Fish And Shrimp Farm

[pigeonjake]

hi,thanks for your reply,

our pond is mainly for the run of from the pig cleaning, the water goes a nice light green but my fish talapia thrive and grow very well,

so im going to buy a few prawns/ shrips and give them a try, not much to loose if it dosnt work, but would be good for the family as they really like them, wouldt be much to get a trap and catch them, infact grandpa is great at making things, the old thai skills, im sure at the age of 79 he,ll still be able to make something,lol, great old bloke,

im in scotland at the moment so my wife and her mum are looking after our pigs/chickens and fish, thats without the fruit trees they have to water and to top it all weve got a baby coming in sept,lol,

but thanks to all again a very very good read

jake

[David48]

Hi David,The pond I put them in is about 120 metres long and has a bit of vegetation in each end so I dumped half each end and wished them well.

Of course there are 2500x 300g Tilapia to keep them company.The prawn are minute and the extension officer said 50% mortality is normal plus they are so small I dont think the blue mesh would retain them.

I visited a freshwater prawn farm near Kalasin a few years ago when I was contemplating the industry,this particular farm put in 1 million small prawns into a holding pond and let them go through a few moults then just netted what he needed to restock ponds.

At 150 baht for each bag of 1100 its not going to break the bank.

I had problem seeing them even with my reading glasses so I dont know how they count out the 1100.

If I get any survivors and they grow OK I may dedicate a pond to them next year.( when you get to my ripe old age it helps to have long term goals)

Hi ozzydom ... thanks for the direct reply.

When I get back to Thailand for an extended period I'll make a small video and explanation on how the Farm separates the Prawns initially to increase the survival.

Sort of hard to pressed MissFarmGirl all the time because she works 6 days a week at a Company and then helps out at the Farm on her day off, or in the Morning/Afternoon.

What did make me smile in your posting was ... when you get to my ripe old age it helps to have long term goals ...

[ozzydom]

Hi David,when you get to seventy three sex. drugs and rock and roll are but a distant memory ,(well two out of the three anyway)so I just keep moving the goalposts further back ,besides I cant stop yet cos they just gave me another 5 years on my drivers licence and I,d hate to see my fees wasted.

[David48]

Hi David,when you get to seventy three sex. drugs and rock and roll are but a distant memory ,(well two out of the three anyway)so I just keep moving the goalposts further back ,besides I cant stop yet cos they just gave me another 5 years on my drivers licence and I,d hate to see my fees wasted.

Aggh Laddie ... you are just a wee pup!

Dad 'went up' when he was at work when he was 80.

My Uncle has just gone into a Nursing Home and he is 91.

... and his Sister is 93 and still lives at home!

5 years planning ahead ... such short term thinking ...

[David48]

To those who have knowledge of soil profiles ... this question?

Are Acid Sulphate Soils a problem in Thailand?

And yes ... they are called ASS for short!

Specifically near the Gulf of Thailand (Bangkok).

For those who are curious what Acid Sulphate Soils are, read here.

The reason that I ask is the Father of MissFarmGirl, stocks at a lower rate and aerates the water more often then Mother, but he is regularly (just recently) getting some smaller fish kills.

The major difference between the ponds he farms and the equal sized one that Mother does is that Father had the bulldozer out after the last pond emptying and reshaped the walls.

Yep I know that GIYF (Google is your Friend) and have found this article on the effect of "Amelioration and Management of Shrimp Ponds in Acid Sulfate Soils: Key Researchable Issues".

Any thoughts?

[ozzydom]

Yes David ,acid sulphate soils are a problem,particularly in the area they farm in.

A lot of the sulphate comes from naturally occurring jarasite in the soil of the coastal plains.

There have been projects sponsored by the King into the problem over the years.

I believe the addition of lime and frequent water changes can help.But the water changes should be with fresh rainwater and not water from runoff off surrounding areas.

Higher pond walls and heavy planting of Veviter Grass ( Ya Fat ) to prevent erosion also are reputed to help.

