Red Shirts Stage Anti-Coup Rally In Khao Yai

[nurofiend]

Megalomania is an antisocial disease of the ignorant, impotent, inane, inept, and incompetent. You two fill the bill nicely.

As with many of these Posts, one can readily see how important it is for coupists to diminish these numbers.

It is embarassing for them.

and rather frightening i should think !

you're always out with the personal attacks aren't you 'reasonable' man!

it's getting old.

[yoshiwara]

At least keeping the red masses agitated about a non-existent coup will keep their minds off the complete absence of any definitive class actions by the Thaksin government. A crass effort at a diversion but Thaksin doesn't exactly have the reputation of being subtle in his strategies. If not able to set off street violence (see 2009, 2010) then the threat of such will do for now.

[waza]

As for attendance, it's been noted that the post had 2 articles, one said 30,000 and another said 50,000. AFAIK The Nation has never updated their 10,000 people on the eve of the event. Posters can complain about it all they want, but it's interesting that The Nation is (so far) doing exactly as CalgaryII said they would.

Clearly there were a lot of people. 10,000 is not the right number, obviously.

For those who understand Thai well, there is a lot of footage from the stage and reporting, too. (reporter in this video around 14 minutes, for example.

Was it 10,000 or 30,000 or 50,000? Take your pick according to your preference. But hey, why not go with Calgaryll's reported 500,000 (+/- 200,000)?

point is, ye would have just gone along with the 10,000 like a lot of people... at least if calgaryll's wrong (which i believe he's at least being generous or maybe it seemed like more when at it)...but the point is he's not writing for a mass produced newspaper is he??

they're putting out this BS for many people to read.

it's propaganda, and unusually it's propaganda attempting to reduce fear rather than spread it

personally looking at the clip tiansford posted, it looks like it easily goes past the 100,000 mark.

He is lying like he does often, that why he has no credability.

The reality is you can put lipstick on a greedy pig, but it will still be Thaskin. He is a convicted criminal whos a fugitive from justice. But he is back in proxy and will return through a legislated pardon or an agreed one. Or through mass violence, which he has already displayed he is well capable of through his factions of Red shirts, Red guards and black shirts et al.

But arguing and defending the red shirts, yellow shirts, dems. PTP and others is akin to discussions of your favourite football team and have about the same effect. Personally I find them tedious and boring, however they occur in topics I find of intense personal interest because it concerns our future in Thailand.

The years of unrest has had a dramatic effect on Thai people and society, life is increasingly becoming more kaotic. Crime, violence, cons and ilegal acts are on the rise because law enforcements has been shown to be ineffectual or non-existent. The fabric of Thai society is ripping as social cohesion is fracture along political and community lines. Once the kick off whistle blows, or funeral horn blows, all hell will break loose, where it will end is anyones guess, but I see the journey as a dark and dangerous one.

Edited March 2, 2012 by waza

[Reasonableman]

If the cap fits...

Megalomania is an antisocial disease of the ignorant, impotent, inane, inept, and incompetent. You two fill the bill nicely.

As with many of these Posts, one can readily see how important it is for coupists to diminish these numbers.

It is embarassing for them.

and rather frightening i should think !

you're always out with the personal attacks aren't you 'reasonable' man!

it's getting old.

[hyperdimension]

if Thaksin had, let's say a stroke and fell over stone cold tomorrow in Dubai, would the red shirts disappear?

That is a good question. The Shinawatra clan will still own plenty of vested interests, so the Red Shirts will remain useful to them for the continued protection and expansion of those interests. Hopefully Thaksin's heir won't be a megalomaniac.

[hyperdimension]

I suggest that you start thinking of why the Thai electorate prefer PTP to the Democrats.

Elections can be won using huge promises. The people have nothing to lose when voting, so they would choose the option that offers the most in total in the hope that at least some of them will be delivered. Not everyone bases their voting decisions on political ideologies such as anti-coupism.

I will repeat what I wrote in another thread:

When it comes down to it, people would vote for whatever option makes them personally richer, regardless of the consequences to the country. For example, a promise of 1M baht to every household would definitely win an election - Thailand's central bank simply would need to print more money for the government to borrow. How it would be paid back is anyone's guess, but at least the election will be won and people will think that they are richer. (Just don't teach them about concepts like inflation and purchasing power).

