Why So Cynical?

[invogue]

Whilst I really like Thaivisa and enjoy reading the various threads and discussions, there is no doubt there is an overwhelming amount of cynicism coming from members. The advice offered is sometimes just plain silly and Thaivisa could in no way be described as a supporting community.

Can anyone offer any insight into what that’s about? Is it an effect of your living experience in Thailand/Thai culture?

Edited February 24, 2012 by metisdead
Reset to default forum font to make it easier to read.

[Berkshire]

Can you be more specific? Examples would be good....

[pattayadingo]

Do you believe all you are told?

Do politicians tell you the truth?

Global warming is here / is not here / coming.

Thailand will stop the floods this year.

There are no terrorists in Thailand.

The list goes on and on and on through everyone's lifetime. And you ask why people are cynical?

If you are referring to Thailand, then look at life here and not be cynical about most of what we are told.

[colinscarr]

I have to agree with the OP here, Thaivisa (news and general forums at least) create huge amounts of cynical comments.

Yes, I admit that corruption is endemic in the country and holds it back in vital areas like education and infrastructure development among others.

But how many of the negative posters have stopped to take a long hard look at their own birth countries? As a Brit, I reckon the major difference between the UK and Thailand is the great subtlety regarding corruption in the UK. Just because it's not out in the open like it is in Thailand, don't kid yourselves that Western countries are shining examples of democracy and good governance; they are not.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is equally true all over the world.

Now, I have a problem, my post also sounds a tad negative, but at least I aimed at a different target from the usual poor bl**dy Thais.

Edited for spelling

Edited February 24, 2012 by colinscarr

[Banzai99]

The way I see it, in this age of information, people who come to live in Thailand should know what problems they can encounter, they should know they can't own land, know they have to obey Thailands visa laws, know that when they come here they are very restricted in the employment stakes. ( though many work illegally when they could work legally in their own countries and many other countries in the world, but still they stay in Thailand and complain about the lack of employment opportunities, it's unbelievable !! )

I don't know many financially secure Farangs in Thailand who are genuinely unhappy, but they have the choice of moving on if they don't like it, simple as that.

The cynical, bitter and twisted farangs are generally here because they have done all their money in and stay here cos they can't afford to go anywhere else and start again, trapped in a loveless marriage, living in a hot house in what used to be a ricefield surrounded by people who they can't communicate with and who eat strange smelly food, breeds cynicism perhaps ?

Bad preperation, poor planning, ridiculous financial management ? Don't blame Thailand, blame yourselves.

If I was as cynical about Thailand as many on ThaiVisa appear to be, I'd be gone in a heartbeat, then again, I do have a choice and CHOOSE not to.

Farangs make the really big leap of leaving their own countries where they have rights and privilages they can never have in Thailand, why the @#@# do they do it when all they do is sit in front of a PC all day complaining about the place they chose to come to, and can leave anytime they like !!!!!

Cynical, Bitter genuinely unhappy miserable Farangs can be found all over The Kingdom, why they still remain in their own personal nightmare if they have the choice to leave, utterly amazes me.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Banzai99

[StreetCowboy]

Its all the people who won't let me form my opinion that make me cynical, telling me what I should think, what kind of opinion I can have. I'd be quite happy if I could just be my usual sardonic, cynical self. Surely that's all that we all want?

I get a bit fed up with people asking so many stupid questions, as well. You're not bloody Magnus Magnusson, and you never will be. Anyway, I'm not a mastermind, so I think I'll pass on this question...

And another thing. Look at these shoes. They cost me six times what I paid for the last pair, so they'd better last more than a few months. Anyway, you can't go wrong with shoes from Nottingham, even if they were made in Vietnam

SC

Edit: turns out its a Somerset company and they were made in China. See what happens when you don't check your facts first?

Edited February 24, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[cardholder]

Its all the people who won't let me form my opinion that make me cynical, telling me what I should think, what kind of opinion I can have. I'd be quite happy if I could just be my usual sardonic, cynical self. Surely that's all that we all want?

I get a bit fed up with people asking so many stupid questions, as well. You're not bloody Magnus Magnusson, and you never will be. Anyway, I'm not a mastermind, so I think I'll pass on this question...

