart]

I can confirm Tomissan's recommendation is still on sale at Panthip. Bought a copy yesterday from a vendor on the fourth floor.

[Bryan in Isaan]

My spoken Thai is fine, better than most actually, no worries, however after 13 years I should really learn to read and write. My 5 year old kid can so I should.

I need a teacher of some decription who's experienced at teaching thick" people.  Any names or numbers folks?

It my New Years resolution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thick?? I have to commend anyone who can learn Thai without learning the script and reading. My wife can tell me a word 20 times and it doesn't sink in. I was in the country for three years and still didn't know squat about the language. Finally I am teaching myself to read and starting to catch on a little about speaking it.

Good luck and keep up the good work.

Bryan

Edited December 12, 2005 by Bryan in Isaan

[Carmine6]

My spoken Thai is fine, better than most actually, no worries, however after 13 years I should really learn to read and write. My 5 year old kid can so I should.

I need a teacher of some decription who's experienced at teaching thick" people.  Any names or numbers folks?

It my New Years resolution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thick?? I have to commend anyone who can learn Thai without learning the script and reading. My wife can tell me a word 20 times and it doesn't sink in. I was in the country for three years and still didn't know squat about the language. Finally I am teaching myself to read and starting to catch on a little about speaking it.

Good luck and keep up the good work.

Bryan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, you have a great ear. I'll repeat back exactly what I heard and it's not close. Then I'll see it written out and it's easier to pick out what I didn't hear before.

I started with "Teach Yourself Thai" by David Smyth and mainly got benefit by trying to write Thai characters or words from the book. Otherwise I can only recognize whole words. And that won't work in real life.

Rosetta Stone has a nice section where you have to put the Thai letters to spell what the person is saying. But they group them into small groups, so once you know a few characters it's easy to cheat by eliminating. So once again, writing the characters is the only way I can retain them. It's quite an investment in money and time, but it's helped my pronunciation a lot.

It'd be a slow, boring way to learn for you, but it could help less fluent folks. Wish I could find a live person to kind of prod me along as you're looking to do.

[Khun Bob]

How much did you pay for it ?

Take it that it is on a CD ?

Cheers

I can confirm Tomissan's recommendation is still on sale at Panthip. Bought a copy yesterday from a vendor on the fourth floor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[gburns57au]

My spoken Thai is fine, better than most actually, no worries, however after 13 years I should really learn to read and write. My 5 year old kid can so I should.

I need a teacher of some decription who's experienced at teaching "thick" people. Any names or numbers folks?

It my New Years resolution.

TS,

after 18 years, this is the best program I've found.

It's available at (or used to be) Panthip, Sriracha, etc.

chok dee

If it teaches you that Gaw Gai is pronounced Koo Kay.....then this is not a good program...it cant even get the first letter of the alphabet right.

Find someone to teach you the alphabet first.....the kids will do this and they have a remarkable patience for thick people Once you have mastered how to pronounce the alphabet....start reading anything you can....Pretty much the same way as you learned to read and write english really....isnt it??

Edited December 31, 2005 by gburns57au

[Johpa]

If it teaches you that Gaw Gai is pronounced Koo Kay.....then this is not a good program...it cant even get the first letter of the alphabet right.

I don't know what AUA uses these days but the old Marvin Brown course taught better than either above.

The first pair has the wrong consonant (it is not the voiced consonant /g/) whilst the second pair seems to have the wrong default vowel associated with the first letter, or perhaps it is only a transliteration issue.

[gburns57au]

If it teaches you that Gaw Gai is pronounced Koo Kay.....then this is not a good program...it cant even get the first letter of the alphabet right.

I don't know what AUA uses these days but the old Marvin Brown course taught better than either above.

The first pair has the wrong consonant (it is not the voiced consonant /g/) whilst the second pair seems to have the wrong default vowel associated with the first letter, or perhaps it is only a transliteration issue.

it is.....and this where most farangs give up when the translieration is incorrect and they cant be understood because of it.....no matter how hard they try. I cringed when I heard a television chef mispronounce the Thai dish he was making......Egg Soup instead of Chicken soup....

[jdinasia]

Unity Thai language school ... 3000 baht for 20 days in the afternoons. Modules 3 and 4 and you'll get it.

