Solar Power To Power Your Home?

[jinjinswing]

Been looking over the site but so far nothing has come up on this, i would like to know if anyone here has had experiance with useing solar power especialy to run there home. This is something that intrestes me and sure im going to hear about how expensive it would be etc but it cant be anywhere as expensive to buy as im my case it would be in Australia.

[Naam]

use the search function, read various threads and then forget about solar power to your home.

[sezze]

It is cheaper these days , and grid connecting is possible now . This will save you a lot on the batteries so payback time is now actually quite within reach .

[canopy]

it cant be anywhere as expensive to buy as im my case it would be in Australia

Brace yourself. Thailand might have the most inflated prices for solar equipment. Off-grid is a killer because you'll have hundreds of thousands of baht of batteries you need to throw in the trash and buy new ones to replace every few years. Hardly green or cost saving. I have seen projected 20 year payback break even on PV panels, but he question you have to ask yourself is given the average person lives in a house for 7 just years before moving, who is going to get the payback? And that's given they perform 100% and don't break down early.

[Naam]

It is cheaper these days , and grid connecting is possible now . This will save you a lot on the batteries so payback time is now actually quite within reach .

inform yourself and realise that grid connecting is still a wet dream even though it exists on paper.

[jinjinswing]

True if need to rely on batterys then its not worth it, going back into the grid would be great it it worked, do they have an electric tarrif likke they do here?

There are many uses for solar, hot water, drive an extraction fan to cool the roof space, pool pump or even charge your phone....

This system for solar and fed back into the grid has been around for a while its not new its up and running if its new to thailand that would be why its still expensive, once a few business people see a buck in it there will be someone every second block building them and the price will drop.

[sezze]

It is cheaper these days , and grid connecting is possible now . This will save you a lot on the batteries so payback time is now actually quite within reach .

inform yourself and realise that grid connecting is still a wet dream even though it exists on paper.

True if need to rely on batterys then its not worth it, going back into the grid would be great it it worked, do they have an electric tarrif likke they do here?

There are many uses for solar, hot water, drive an extraction fan to cool the roof space, pool pump or even charge your phone....

This system for solar and fed back into the grid has been around for a while its not new its up and running if its new to thailand that would be why its still expensive, once a few business people see a buck in it there will be someone every second block building them and the price will drop.

According to the VSPP program , the elec company ( MEA /PEA ) buys back your exess power . In the vspp program , there is less to no chance of getting in because of massive solar investments in Thailand who did subsribe on it . Grid connecting should however be no problem as long as you use the right controller . Most things are easy to find on the MEA/PEA website . For really getting the elec company willing to get you put in the elec , i have no idea ( maybe others have tried it with PEA/MEA ... please inform us on it .

Solar panels according to the law are free from import duties ( handling fees etc still need to be paid ) so you can import them , without excessive costs involved . A couple of months ago i did see prices which were very competitive and were not worth the hassle of importing it yourself ( around 65 baht /wp ) . It is difficult to find good prices but there are a few here and there .

[jinjinswing]

If connecting to the grid and the investment costs of the unit arnt out of this world it could be a goer especially if planning a new build.

If its a no goer there are other solar products to power a few devices in your home during the day worth considering.

[Crossy]

To put things in perspective.

Some of the Chinese suppliers will do a 5000W grid-tied system with panels and inverter for about USD 10,000 = 300,000 Baht with free shipping (surface). Let's assume you can get this through customs with no duty (as per this post ), just VAT @ 7% pushing the cost to 321,000 (I've neglected the 10% duty on the inverter for ease of sums).

If you believe what they say this will generate 25-30 units of power per day, say about 150 Baht's worth. So the system would pay for itself in 321,000/150 days = 2140 days = just under 6 years.

Could be worth doing

A stand alone system with batteries for off-grid applications would cost more like USD 15,000 pushing the cost recovery to 9 years, even if you neglect the cost of replacing the batteries.

[sezze]

It is nice to read that LED lights are also VAT free . When i do not find them now in Thailand then i will proceed on importing a few . They are available , but are very hard to find and are limited in amount .

As for the solar panels , Depending on the size of the system , it can we worth it . Like i said , i've found the panels in Thailand at 65baht per watt which is offcourse more expensive then imported ones , but you do not have any problems with costums in the 1st place . Inverters are small so if they are overly expensive , there are plenty of ways to ship them in . Only if someone can give us a update in grid tie options . I know it is possible , i only need to know how difficult it is ( from MEA/PEA side ) .