[hyperdimension]

I know people on this fourm go on about good coup and want another but is that not un democratic?

Would you say that the recently elected government operates in a democratic way?

[hyperdimension]

Nitirat proposals recognize this fact, and is why the coupists are so opposed to them.

Pheu Thai, whom the Red Shirts elected to govern, are opposed to them too.

[CalgaryII]

I suggest that you start thinking of why the Thai electorate prefer PTP to the Democrats.

Elections can be won using huge promises. The people have nothing to lose when voting, so they would choose the option that offers the most in total in the hope that at least some of them will be delivered. Not everyone bases their voting decisions on political ideologies such as anti-coupism.

I will repeat what I wrote in another thread:

When it comes down to it, people would vote for whatever option makes them personally richer, regardless of the consequences to the country. For example, a promise of 1M baht to every household would definitely win an election - Thailand's central bank simply would need to print more money for the government to borrow. How it would be paid back is anyone's guess, but at least the election will be won and people will think that they are richer. (Just don't teach them about concepts like inflation and purchasing power).

Voters vote in their self-interest.

Nothing new there.

The problem in Thailand, is that one side of the political divide think they are the only ones who have the knowledge to vote in their own self-interest, while the other side dont know what their self-interest is, other than by association.

That kind of arrogance has them on the electoral sidelines, where they will be in the foreseeable future.

Until one side of the political divide respectfully attributes valid and equal political space to their opposites, they will perpetually be on the outside, looking in.

[CalgaryII]

I know people on this fourm go on about good coup and want another but is that not un democratic?

Would you say that the recently elected government operates in a democratic way?

YES!

Some people seem to have difficulty with the prerogatives of an electoral majority.

An electoral majority will act according to it, without letting a minority Opposition subvert them.

That is Democracy, evidenced by that electoral majority submitting itself to the electorate in 3+ years, for the voters to render their verdict on what was accomplished, what was not accomplished and how it was done.

Not complicated

Edited March 2, 2012 by CalgaryII

[CalgaryII]

Nitirat proposals recognize this fact, and is why the coupists are so opposed to them.

Pheu Thai, whom the Red Shirts elected to govern, are opposed to them too.

Some might be.

But the majority are not, or they would suffer the wrath of the UDD/Red Shirts.

The Govt. is playing it safe and smart however.

They await for Nitirat proposals to be given greater public vetting, and when they gain traction, acting accordingly.

They are relying on the Nitirat people to promote and sell their proposals, not Ms. Y. and company.

[whybother]

Nitirat proposals recognize this fact, and is why the coupists are so opposed to them.

Pheu Thai, whom the Red Shirts elected to govern, are opposed to them too.

Some might be.

But the majority are not, or they would suffer the wrath of the UDD/Red Shirts.

The Govt. is playing it safe and smart however.

They await for Nitirat proposals to be given greater public vetting, and when they gain traction, acting accordingly.

They are relying on the Nitirat people to promote and sell their proposals, not Ms. Y. and company.

The sort of thing you complain about when individual groups oppose something the government is doing. Then it's the all encompassing "Opposition".

[CalgaryII]

Nisa, #237

Again we are at the same crossroads. It was a concert (free)

There was some singing as there is at all these events. The previous time at bonanza in Khoa Yai, it was in fact a concert.

This time it was a political gathering for purposes stated before.

I was there, you weren't.

End of story

Are you for real? It was advertised as a concert, was a concert and was reported as a concert. In fact, it was advertised as a free concert. There wasn't just singing, there were professional bands providing performances with speakers in between. No different than other political, fund raising or benefit type concerts from The Concert for Bangladesh to Live Aid.

How in the world can anybody take you serious when you are being so disingenuous?

Now ... End of story

Wrong about all of that, and misleading.

I not only attended, but also was informed weeks in advance of this gatherings planning and purposes.

It had everything to do with Political objectives, and nothing to do with concerts.