Dozing the pond bottom would have probably unearthed sulphate soils which would effect the water quality until it is leeched out,this may explain the fish kills in a fresh pond as opposed to an older pond.

What is the source of their water for refilling and topping up ponds David ?

I think they are farming White prawns (a guess) which like a slightly saline water.

Tilapia can handle a wide range of salinity but carp can be a bit iffy about it.

[David48]

Yes David ,acid sulphate soils are a problem,particularly in the area they farm in.

<snip>

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

... and I'm not sure.

ozzydom ... thanks for the reply.

So they do employ the higher wall approach so the depth of the pond remains about 5 1/5 foot from the top of the wall. 5' of water depth and only about 4' dug below the natural ground level.

Water comes from the Klong which is a tributary from one of the big ones which pass the Suvarnabhumi Airport.

That 'Veviter Grass' grass looks a good option ... but have to be careful how to suggest as we well know ... Farang ... what he know!

The 'I don't know' is about the Fish species.

I know that mother runs mainly Tilapia with some Big head Carp ... but about Father ... he keeps a bit more to himself ... (I am playing hid the sausage with his daughter after all) so a bit less forthcoming.

Speaking about the water ... quite bizarre. When Thailand was in Flood last year, I was really worried about the Farm being flooded. Father was also worried as he emptied one of the ponds a little prematurely in case he got flooded and lost the Harvest.

Quite the opposite happened. Because the Government was so strongly guarding Suvarnabhumi Airport with water flow through the surrounding Klongs ... the water level actually dropped to a point where their boat, the main transport was grounded with the water level being to low!

My apologies in advance if the above (comment) offends ...

[David006]

Just a small true story for you budding Prawn/Shrimp Farmers.

Remember the English is very pigeon ... but I am sure her English is better then my Thai!

MissFarmGirl writes …

And I have story about the man with Shrimp Farm.

Yesterday we have rain all the day.

The man he had Shrimp Farm mix with Tilapia same My Parents Farm.

If you look the photos I sent to you about Nets you will see the photo about lamp for make light for Shrimp interest.

One lamp it not work the man he have boat like in my farm. he paddle (not sure this word) for fix the lamp but he still turn on electric

So when he touch the lamp ..remember? we have rain all day ..So lamp it wet from rain ..he have to electric shock and he fall in the pond.

When another man come it too late ...he can not help him.

When my father he have to fix the lamp he must have someone for help him.

We will turn off light and then wait for he say "Yes" we will turn on light...can not turn on when fix in same time.

Sad with his Family because he is friendly man..

And We think (Thai believe) If who die when Buddha Day it mean they are good person or it mean it is time for them...

and yesterday is Saturday 5/Month 5/Year 55 ...

Thai believe if the when Saturday number 5 it mean very Strong Day for Thai...

Most Thai people like to do many think on Saturday 5 (Religious beliefs)

I'm actually a qualified electrician but haven't picked a tool (for someone else) for over 20 years.

It still makes me shudder what passes for electrics here.

res

Hey mate great thread ..really interesting...never knew that so many of the prawns in the markets were fresh water! Can't say I can ever tell anyways..Tamarind prawns YUM!

My sis in Switzerland says she won't touch Thai prawns because of some documentary (BBC?) which intimated that many farms raised prawns in polluted environments...sounds like scare mongering to me...comments anybody?

Me I eat most anything...as one poster said on another thread ..you could bloody starve otherwise...

RE the horrific electrics on the farm...if you have not already, could you you not pick up your tools when next in Thailand and fix a car battery or ...to some LED lighting instead?? Your lady looks and sounds smart enough to do it for you even? Or atleast fit a Safety Cut?

goodonya mate......

[David48]

Just a small true story for you budding Prawn/Shrimp Farmers.

<snip>

Hey mate great thread ..really interesting...never knew that so many of the prawns in the markets were fresh water! Can't say I can ever tell anyways..Tamarind prawns YUM!

My sis in Switzerland says she won't touch Thai prawns because of some documentary (BBC?) which intimated that many farms raised prawns in polluted environments...sounds like scare mongering to me...comments anybody?