[sunee7777]

I've just installed a Fronius IG20 grid tie inverter & eight Chinaland 275 mono crystal solar panels at my place in Phuket, the inverter was from ebay UK costing 25,000 Baht & the panels panels purchased in Thailand for 148,000 Baht, the only other expense is for the structure to mount the panels which depend on your DIY skills but should not cost a lot. I'm producing between 1,000 & 1,800 watts during the day which is plenty for my needs running a typical house with air conditioners, computers & TV. Might take a while to recover my outlay but the gear is supposed to be good for around 25 years.

[sezze]

I've just installed a Fronius IG20 grid tie inverter & eight Chinaland 275 mono crystal solar panels at my place in Phuket, the inverter was from ebay UK costing 25,000 Baht & the panels panels purchased in Thailand for 148,000 Baht, the only other expense is for the structure to mount the panels which depend on your DIY skills but should not cost a lot. I'm producing between 1,000 & 1,800 watts during the day which is plenty for my needs running a typical house with air conditioners, computers & TV. Might take a while to recover my outlay but the gear is supposed to be good for around 25 years.

Did you ask your local elec provider for grid tie your solar , or did you just do it without asking ? The inverter takes care of everything , and sync's out with the grid , so it is no problem , except if the elec company makes problems out of it .

How much kwh is produced each day ? You mention 8*275 so 2.2kwp and that is propably making your 1000 to 1800 watt . Am i correct when stating that for each kw you make on average 4.5 kwh/d in Thailand ( so in your case 2.2*4.5 = 10kwh day ) ?

[electau]

First obtain quotes from suppliers to supply and install a grid connected solar system. Most units are arrays of 1.5kW or 3.0kW, This is the output of the solar cells at 100% peak sunlight. In practice over a year the average output is around 50% of this. The inverters are around 85% efficient at full ot near full output. They are expensive. Make sure that you check the warranty on the panels and inverter.

For safety reasons the inverter will shut down if the grid supply is lost. You may have contract conditions with the electricity provider. Special metering is supplied by them to record import /export of energy in kWh.

Output is affected by weather conditions.

IMO the economics are not there.

If you are unable to connect to grid power on might consider a RAPS ( remote area power system) they use solar panels, batteries and diesel generator(s). They are expensive.

Edited March 5, 2012 by electau

[sunee7777]

I've just installed a Fronius IG20 grid tie inverter & eight Chinaland 275 mono crystal solar panels at my place in Phuket, the inverter was from ebay UK costing 25,000 Baht & the panels panels purchased in Thailand for 148,000 Baht, the only other expense is for the structure to mount the panels which depend on your DIY skills but should not cost a lot. I'm producing between 1,000 & 1,800 watts during the day which is plenty for my needs running a typical house with air conditioners, computers & TV. Might take a while to recover my outlay but the gear is supposed to be good for around 25 years.

Did you ask your local elec provider for grid tie your solar , or did you just do it without asking ? The inverter takes care of everything , and sync's out with the grid , so it is no problem , except if the elec company makes problems out of it .

How much kwh is produced each day ? You mention 8*275 so 2.2kwp and that is propably making your 1000 to 1800 watt . Am i correct when stating that for each kw you make on average 4.5 kwh/d in Thailand ( so in your case 2.2*4.5 = 10kwh day ) ?

Just do it, to my knowledge grid tie inverters are legal but if you produce a surplus Egat won't pay you for it, installation is very easy & no hassle with batteries. Finding a good supplier of the gear is not easy but I had no problems with ABO who are based in Chiang Mai & supply anywhere.

[David006]

I've just installed a Fronius IG20 grid tie inverter & eight Chinaland 275 mono crystal solar panels at my place in Phuket, the inverter was from ebay UK costing 25,000 Baht & the panels panels purchased in Thailand for 148,000 Baht, the only other expense is for the structure to mount the panels which depend on your DIY skills but should not cost a lot. I'm producing between 1,000 & 1,800 watts during the day which is plenty for my needs running a typical house with air conditioners, computers & TV. Might take a while to recover my outlay but the gear is supposed to be good for around 25 years.

Did you ask your local elec provider for grid tie your solar , or did you just do it without asking ? The inverter takes care of everything , and sync's out with the grid , so it is no problem , except if the elec company makes problems out of it .

How much kwh is produced each day ? You mention 8*275 so 2.2kwp and that is propably making your 1000 to 1800 watt . Am i correct when stating that for each kw you make on average 4.5 kwh/d in Thailand ( so in your case 2.2*4.5 = 10kwh day ) ?

