Crackdown On Land Owned By Foreign Residents

[Nisa]

"Legally, the total foreign ownership of a company cannot exceed 49%, but in practice, it is often found that more than 51 percent of the shares belong to Thai nominees appointed by foreigners."

What else should they do.........leave 51% of the company in the hands of total strangers?

Thai nominees are often strangers who the foreigner has never met except possibly at the lawyers office.

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

A concept I realize could never happen but...If all "farang" would pick up and leave Thailand for a month and tourists decide to go to let's say..Cambodia, I wonder how their economy would fair...? These people need to stop and think before they bite the hands that feed them...So ignorant on their part...

[Nisa]

And of course, there will be a crackdown on all the Chinese ( Thais ) who are buying all that land for rubber plantation the produce of which will be exported to China.... I can see the might of Thailand taking on the Chinese........not haha

Exporting goods by Thai owned companies will be the death of Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

"Legally, the total foreign ownership of a company cannot exceed 49%, but in practice, it is often found that more than 51 percent of the shares belong to Thai nominees appointed by foreigners."

What else should they do.........leave 51% of the company in the hands of total strangers?

Thai nominees are often strangers who the foreigner has never met except possibly at the lawyers office.

Like wives and family or business associates? I would hazard that the vast majority of these "nominees" are on the whole very well known to the foreign entity.

Or are you seriously suggesting that international investors that invest in Thailand dig up complete strangers to sit as share owners of their companies, or most Thai wives accept having complete strangers as shareholders in companies as opposed to themselves.

I would suggest there is little or no proof to your statement.

[Nisa]

A concept I realize could never happen but...If all "farang" would pick up and leave Thailand for a month and tourists decide to go to let's say..Cambodia, I wonder how their economy would fair...? These people need to stop and think before they bite the hands that feed them...So ignorant on their part...

6% of GDP is certainly not the hand that feeds them despite our western ways of wanting believe we are superior. As for ignorant, let me know when the line forms for Cambodia and the number of foreign tourists visiting Thailand stops increasing and then I'll consider there part as being ignorant and not the other way around about the people who constantly b@tch and moan but continue to stay and visit in a country they think so little of.

[animatic]

They basically want all foreigners to be paying rent to Thais and nothing more in the rights department than importers of cash for Thailands balancer sheet. Well guess what ain't gonna happen, this will be forgotten after a month. Just like most crackdowns except those against yabaa.

And yes this is a distraction move from the Thai influencials getting caught in a Phuket land grab.

And an excuse to look up ANY title for any land worth enough to someone.

Edited March 13, 2012 by animatic

[Sateev]

I dont know what's more laughable. The regular announcement of this crackdown which all parties - including the Auditor General and his audience - know is a lot of hot air and nonsense, spouted for purely political reasons, or the hysterical over-reaction which it gets from Thai Visa members every year.

I vote for the narcissistic members who feign disdain, but can resist posting snide comments. One man, one vote.

[Nisa]

"Legally, the total foreign ownership of a company cannot exceed 49%, but in practice, it is often found that more than 51 percent of the shares belong to Thai nominees appointed by foreigners."

What else should they do.........leave 51% of the company in the hands of total strangers?

Thai nominees are often strangers who the foreigner has never met except possibly at the lawyers office.

Like wives and family or business associates? I would hazard that the vast majority of these "nominees" are on the whole very well known to the foreign entity.

Or are you seriously suggesting that international investors that invest in Thailand dig up complete strangers to sit as share owners of their companies, or most Thai wives accept having complete strangers as shareholders in companies as opposed to themselves.

I would suggest there is little or no proof to your statement.

I would suggest you do a little research on the subject and talk to foreign land investors. Getting married for the purpose of investment is not a wise move at all. The last thing you want if you are motivated in turning a profit and and investing is having a nominee around to know what you are up to and doing or how much you are making unless you want to take on a very expensive added expense. If you happen to be in a real marriage then this is fine ... not like in much of the west you don't lose half the assets you acquired during the marriage there either upon divorce.

[arrowsdawdle]

I wonder how this would effect those of us that are married to thais with children and own our primary residence that is obviously in the name of the Thai spouse. Certainly if all the paperwork was done and filed correctly then no laws were broken right? No intention to break or circumvent any laws either.

Marriage to a Thai woman legalises the purchase, children play no role in this matter.

Except.......in the last crackdown from a couple of years ago, the government said if the wife purchased the house in her name, she had to prove the origin of the money to buy the house. If a foreigner/ husband provided the money, then somehow it became fraud.

