Teaching In Thailand

[planeman2012]

Hello to everyone,

I am a new member to this forum. I have been doing research on other sites trying to find answers and to get perspectives from others. I am a 58 year old Black American male living in the USA. I work for an Airline and am thinking of taking a leave and eventually settling in Thailand. I recieve a pension from a previous job. I don't have a degree and no teaching experience, I am considering talking a TESOL course, with the idea of of moving to and teaching English in Thailand. Taking my circumstances into consideration I'd like some feedback as to this being a realistic goal.

I have been to Thailand on numerous occasions, albeit my trips have been limited to Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai and Pattaya. I love the country, the people and the culture. My most recent trip was to Pattaya in February, I plan on going again in June as a sort of "boots on the ground" research trip. I've read posts on other sites that said age and the color of ones skin could be a roadblock to gaining employment as a Teacher. What are others thought on that?

I understand and know the requirements for a retirement visa, but I want to live and work in Thailand if possible!

Any feedback from those who may have experience would be appreciated. I'm trying to get the best information possible before I waste my money on a TESOL course. I am a planner, I do lots of research and seek opinions and advice from various sources before I make a decision.

Thank you in advance!

[BlackArtemis]

Expect to meet a lot of agism and racism. I don't know how easy it will be for you to find a decent job.

On the other hand, this post seems in line with a few other newbie posts throughout the forum, posts that create the perfect storm of problems that each sub forum discusses. If you are genuine, I suggest you read about Thai views and the problems associated with being over 45 and being darker skinned before making the plunge.

[Scott]

It is true that you will meet a fair amount of ageism and racism in Thailand. However, the schools that I have a supervisory role in do hire Blacks and older people. The difficulty that you may encounter is that the preference for youth and light skin will win, unless your qualifications are quite high. For example, in the past several years we had 3 black teachers. All three were from Africa. All three had teaching credentials and experience teaching in their home country. Two taught mathematics to high school students and one taught science to upper high school level students.

They were, without a doubt, the best candidates from the job and knew the subject matter inside and out. They also demonstrated good teaching techniques and classroom management. The principal at the time was quite pleased.

In your case, with no degree, it is going to be an uphill battle. Having a passport from an English speaking country will help. Experience is important and that is something that you lack.

In the major population centers, finding work will be more difficult.

As long as you have sufficient funds to support yourself reasonably comfortably, you will likely be able to find some employment and over time you may find a suitable work environment. You will need to get a qualification and some hands on experience.

In my limited experience, the difficult task for applicants is getting a foot in the door. Once a person gets an interview (and there is usually a demonstration class), the playing field levels out. I saw no discrimination once people were hired.

Best of luck and keep us posted. In Thailand appearance is important, but it isn't everything, at least in schools that are interested in educating the students.

[otherstuff1957]

I have two African American friends in Thailand who have both worked as teachers at Thai schools, so it is possible. One is in his mid-60s and the other in his late 40s, however, they both have university degrees!

[planeman2012]

Thanks for the replies thus far. Scott, I am sort of encouraged by your thoughts. I feel confident that if I can get a foot in enough doors, I'll be able to sell myself. I don't look or feel my age, I have a high energy level and most people when age comes up in a conversation are surprised by mine... and usually are off by ten years. I take care of myself, and take pride in my appearance and in the way I interact and relate with others. I would appreciate continued advice and thoughts from others here. This may seem like a pipe dream to some, maybe my options are few, and there seems to be roadblocks ahead. I don't give up easily and I'll give it a good fight until the winds get knocked out of my sails. I won't make a decision based on what my heart wants, that's too easy. I'll make an informed and educated decision that will mostly rely on the thought, advice and experiences from those of you here and on other web sites I have and will visit.

Thanks

[attrayant]

You will need to get a qualification and some hands on experience.

Can you expand on this. What are some qualifications that the op, or other folk in a similar situation, can get that might improve his chances?

[Ijustwannateach]

For an amazingly in-depth look at teaching in Thailand and various potential qualification issues, please read all the pinned threads (would especially suggest the ones on the Teacher's Council of Thailand (or TCT) 'licensing' process, and the Questions about Qualifications thread, at least the more recent pages of it). It's very complicated. In order of desirability: TEFL cert, Bachelor's in anything, Bachelor's in a related subject, Bachelor's in education, Master's in the same order, Ph.D in the same order).

In theory we're all supposed to have degree-level qualifications in education, even the TEFL teachers- which is stricter than Japan for TEFL. Since they couldn't make that work in practice, they have a lot of fee-based backpedalling schemes. Read the threads for more details.