Trying to re-focus this as being merely a concert, is a put-down of this political gathering and its' people. Trying to deprive them, again, of political awareness and space. Why the Opposition persists in this contemptuousness is beyond me. It doesn't get them anywhere, other than on the political sidelines.

[CalgaryII]

Even at the most inflated estimates the levels are not so impressive, nor of much meaniung,

other than it was a relatively successful group indoctrination session,

held within a music concert to draw more bodies and swell the 'apparent numbers'.

• The levels were hugely impressive. Politicians of all stripes took notice, and will govern themselves accordingly
  
• This gathering had immense meaning. It sent a clear message to Oppositional coupists to 'think again', and to any PTP elements who were giving some thought to their own aggrandizement and not fully appreciating "which side their bread is buttered on"
  
• To reference it as a group indoctrination session could be true, in the sense that all political gatherings can be described as such. I know in this instance, the comment is intended to be degrading and to dismiss these people as being a-political, but the opposition has seen where that gets them.
  
• Using the 'music concert' descriptor is a pure example of the Opposition trying to deprive these people of political space. Suggesting they are dummies only attracted by mindless music motivation. But who is in Government, and who is on the political sidelines?.....Who are the dummies?
  

Edited March 2, 2012 by CalgaryII

[CalgaryII]

Why all the shouting to "Stop the coup?"

Are they referring to a type of car?

I certainly don't see anythying military underway except for Thaksin's new command bunker controlled by Thaksin's family and friends in various uniforms.

It's the same old Thaksin formula of mix and stir.

Shining a bright light on coupists constantly, illuminates their behind-the-scenes machinations.

They don't like it, and I understand why.

[CalgaryII]

Please note ! the yellow shirts did not need to pay each other, they are mostly rich well off businessmen and have already got plenty of money and power over the masses. However its worth noting , that they gave the army a massive increase in budget as a reward for handing them government...........and guess what , it was'nt even their own bloody money. It is also worth noting that when the redshirts won the elections with a massive majority, one of the first things they did was to reduce this big army "back hander" = Money back to the people !

In an old office most of the staff was pro Yellow. They made salaries in the range of 20 - 40k/m. They were not rich not held any power over others.

Your slander of them is unjust and unwarranted.

Wow.

And what do you call the contemptuousnes, denigrating, besmirching, disparaging of the UDD/Red Shirts.

You don't need to look any further than this thread to see them inpugning non-political motives by trying to mislead people about the concert thing.

[whybother]

Shining a bright light on coupists constantly, illuminates their behind-the-scenes machinations.

They don't like it, and I understand why.

Wearing tin-foil hats must be hot in Thailand.

[scorecard]

I know people on this fourm go on about good coup and want another but is that not un democratic?

Would you say that the recently elected government operates in a democratic way?

YES!

Some people seem to have difficulty with the prerogatives of an electoral majority.

An electoral majority will act according to it, without letting a minority Opposition subvert them.

That is Democracy, evidenced by that electoral majority submitting itself to the electorate in 3+ years, for the voters to render their verdict on what was accomplished, what was not accomplished and how it was done.

Not complicated

'Elected' well there's the first point that could be well argued in your rubbish.

[CalgaryII]

At least keeping the red masses agitated about a non-existent coup will keep their minds off the complete absence of any definitive class actions by the Thaksin government. A crass effort at a diversion but Thaksin doesn't exactly have the reputation of being subtle in his strategies. If not able to set off street violence (see 2009, 2010) then the threat of such will do for now.

Thaksin hater segueing.

[hyperdimension]

I suggest that you start thinking of why the Thai electorate prefer PTP to the Democrats.

Elections can be won using huge promises. The people have nothing to lose when voting, so they would choose the option that offers the most in total in the hope that at least some of them will be delivered. Not everyone bases their voting decisions on political ideologies such as anti-coupism.

I will repeat what I wrote in another thread:

When it comes down to it, people would vote for whatever option makes them personally richer, regardless of the consequences to the country. For example, a promise of 1M baht to every household would definitely win an election - Thailand's central bank simply would need to print more money for the government to borrow. How it would be paid back is anyone's guess, but at least the election will be won and people will think that they are richer. (Just don't teach them about concepts like inflation and purchasing power).

