Thai Residents Only

[jshorts]

Email the resort and ask them for an explanation. If it`s discriminatory make it public knowledge. This wouldn`t be acceptable among western nations so there is no reason why a Thai outfit should think it`s okay.

The fact that it wouldn't be acceptable among western nations has nothing whatever to do with Thailand. You're in Thailand not in the west. There are many things done in many countries around the world that wouldn't be acceptable in the west. If the OP finds it unacceptable Thailand is not short of alternative hotels.

"if the OP finds it unacceptable, there are many other countries in the world the OP might find more welcoming."

[jshorts]

A good way to look at many things in Thailand is that Thai's are present tense people. They do not think in the future and I am not saying this in a negative way. It's the truth. This is why you see many thai's on motorcycles just turn onto a street without looking etc.

Same as when tourism is slow and Hotels have very few customers the will raise the price of the rooms thinking that they have to make the money up somehow with so few customers instead of thing that they should be lowering the prices in order to attract more customers.

That's why many food stalls, markets etc. try to charge more for a farang thinking it's better to take the extra 10 baht now instead of thinking you might possibly be a future customer if they don't cheat you.

They are not trying to be mean to us as many people here think. It is their upbringing from their school days and the fact that the Thai's do not uses future tense words of have future tense in their grammar. Only when they are being taught by farangs does "tenses" come into their grammar for the furst time.

Does Thai have past tense?

[yermanee]

Perfect example of a thread devised for one purpose only : Thai bashing.

Too many of this kind of topics on Thaivisa lately.

And to SPR&Q : I have arthritis in both my knees, can you explain to me how to use a Thai (French) toilet

Yermanee

Edited February 26, 2012 by yermanee

[Soutpeel]

Perfect example of a thread devised for one purpose only : Thai bashing.

Too many of this kind of topics on Thaivisa lately.

And to SPR&Q : I have arthritis in both my knees, can you explain to me how to use a Thai (French) toilet

Yermanee

Get a milking stool and cut a hole in the seat

[yermanee]

Perfect example of a thread devised for one purpose only : Thai bashing.

Too many of this kind of topics on Thaivisa lately.

And to SPR&Q : I have arthritis in both my knees, can you explain to me how to use a Thai (French) toilet

Yermanee

Get a milking stool and cut a hole in the seat

This is the travel forum, and I like to travel in style, but thanks for the suggestion

Yermanee

[wolf5370]

Stayed in a hotel in BKK once. There was a big sign in English and Thai stating breakfast was included in the room. I booked two room and planned on staying ten days or so as we were visiting family and I prefered the hotel to not put the relatives out.

Anyway, next moring had breakfast, everything fine. Following morning half way thorugh breakfast a women approaches and said that breakfast was 500 baht. I showed her the room keys and said, "Incduded in the room". She went away. Five minutes later the manager comes in, the woman pointing from the door, and he repeats. I said, "Sign says included in the price".

"Oh no sir, this only Thai customer"

"Then why is the sign in English? Why was it fine yesterday? and why does the sign not state that restriction?"

Looking really confused he said "today OK - tomorrow you pay". So finished breakfast and booked out.

Mrs was upstairs at the time, otherwise the manager would have been in for a little bit of a worse time!

Wouldn't have minded but we had two double rooms and only two of us had breakfast - and then only toast, kow tom and coffee. Lost them over a week of off-season trade for two rooms for the sake of 50 baht a day or so.

[wolf5370]

A good way to look at many things in Thailand is that Thai's are present tense people. They do not think in the future and I am not saying this in a negative way. It's the truth. This is why you see many thai's on motorcycles just turn onto a street without looking etc.

Same as when tourism is slow and Hotels have very few customers the will raise the price of the rooms thinking that they have to make the money up somehow with so few customers instead of thing that they should be lowering the prices in order to attract more customers.

That's why many food stalls, markets etc. try to charge more for a farang thinking it's better to take the extra 10 baht now instead of thinking you might possibly be a future customer if they don't cheat you.

They are not trying to be mean to us as many people here think. It is their upbringing from their school days and the fact that the Thai's do not uses future tense words of have future tense in their grammar. Only when they are being taught by farangs does "tenses" come into their grammar for the furst time.

Does Thai have past tense?

