Factory Workers - How Often Are They Paid?

[trevorg]

I think this may affect (or has affected) many of us, but I am being reminded again and would appreciate your knowledge/ experience.

Originally, I thought that, either my wife was being lied to, by her brother/ son/ daughter in law, or that she was 'protecting' them and fibbing to me! Maybe it's all the truth! We're not talking huge sums of money in 'western' terms, 5,000THB here and 10,000THB there, but we are talking a month to 6 weeks wages in 'average' Thai terms.

I've 'subbed' my wives family members to go and work in Laem Chabang, Chonburi etc in factories several times in the last few years (they are usually going to meet a 'not so distant relative' who is already working in the area), they arrive, and find a job within a couple of days, my 'sub' has allowed them to pay a small deposit on a room and a months rent (maybe 2000THB) and to pay for their transport to work and food until they get paid (assume 1 month).

They are taken on initially on a 'day rate', understandable, (my latest experience with my stepson & daughter-in-law - 21/02/12) is 200THB per day (not sure if this meets the minimum wage - but that's by the by)!

So, they started work on 21st February and have worked every day, according to the company (as I've been told), because they have not worked 10 days in February, they will not be paid until 29th March (29th is pay-day). So they can work 6 weeks without seeing a Baht?

They (me) has also been scammed for having to pay for medicals and buying uniforms before starting a job and then been 'let go' a couple of weeks later.

These jobs have been in factories for world producers, such as Mitsubishi and Sony.

I am trying to get to the bottom of whether they are working for a 'labour agency' who are scamming them and skimming their wages etc or if this is normal practice by global producers.

To be fair to the my brother-in-law and stepson and step daughter in law they have paid me back, very slowly when it's rice harvest time. But I am then supporting them here in the village until they decide they want to borrow another few grandTHB to go and make money in the factories again!

Your thoughts much appreciated, and can we please not make this a Thai bashing thread, why are you supporting your Thai wives family or a weekly, fortnightly, monthly sarcastic answer! Please answer the thread title, my words are just to explain why I asked it!

I look forward to your advice!

P.S. I may even be less the wiser, than I am now, by the end!

[bangkokrick]

I can only speak for the garment industry, but normally they are paid monthly in Thailand.

[trevorg]

bangkokrick - thank you for your answer, so a 'newbie' in a factory would have to work a full calendar month before being paid - even if they had started a few days after the start of the previous month?

[bangkokrick]

bangkokrick - thank you for your answer, so a 'newbie' in a factory would have to work a full calendar month before being paid - even if they had started a few days after the start of the previous month?

Yes they would have to work a full month before they got paid. The companies do this so that they keep the labour for at least a months period. Thais have a habit of not returning once they have money in their pockets.

[Beechboy]

Officially? Monthly nowadays.

Unofficially? (not the companies you mentioned) Whenever.

I really admire that you are helping these poor buggers who seem, like many here, to constantly have to live from hand to mouth.

You may not get your money back but you will get something back which is far more creditable, self-esteem.

Well done Sir! I admire your attitude even to the point where you suspect that your better half is stretching it a bit. She's not over-doing it and she has the draw of the family ties, so why worry?

It's the package.

[IanForbes]

Officially? Monthly nowadays.

Unofficially? (not the companies you mentioned) Whenever.

I really admire that you are helping these poor buggers who seem, like many here, to constantly have to live from hand to mouth.

You may not get your money back but you will get something back which is far more creditable, self-esteem.

Well done Sir! I admire your attitude even to the point where you suspect that your better half is stretching it a bit. She's not over-doing it and she has the draw of the family ties, so why worry?

It's the package.

x2

I also agree with Bangkokrick that many lower end workers do not return to their job as soon as they have a little jingle in their pockets. It frustrates companies who need to keep up a production level. It is another reason for bar fines in bars. It is an incentive to keep the workers at their place of employment. I have a Thai girlfriend who works as a masseuse. She has to pay the shop 500 baht a day for any day she misses work... other than her one day off a week. I have an acquaintance that has a fly tying company. Even though the girls get well paid by Asian standards it is hard to keep steady employees.

[trevorg]

bangkokrick - completely understand your answer, maybe there is a bit of that going on round here (and there)

Beechboy - thank you for your response, It's made me feel much better about the situation! I'm not 'worried' about the situation from my point of view, I'm just 'worried' that my family are being ripped off by unscrupulous employers (that aren't Sony & Mitsubishi) but 'labour supply' companies (if you see what I mean)! I'll bung them an extra 5000THB for the next month, and look forward to a couple of grand when they get paid after 6 weeks!