Voters vote in their self-interest.

... as opposed to the interests of the country as a whole. You might be obsessed with anti-coupism (and not enough on other important factors like financial health), but I would say that more votes were based on self-interest (or selfishness) than on political ideologies. I'm not saying whether this is good or bad or wrong or right, as people are naturally going to look after themselves and their loved ones. Though, it's a problem when people in power, who are tasked to look after the country and its people, work largely for their own selfish interests.

Making huge election promises wins elections but it can significantly increase the country's debt if the promises are actually implemented. The Democrat party, particularly people like Abhisit and Korn, would have clearly known that it would have been irresponsible of them to engage in a bidding war of increasingly big promises with Pheu Thai during election campaigning, even though it would have captured a greater proportion of votes for them from the self-interested (or selfish) population; they would know that honoring the final versions of their pledges could put the country into financial trouble. Greece is an obvious current example of a country with far too much debt.

Edited March 2, 2012 by hyperdimension

[yoshiwara]

At least keeping the red masses agitated about a non-existent coup will keep their minds off the complete absence of any definitive class actions by the Thaksin government. A crass effort at a diversion but Thaksin doesn't exactly have the reputation of being subtle in his strategies. If not able to set off street violence (see 2009, 2010) then the threat of such will do for now.

Thaksin hater segueing.

The dynamic for organising the stage army has an additional purpose to that of keeping the supporters busy with the coup nonsense. Never forget that each and every political campaign by the reds/PTP/Cabinet members is prioritised against the push to bring Thaksin back. Those who ask why this particular red pop show and why now should note that it is intended as background noise to support Thaksin's efforts to change the constitution in order to slip back via a suitable loophole. A show of force (with musical backdrop) is a slightly veiled threat of violence if they don't get their way and the red villages ditto. All the rant about the coup is a disguised shout against the establishment to stop blocking Thaksin. Meanwhile Yingluck smiles brightly and of course denies knowing anything. A good puppet so far. Actually most can live with Yingluck and even her Cabinet clowns. But Always bet on Thaksin pushing over the apple cart. A spoiled brat to the end.

[phiphidon]

snip

"The Democrat party, particularly people like Abhisit and Korn, would have clearly known that it would have been irresponsible of them to engage in a bidding war of increasingly big promises with Pheu Thai during election campaigning, even though it would have captured a greater proportion of votes for them from the self-interested (or selfish) population; they would know that honoring the final versions of their pledges could put the country into financial trouble"

Really? How about their last incredibly long cabinet meeting approving expenditure of 4.5 billion dollars or have you conveniently forgot about that?

THE last cabinet meeting of Abhisit Vejjajiva’s administration on May 3rd was also its longest. Ministers arrived at 8am and burned the midnight oil. And rather as Gladstone, the grand old man of 19th-century British politics, dubbed his own last cabinet meeting in March 1894 “the blubbering cabinet” (because ministers wept at his departure), so Mr Abhisit’s last might be called “the spendthrift cabinet”. Ministers approved 102 spending proposals, totalling billions of dollars. Plainly, an election is in the offing.

The Democrat Party’s main appeal lies in its successful stewardship of the economy since the economic crisis of 2008-09, which Thailand survived remarkably well. But the party also hopes to eat into Mr Thaksin’s support by copying the populist economic policies that enabled him to build it up in the first place. So there has been an expansion of a social-security scheme to cover millions of workers in the informal economy; low-interest loans for taxi-drivers; free electricity for some households; cash transfers to farmers; and more money for the elderly.

http://www.economist.com/node/18652011

Of course he also spent 170 billion baht on the Defence budget, to no avail it seems - looks like the rank and file voted for the "wrong" people despite Prayuths exhortations to the contrary.

[CalgaryII]

hyperdimension, #290^

The Democrat party, particularly people like Abhisit and Korn, would have clearly known that it would have been irresponsible of them to engage in a bidding war of increasingly big promises with Pheu Thai during election campaigning, even though it would have captured a greater proportion of votes for them from the self-interested (or selfish) population

An interesting spin on why Abhi. and Co. lost the election.