Just do it, to my knowledge grid tie inverters are legal but if you produce a surplus Egat won't pay you for it, installation is very easy & no hassle with batteries. Finding a good supplier of the gear is not easy but I had no problems with ABO who are based in Chiang Mai & supply anywhere.

Really interested to see how these projects actually pan out and the overall business case vs realistic results ( initial total investment and maintenance vs amortised ROI over say 5 years) If your paying say 1500bt /month electric bill that is what about 500 units/per month at 3baht. Setting up seems to be around a 100kbaht give or take without battery changes and selling over production. "Take a while" looks to be a rather long while..lol

Probably lots on google but not in Thailand....

Still, all good fun..'long as it don't impact the copious contents of your beer fridge....

[electau]

Altough based in Australia this site gives some useful information on grid connected solar photovoltaic systems.

http://www.barrymiller.com.au/solar/

[jinjinswing]

I think with solar power we really want to just reduce costs and help the environment , we cant just say oh it takes 7 plus years its not worth it..........we could apply that principle to everything we do in life, this car over that car this location over that location etc, fact is its important to me but not you...end of story.

The system adds value, if you were selling the property to the right buyer it would it would be a hugh selling point, the doom and gloom merchants will say...but the panels only have a limited life span etc well there is always on going maintenance of your home so whats the big deal...you got a swimming poll that sucks the money out of your bank account...to each his own...

I started the post to see if it was in Thailand, it is and im interested.

[bangkokeddie]

I think with solar power we really want to just reduce costs and help the environment , we cant just say oh it takes 7 plus years its not worth it..........we could apply that principle to everything we do in life, this car over that car this location over that location etc, fact is its important to me but not you...end of story.

The system adds value, if you were selling the property to the right buyer it would it would be a hugh selling point, the doom and gloom merchants will say...but the panels only have a limited life span etc well there is always on going maintenance of your home so whats the big deal...you got a swimming poll that sucks the money out of your bank account...to each his own...

I started the post to see if it was in Thailand, it is and im interested.

I agree with you absolutely, and am extremely interested in finding a solar power installation company in Thailand who can provide me with a standalone solution - about 6KW peak, with batteries, inverters etc.

Please do let me know if you have (or anyone else has) experience of any good companies here, thanks!

[canopy]

There was a time I was optimistic about solar power, but that was before I researched it and became aware of the realities. I am not being negative or bringing doom and gloom, just honesty and factual data. Unless you are kilometers away from power poles, the reality is the solar system you describe will cost more than being on the grid, have no payoff down the line, and heavily pollute the environment. All you need to understand this clearly is to just see the price and longevity of the batteries. Such a system could be a negative to anyone wanting to buy the house. The first thing many will think of is how much it will cost to scrap it and get cheap, unlimited power from the power company.

There are plenty of companies in Thailand that specialize in solar and you can even find products at various home stores. For instance, homemart offers a 2 kilowatt hour off-grid system with everything for 970,000 baht. Leonics specializes in solar products and has a bigger 12KwH system suitable for a small house, but now you are talking 7 digits of price. Keep in mind this is the startup cost. Operating costs replacing batteries and maintenance will add significant cost on a regular basis. And both companies I mention have raised the prices of their products over the years, not lowered them.

[Lantern]

Just for the nay sayers.

OK I got a good deal, I'm in australia. But have lived on solar "Stand alone"for over 20 years. Now in town with a grid feed system.

Power production since 26/7/10

Figures from 26/7/10 until 10/2/12

In the 532 days since my system was installed my 20 x 185W Trina panels have produced a total of 7752 kW/h. An average of 14.57 kW/h per day.

This means I have not had to pay the $1486.82 that I would have paid for the electricity I consumed during that time.

This means I have not had to pay the $530.56 that I would have paid for the service fees during that time.

Country Energy has also sent me cheques totalling $2742.71 (not taxed on this)

The value of all this is $4742.09 or $8.91 per day or $5.15 in my pocket after taking out the electricity & service components.

It cost me under 9K AUD to fit it.

They read the meter again next month, can't wait!

[necronx99]

Just for the nay sayers.

OK I got a good deal, I'm in australia. But have lived on solar "Stand alone"for over 20 years. Now in town with a grid feed system.

Power production since 26/7/10

Figures from 26/7/10 until 10/2/12

In the 532 days since my system was installed my 20 x 185W Trina panels have produced a total of 7752 kW/h. An average of 14.57 kW/h per day.

This means I have not had to pay the $1486.82 that I would have paid for the electricity I consumed during that time.