Yes, I recall this too, but the "land office" that does finalise the purchase did not, (and still does not) ask any questions regarding the Thai wife's financial funding for the purchase, thus this can not, and will not be regarded as fraud.

As a result the ownership of the property goes to the foreigner who provided the money, but he must sell the property within one year, should the sale fail, then according to the system the "state" takes on the ownership.

Selling a house here is not easy, it can take a long time, and well over a year, fortunately this legal system is not activated, and the Thai wife remains the owner, but it might be possible that the "land office" will in future make the necessary requirement to establish the financial purchase funding, and if foreign, then no sale will take place, this is a bonus for the foreigner, he can keep his cash and just pay house rental, but the Thai wife has a great disadvantage, she will not become a sole property owner with all the potential benefits after a divorce.

Finalize the purchase? Brings to mind two sage thoughts:

1. A contract in Thailand is just a pause in the negotiation.
   
2. Just 'cuz you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
   

[Arkady]

<snip> Maybe it is about time hat Thais will lose their right on landownership abroad too. It will teach them a lesson.<snip>

Like that will ever happen. Dream on...

This is already the case in certain countries that allow land ownership by foreigners on a reciprocal basis, e.g. South Korea, Taiwan and Turkey. Thais and Thai companies can't own land in those countries because they refuse to allow South Koreans, Taiwanese and Turks to own land in Thailand.

[rotorbreeze]

So what if the land is owned by the wife well before the marriage and the farang builds the house? This looks like a real can of worms that isnt going to work out well for anyone IF the pursue it....this time.

Works well for the Thai's women, seem this catching the foreignier with money and foreignier's belief life will be shared equal when a house is built on her/family property also along with the purchase of Truck in her name.... sounds nice but does'nt work with Thai Law favouring the young wife whom may have a boyfriend/Mafia chinese loan shark coaching her along in getting as much from this walking ATM machine and once the funds dry out..an accident will occure to the foreigner...sad to awaken you to this common practise...I suggest you buy the milk, ya do not need the cow to quence your needs.

[rametindallas]

How interesting. Are they afraid they going to take Pattaya or Phuket to other countries, leaving a big whole in the country with just black matter? Maybe it is about time hat Thais will lose their right on landownership abroad too. It will teach them a lesson.

There is not much fear of Thais buying land in the West because their purchases will not lead to inflated prices so that locals are unable to buy a home. This is a relatively poor country where it would be easy for foreigners of even little value to gobble up land and cause prices to sky rocket beyond the reach of all but the rich Thais.

Some places in the west don't care about such things as much and you have places such as the US where prices became insanely artificially high only to see the housing market collapse and people losing more than 50% of the value of their home to disappear overnight and being stuck owing a bank more than twice what their home is worth. Even now as prices continue to settle, home (the American dream) prices are still well beyond the reach of many.

I would love to be able to buy land outright in Thailand but I understand and agree with the policy given this country's current place in history. In fact, as I look at the prices of condos in Bangkok, I wish they would have more restrictions here too when it come to foreign ownership.

The price of land is already higher in Thailand than in the U.S. and it's because a few wealthy Thais own it all and, because they pay no property taxes, they have no incentive to sell any of it. They can afford to sit on it until someone needs it so badly they will 'pay the price'. Look at all the huge land plots sitting idle all over Bangkok and tell me it is owned by foreigners. At least foreigners would develop the land, using Thai resources, and that development would enrich the country. Right now, except for condominiums and apartments, the land market is stagnant because it is over-priced. Regular Thais have no hope of land ownership regardless of any foreign influence.

[strollling]

"Legally, the total foreign ownership of a company cannot exceed 49%, but in practice, it is often found that more than 51 percent of the shares belong to Thai nominees appointed by foreigners."

What else should they do.........leave 51% of the company in the hands of total strangers?

Thai nominees are often strangers who the foreigner has never met except possibly at the lawyers office.

And many of them don't exist at all.

[Nisa]

A number of posters have referenced their wife needing to sign a paper when buying land that the money was hers and not the foreign husband. While this is true it is also a bit misleading as it perfectly legal to loan or give your wife money for her to buy property. What is illegal is to loan or give her money to buy property "for you".

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and am speaking for conversational purposes only and anybody who takes legal advice from somebody on a forum has a lot of other issues they should address first before trying to take part in a property purchase ;-)

Edited March 13, 2012 by Nisa

[airconsult]

I wonder how this would effect those of us that are married to thais with children and own our primary residence that is obviously in the name of the Thai spouse. Certainly if all the paperwork was done and filed correctly then no laws were broken right? No intention to break or circumvent any laws either.