And another thing. Look at these shoes. They cost me six times what I paid for the last pair, so they'd better last more than a few months. Anyway, you can't go wrong with shoes from Nottingham, even if they were made in Vietnam

SC

Surely cobblers in Northampton would be better ?

[StreetCowboy]

Its all the people who won't let me form my opinion that make me cynical, telling me what I should think, what kind of opinion I can have. I'd be quite happy if I could just be my usual sardonic, cynical self. Surely that's all that we all want?

I get a bit fed up with people asking so many stupid questions, as well. You're not bloody Magnus Magnusson, and you never will be. Anyway, I'm not a mastermind, so I think I'll pass on this question...

And another thing. Look at these shoes. They cost me six times what I paid for the last pair, so they'd better last more than a few months. Anyway, you can't go wrong with shoes from Nottingham, even if they were made in Vietnam

SC

Surely cobblers in Northampton would be better ?

You're quite right, but as I found out, they're from Somerset in any case.

Read - Learn - Post is better than

Post - Learn - Edit...

SC

Edit: Just goes to show - I don't know cobblers...

Whilst we're talking cobblers, as I was following up the research on my previous post, I happened to notice that Dr Martens are made in Thailand, and that they have also resumed production in Northampton, for all the cynics that say British manufacturing is dead... and that made me pine wistfully for my ten-hole cherry reds that I wore when I was much younger than I am today. Used to take longer to lace them up than to cycle down to the paper shop, except in the winter when I would fall off my bike on the ice at the cross-roads at the foot of the hill. The joys of being up before the gritters...

Edited February 24, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[cardholder]

I have to agree with the OP here, Thaivisa (news and general forums at least) create huge amounts of cynical comments.

Yes, I admit that corruption is endemic in the country and holds it back in vital areas like education and infrastructure development among others.

But how many of the negative posters have stopped to take a long hard look at their own birth countries? As a Brit, I reckon the major difference between the UK and Thailand is the great subtlety regarding corruption in the UK. Just because it's not out in the open like it is in Thailand, don't kid yourselves that Western countries are shining examples of democracy and good governance; they are not.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is equally true all over the world.

Now, I have a problem, my post also sounds a tad negative, but at least I aimed at a different target from the usual poor bl**dy Thais.

Edited for spelling

But, can we just confirm,......... you are not - surely - suggesting that Thailand IS a bastion of democracy and good governance. How far it is behind the UK doesn't really matter as long as corruption remains an endemic part of Thailand's culture.

Just because you only give a copper 200 Baht for exceeding a (ridiculously low) speed limit, rather than put GBP 60 into the UK's public coffers, does not make it right.

The endemic corruption (that you rightly acknowledge) not only holds back the areas you describe - it prevents the country gaining any credibility in the moral fortitude stakes.

This is not a negative post, it is simply attempting to quantify some the differences in corruption between Thailand and the West.

[norrona]

whilst the general forum on here can be a bit harsh to some especially to those who ask very silly questions I find many of the other forums very useful personally...if you are easily offended by others opinions and are seeking people to agree with you rather than voice what they think then perhaps the internet and these forums are not really your bag

[StreetCowboy]

I have to agree with the OP here, Thaivisa (news and general forums at least) create huge amounts of cynical comments.

Yes, I admit that corruption is endemic in the country and holds it back in vital areas like education and infrastructure development among others.

But how many of the negative posters have stopped to take a long hard look at their own birth countries? As a Brit, I reckon the major difference between the UK and Thailand is the great subtlety regarding corruption in the UK. Just because it's not out in the open like it is in Thailand, don't kid yourselves that Western countries are shining examples of democracy and good governance; they are not.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is equally true all over the world.

Now, I have a problem, my post also sounds a tad negative, but at least I aimed at a different target from the usual poor bl**dy Thais.

Edited for spelling

But, can we just confirm,......... you are not - surely - suggesting that Thailand IS a bastion of democracy and good governance. How far it is behind the UK doesn't really matter as long as corruption remains an endemic part of Thailand's culture.

Just because you only give a copper 200 Baht for exceeding a (ridiculously low) speed limit, rather than put GBP 60 into the UK's public coffers, does not make it right.

The endemic corruption (that you rightly acknowledge) not only holds back the areas you describe - it prevents the country gaining any credibility in the moral fortitude stakes.

This is not a negative post, it is simply attempting to quantify some the differences in corruption between Thailand and the West.