[BlackArtemis]

Thanks for the replies thus far. Scott, I am sort of encouraged by your thoughts. I feel confident that if I can get a foot in enough doors, I'll be able to sell myself. I don't look or feel my age, I have a high energy level and most people when age comes up in a conversation are surprised by mine... and usually are off by ten years. I take care of myself, and take pride in my appearance and in the way I interact and relate with others. I would appreciate continued advice and thoughts from others here. This may seem like a pipe dream to some, maybe my options are few, and there seems to be roadblocks ahead. I don't give up easily and I'll give it a good fight until the winds get knocked out of my sails. I won't make a decision based on what my heart wants, that's too easy. I'll make an informed and educated decision that will mostly rely on the thought, advice and experiences from those of you here and on other web sites I have and will visit.

Thanks

Sorry if my first post came off kinda dicksih, if it is something you REALLY want to do, go for it. Just follow Ijustwannateach's suggestion above me. You can also submit your CV without your age and without a photo as a way to better get in the door. Good luck to you!

[planeman2012]

BlackArtemis, No need for an apology, I didn't take it as you being dickish. I appreciate your views.

[Scott]

If my goal was to teach somewhere in the world, I would pursue a degree in education. If my goal was to teach in Thailand, I would take a TEFL course in Thailand. There are some who have actual classroom experience and assistance in getting a job.

[garro]

Thanks for the replies thus far. Scott, I am sort of encouraged by your thoughts. I feel confident that if I can get a foot in enough doors, I'll be able to sell myself. I don't look or feel my age, I have a high energy level and most people when age comes up in a conversation are surprised by mine... and usually are off by ten years. I take care of myself, and take pride in my appearance and in the way I interact and relate with others. I would appreciate continued advice and thoughts from others here. This may seem like a pipe dream to some, maybe my options are few, and there seems to be roadblocks ahead. I don't give up easily and I'll give it a good fight until the winds get knocked out of my sails. I won't make a decision based on what my heart wants, that's too easy. I'll make an informed and educated decision that will mostly rely on the thought, advice and experiences from those of you here and on other web sites I have and will visit.

Thanks

Passion will get you places in Thailand just like anywhere else. If you want to increase your chances of better employment it might be a good idea to do some courses - it would be possible for you to gain a reputable degree via a correspondence course while you teach or you could do a degree in Thai university. If you truly want to teach in Thailand then you will be able to make it happen. Good luck to you.

[ivan96822]

Best of luck to the planeman! I hope things work out for you...

[SlyAnimal]

Do a TESOL course, that should be enough to get you a job teaching (And it'll assist you with being a better teacher too).

If you want a work permit etc, that'll be upto the teachers council I think, on whether they give you a waiver or not. A guy from my school previously got a waiver without any problems, however didn't receive the waiver this year because they wanted him to show that he was working towards higher education. I don't think he needed it, just needed to show that he was working towards it e.g. enrolled in a part time online degree program or similar. For more details, you'd need to find someone more knowledgeable than me, but you should be able to secure a job first, and then worry about the additional requirements later.

Also as others have said previously, you'll likely not fare well when placed next to a young, white skinned university graduate. However, if you're willing to somewhere more rural, there are not many other applicants for jobs, in fact, they struggle to even find native English speakers, let alone ones with qualifications and at the age / skin colour which they would desire. As a result, you'll find that there's very little discrimination in the countryside lol.

However, one thing to be aware of. Is that you'll probably need to get on the ground here first and look for a job, rather than applying from the USA or even applying when you're not easily able to attend an interview. I recently sent a CV for one of my friends to a school, she had a great application. A fair skinned female, with previous teaching experience in Thailand, a native English speaker and she has a lively personality to boot, a great candidate. The school were really excited, about getting her for next year.... they hired someone else this term, someone who wasn't a native speaker and didn't have any prior teaching experience. They hired him, even though they had both CVs in their hands at the same time, simply because the non native speaker was already living in the city and could start immediately. Often here, it's first in best dressed.

Edited March 8, 2012 by SlyAnimal

[planeman2012]

Again, I'd like to thank you all for your replies. If others have insight and the time please keep them coming. I was totally discouraged and nearly dissuaded after reading this reply from a member on Ajarn when I posted bascially the same question his reply verbatim...

"Guess you missed the "other part" of the reply... (some people have problems reading past the 1st line).

If you have a degree to go with that shiny new TEFL cert then there won't be any problem getting a job even without experience (beyond the 6 hour practicum that you had on your course).

If you don't have a degree to go with it then stay home. Your chances of legal work are effectively "0". (there are always chances for illegal work but there are also risks associated with it)."

I don't have a problem with others views and maybe it wasn't what I wanted to hear, but the tone of his reply rubbed me the wrong way. In a way it motivated me to broaden my research which led me to this site and others. I'll continue gaining knowledge in my searches and will take the positive views and comments along with the negative ones. How better to make an informed decision!