Me I eat most anything...as one poster said on another thread ..you could bloody starve otherwise...

RE the horrific electrics on the farm...if you have not already, could you you not pick up your tools when next in Thailand and fix a car battery or ...to some LED lighting instead?? Your lady looks and sounds smart enough to do it for you even? Or atleast fit a Safety Cut?

goodonya mate......

Hi there David006, thanks for dropping by.

Where the Farm is located between the Airport and the Gulf of Thailand, the water is brackish, but as a % of what salt water is ... I don't know.

As for the Prawns ... well, they are bottom feeders but, put in perspective ... the Thais eat them, I eat them ... everyone is happy. Polluted environment? ... not worse then anywhere else.

As long as the Klong hasn’t been contaminated with industrial pollutants then most things are fine.

Heavy Metals aside, if there was contamination, the Fish and Prawns will die as juveniles, the ponds would be emptied, ponds flushed and the process starts again ... problem solved.

With regards to the Electrics ... humm, have you every tried to tell a Thai what to do and how to do it ... and they listened and did it?

All your thoughts are great ideas and, when the opportunity presents itself, I will try and modify practices.

But not till I have some street cred ... it's only been 18 months ... so not rushing anything.

Plus her old man has the smarts about him with the electrics ... but will try with a few ideas and see if I can get them accepted.

[ozzydom]

David, Its a bit of a "cat chasing its tail"scenario.

That area is one of the known acid sulphate areas in Los.

I imagine that the the water in the klong is effected by runoff from freshly disturbed soil (farming and building activities) and acid sulphate in content , so water recruitment from such a source just adds to the problem.

Would be interested in the PH of their ponds water, usually ponds in acid sulphare areas are very low PH ,can be as low as 3.

[David006]

yup ..I guess if one really gets down to it is probably about how much of said pollutants or even anti bacterial,hormones etc .,ends up in the meat......?

I guess judging by some well developed young ladies, one might suppose the hormones in a big mac survive processing..........lol

[David48]

David, Its a bit of a "cat chasing its tail"scenario.

That area is one of the known acid sulphate areas in Los.

I imagine that the water in the klong is effected by runoff from freshly disturbed soil (farming and building activities) and acid sulphate in content , so water recruitment from such a source just adds to the problem.

Would be interested in the PH of their ponds water, usually ponds in acid sulphate areas are very low PH ,can be as low as 3.

Agreed ozzydom and, as always, thanks for taking the time to reply... but as you know it's difficult to teach the Thai people anything.

The tactic for implementing change is to be subtly suggestive so that they think that they thought of the idea themselves!

When it comes to these sort of things, one obstacle I come up against is that I don't actually have transport in Thailand apart from a taxi, songtel, mini bus etc.

And the Farm ... well it's surrounded by Farmland.

I thought about taking over a Pool testing kit that I have here to measure the ph as I am sure (as you suggested), that the ph balance is part of the problem.

The other part of the problem is to try and step into their shoes ... well your shoes for a second.

You, ozzydom, are a successful Fish Farmer ... been doing it for years.

Along comes one day, your daughters boyfriend ... heck, he isn't even Thai and he's suggesting to me how to change my techniques, used for maybe a generation or two, on how to farm fish ... get away with you boy!

Baby steps.

Get street cred.

Prove yourself in other areas.

Go forward from there.

I will win the war ... but prepared to lose a battle or two along the way ...

[ray23]

Well this was my day for problems. Wnet to check on the shrimp today as were instructed and we had left our phone number. They were all sold out. We were told to leave our number again and did so. But, that didn't do much good.

Anyone have any idea where we can find some for purchase, Udon, Nong Khai or Khan Kean region?

[ozzydom]

Hi David,you have it pretty well sussed out. Over here it is the Thai way or No way

You will find that aknowledgement or thanks is a rare commodity ,especially towards a farang.

&lt;deleted&gt;, we just had a small earth tremor here, My monitor tried to jump off the desk.