They only have to keep their jobs for 5 months and we'll be all square again! Circle of life!! I hope you'll all keep your fingers crossed for us!!

[trainman34014]

My Wife was a Midwife before retirement in 2008 and she worked 25 years in the Thai Medical Service. She has told me that anyone who starts work in the Medical Service has to work for 6 months before they receive any pay. Of course teaching Nurses and the like costs money and the Government wants to make sure that once people are accepted into the service that they will not leave quickly if they get paid after the first months training. After 6 months all back pay is paid and they then get paid monthly thereafter. I know this is not really related to factory workers but Wifey says she has had a lot of pals who were factory workers and they usually get paid monthly once they have worked the first month without pay.

[Beechboy]

You are welcome Trevorg.

They grumble back in the UK about the power of the Trade Unions.

They could do with a few over here. Kun Keir Hardy, where are you?

[trevorg]

IanF - your analogies are amazing!

We're talking about 'new starters'. People who haven't got a job and therefore minimal money to support themselves. Keep them at work (in a factory) by not paying them for 6 weeks, then pay them 6 weeks wages!

Most of them will have worked for 3 weeks, not been paid and therefore unable to pay their rent/ food and are therefore forced to go home or borrow money from loan sharks or kindly farang relations like us!

[vtjforyou]

Is there any official "labour supply" company in Thailand ?

Any website ?

Thanks.

[bangkokrick]

Officially? Monthly nowadays.

Unofficially? (not the companies you mentioned) Whenever.

I really admire that you are helping these poor buggers who seem, like many here, to constantly have to live from hand to mouth.

You may not get your money back but you will get something back which is far more creditable, self-esteem.

Well done Sir! I admire your attitude even to the point where you suspect that your better half is stretching it a bit. She's not over-doing it and she has the draw of the family ties, so why worry?

It's the package.

x2

I also agree with Bangkokrick that many lower end workers do not return to their job as soon as they have a little jingle in their pockets. It frustrates companies who need to keep up a production level. It is another reason for bar fines in bars. It is an incentive to keep the workers at their place of employment. I have a Thai girlfriend who works as a masseuse. She has to pay the shop 500 baht a day for any day she misses work... other than her one day off a week. I have an acquaintance that has a fly tying company. Even though the girls get well paid by Asian standards it is hard to keep steady employees.

Yes Ian it is very frustrating for the companies, as they have targets to meet. Most companies that I have worked with also impose fines for absenteeism, but this seems to have little effect. Every Country is different I guess, not the same as in the West, but why should it be lol.

[Spoonman]

They would be working 5 weeks and 2 days not 6 weeks.

I don't know the ins and outs of how the payrolls functions but we get paid monthly. I can only assume they started work after the payroll allocation was made by the finance dept hence they have to wait until the March payroll cycle.

[bangkokrick]

IanF - your analogies are amazing!

We're talking about 'new starters'. People who haven't got a job and therefore minimal money to support themselves. Keep them at work (in a factory) by not paying them for 6 weeks, then pay them 6 weeks wages!

Most of them will have worked for 3 weeks, not been paid and therefore unable to pay their rent/ food and are therefore forced to go home or borrow money from loan sharks or kindly farang relations like us!

Trevorg it is very difficult for the factories to get a balance here. How long is too long. The weeks after Songkran are a nightmare many return late and many never return at all. The other issue here is that the factory down the road is paying a higher salary, so this starts the 'merry go round'. It must be tough for the Thai workers to maintain themselves over even a 4 week period, so hats off for helping.

[trevorg]

My Wife was a Midwife before retirement in 2008 and she worked 25 years in the Thai Medical Service. She has told me that anyone who starts work in the Medical Service has to work for 6 months before they receive any pay. Of course teaching Nurses and the like costs money and the Government wants to make sure that once people are accepted into the service that they will not leave quickly if they get paid after the first months training. After 6 months all back pay is paid and they then get paid monthly thereafter. I know this is not really related to factory workers but Wifey says she has had a lot of pals who were factory workers and they usually get paid monthly once they have worked the first month without pay.

trainman - thank you, whilst the 'job' is different the 'sentiment' is obviously the same! You need somebody to support you during learning phases of career progression, whether it be from school to first job, or rice farmer's son to factory worker, or 6 months nurses training. If you don't have the support (family or government) then you have to do it yourself.

