Dives With Twin Tanks

[h90]

Certified in the UK.

No I meant what agency?

As it is common PADI knowledge that you'll die at 41 meter, or at least the SCUBA police will catch you .

[Crushdepth]

I agree H90, If you want to look at partial pressures, a 55m dive on air is safe, although PADI might make you believe something different. I'm certified to 55m but i'm no techy. What I am is regular diver that has practiced and honed his skills.

I wouldn't call it safe - at 55 m on air you will in all probability be narced out of your head and your ability to respond to problems will be impaired. While PADI's certification depth limits may be arbitrary they are also fairly sensible, especially when you consider that many of the people . It's no coincidence that they set a rec limit of 30 meters, and the deep dives to 40 with extra training. They also say "do not push the limits", which is excellent and frequently overlooked advice.

[h90]

Well people go much deeper on air. A lot old CMAS go over 60 meter without any problems.

A lot crazy people go even further. There is a lake in Austria there they play the "touch the 100", every year a few die....

I don't see a problem at 55 meter, if someone is well trained. experienced and the conditions are good.

That deep diver training from PADI is for nothing in my opinion.

I think that is a shocking statememt:

"The PADI Deep Diver CourseScuba divers discover beautiful coral reef

After your first few scuba dives, you soon want to explore a bit deeper. There’s something exciting and mysterious about the depth that attracts dives."

40 meters after the first few scuba dives?

In Rachows book about deep diving he speaks about 600-700 minimum logged dives (and not only in Maldive) before considering deep diving on air.

[LucidLucifer]

55m is very doable, although it is at the extreme end of things, I won't argue with that (i did say if you look at partial pressures it is safe, i wasn't recommending it, there are always other factors to consider). However PADI's depth limits are simply a load of b0ll0cks, they call anything beyond 18m a 'deep dive.' Nonsense.

With the proper kit , proper training (and I don't mean the deep diver speciality), with experience and depth progression, you can do much more.

Other agencies dive well beyond 40m on air.They've done it for decades, and will continue to do it. PADI set their depth limits because a) the limited training and equipment they provide doesn't equip you to go beyond their set limits (of course they will teach you, but you'll have to pay for it), their US roots and the litigation culture in America made it prudent to set such 'limited' limits.

Of course, with PADI's no-deco policy, any dive beyond 40m would be nothing more than a bounce, i'll admit that. Hardly worth it unless you're going to go into planned deco. Ah...deco...who's gonna tell me now that that that shouldn't be done?

Edited April 12, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[LucidLucifer]

40 meters after the first few scuba dives?

i'm shuddering just at that thought, but if you grease the palm of a PADI dive centre with silver, i'm sure they'll have no problem with selling you yet another course to take you that deep, regardless of your inate ability. Of course, you'll be diving of the back of a boat, so you'll also need the boat diving speciality $$$cher-ching$$....and visiting a wreck, so you'll need a wreck diving cert $$$cher-ching$$$, and maybe you'll need to know how to put up a dsmb....$$$cher-ching$$$....but now you have 4 specialities, get 1 more and the rescue diver (so you can actually help someone in distress - hang on a minute - shouldn't that be covered in the basic training!!!???) they'll teach you that to....$$$cher-ching$$$, and you can be a master scuba diver....and now you've proudly become the highest non-professional level scuba diver you can be (and skint). Next step....GO PRO!!!! and pyramid sell some courses yourself.

[h90]

40 meters after the first few scuba dives?

i'm shuddering just at that thought, but if you grease the palm of a PADI dive centre with silver, i'm sure they'll have no problem with selling you yet another course to take you that deep, regardless of your inate ability. Of course, you'll be diving of the back of a boat, so you'll also need the boat diving speciality $$$cher-ching$$....and visiting a wreck, so you'll need a wreck diving cert $$$cher-ching$$$, and maybe you'll need to know how to put up a dsmb....$$$cher-ching$$$....but now you have 4 specialities, get 1 more and the rescue diver (so you can actually help someone in distress - hang on a minute - shouldn't that be covered in the basic training!!!???) they'll teach you that to....$$$cher-ching$$$, and you can be a master scuba diver....and now you've proudly become the highest non-professional level scuba diver you can be (and skint). Next step....GO PRO!!!! and pyramid sell some courses yourself.

Well on the other side almost all PADI centers limits the max deep to 30 meter and find some lame excuses why not to go to some interesting spots that are deeper.