Where was I? oh yes, I have found that the best way is to just sow a seed so that if that seed develops then they think it was their own idea.

I remember long ago showing a Thai how to tie a bowline knot, since then innumerable local Thais have showed me this great knot they dreamed up.

[David48]

^^ I agree aussiedom ... it's their way ... or no way.

With the Family, the Farm kids love me, Mother embraces me ... Father occasionally shakes my hand ... but inch by inch ... he's coming across

The only golden, unbreakable rule is that I won't 'buy' their affection ... I'll earn the old fashioned way ... or not at all.

OH ... well it's nice to know that even in your maturing years the Earth still can move for you

[David48]

Well this was my day for problems. Wnet to check on the shrimp today as were instructed and we had left our phone number. They were all sold out. We were told to leave our number again and did so. But, that didn't do much good.

Anyone have any idea where we can find some for purchase, Udon, Nong Khai or Khan Kean region?

Well ray23 ... not a great day for you.

Unfortunately I can't help you with that.

Anyone?

[Familyonthemove]

Thanks for posting all the photos, details and the descriptions .... a great thread and a good read, you should write a book.

I guess from looking at the photos of the shrimp peeling and transport - the farm does not export?

[David48]

Familyonthe move ... we appreciate the compliment ...

As for exporting ... maybe in the future ... just trying to get the Farm functioning efficiently for now.

Plus I have 0.01% input into the Farm as it's run, owned and leased by the Mother and Father.

Discussion of where the Prawns are sold is in Post #7.

What I was thinking was, because there are a number of Ponds, one day making one of them a specialist Fishing Lake stocked with Barramundi.

[ozzydom]

Ray, I guess getting cosy with the girl at the office paid off.,she wanted my phone number and not T/W,s

Rang me Friday 2 weeks ago and they were packed and ready to go on the Monday

The old dogs tail can still wag.

[ray23]

Ray, I guess getting cosy with the girl at the office paid off.,she wanted my phone number and not T/W,s

Rang me Friday 2 weeks ago and they were packed and ready to go on the Monday

The old dogs tail can still wag.

You forget I was on the ride with you where the accident happened and the nurse sunk her claws into you silver tongue devil.

Worked out a way to introduce them in the pond safely. Cleaning out the new storage outside room, Thai's never throw anything away. We had four screen sliding door in there. Essentially making a box from the screen and put them in that way. If I can find some now.

[ozzydom]

Ray, I guess getting cosy with the girl at the office paid off.,she wanted my phone number and not T/W,s

Rang me Friday 2 weeks ago and they were packed and ready to go on the Monday

The old dogs tail can still wag.

You forget I was on the ride with you where the accident happened and the nurse sunk her claws into you silver tongue devil.

Worked out a way to introduce them in the pond safely. Cleaning out the new storage outside room, Thai's never throw anything away. We had four screen sliding door in there. Essentially making a box from the screen and put them in that way. If I can find some now.

She was only interested in going pillion on the African Twin

[ray23]

Yes, it was before I hit it with the cocktail after you were here I put it in. Iv'e done the lime twice trying to clear the water no luck yet.

What you see happened the day after we cut the tall grass in the far edge of the pond. The change was overnihgt after that. One thing for sure have lots of extra fish to experiment with.

[David48]

Well, while it won't qualify for an entry in next years Cannes Film Festival in France, nominated as an entry in the Best Short Film Award category ... it will do here ...

Couple more Videos below and a quick explanation to follow.

[David48]

How big are the Prawns bought for growing?

[David48]

Prawns in the Basket (short clip)

[David48]

Now, a lot of what you saw above goes against the grain of what normally happens in a combined Fish (Tilapia) and Prawn/Shrimp (White Shrimp) Farm pond.

The reason for this is that it's a speciality pond run by the Farm Father just for Prawns.

You can see by the size of the Prawn that they are already quite robust hence the handling method (chucking them into the pond behind the operating aerator.

Normally the small Prawns bought are handled carefully and given time to acclimatise to their new surroundings ... but not this time!