My point is, everyone should have a start, and if global corporations are using the poor labour laws of this country to abuse young workers by taking them on for up to 6 weeks as 'day workers' without pay, 'sacking' them and then not paying them anything because they haven't worked a full calendar month - that is wrong!

[janverbeem]

It sounds strange to me that this happened so many times already to your family members,because my experience is that Thai companies will rarely fire an employee as they have a hard time to find and keep them.

Maybe they have a bit too much eggs laid underneath them.

[trevorg]

They would be working 5 weeks and 2 days not 6 weeks.

I don't know the ins and outs of how the payrolls functions but we get paid monthly. I can only assume they started work after the payroll allocation was made by the finance dept hence they have to wait until the March payroll cycle.

Spoonman - Thank you for your input, and I understand how 'western payroll systems' worked in the mid eighties. I also understand that Thailand may be slightly behind the times in many things! As an esteemed gentleman pointed out earlier, many Thais live 'hand to mouth' and having saved up enough money to go and work in a factory (rent, food, transport), have to wait almost 2 months to get paid, they cannot last that long, work for 4 weeks and then fall behind on rental payments etc. The factory doesn't pay them anything because they ran out of money, lost their deposit on their rental room etc - vicious circle!

[IanForbes]

IanF - your analogies are amazing!

We're talking about 'new starters'. People who haven't got a job and therefore minimal money to support themselves. Keep them at work (in a factory) by not paying them for 6 weeks, then pay them 6 weeks wages!

Most of them will have worked for 3 weeks, not been paid and therefore unable to pay their rent/ food and are therefore forced to go home or borrow money from loan sharks or kindly farang relations like us!

I agree with you that it is VERY hard on the new workers. I saw a documentary of young Chinese workers who have to endure many hours of work before ever getting anything. They live in a dormatory with a minimal food existance allowance. It is almost a system of slavery and they can be released before receiving their back salary. However, there is always another side to all stories. Good on you for at least trying to help. Unfortunately, there are also the people who want something for nothing and do not have any intention of working hard. I had an ex-son-in law in Canada who was just like that, so I know even in a wealthy country there are those that are never reliable and never pull their own weight.

[trevorg]

It sounds strange to me that this happened so many times already to your family members,because my experience is that Thai companies will rarely fire an employee as they have a hard time to find and keep them.

Maybe they have a bit too much eggs laid underneath them.

janverbeem - I'm not sure what a 'bit too much eggs laid underneath them' means, but to explain further. Neither my brother in law or daughter in law have ever been fired. My brother in law was 'forced' to change jobs due to the floods. My step-son was fired twice, because his 'shift' 1) played football in the yard and broke a window - in their breaktime - they fired 7 new people (although only 1 didn't have the ball skills to not break a factory window) 2) They fire 9 people because 1 of the new shift chose to smoke on the production line (I believe they were polishing pans). My son had paid for a medical to get the job and buy his own uniform - he was not refunded and not paid for the 2 weeks work he did!

So, in your experience, can you 1) read the original post without casting aspersions (SP) on my Thai family or 2) answer my question or 3) tell us your actual experience (and not mine - I've already done that!)!

Cheers mate!

[Semper]

Unfortunately, there are also the people who want something for nothing and do not have any intention of working hard.

But this is also very fortunate to many people. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[bangkokrick]

IanF - your analogies are amazing!

We're talking about 'new starters'. People who haven't got a job and therefore minimal money to support themselves. Keep them at work (in a factory) by not paying them for 6 weeks, then pay them 6 weeks wages!

Most of them will have worked for 3 weeks, not been paid and therefore unable to pay their rent/ food and are therefore forced to go home or borrow money from loan sharks or kindly farang relations like us!

I agree with you that it is VERY hard on the new workers. I saw a documentary of young Chinese workers who have to endure many hours of work before ever getting anything. They live in a dormatory with a minimal food existance allowance. It is almost a system of slavery and they can be released before receiving their back salary. However, there is always another side to all stories. Good on you for at least trying to help. Unfortunately, there are also the people who want something for nothing and do not have any intention of working hard. I had an ex-son-in law in Canada who was just like that, so I know even in a wealthy country there are those that are never reliable and never pull their own weight.