[wuggiman]

Have been trying to learn for a few years, but time and work normally gets in the way.

Started of with learning conversation, but last year i decided to be a bit more serious and got myself a teacher who is teaching me to read and write. This is not easy at all, as I have found out. But also find that I can actually read some Thai, not to mention write some very basic things.

In hindsight, i think i would have started with the reading and writing as it makes it a lot easier to pronounce.

[Mr_Dave]

In hindsight, i think i would have started with the reading and writing as it makes it a lot easier to pronounce.

I agree with Wuggiman.

I attended four months of conversation classes at two Thai language schools in Bangkok.

I still could not understand everyday speach.

Then a year ago I found a private teacher.

He insisted that I learn to read and write.

Only then did I start to make progress.

Now I know that the only way to learn the correct tones is to learn to read the Thai script.

English and phonetic alphabets are not capable of correct transliteration.

Yes, learning to read Thai is difficult, but it's not impossible.

To learn a few phrases conversation classes in a typical language school can be fun.

But the only way to really understand and pronounce the tones is with a private teacher who will correct your mistakes and drill the sounds over and over again.

And the only way to understand the tones - and the tone rules - is to learn to read.

[Richard W]

Now I know that the only way to learn the correct tones is to learn to read the Thai script.

English and phonetic alphabets are not capable of correct transliteration.

I presume you mean transcription, i.e. the representation of sound.

However, in that case you are either in ignorance or lying.

There are many accurate ways of doing it phonetically. One problem is that publishers have concluded that most people will not make the effort to become acquainted, say, with the International Phonetic Alphabet. You only get the real dividends when you try to become acquainted with several languages. Fortunately the Oxford English Dictionary has adopted it, but in the process they have ditched their own excellent method of representing English pronunciation to English speakers.

Are you aware that Thai spelling is sometimes incapable of providing a correct representation? The simplest examples are เงิน and เล่น, both with short vowels, though in the latter case the percentage shot is to guess a short vowel because of the tone mark.

[gburns57au]

There are many accurate ways of doing it phonetically.

Yes there is and most of them fail miserably...as we have seen already in this thread...

Learn the alphabet and learn to pronounce the words properly....then you have half a chance.

In hindsight, i think i would have started with the reading and writing as it makes it a lot easier to pronounce.

I agree with Wuggiman.

I attended four months of conversation classes at two Thai language schools in Bangkok.

I still could not understand everyday speach.

Then a year ago I found a private teacher.

He insisted that I learn to read and write.

Only then did I start to make progress.

Now I know that the only way to learn the correct tones is to learn to read the Thai script.

English and phonetic alphabets are not capable of correct transliteration.

Yes, learning to read Thai is difficult, but it's not impossible.

To learn a few phrases conversation classes in a typical language school can be fun.

But the only way to really understand and pronounce the tones is with a private teacher who will correct your mistakes and drill the sounds over and over again.

And the only way to understand the tones - and the tone rules - is to learn to read.

The context within which you use a certain word and its position in a sentence along with the other words used will determine the right word in most cases....For instance the word Mai, if you were in a silk shop and used the term "mai Paeng" the listener would not translate that as "silk expensive" A very basic example but the reasoning holds true in most cases.....You dont need to concentrate so much on tones when you are starting off....If you want to advance to the next level then start learning the tones.

[Richard W]

There are many accurate ways of doing it phonetically.

Yes there is and most of them fail miserably...as we have seen already in this thread...

We haven't seen an accurately quoted complete system on this thread.

In a way it's a shame no-one has been pedantic enough to insist on [ML]kaw [L]kai (allowing the equivalents kor/gaw/gor of 'kaw'). Unfortunately, that would put some people off.

Incidentally, the thumbnail actually shows kɔɔ kay. The first two vowels are open 'o's (originally an upside down 'c'), not ordinary 'o's - U+0254 if you want to look it up at, say IPA Extensions. That makes a big difference. I'm not sure about the mark above the 'a', though. It doesn't look like a grave.

[UncleDonald]

There is a promising new experimental method for learning reading and pronounciation at

www.auntiedahtestsite.blogspot.com

Perhaps with some encouragement this can be developed further

[sleepyjohn]

BRILLIANT METHOD for slightly more advanced readers.