This means I have not had to pay the $530.56 that I would have paid for the service fees during that time.

Country Energy has also sent me cheques totalling $2742.71 (not taxed on this)

The value of all this is $4742.09 or $8.91 per day or $5.15 in my pocket after taking out the electricity & service components.

It cost me under 9K AUD to fit it.

They read the meter again next month, can't wait!

It cost you 9k. How much was the govt subsidy. How much will they cost to replace once the subsidy is gone?

[Lantern]

^^ The REC's it earned were around 8K.

They will keep paying me untill 1/1/17.

Panels have a warranty of 20 years, the inverter 5 years.

After 1/1/17 the system will still produce more power than the house uses.

Who knows what they will pay for the excess after then.

As for replacement that will only happen if anything breaks.

[IsaanUSA]

Step 1 : Reduce energy consumption as much as possible. This includes changing out incandescent light blubs, replacing inefficient appliances (refrigerator, water heater, etc), large computers, TV(s), air-con units. Also check for air leaks around your house, and add more insulation to reduce air-con usage. This will have an immediate effect on your energy consumption and will require a smaller PV solar system to be installed.

I think this is the most important step for anyone considering solar. Reduce consumption first.

Agree with grid tied. Batteries are a huge expense and require maintenance.

[electau]

Here is a good article on solar power.

http://papundits.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/household-solar-power-dont-believe-the-hype/

[Naam]

I think with solar power we really want to just reduce costs and help the environment , we cant just say oh it takes 7 plus years its not worth it..........we could apply that principle to everything we do in life, this car over that car this location over that location etc, fact is its important to me but not you...end of story.

The system adds value, if you were selling the property to the right buyer it would it would be a hugh selling point, the doom and gloom merchants will say...but the panels only have a limited life span etc well there is always on going maintenance of your home so whats the big deal...you got a swimming poll that sucks the money out of your bank account...to each his own...

I started the post to see if it was in Thailand, it is and im interested.

keep on dreaming!

[jacnl2000]

To put things in perspective.

Some of the Chinese suppliers will do a 5000W grid-tied system with panels and inverter for about USD 10,000 = 300,000 Baht with free shipping (surface). Let's assume you can get this through customs with no duty (as per this post http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3778237 ), just VAT @ 7% pushing the cost to 321,000 (I've neglected the 10% duty on the inverter for ease of sums).

If you believe what they say this will generate 25-30 units of power per day, say about 150 Baht's worth. So the system would pay for itself in 321,000/150 days = 2140 days = just under 6 years.

Could be worth doing

A stand alone system with batteries for off-grid applications would cost more like USD 15,000 pushing the cost recovery to 9 years, even if you neglect the cost of replacing the batteries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering:

“Most electricity meters accurately record in both directions, allowing a no-cost method of effectively banking excess electricity production for future credit.”

Especially old meters do. E.g. in case of a watermill digesting a continuous flow of water during night and day it will be possible to plug the generated energy directly into an available empty 220 Volts wallsocket. Consequently an old electricity meter will automatically be slowed down or run into the opposite direction. In such a case there’s no need to accumulate energy.

[Naam]

_{it will be possible to plug the generated energy directly into an available empty 220 Volts wallsocket}

goodness gracious! solar power (is the topic not water mills) into an empty socket? Crossy where are you?

[bankruatsteve]

Yah. And backing up a meter cannot be as simple as plugging a generating source into a socket - or not? I recall a thread on meter reverser gadgets a while back and it was sceptical they worked. C'mon TIT - methinks it ain't going to happen.

[Crossy]

Yah. And backing up a meter cannot be as simple as plugging a generating source into a socket - or not? I recall a thread on meter reverser gadgets a while back and it was sceptical they worked. C'mon TIT - methinks it ain't going to happen.

If you push energy into the grid a Watt/Hour meter will indeed go backwards (Google nett metering). The "meter reverser's" work (sometimes) by conning the meter into thinking that energy is flowing the wrong way, not the same as actually sending power that way.

Of course, you have to be generating more energy than your home is using before the meter will spin backwards, but if you generate a lot during the day (it's solar after all) you can 'store' that energy in the grid and use it at night. You are effectively using the power grid as your battery.

[electau]

One must use 2 meters, one import and one export, these are combined in one meter. You must have a written agreement with your power supplier.

Power is NOT stored on the grid, it is not a battery. The electricity you supply is the difference between the import and export in kWh.

The inverter will shut down in the event of loss of supply by the network.

Edited April 20, 2012 by electau