Ian I am not saying that those factories in China do not exist, but in my 15 years of working in China and in the 100's of factories that I have visited I have never seen what you describe. I am working in china at the moment in a large factory making ski wear for the western markets. The floor is that clean that you could eat your dinner off it and the workers are very well cared for. I had lunch with the masses today around a 1000 of them, it was very good basic food consisting of many Chinese dishes and people went back for seconds without any problem. Yes they do live in dormitories because they are brought in mainly from the North on 2 year contracts. Believe it or not getting hold of good labour in China is like finding rocking horse shit. The bosses know this, so they take care of their employees.

Back on topic I don't think that the OP or his family are being taken for a ride, from the information he has given.

[janverbeem]

It sounds strange to me that this happened so many times already to your family members,because my experience is that Thai companies will rarely fire an employee as they have a hard time to find and keep them.

Maybe they have a bit too much eggs laid underneath them.

janverbeem - I'm not sure what a 'bit too much eggs laid underneath them' means, but to explain further. Neither my brother in law or daughter in law have ever been fired. My brother in law was 'forced' to change jobs due to the floods. My step-son was fired twice, because his 'shift' 1) played football in the yard and broke a window - in their breaktime - they fired 7 new people (although only 1 didn't have the ball skills to not break a factory window) 2) They fire 9 people because 1 of the new shift chose to smoke on the production line (I believe they were polishing pans). My son had paid for a medical to get the job and buy his own uniform - he was not refunded and not paid for the 2 weeks work he did!

So, in your experience, can you 1) read the original post without casting aspersions (SP) on my Thai family or 2) answer my question or 3) tell us your actual experience (and not mine - I've already done that!)!

Cheers mate!

Well Trevor,if I post my real experiences you will say I'm a Thai basher,so I prefer not to waste my time with that.Nine people were fired because 1 smoked yeah.

I think this is a topic in the line of, my girlfriend is different.

I have had many people working over the past few years,and I can't count the times that I come on the site in the morning and half of them has dissapeared,coincidental the day aftyer payday.Or the ones that ask for a weeks holiday and return after 5 weeks,that is when they run out of money.

Don't break open my mouth.

[trevorg]

janverbeem, I thank you for your input, and as I stated in my original post, there may be some Thai white lies that have crept into the actual explanations that I've received.

May I be so rude as to ask, where you come on to 'site', what is your role on that site and if you would have any workers, if when they arrived on site, you told them that you can work here for 1 day less than 2 months (about 60 days) without receiving a single satang, how many workers that you'd have on that site?

May I also ask you, if you turned up on a new job (that you'd travelled 100's of km's to get to on your own money), would you be prepared to not have any pay for 6 weeks?

Or have you had people who have worked on your site for 3 weeks, and you haven't paid them, they've left and you still haven't paid them (because they left?)

That was the point of my question!

This is not a row, it's a discussion! Kind regards!

[janverbeem]

janverbeem, I thank you for your input, and as I stated in my original post, there may be some Thai white lies that have crept into the actual explanations that I've received.

May I be so rude as to ask, where you come on to 'site', what is your role on that site and if you would have any workers, if when they arrived on site, you told them that you can work here for 1 day less than 2 months (about 60 days) without receiving a single satang, how many workers that you'd have on that site?

May I also ask you, if you turned up on a new job (that you'd travelled 100's of km's to get to on your own money), would you be prepared to not have any pay for 6 weeks?

Or have you had people who have worked on your site for 3 weeks, and you haven't paid them, they've left and you still haven't paid them (because they left?)

That was the point of my question!

This is not a row, it's a discussion! Kind regards!

The site means a construction site and I'm the owner and all workers are paid twice a month.Every one get's paid for every day they have worked but yes,if they leave unannounced they lose their payment for the past days.What would you have thought?

By the way those who leave unannounced will also rarely have any money to claim as they are smart enough to time their departure.

And now a question for you,do you really believe that companies like Sony and Mitsubishi will lower themselves to a standard of kicking out workers and refusing them their salary without a valid reason?

So

[IanForbes]

Ian I am not saying that those factories in China do not exist, but in my 15 years of working in China and in the 100's of factories that I have visited I have never seen what you describe. I am working in china at the moment in a large factory making ski wear for the western markets. The floor is that clean that you could eat your dinner off it and the workers are very well cared for. I had lunch with the masses today around a 1000 of them, it was very good basic food consisting of many Chinese dishes and people went back for seconds without any problem. Yes they do live in dormitories because they are brought in mainly from the North on 2 year contracts. Believe it or not getting hold of good labour in China is like finding rocking horse shit. The bosses know this, so they take care of their employees.