I have been relaxedly trying to improve my reading of Thai and I've found a marvellous new place to do it.

I watch and listen to a movie on UBC.

I automatically try to translate what's said to Thai.

When I don't know something, I press the OK button on the remote....it freezes the frame....I read how it's said.

I learn the language as it is actually spoken...and how it's written!

IT"S BRILLIANT!

And to the original poster with the Union Jack i suggest you get a kiddie's wall chart of the Alphabet, pictures and all, and start there.

[gburns57au]

There are many accurate ways of doing it phonetically.

Yes there is and most of them fail miserably...as we have seen already in this thread...

We haven't seen an accurately quoted complete system on this thread.

In a way it's a shame no-one has been pedantic enough to insist on [ML]kaw [L]kai (allowing the equivalents kor/gaw/gor of 'kaw'). Unfortunately, that would put some people off.

Incidentally, the thumbnail actually shows kɔɔ kay. The first two vowels are open 'o's (originally an upside down 'c'), not ordinary 'o's - U+0254 if you want to look it up at, say IPA Extensions. That makes a big difference. I'm not sure about the mark above the 'a', though. It doesn't look like a grave.

I probably should have wrote that better...I meant the thumbnail was an example tho,

I should have wrote that I have seen a lot of books and seen a lot of particular systems on various forums that dont even come close to the mark. It ws a source of frustration to me in the early days that I would try quoting from a book and never be understood.....It was only when I learnt to read and write that I learnt how to pronounce correctly.

[AsiaWolfie]

I think the only way to learn the Thai fonts is being teached by a HUMAN BEING, no good software can do that. I moved to LOS less than 1 year ago and started to learn Thai soon after, but due to the fact that I have to do a lot of travelling in Asia and Europe, I hardly stayed in BKK for a period of 4 weeks or longer.... so my learning was of course not very successfull so far, as I always had to interrupt the classes. But about the reading: there is a German guy in Northern Thailand. he lives there in a small village close to Mae Sai since almost 20 years with his Thai wife, they organize motorbike tours and rent a few basic rooms on their premises to travellers. He has created what can only be called a "BIBLE OF THAI LANGUAGE" in all the years he lived there, hand written, and no printed version available. it contains some hundred pages, the only topic of that huge book is THAI FONTS .... I am pretty much sure he knows more of the Thai language and fonts (and even the history of each font, many of them are only used in a few uncommon words, for example: ancient religious terms) than 99% of the Thai people.

He teaches to read the fonts in a unique way, and he even has created different teaching systems for English, French and German native speakers so they can more easily adopt the pronounciation.

I couldnt believe that only after about 20 hours in 5 days (and I can say, we worked hard), I was able to read 98% of the words. It was some kind of a "science" of course, and I always needed my textbook we created during my stay there, to read the words slowly and slowly.... but it worked.... my only problem was, that only a few days after that week, I had to leave Thailand again for another 3 weeks due to some business activities, and so I couldnt practise and forgot most if it..... but I will do a "refreshment" week there soon and I am pretty much sure I will be able to read fluently after that week, if I continue practising in everydays life, and force myself to read the street signs, restaurant-menues, blackboards.... all that..... and to remind you again: I can hardly SPEAK more Thai than "NUENG SAWNG SAAM...."

what that guy does there in the North is still a hidden secret, and he only has about 5-10 students a year as he doesnt do any marketing or promotion for that, but his work cannot be valued high enough. definitely worth the money, and its not expensive. i paid him about 6000 for the week, had to look for an accomodation (though u can sleep in his basic fan-huts for cheap, but its a very remote area in a small village, was too boring for me and my sweetie after 2 nights, so we decided to sleep in Chiang Rai the next 3 days). I rented a car at NORTHWHEELS (good reliable company, BTW) so after 4 hours of hard work in the morning or afternoon, we had enough sparetime to relax (and read some road signs to practise on our way, of course) and did some great insider-tours with him, as he knows almost every tree, rock, every policeman, every soldier of the boarder-brigade up there in the North. and he brings u to places a regular tourist will never see.... but well, thats another story then.....