With his R'song baggage and elitist aloofness, he could have promised the moon, and not be elected.

To put a deceptive spin to it is a reach.

He is the devil personified to the UDD/Red Shirt massive national political movement. That is quite a high electoral mountain to climb, never mind anything else.

I wonder if in his hearts of hearts, he ever wishes he would never have teamed up with those who can only gain power forcefully, as opposed to electorally.

[TAWP]

Please note ! the yellow shirts did not need to pay each other, they are mostly rich well off businessmen and have already got plenty of money and power over the masses. However its worth noting , that they gave the army a massive increase in budget as a reward for handing them government...........and guess what , it was'nt even their own bloody money. It is also worth noting that when the redshirts won the elections with a massive majority, one of the first things they did was to reduce this big army "back hander" = Money back to the people !

In an old office most of the staff was pro Yellow. They made salaries in the range of 20 - 40k/m. They were not rich not held any power over others.

Your slander of them is unjust and unwarranted.

Wow.

And what do you call the contemptuousnes, denigrating, besmirching, disparaging of the UDD/Red Shirts.

You don't need to look any further than this thread to see them inpugning non-political motives by trying to mislead people about the concert thing.

So the defense is 'mommy, they said mean things too', ok, fine.

But that doesn't make the statement that yellows are mostly rich any true, nor did the 'redshirts won the elections with a massive majority'[sic].

[rubl]

The problem is that with people knowing they'll be lied to be politicians, somehow to be really lied to by a nice looking and smiling woman is much more acceptable than being somewhat lied to by a male.

I know, I've got lots of experience in this.

From your local 'big and handsome' Dutch uncle

Edited March 2, 2012 by rubl

[whybother]

From your local 'big and handsome' Dutch uncle

A relative of Calgary?? ... he's Dutch.

[hyperdimension]

snip

"The Democrat party, particularly people like Abhisit and Korn, would have clearly known that it would have been irresponsible of them to engage in a bidding war of increasingly big promises with Pheu Thai during election campaigning, even though it would have captured a greater proportion of votes for them from the self-interested (or selfish) population; they would know that honoring the final versions of their pledges could put the country into financial trouble"

Really? How about their last incredibly long cabinet meeting approving expenditure of 4.5 billion dollars or have you conveniently forgot about that?

Did you miss this news article?: On A Dangerous Path To Financial Uncertainty: Thai Opinion EDITORIAL - February 25

[phiphidon]

snip

"The Democrat party, particularly people like Abhisit and Korn, would have clearly known that it would have been irresponsible of them to engage in a bidding war of increasingly big promises with Pheu Thai during election campaigning, even though it would have captured a greater proportion of votes for them from the self-interested (or selfish) population; they would know that honoring the final versions of their pledges could put the country into financial trouble"

Really? How about their last incredibly long cabinet meeting approving expenditure of 4.5 billion dollars or have you conveniently forgot about that?

Did you miss this news article?: On A Dangerous Path To Financial Uncertainty: Thai Opinion EDITORIAL - February 25

No, I didn't. I also read these;

Thai economy gets a pat on the back from IMF

http://www.thaivisa....-back-from-imf/

Despite floods, Thailand looks ready to rock

http://community.nas...+by+Category%29

Thailand Proving Best After China Among Global Emerging Markets (Business Week and Bloomberg)

http://news.business...TPLA0VVI727DDUA

Korn and Abhisit were predicting public debt 58 - 59% of GDP by 2012 dropping to 50% by 2016 after their borrowing of 1-43 Trillion Baht under the “Investing from Strength to Strength 2012 Project”

http://thailand.prd....404&type=inside.