Thai has both future nd past tense - botht through context and words such as 'ja' and 'leow'.

[chiangmaiexpat]

You've apparently learned very little in your time here in Thailand. I suspect you hang out with too many farangs. But in either case, let it go.

With all due respect, do I know you? I don't need you to tell me about learning things in Thailand. For your information, I have lived here for 20 years, my family is fully bilingual/bicultural, and I have 12 years experience in intercultural management. So, please spare me the diatribe about 'this is how it works in Thailand'.

It is my observation that some foreigners -after living here for a few years- appear to loose their capacity for critical thinking (not that I am implying you are one of them, iPhoneBKK). This is evidenced by the many farangs driving around without helmets, or adapting other bad Thai habits, who when asked would point out that 'this is the way it works in Thailand'. Yes, that may be the case, but does the mere fact of commonness provide justification?

I thank people for pointing out the difference between 'residents' and 'nationals', but this makes it only slightly less unpleasant. If the hotel decides to offer a low season promotion, why not just extend it to everybody? I can't think of any sound reason why not to.

Of course, Thailand is not the only place where double pricing is (thankfully only occasionally) applied, but first that does not justify the practice, and second, well, I do live in Thailand, and therefore I care more about it than double pricing in Las Vegas, China, or Austria.

Cheers, CMX

[madjbs]

I thank people for pointing out the difference between 'residents' and 'nationals', but this makes it only slightly less unpleasant. If the hotel decides to offer a low season promotion, why not just extend it to everybody? I can't think of any sound reason why not to.

A hotel is a BUSINESS, their aim is to make money. They don't reduce the price for non residents as they have obviously found that it doesn't make much difference to the numbers of foreign guests staying there at that time. i.e less elastic demand than domestic guests. Therefore they have no reason to reduce the price, as it would actually lead to a fall in revenue. With the elastic demand of domestic travellers, reducing the price must lead to quite a few more guests checking in and therefore possibly a rise in revenue. The misguided pet hates of a few random foreigners are not going to make any difference to them overall, and that is why they stick to sound business/economic principles to improve the revenue of their business.

Edited February 26, 2012 by madjbs

[jshorts]

A good way to look at many things in Thailand is that Thai's are present tense people. They do not think in the future and I am not saying this in a negative way. It's the truth. This is why you see many thai's on motorcycles just turn onto a street without looking etc.

Same as when tourism is slow and Hotels have very few customers the will raise the price of the rooms thinking that they have to make the money up somehow with so few customers instead of thing that they should be lowering the prices in order to attract more customers.

That's why many food stalls, markets etc. try to charge more for a farang thinking it's better to take the extra 10 baht now instead of thinking you might possibly be a future customer if they don't cheat you.

They are not trying to be mean to us as many people here think. It is their upbringing from their school days and the fact that the Thai's do not uses future tense words of have future tense in their grammar. Only when they are being taught by farangs does "tenses" come into their grammar for the furst time.

Does Thai have past tense?

Thai has both future nd past tense - botht through context and words such as 'ja' and 'leow'.

My question was really directed at the poster who said that Thai does not have tenses.

[Somtamnication]

Massive confusion here between local charges and THAI ONLY. Nowhere in a developed world will you see English Only, French Only... Locals yes..sure, why not give special pricing. Until a few years ago, locals would not be welcome in their local hotels back in the UK.

Have you been to Japan?

Nope, but then again, Orientals are a special bunch.

[samran]

I thank people for pointing out the difference between 'residents' and 'nationals', but this makes it only slightly less unpleasant. If the hotel decides to offer a low season promotion, why not just extend it to everybody? I can't think of any sound reason why not to.

There is a very basic concept in economics called 'price discrimination'.

Madjbs has already alluded to it.

You can charge everyone the same price - and inevitably some people who were willing to pay more will be happy with that, but that uniform price might exclude a whole market of customers who might buy it if only it was priced a little less.

Ideally you would like to charge every potential client according their maximum willingness to pay and as a result you'll maximise profits across all consumer segments.

Someone who wants it more (inelastic demand) gets charged more. Someone who is neither here nor there, or in some cases has a lower ability to pay (think pensioners) you charge them less so long as a profit is still made ( inelastic demand).

That is what hotels are doing, lower pricing to attract local residents who, on average, might not otherwise think about going on holiday during the low season ( for instance).