Back on topic I don't think that the OP or his family are being taken for a ride, from the information he has given.

That is good to hear, Rick. Maybe it was someone with an "Agenda" that produced the film. It's often the way with propaganda... everywhere.

I DO know that the Chinese are very smart in many ways and that is why they are over taking the western world. Once they bring their COMPLETE product quality up to world wide standards, and with no fake stuff that always ruins peoples confidence, then look out western world. I remember when Korea did that with their Hyundi Pony which was a junky copy of the Toyota Corola. Now Hyundi are very good vehicles.

But,back on topic. I wish the OP the best of luck. You can't win them all but if you have success with just one or two then you can pat yourself on the back. Forget the failures and take pride in the ones who used your support to further their own lives.

[janverbeem]

Trevor,and allow me to add.In the years i've lived here I have spoken with many employers,Thai and foreign who had a considerable workforce,but from who many have moved their business to other countries in the mean time.All of them told,and tell me untill current day,if we need 100 workers we will have to employ 150 only to be sure that 100 will show up every day.Says enough isn't it?

[trevorg]

janverbeem.

Once again, I thank you for your reply, as this is helping me to understand the answer(s) to my question(s).

Whilst a factory is completely different to construction site, you employ workers and you pay them every 2 weeks (for the work that they've performed in the last 2 weeks) some stay on, some take their money and run (some of whom come back later to be re-employed once their money is spent), some work for a few days, don't come back and don't get paid. Fair enough. Would you expect the same for a 6 week period?

Regarding the Sony/ Mitsubishi question, this was one of my main points, I don't believe that they, as global companies could do that, however if they are using 'short term/ day rate labour agencies, then they (within their contracts) may be doing that, and then the 'supplier of labour companies' are abusing the workers (i.e. taking money up front, paying 60% of what the big companies are paying for those 'day-workers' to the day workers etc).

I do believe that there is some 'un-official' labour suppliers to major factories', but I may be shot for saying it!

I hope you understand where I'm coming from!

[trevorg]

Trevor,and allow me to add.In the years i've lived here I have spoken with many employers,Thai and foreign who had a considerable workforce,but from who many have moved their business to other countries in the mean time.All of them told,and tell me untill current day,if we need 100 workers we will have to employ 150 only to be sure that 100 will show up every day.Says enough isn't it?

We're in complete agreement now! My wife and I (and the rest of the family who are not struggling in factories) live 3km from Cambodia. If we need the yard clearing up, maybe once a month, my father-in-law will pop out and come back with a pick-up full of gardeners, who'll tidy the place up - sit and have some lunch and some 'pop' and go home happy, sometimes it's 3, sometimes it's a 'family' of 9. The point is, it costs me the same each time 300THB. I don't even notice that that the grass is too long!

Thank you all for your responses! I'm still none the wiser!

[h90]

one question is: are they registered? Every labor must be registered somewhere, also need to pay the insurance.

If not, than it is illegal and they can complain somewhere (there are organisations but I don't know)

[janverbeem]

Trevor,and allow me to add.In the years i've lived here I have spoken with many employers,Thai and foreign who had a considerable workforce,but from who many have moved their business to other countries in the mean time.All of them told,and tell me untill current day,if we need 100 workers we will have to employ 150 only to be sure that 100 will show up every day.Says enough isn't it?

We're in complete agreement now! My wife and I (and the rest of the family who are not struggling in factories) live 3km from Cambodia. If we need the yard clearing up, maybe once a month, my father-in-law will pop out and come back with a pick-up full of gardeners, who'll tidy the place up - sit and have some lunch and some 'pop' and go home happy, sometimes it's 3, sometimes it's a 'family' of 9. The point is, it costs me the same each time 300THB. I don't even notice that that the grass is too long!

Thank you all for your responses! I'm still none the wiser!

Sorry about this Trevor,but we are definitely not talking the same thing.

You're talking about getting your garden done and paying the same price for it,being it done by 3 or 9 people.

I'm talking about employers who have a contract to complete and who need to hire 150 workers because they never know how many gonna show up the next day.Can you understand what kind of stress this puts on a business owner?

And the reason they don't show up is because they think they have enough money in their pocket to survive the day without working or have a "source" where they always can go knock if they're short.

And do you really think that those people who forget to show up at the factory gonna tell their relatives,or their never ending sponsor,the reason of their return is that they were too lazy to go work.