In my opinion the most cynical people are those that say "It's the same everywhere, and Thailand is no more corrupt than Switzerland or wherever". But then, I'm just a naive simpleton. I find it better that way.

SC

[garrya]

I am pretty sure this will be an entertaining topic.

My opinion is, as this is the "Thaivisa", we are not going to whine about UK, USA, and any other country. Boys, this is a forum related to Thailand.

If someone whines, moans whatever, it does not mean the one can`t find positive things in the country. Should we be happy with every factor, element of our lives and surroundings?

My answer is, no.

Of course, everybody has his/her ups and downs. We all have different personality. When you say others are cynical, don`t you think they have their point of view that differs to yours? They can have a humour what you might not understand. Or they can have a bad day, I suppose so.

Do we all have to like the same food, the same clothes, same car brand?? No. So we do not have to have the same opinion when contributing to forums.

[theblether]

I'm finding myself temporarily speechless..........

[StreetCowboy]

I'm finding myself temporarily speechless..........

?

[KeyserSoze01]

A person becomes cynical when they are lied to repeated and they begin to doubt anything being said to them, questioning the validity of said information. Considering that lying is a fundamental Thai trait used to save face, is it any wonder people are cynical about anything Thai related?

[theblether]

OK.....I've recovered. That was a shock development for me, it's not often I'm speechless so thanks to the OP for presenting such an astounding question.

Why are we cynical? I refer the OP to the previous 1033 pages of content on general topics.

[theblether]

I'm finding myself temporarily speechless..........

?

Yes I know, shock development........my mind kind of went blank, the question was just too profound!! "Why are Thaivisa members cynical?".

We should develop an ceremony on Thaivisa, like the Oscars, or maybe the Brits, no we can't mention Brits, the OAP brigade will charge in again at the mere mention of the word.

Let's call it the Toscars...........I put forward this OP to be the first winner of the Toscar Profound Question of the Year Award.

[cardholder]

I'm finding myself temporarily speechless..........

?

It is a delaying tactic, designed to push up one's post-count.

Typing "?"

or repeating other people's posts has the same effect !

[theblether]

I'm finding myself temporarily speechless..........

?

It is a delaying tactic, designed to push up one's post-count.

Typing "?"

or repeating other people's posts has the same effect !

Wow, that is cynical

By the way who care's what your post count is? ( and that is a genuine question ).

[StreetCowboy]

I'm finding myself temporarily speechless..........

?

It is a delaying tactic, designed to push up one's post-count.

Typing "?"

or repeating other people's posts has the same effect !

I was tempted to write "oh, if only...";alas, the moment is lost.

I really wanted to write nothing at all, but I couldn't find the 'Spock's quizzically raised eyebrow" smiley.

SC

Edit: I really wanted to highlight the irony. Had he written nothing, then I might have concluded he was speechless....

To answer the question - I'm a little embarrassed about my post count, which reveals the fact that I am a sad no-lifer with nothing better to do than bicker here on the internet of an evening. Anyway, work tomorrow, so time for me to retire (ha - I should be so lucky!)

SC

Edited February 24, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[mstribling]

whilst the general forum on here can be a bit harsh to some especially to those who ask very silly questions I find many of the other forums very useful personally...if you are easily offended by others opinions and are seeking people to agree with you rather than voice what they think then perhaps the internet and these forums are not really your bag

You nailed it. The specific forums are very informative and worthwhile.

Most everyone comes to the general forum to wind each other up. I do. I like being a smart-ass to people. I do it with my family and they shun me.

Everyone comes to the GF to unwind, let it out, give some-take some, then back at it. Everyone here has a choice. We all choose to remain for our own reasons.

I for one, like to argue on the forum as it keeps my brain engaged (sometimes) and keeps me using English.

[cardholder]

I'm finding myself temporarily speechless..........

?

It is a delaying tactic, designed to push up one's post-count.

Typing "?"

or repeating other people's posts has the same effect !

Wow, that is cynical

By the way who care's what your post count is? ( and that is a genuine question ).

You are confusing cynicism with humour again

Dead right - post-count is irrelevant, it is quality that counts..........................................................

[StreetCowboy]

...

Dead right - post-count is irrelevant, it is quality that counts..........................................................

Oh no! Now you tell me...