It is a perfectly legitimate business strategy, and is done often.

[chiangmaiexpat]

A hotel is a BUSINESS, their aim is to make money. [...] The misguided pet hates of a few random foreigners are not going to make any difference to them overall, and that is why they stick to sound business/economic principles to improve the revenue of their business.

I am aware of the economical reasoning, thank you, but where we differ is that I don't find these to be sound business principles. On the contrary, these "principles of profit maximisation" can easily backfire. If customers find out that they are paying different rates based on nationality or residence status, it can cause quite a bit of irritation among guests, as exemplified by the experience of wolf5370. Ultimately, this is reputation damaging and cannot be in the interest of any hotel.

Cheers, CMX

[madjbs]

Sorry I think only a small minority of people would complain about different rates for residents and non residents. It's common all around the world for lots of different things and people are used to it and understand it. If it was nationality or race I would agree but that is completely different to what is happening here.

Edited February 26, 2012 by madjbs

[chiangmaiexpat]

It's common all around the world for lots of different things and people are used to it and understand it.

We've discussed this before. Again, my experience is that it is not common at all.

During the dot.com boom, I have been working closely with the tourism industry in Thailand over a number of years. On of my jobs was to specify computer algorithms to calculate hotel room rates, such as the ones used in online quotations on the web. Room rate calculation is a bit complex, because you have to consider room types, seasonal rates, weekend surcharges, mandatory and non-mandatory meals, discounts, and what not. Believe me, resident discounts are not on the list. They are so uncommon that they are usually not represented algorithmically and thus have to be abstracted by some other means, for example by a different room type, as in case of the Agoda site.

So, no one can tell me that this is a common practice, sorry, I don't mean to nitpicking, but it's simply not the case.

Cheers, CMX

[citizen33]

As mentioned in an earlier post (with link), in the EU offering different prices to local residents and tourists is not lawful, except in certain defined circumstances, such as when local taxes part finance the attraction/service in question or extra delivery charges apply. EU lawyers and economists have indeed looked at the theory of price discrimination and decided that such practices run counter to the principles of the single market. So the practice may not be quite as universal as some are suggesting.

[madjbs]

^Actually you are incorrect there.

That EU directive applies to "EU nationals" only. It says you can not price discriminate between different EU nationals and local residents. Different prices for non EU nationals is still legal it would seem.

Edited February 26, 2012 by madjbs

[citizen33]

I think the statement is substantially correct. It may be true that the intent of the regulation does not strictly apply to non-EU nationals but that is not the typical scenario that earlier posters are describing. In most cases regulations that prohibit discriminatory practices that offer local residents an advantage over EU citizens would also end discrimination against other non-locals. In a slightly different context concerned with air fares (REGULATION (EC) No 1008/2008) the relevant section says:

2. Without prejudice to Article 16(1), access to air fares and air rates for air services from an airport located in the territory of a

Member State to which the Treaty applies, available to the general public shall be granted without any discrimination based on the

nationality or the place of residence of the customer or on the place of establishment of the air carrier's agent or other ticket

seller within the Community.

Thus the regulations are usually cast in terms that do not make it possible to discriminate between EU and non EU foriegn nationals.

What I think it incorrect is your earlier post asserting that these practices are "common all around the world".

[madjbs]

Disneyland does it for all their parks in the USA....Airlines do it everywhere outside the EU (through ways which make it less noticeable)...Other people have mentioned other examples...

[KKK]

i don't know but i would guess almost every country has some deals like that discriminating against or for one group or another...

But that doesn't make it right.......discrimination in any form, race, creed, sex etc is plain and simple WRONG....

[pomchop]

i don't know but i would guess almost every country has some deals like that discriminating against or for one group or another...

But that doesn't make it right.......discrimination in any form, race, creed, sex etc is plain and simple WRONG....

i never said it made it right but to say that only thailand does it is just flat out incorrect......but who is kidding who? Should there be no discounts for kids? Should there be no senior citizens discounts? Should there be no ladies nights? They all discriminate one way or another. Is it "right" for a 10 y.o. kid or an 80 y.o. senior to pay the same price for a buffett as a 300 lb adult who will eat six times as much? Is it "right" for a bar to let girls in for free but charge the men? Of course on it's face all discrimination is wrong...but then again sometimes so is flat rate pricing.