As well almost always the assign you a Dive-Nanny. So no need to plan something...follow the nanny

So as long as you keep in the PADI-Ecosystem it is safe.

The Go Pro is different: from zero to hero in Pattaya you end as Dive Master after 60 dives in 3 (I might be wrong on that) Month, only seeing the same 3 spots.

[Crushdepth]

I don't think anyone would argue that PADI courses are as close to a Ponzi scheme as you can get without being arrested (I presume most of the other agencies are not much different). The advanced course in particular is a total money jag IMHO.

Ok I'll stick my neck out and say deco shouldn't be done for recreational purposes Of course there are plenty of people who have the skills and experience and are responsible enough to do it safely, but there are a lot of crazies out there. PADI has to prepare their courses for the average punter. If my random dive buddies are any indication, Joe Average is usually inexperienced and/or rusty and is oblivious to the potential risks of their actions.

I've never had a serious accident happen while I've been out, but I have several friends who have encountered fatalities, and a few who have been bent on routine no-deco dives. Sure you can do deco dives, I'm just saying its not something I would recommend for the average punter, nor doing frequently. The public can get themselves into plenty of trouble as it is.

[LucidLucifer]

The Go Pro is different: from zero to hero in Pattaya you end as Dive Master after 60 dives in 3 (I might be wrong on that) Month, only seeing the same 3 spots.

and 30+ of those were probably at 6m doing this kind of thing with student divers:

I don't think anyone would argue that PADI courses are as close to a Ponzi scheme as you can get without being arrested (I presume most of the other agencies are not much different). The advanced course in particular is a total money jag IMHO.

Ok I'll stick my neck out and say deco shouldn't be done for recreational purposes Of course there are plenty of people who have the skills and experience and are responsible enough to do it safely, but there are a lot of crazies out there. PADI has to prepare their courses for the average punter. If my random dive buddies are any indication, Joe Average is usually inexperienced and/or rusty and is oblivious to the potential risks of their actions.

I've never had a serious accident happen while I've been out, but I have several friends who have encountered fatalities, and a few who have been bent on routine no-deco dives. Sure you can do deco dives, I'm just saying its not something I would recommend for the average punter, nor doing frequently. The public can get themselves into plenty of trouble as it is.

Wise and true words.....

[h90]

I don't think anyone would argue that PADI courses are as close to a Ponzi scheme as you can get without being arrested (I presume most of the other agencies are not much different). The advanced course in particular is a total money jag IMHO.

Ok I'll stick my neck out and say deco shouldn't be done for recreational purposes Of course there are plenty of people who have the skills and experience and are responsible enough to do it safely, but there are a lot of crazies out there. PADI has to prepare their courses for the average punter. If my random dive buddies are any indication, Joe Average is usually inexperienced and/or rusty and is oblivious to the potential risks of their actions.

I've never had a serious accident happen while I've been out, but I have several friends who have encountered fatalities, and a few who have been bent on routine no-deco dives. Sure you can do deco dives, I'm just saying its not something I would recommend for the average punter, nor doing frequently. The public can get themselves into plenty of trouble as it is.

I complete agree. But want to add: This separation between technical diver and recreation diver is also a PADI concept. Actually a marketing concept. And we all start to think in their marketing terms. Of course it isn't something for Joe Average. And of course PADI is making it right and it guarantees safety for everyone. Just I am a bit annoyed by them.....

[LucidLucifer]

The thing I find annoying is that PADI, or rather dive-nannies (i liked that one H90) and instructors have such a closed mind about alternative practices. They preach the PADI gospel as if it was the word of God.

I was speaking to a BSAC National Instructor about 2 months ago, this guy sits on the National Committee, has done for years. He was one of the authors of the BSAC rebreather courses. He was saying that it is good to look at, and take on board, what other agencies are doing. There is no single right way.

[h90]

The thing I find annoying is that PADI, or rather dive-nannies (i liked that one H90) and instructors have such a closed mind about alternative practices. They preach the PADI gospel as if it was the word of God.

I was speaking to a BSAC National Instructor about 2 months ago, this guy sits on the National Committee, has done for years. He was one of the authors of the BSAC rebreather courses. He was saying that it is good to look at, and take on board, what other agencies are doing. There is no single right way.

Wise words from the BSAC National Instructor.