Terdsak, as u r not far from my place, if you want, I can show u what kind of big hand-written BOOK we (that teaching guy and myself) have created in just 1 week, which will be very helpful for me in my future life in LOS for sure.... if u r interested or if any other person wanna know more, feel free to PM me.

One thing I must add: as most geniusses, this guy may appear a little excentric to some.... maybe not everybody's taste, but I got along with him very very well, and at most evenings we were sitting in front of one of the huts, having some (or plenty of) beers and sharing our experiences about life and travelling in Asia....

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I used to work at AUA and it was a running joke with all the staff that the 3 Thai books were hopeless. Of course it may be suited to different learners.

I could have learnt Thai at AUA, teachers pay 500 per term, but the course had a wee bit of a reputation of only being as good as the teacher. Eg. one teacher would give beginner students 15 mins of free speach with a partner if she was short of activities.

I am using the Oxford English picture dictionary. There is no transliteration, but there is plenty space to grab somebody and tell them what you should write down. It's aimed at adults, unlike other pict-dicts which are heavily slanted towards kids.

[p_brownstone]

However, in that case you are either in ignorance or lying.

That was unnecessarily harsh don't you think?

To get back on topic.

Personally I can never understand why anyone would waste time learning a transcription system in order to “write” Thai - it's totally useless outside academia; certainly no Thai could understand what you wrote and there are no newspapers or other media which use it. There were a few people on the old soc.culture.thai newsgroup who took great pleasure in their ability to write to each other in their esoteric little code, which was about all it was useful for - a private exchange of messages within a small group of people.

Far better to learn the actual Thai alphabet which will be of use to you in day to day life in Thailand and significantly enrich your stay here.

Personally I did not find Thai at all difficult to learn to read - I taught myself from road signs, menus, magazines etc., and never took a formal lesson in my life.

Patrick

Edited January 15, 2006 by p_brownstone

[bannork]

We've had this discussion before but I couldn't help but echo the previous poster's sentiments. Why on earth learn a complicated transcription system? Reading and writing Thai is not difficult, it's far more phonetic than English inspite of the few exceptions Richard raises, so as mentioned in an earlier post your pronunciation improves 1000 percent.

I learnt from a self-help book, written by a Dutch or Belgian lady about 12 years ago. Once I worked out the tonal groups and rules I started to read children's books, writing down every new word in large notebooks, separate books for nouns, adjectives, verbs, prepositions, phrases and slang\conversation. I wrote the words in a dictionary form, ie the first few blank pages were A, then B, etc. So I've constructed my own English-Thai dictionary as it were.

When I found I had already written the word down and hadn't been able to remember it I wrote it on a small piece of yellow card, Thai on one side, English on the other. I'd put it in my top pocket and when I had nothing to do, ie in a traffic jam, waiting for the missus shopping etc, I'd pull out the cards and look at the English side, trying to remember the Thai.

I eventually got on to newspapers, I still ring the words or phrases I don't know and then write them down once I've found the meaning, now I may find 3 or 4 a day.

Learning to read is laborious at first, constantly opening the dictionary, but once you've got enough vocab under your belt it becomes a real pleasure.

[buadhai]

Here's what hasn't worked for me:

I set out on a real campaign to learn the Thai characters. I bought a pre-school workbook. I worked on one character per day. I'd trace the character on the provided page and say it out loud each time I wrote it. Then I'd write it out freehand in the space provided; again saying it out loud each time. Finally, I'd open a composition book and fill a page will the character set I'd learned so far. Once I figured I'd "learned" a character I'd put a sticker with that character on my computer monitor bezel.

As reinforcement I made a flash card deck on 3X5 cards. I even created a deck for the computer based Flash Card Suite: Thai Character Flash Card Deck. I also kept a character chart on the wall above my computer monitor.

I never made it past Yor Ying. After that I just couldn't learn any more. All that practice and all that repetition and I only know the first 13 characters by name.

On the other hand, extensive study with Rosetta Stone has enabled me to read quite a bit; even though I don't know the names of the characters, and only have sort of a vague idea of how they sound. So, even though I can read a sentence and know what it means, I can't really pronounce it very well or say it so that a Thai person would understand what I meant. (I imagine it's sort of like a hearing impaired person learning how to read even though they can't hear or produce spoken words.)