[pomchop]

It's common all around the world for lots of different things and people are used to it and understand it.

We've discussed this before. Again, my experience is that it is not common at all.

During the dot.com boom, I have been working closely with the tourism industry in Thailand over a number of years. On of my jobs was to specify computer algorithms to calculate hotel room rates, such as the ones used in online quotations on the web. Room rate calculation is a bit complex, because you have to consider room types, seasonal rates, weekend surcharges, mandatory and non-mandatory meals, discounts, and what not. Believe me, resident discounts are not on the list. They are so uncommon that they are usually not represented algorithmically and thus have to be abstracted by some other means, for example by a different room type, as in case of the Agoda site.

So, no one can tell me that this is a common practice, sorry, I don't mean to nitpicking, but it's simply not the case.

Cheers, CMX

the problem with your logic that it is an uncommon practice is you leave out the thousands of small mom and pop hotels/guest houses all over thailand who are not and never will be listed in some online booking site that uses algorithms...the more expensive larger hotels yes might be interested in rate management and sophisticated computer models but the large expensive hotels are NOT the dominant number of room inventory.....what percent of the total room inventory in thailand is listed on agoda? I would guess a relatively small number.

[sattahipchris]

I know of three pubs in my home area of Devon that have a flexible pricing structure. When the holidaymakers arrive in the summer the price of pint goes up but the locals still pay the winter prices. As one landlord said the season is short and I rely on the locals for my living year long.

[chiangmaiexpat]

the problem with your logic that it is an uncommon practice is you leave out the thousands of small mom and pop hotels/guest houses all over thailand who are not and never will be listed in some online booking site that uses algorithms...the more expensive larger hotels yes might be interested in rate management and sophisticated computer models but the large expensive hotels are NOT the dominant number of room inventory.....what percent of the total room inventory in thailand is listed on agoda? I would guess a relatively small number.

That may have been so back in the nineties, but now almost every hotel is bookable via the Internet, because hardly any hotel can afford not to be online. The only exception I can think of are small private guest houses who operate on the fringe of the market, but they don't provide a significant number of inventory.

Online booking systems aren't limited to big hotels. Actually, the effort and investment to go online is quite low, as the technology is handled by specialised Internet agents, so the Internet has ultimately levelled the playing field for the service providers. I would even go as far as saying that the rennaissance of small-scale "boutique hotels", which began in the late ninties / early 2000s, is due to the advent of B2C online reservation systems.

Cheers, CMX

[bendix]

A bunch silly answers on this thread. Lop and madjbs have it.

For a long time now Thai hotels have offered special discount rates for local residents. Either Thai citizens or foreigners with yearly extensions, work permits etc.

Friends working in BKK and I have utilised these deals often.

No discrimination based on race etc. if you have the proper visa and/ or Thai ID then you get the rate.

Exactly. Why are people so willing to see intrigue around them. This is a perfectly valid practice for hotels in all sorts of markets - they are offering special rates for Thai residents (and as Samran said, that includes foreigners working here) to boost domestic tourism. The rooms are NOT excluded from foreigners, but they will get a different rate.

I see it everywhere I travel - promos for locals to encourage them to use hotels and travel in their own country.

[kurtmartens]

CMX, it's life, deal with it. The amount of time you've wasted on this could be better spent.......(fill in the blank)

You've apparently learned very little in your time here in Thailand. I suspect you hang out with too many farangs. But in either case, let it go. Life goes on. There are many more important things to 'worry' about. If there was an epidemic of this kind of behavior, well then there might be cause for concern. But 1 hotel, and you didn't even follow-up to see what "Thai residents only" means, come on now son.

Seeing the bigoted trolls (and I do not mean you CMX) in forums like this, the loud mouth drunken tourists, obnoxious/rude/argumentative expats, the nickle and diming backpackers, etc. etc. around Thailand, it surprises me that there aren't MORE hotels like this. What does "Thai residents only" mean to me? It means the place will be relatively quiet, there won't be drunken people wandering around, there won't be shouting matches, there won't be sex tourists and bar girls, there won't be people thinking they are getting screwed because they're not Thai when they aren't getting screwed, there won't be people stumbling in at 4 a.m. making a rucus, there won't be people arguing with the front desk, etc. etc. Why shouldn't they provide this service for the person who wants nothing more than to NOT see farang. I can assure you that I would certainly be in the market for such accomodations, even though I am a farang. Nothing would please me more than to go to a place that states "Thai residents only" as I know that I would most certainly be welcomed because I've adjusted my behavior to fit in more smoothly with Thai culture as opposed to what most do, NOTHING.