[David48]

Technicial information ...

Thai name

... กุ้งก้ามกราม (phonetically) Kûng k̂ām krām

English equivalant

... Giant freshwater prawn

Cost

... These were bought by the Kilo.

About 120 - 150 per kilo.

The price being was ฿200 per Kilo.

Age when bought

... About one month (she thinks)

As bought from the supplier before into the pond for growout.

How long are they grown out for before harvesting

... grown for about 4 - 5 months before being harvested and off to the market ... or a few for the local pot if I am visiting and promise to bring some 100 Pipers

Price when sold

... if the catch is of a larger size, say about 32 Prawns / kilo then about ฿140 Baht/kilo.

But if smaller size of say 62 shrimp / Kilo then about ฿110 Baht/kilo.

This price the Farm achives at the local market ... roughly described as wholesale, for want of a better term.

Current as at the 11/03/2012.

MissFarmGirl

is getting the hang of qualifing her information in the western style ...

Second explanatory post to follow ...

[David48]

Explanation.

Farm Father and Mother have two different approaches to Farming.

This stems from their different options and responsibilities at the Farm.

Mother has one large pond. Everything goes in. Most likely overstocked and under oxygenated because she's tired to check the ponds at 4am for saturated oxygen levels.

Mother runs the Farm.

Her one large Pond.

The kitchen

Her children's children to and from school.

A woman for all seasons ...

Father has different responsibilities.

He runs both small (think specialist) and large ponds.

He employs a staff member to assist him.

Because Father has different options he can choose to run an exclusive Giant freshwater prawn pond only.

According, he has to feed them and that incurs an additional cost because Prawns in a combined pond are not normally separately fed.

Prawns in a combined pond (for those late into this thread) rely on food which filters down from the fish.

Father usually is more analytical in his approach and thinks things through ... that is why I was surprised by his recent small Fish kills (see ozzydom and my conversations about ASS above) and why I am very cautious to offer 'advice' to a Thai Fish Farmer (particularly when she and I play starfish together ... keeping in the aquatic terminology).

[David48]

One last video and I'll leave you fine Farming folk to chat amongst yourselves ...

Farm Father feeding the Prawns/Shrimp.

Farm Father fixing the motor for the Klong Boat

Oh ... for those late into the thread. Farm Father is ex-Navy and lost a leg while he was serving. Don't know the full story, but when I tease it out of him ... I'll recant the non-personal bits here.

[MB1]

Great story David, show the link on an other of your posts in General and followed it here, I personally spend most of my time in the Building section, and the Isaan section of this forum, with occasional forays in to the general section , where I am mostly meet with frustration. I must say, your interesting story had attracted a new reader to the farming section.

Pretty girl your Gf, any plans to make a honest woman out of her any time soon? Better hurry before some one beats you to the punch. And all the shrimp you can eat! You lucky bastard.

I like the Idea that some one else mentioned of opening a restaurant, (if the location is right) by the pond. There is a similar coong restaurant here in Khon Kaen , nothing special just a hew bamboo huts around the pond, thy deliver the food with bicycles, and they do a brisk business..

Again , Great story, thanks for providing me with an enjoyable morning reading it.

Picture of the Coong place in KKC

And may I say 1 other person who's been converted to the farming section of TV forums, ME.

An absolutely exellent thread/topic IMO and one I will follow with interest, so please keep up and on with the thread David and Miss Farmgirl and other posters.

Sirineoiu is correct about the frustration in general topics IMO once

again.

I watched a very interesting documenary recently about sustainable fishing and even though it was about a small sustainable sea fishing fleet from Cornwall UK,what one of the points on it was was about about a fishing co operative of fishermen from the UK who went to meet a similar group of fishermen in the USA.

What they did in the USA was create a local co-op and rather than sell all of their catch including by catch to a dealer/wholesaler they created a group who sold directly to their local community which created extra income by cutting out the middle man. If I can find a link to the series I'll gladly post it anyone is interested.

Anyway thanks for the thread

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