But, I can read things like street signs, adverts and restaurant menus as long as a reasonably standard Thai typeface (font) is used.

Brain dead, I guess.

[Richard W]

However, in that case you are either in ignorance or lying.

That was unnecessarily harsh don't you think?

No. The lie needs nailing.

Personally I can never understand why anyone would waste time learning a transcription system in order to “write” Thai - it's totally useless outside academia; certainly no Thai could understand what you wrote and there are no newspapers or other media which use it.

A *transliteration* is actually quite useful on the fringes of academia, where you may wish to discuss matters with people who do not have the time to learn dozens of different scripts.

You may also remember that Sabaijai proposed a scheme that approximates the inadequate but official transcription scheme that is frequently used in Thailand, for example on road signs. I reckon I can read the Thai alphabet, but I always find the transcribed place names easier to read than the Thai script despite their being about half the (x-)size.

A transcription system is most useful when people do not need to learn much to use it. This often applies to people who have learnt several languages. It can be useful to other people who have yet to learn the Thai alphabet, and may never learn it. Finally, it serves at a fall back when people uses systems that do not support the entry of Thai - Thai input editors are not available by default even in Windows XP, and only adminstrators can enable them.

There were a few people on the old soc.culture.thai newsgroup who took great pleasure in their ability to write to each other in their esoteric little code, which was about all it was useful for - a private exchange of messages within a small group of people.

A transliteration scheme would have been better - but บ ด ฎ make the graphic methods difficult. The ISO transliteration seems to be an unused monstrosity. Also, they were restricted to ASCII.

[chanchao]

> A transcription system is most useful when people do not need to learn

> much to use it. This often applies to people who have learnt several

> languages. It can be useful to other people who have yet to learn the

> Thai alphabet, and may never learn it.

May I remind you that the original poster was enquiring specifically to learn to read Thai, for the purpose of getting to a stage where he is no longer illiterate in Thailand and can read signs, menus and memos and emails and the like?

Looking at your post, if I'm going to learn to write things like "[ML]kaw [L]kai" and "kɔɔ kay" then I'll just stick with actual Thai. Easier, and 60 million Thais will understand me.

And for those select cases where you're discussing Thai language with fellow Thai speaking foreigners by teletype or Windows 1.0 or a mainframe text terminal or somewhere else where Thai input is not available, then a basic on the fly transcription will do because they'd be able to figure out what the word is.

Not having Thai input is getting more and more a thing of the past.. Thai text input can be turned on in Windows XP or any Linux version in seconds.

It really only applies to archaic text systems like perhaps teletype or 7 bit Usenet newsgroups.. Indeed soc.culture.thai had a transliteration system that only used 7 bit ASCII. It was kind of neat, and served the purpose very well. Outside of s.c.t. of course it had no function whatsoever.

> Finally, it serves at a fall back when people uses systems that do not

> support the entry of Thai - Thai input editors are not available by default

> even in Windows XP, and only adminstrators can enable them

True. With so many transliteration systems out there (as many as there are foreigners speaking Thai it seems sometimes) the chances of someone else using your preferred system are not that good. So again, in that case just use something basic and chances are the other person will figure out what that soup was when you write 'tom khaa kai'. But equally I will understand if that other person chooses to write it like 'tom ka gai'.

It's silly to get religious over transliteration systems, and especially about which one is better than any other one. Use Thai then, it's the only method of writing Thai phonetically that's perfect.

Shucks, forgot to answer the question. Guess I'm guilty as charged on getting religious over transliteration..

Ok, to learn Thai language when you already speak it well, I don't think you should be bothering with any of the courses/classes as they will all assume that you don't speak Thai so it will start at a very basic level.

I'd just get some books. Even though it's archaic to the max, I still love 'The Fundamentals of the Thai Language'. I have it as a computer file here as well, PM me if you want a copy. This book starts out teaching written Thai language pretty much from the first page. Don't be fooled by the ancient looking transliteration scheme they use alongside the Thai text, the book was written in 1950 or something when apparently they couldn't print anything that wasn't A-Z and a-z.