And for those of you talking about "Thai prices", I'm sorry, you still have a lot to learn about business in Thailand. I could say more, but I'll leave it at that. Please be sure though that what you mean by "Thai prices" is extremely misguided.

You are 100% spot on. Plus it still comes back to my point...if people don't like it here...they can leave. But, wait...they never seem to leave do they? They just bitch and moan about how Thailand should be more like where they are from. Instead of accepting this is Thailand and has its own ways.

I much rather stay with the locals than deal with the arrogant, noise polluting tourists and farangs as well. Acting like idiots in Thailand when they would never act like that in their own countries. All trying to save 200 Baht. But I am rambling....

[stevenl]

At the OP: stop moaning.

Oh, and your values from back home are not the same as the values here in Thailand (in fact, the values back home have changed as well).

[pomchop]

the problem with your logic that it is an uncommon practice is you leave out the thousands of small mom and pop hotels/guest houses all over thailand who are not and never will be listed in some online booking site that uses algorithms...the more expensive larger hotels yes might be interested in rate management and sophisticated computer models but the large expensive hotels are NOT the dominant number of room inventory.....what percent of the total room inventory in thailand is listed on agoda? I would guess a relatively small number.

That may have been so back in the nineties, but now almost every hotel is bookable via the Internet, because hardly any hotel can afford not to be online. The only exception I can think of are small private guest houses who operate on the fringe of the market, but they don't provide a significant number of inventory.

Online booking systems aren't limited to big hotels. Actually, the effort and investment to go online is quite low, as the technology is handled by specialised Internet agents, so the Internet has ultimately levelled the playing field for the service providers. I would even go as far as saying that the rennaissance of small-scale "boutique hotels", which began in the late ninties / early 2000s, is due to the advent of B2C online reservation systems.

Cheers, CMX

Yes i was in the hotel business for many years and understand that there are more online sellers now...BUT..i still don't buy it that an agoda has very much of the small thai owned and operated guest houses and hotels in their inventory...and i hardly think that their amount of inventory is insignificant.... So again the question: what percent of the total thailand hotel room inventory is listed on agoda or even avaiable to book online? I'd venture to say less than 40%...There are a LOT of little hotels in thailand that don't even have a website much less an online booking agreement....i could be wrong and would welcome some stats as i can't seem to even find out the total number of rooms in thailand.

[chiangmaiexpat]

i still don't buy it that an agoda has very much of the small thai owned and operated guest houses and hotels in their inventory...

You are right, perhaps not on Agoda, because Agoda is a large international site, but there are also Thai-based sites with a Thailand focus and they do carry hotels that the bigger sites don't represent.

I did not work with the tourism sector for a number of years, so I have no up-to-date statistics on this, but you can prove this to yourself simply by entering the name of any small hotel you come across into a regular search engine. Chances are they are represented online, often by multiple agents. You'll be surprised!

As mentioned, this may not apply to really small guest-houses, i.e. the type of place that doesn't even have a PC. But then again, these have always operated without agents, only by scooping up walk-ins at random. My guess is that they have less than 10% of the domestic market, probably even less of the international market.

Cheers, CMX

[chiangmaiexpat]

...if people don't like it here...they can leave.

Oh my! The wisdom in these words is overwhelming!

Are you saying the same to the immigrants at home? Don't like it here? Go back to your country! Well, that solves it then, doesn't it?

Oh, and your values from back home are not the same as the values here in Thailand (in fact, the values back home have changed as well).

And yet another priceless insight!

Guess what, I noticed that before. It became abundantly clear almost as soon as I set foot in this fair country 20 years ago. But here is a hint: I am no moral relativist (in a philosophical sense). In fact, I could argue that many of Thailand's social problems have their roots in an inadequate value system. But that discussion would far, far away from this thread's topic...

Cheers, CMX

Edited February 27, 2012 by chiangmaiexpat