SC

EDIT: Poor chap - the OP - he asks a perfectly innocent question; no doubt something that has been bothering him for some time, and certainly not a provocative and argumentative troll question intended to elicit negative or cynical responses, and we're not taking him seriously... Now he'll have to take himself doubly seriously to compensate.

Edited February 24, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[cardholder]

...

Dead right - post-count is irrelevant, it is quality that counts..........................................................

Oh no! Now you tell me...

SC

EDIT: Poor chap - the OP - he asks a perfectly innocent question; no doubt something that has been bothering him for some time, and certainly not a provocative and argumentative troll question intended to elicit negative or cynical responses, and we're not taking him seriously... Now he'll have to take himself doubly seriously to compensate.

There is no such thing as an "innocent question" on Thai Visa. At least not after some that are, shall we say, longer in the tooth have finished with it.

[theblether]

...

Dead right - post-count is irrelevant, it is quality that counts..........................................................

Oh no! Now you tell me...

SC

Right you, stick to the topic at hand!! Why are we so cynical !!

I have just got into trouble for not knowing the difference between humour and cynicism ( by the way the red card was supposed to be a humorous riposte ). You can get a real laugh on this forum, and maybe some people don't pick up on the humour??

On the other hand some of the blazing arguments we have are outstanding!!

[cardholder]

...

Dead right - post-count is irrelevant, it is quality that counts..........................................................

Oh no! Now you tell me...

SC

Right you, stick to the topic at hand!! Why are we so cynical !!

I have just got into trouble for not knowing the difference between humour and cynicism ( by the way the red card was supposed to be a humorous riposte ). You can get a real laugh on this forum, and maybe some people don't pick up on the humour??

On the other hand some of the blazing arguments we have are outstanding!!

I think we would be hard pressed to make an argument out of this one !

(Then again - you are a Scot )

Edited February 24, 2012 by cardholder

[invogue]

I’m so proud to have been given the Toscar Profound Question of the Year Award

I conclude that-

1. Some expats have become disgruntled by the amount of corruption and swindling that is outright in Thailand.

2. There are a number of bitter and twisted farangs who came to Thailand with idealistic dreams which were too far-fetched and unattainable. Hence they have become resentful and cynical about Thailand on a number of levels and now have resorted to sharing their non-rose tinted opinion on this website.

3. People ask stupid questions in this forum which might result in frustration and cynical retorts from other members

Edited February 25, 2012 by metisdead
Use the default forum font when posting, font reset.

[theblether]

I’m so proud to have been given the Toscar Profound Question of the Year Award

I conclude that-

1. Some expats have become disgruntled by the amount of corruption and swindling that is outright in Thailand.

2. There are a number of bitter and twisted farangs who came to Thailand with idealistic dreams which were too far-fetched and unattainable. Hence they have become resentful and cynical about Thailand on a number of levels and now have resorted to sharing their non-rose tinted opinion on this website.

3. People ask stupid questions in this forum which might result in frustration and cynical retorts from other members

Hold on......you haven't been awarded the Toscar yet!! You've only been nominated for a non-existent prize!! That will give you plenty of time to prepare the tearful acceptance speech though

[cardholder]

I’m so proud to have been given the Toscar Profound Question of the Year Award

I conclude that-

1. Some expats have become disgruntled by the amount of corruption and swindling that is outright in Thailand.

2. There are a number of bitter and twisted farangs who came to Thailand with idealistic dreams which were too far-fetched and unattainable. Hence they have become resentful and cynical about Thailand on a number of levels and now have resorted to sharing their non-rose tinted opinion on this website.

3. People ask stupid questions in this forum which might result in frustration and cynical retorts from other members

Very true.

I think I fit all 3 categories !

[theblether]

Hence they have become resentful and cynical about Thailand on a number of levels and now have resorted to sharing their non-rose tinted opinion on this website.

You almost caused an outbreak of bonhomie on this topic but hey, let's resort to type.

How are you qualified to make that statement? Yes there can be some seriously heavy hitting cynicism, but at the same time, even on General Topics there are many members who are happy to put forward highly constructive advice and posts.

I could name you 12 members right now ( at least and easily ) who may fight like cat and dog on some issues, but they have the ability to move seamlessly to the next subject and not carry a grudge.

May I also add, some of the people here should be listened to. ( not me though, I'm just an annoyance ).