I note that The Nation didn’t throw it’s toys out of the pram then. They do have previous about being alarmist about the economy when the “wrong people” are in power though, see;

Stoking fear about Thailand’s debt

http://asiancorrespo...-thailand-debt/

[rubl]

Did you miss this news article?: On A Dangerous Path To Financial Uncertainty: Thai Opinion EDITORIAL - February 25

No, I didn't. I also read these;

Thai economy gets a pat on the back from IMF

http://www.thaivisa....-back-from-imf/

Despite floods, Thailand looks ready to rock

http://community.nas...+by+Category%29

Thailand Proving Best After China Among Global Emerging Markets (Business Week and Bloomberg)

http://news.business...TPLA0VVI727DDUA

Korn and Abhisit were predicting public debt 58 - 59% of GDP by 2012 dropping to 50% by 2016 after their borrowing of 1-43 Trillion Baht under the “Investing from Strength to Strength 2012 Project”

http://thailand.prd....404&type=inside.

I note that The Nation didn’t throw it’s toys out of the pram then. They do have previous about being alarmist about the economy when the “wrong people” are in power though, see;

Stoking fear about Thailand’s debt

http://asiancorrespo...-thailand-debt/

You guys are getting a bit off topic. The topic is the 'anti-coup rally at Bonanza, Khao Yai'.

The economical situation and peoples predictions are another, but interesting subject. You can get different and conflicting answers depending on who you ask. An answer today may also be significantly different from an answer given a year ago and one to be expected next year. Hindsight and a crystal ball make an interesting combination.

The link on 'pat on back from IMF' has 'but warned that the prosperity could be mired by downside risks, which include the euro-zone crisis and fiscal costs of several projects.'

The NASDAQ article has a lot of 'could', 'may', 'is possible'

The businessweek article has '“Until these floods, people had no idea how important Thailand is in the global marketplace,” says Thiraphong Chansiri, 45, president of Thai Union Frozen Products Pcl.' which is very interesting to read.

The article on Korn & Abhisit is from September 2009 and 'obviously' didn't take into consideration the 2010 riots, nor the 2011 floods.

As for public debt ratios

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1051447

http://www.nationmul...r-30173275.html

Anyway the free concert was nice people tell me, only a pity lots of 'important people' wanted to have their five minutes of fame in between songs

Edited March 3, 2012 by rubl

[phiphidon]

Did you miss this news article?: On A Dangerous Path To Financial Uncertainty: Thai Opinion EDITORIAL - February 25

No, I didn't. I also read these;

Thai economy gets a pat on the back from IMF

http://www.thaivisa....-back-from-imf/

Despite floods, Thailand looks ready to rock

http://community.nas...+by+Category%29

Thailand Proving Best After China Among Global Emerging Markets (Business Week and Bloomberg)

http://news.business...TPLA0VVI727DDUA

Korn and Abhisit were predicting public debt 58 - 59% of GDP by 2012 dropping to 50% by 2016 after their borrowing of 1-43 Trillion Baht under the “Investing from Strength to Strength 2012 Project”

http://thailand.prd....404&type=inside.

I note that The Nation didn’t throw it’s toys out of the pram then. They do have previous about being alarmist about the economy when the “wrong people” are in power though, see;

Stoking fear about Thailand’s debt

http://asiancorrespo...-thailand-debt/

You guys are getting a bit off topic. The topic is the 'anti-coup rally at Bonanza, Khao Yai'.

The economical situation and peoples predictions are another, but interesting subject. You can get different and conflicting answers depending on who you ask. An answer today may also be significantly different from an answer given a year ago and one to be expected next year. Hindsight and a crystal ball make an interesting combination.

The link on 'pat on back from IMF' has 'but warned that the prosperity could be mired by downside risks, which include the euro-zone crisis and fiscal costs of several projects.'

The NASDAQ article has a lot of 'could', 'may', 'is possible'

The businessweek article has '“Until these floods, people had no idea how important Thailand is in the global marketplace,” says Thiraphong Chansiri, 45, president of Thai Union Frozen Products Pcl.' which is very interesting to read.

The article on Korn & Abhisit is from September 2009 and 'obviously' didn't take into consideration the 2010 riots, nor the 2011 floods.

As for public debt ratios

http://www.thailando...?DataID=1051447

http://www.nationmul...r-30173275.html

Anyway the free concert was nice people tell me, only a pity lots of 'important people' wanted to have their five minutes of fame in between songs

At least I take my information from more than one source. What free concert are you on about? Oh I see the red shirt rally. Ha Ha .