Thanks

[BlackArtemis]

People believe you can not work without a degree, this is untrue. It will just be a lot more difficult for you to get work, but I have known people to get jobs with only a high school diploma, even at private schools.

[tolstoy]

Lack of degree, experience, Age, and color will put you in the lowest bracket for jobs. If you are confident on selling yourself as a teacher without qualifications, degree, experience or a clue what teaching EFL is, then you are either arrogant or naive. Any job will require you to do a demo lesson. If you know the field then you will be alright, however if you are just winging because you are a native speaker, you might be in for a surprise.

A TEFL might help you get a clue as to teaching but will not likely help with getting a job. It is getting tougher to get jobs without degrees. Most people that I know working without degrees have been doing it for a while. With the over saturation of teachers jobs have actually lowered wages. Jobs 4-5 years ago paid more than today. You may find work but you will have to be flexible on where you live.

Also remember you cannot work on a retirement visa.

I would disagree with the other poster saying bigger cities would be harder. I think that you would be more likely to get language academy work in BKK. They have incredibly big turnover.

[Scott]

Tolstoy is correct about language schools and the turnover. If you are in the larger urban areas, you will find a lot of openings. The competition and requirements in the urban areas for those without a degree gets more difficult.

[planeman2012]

tolstoy, Although I appreciate and value your views, I feel I need to express the fact that I said in my first post that I am considering taking a TESOL course. I have no intention of "winging" because I am a native speaker.

I never said I would try to sell myself without qualifications, it's true I don't have a degree or experience. I'm sure once I complete an EFL course I'll have a clue. A TEFL might not help me get a job, I wouldn't rely soley on that. It will be a combination of my appearance, personality and confidence. At least I'll feel more assured if I go into an interview with knowledge of what teaching is about. I have no illusions about the factors that are against me.

Also, I never mentioned anything about working on a retirement visa, I have done research on those as well and know what the rules are.

[tolstoy]

My point is that even with a TEFL course you will have little to offer. Do you really think that you can learn to teach in 120 hours? You will get a basic review of grammar (things that you probably have forgotten), and one or perhaps two methods for instructing grammar. You will at most get a basic understanding of how to approach second language learning, basic classroom management techniques, learn a few games and things to become an edutainer.

*Post edited per request of writer*

Edited March 10, 2012 by Scott
edited

[Scott]

The OP has asked for advice. He did not ask for a criticism of his life-choices. Further off-topic posts will earn posters a suspension and a posting holiday.

What makes a teacher, and finding a job in teaching in Thailand are two altogether teachers.

[tolstoy]

On the other major teaching website for Thailand, there are a lot of posts about people without degrees finding (/not) work. There have been a few younger, white guys without degrees who couldn't find work even after a few months. One writer has been teaching for many years in Thailand but left his job this year. He is now finding it very difficult to get another job that pays as well. The market is saturated all over the world. Teaching jobs in general pay less than they did even 4 years ago. (before speding money on a TEFL, ask some schools or recruiters if they would hire you.) TEFL schools will sometimes promise a lot. They are a business, so treat what you hear and read by them like you would any salesperson.

If you really are serious about teaching and working in Thailand for the future, you might consider getting a degree. Especially if you are serious about teaching and in it for the long haul. You can get a degree here also. There are a few universities that offer education degrees in English. If you are only go to be in Thailand a year or two at most to teach, then it wouldn't be worth it, but it is something to think about. If you just want something to do and don't need the income (which would most likely be very low without a degree), then just volunteer at temple/village schools.

[planeman2012]

Yes I do think I will be able to teach after taking a TEFL course of 120 hours. Why shouldn't I, after reading posts here and at other sites many people are doing just that. Have you taken a course? Why are these courses being offered and people taking them, gaining employment if they don't prepare you to be able to teach? What makes you think because a person has a degree they are qualified to teach English? As far as income I don't care if it as you say low. Seems from what I have been reading that 25000- 30000bht is what the folks without degrees are making which would be enough to supplement my pension imcome. I don't think I will consider getting a degree. I also think this will be my last response to your somewhat cynical and jaded views...

[quandow]

The Sarasas school system is ALWAYS looking for teachers. Their high turnover explains the working conditions, but it IS a foot in the door and great to gain experience. They have an acceptable starting wage (if you have a pension which you mentioned you did), LOTS of time off, and provide nice apartments on campus. Good luck.

[otherstuff1957]

^ Personally, I would pass up the on-campus housing. I like to have a bit of seperation from my school when I have some time off.

[Scott]

Planeman, do not feel obligated to reply to posts which you do not feel are helpful.

[planeman2012]

Thank you Scott, I'll take your advice..