Marriage to a Thai woman legalises the purchase, children play no role in this matter.

Except.......in the last crackdown from a couple of years ago, the government said if the wife purchased the house in her name, she had to prove the origin of the money to buy the house. If a foreigner/ husband provided the money, then somehow it became fraud.

In my memory - that was a Minister talking out of his a*se - 2 weeks later, the Land department quietly confirmed that it *was* legal if the money was a gift. Can't be bothered to google it right now, but I believe Phuket news papers ran with the story.

[Nisa]

The price of land is already higher in Thailand than in the U.S. <snip>

?????

[Thai at Heart]

"Legally, the total foreign ownership of a company cannot exceed 49%, but in practice, it is often found that more than 51 percent of the shares belong to Thai nominees appointed by foreigners."

What else should they do.........leave 51% of the company in the hands of total strangers?

Thai nominees are often strangers who the foreigner has never met except possibly at the lawyers office.

Like wives and family or business associates? I would hazard that the vast majority of these "nominees" are on the whole very well known to the foreign entity.

Or are you seriously suggesting that international investors that invest in Thailand dig up complete strangers to sit as share owners of their companies, or most Thai wives accept having complete strangers as shareholders in companies as opposed to themselves.

I would suggest there is little or no proof to your statement.

I would suggest you do a little research on the subject and talk to foreign land investors. Getting married for the purpose of investment is not a wise move at all. The last thing you want if you are motivated in turning a profit and and investing is having a nominee around to know what you are up to and doing or how much you are making unless you want to take on a very expensive added expense. If you happen to be in a real marriage then this is fine ... not like in much of the west you don't lose half the assets you acquired during the marriage there either upon divorce.

How many foreigners in Thailand get married for the express purpose of owning land? I know the country has its benefits, but do you really believe that Johnny foreigner takes a marriage route simply because he wants to invest in something he doesnt' own?

The vast majority of small investors are foreigners married buying a house, or developing a portfolio for their family, the others are people embarking on a business venture to develop properties through a company. I know several who did this in Thailand with decent Thai business partners and made very good money for all concerned. Of course there are other horror stories, but why go down the marriage route just to buy land?

I think I can count on one finger the amount of people I have ever met who stated the got married for the sole purpose of buying property. I know Thai women can be very persuasive, but I think even the dumbest foreigner can see that one coming.

Honey, you so despelate to buy how, mally me?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Tatsujin]

So what if the land is owned by the wife well before the marriage and the farang builds the house? This looks like a real can of worms that isnt going to work out well for anyone IF the pursue it....this time.

Works well for the Thai's women, seem this catching the foreignier with money and foreignier's belief life will be shared equal when a house is built on her/family property also along with the purchase of Truck in her name.... sounds nice but does'nt work with Thai Law favouring the young wife whom may have a boyfriend/Mafia chinese loan shark coaching her along in getting as much from this walking ATM machine and once the funds dry out..an accident will occure to the foreigner...sad to awaken you to this common practise...I suggest you buy the milk, ya do not need the cow to quence your needs.

dam_n, you guys are so cynical. Do you really believe that all Thai women are like this? Perhaps you might try finding women that DON'T work in a bar then . . . you'll see another side of Thai women then.

[arrowsdawdle]

So what if the land is owned by the wife well before the marriage and the farang builds the house? This looks like a real can of worms that isnt going to work out well for anyone IF the pursue it....this time.

Works well for the Thai's women, seem this catching the foreignier with money and foreignier's belief life will be shared equal when a house is built on her/family property also along with the purchase of Truck in her name.... sounds nice but does'nt work with Thai Law favouring the young wife whom may have a boyfriend/Mafia chinese loan shark coaching her along in getting as much from this walking ATM machine and once the funds dry out..an accident will occure to the foreigner...sad to awaken you to this common practise...I suggest you buy the milk, ya do not need the cow to quence your needs.

dam_n, you guys are so cynical. Do you really believe that all Thai women are like this? Perhaps you might try finding women that DON'T work in a bar then . . . you'll see another side of Thai women then.

Thai wives and pitbulls...."But mine is different."

[Arkady]

"It was a long-standing issue that resulted from a policy in 1997 to stimulate the economy by giving a special right of land ownership to foreigners with one million US dollars, he said."

What a spectacularly ignorant and stupid man, if he really said that and wasn't misquoted by a bone-headed journalist. The "special right" in the Land Code is for foreigners who invest 40 million baht, not one million US dollars, and this most be invested in certain approved investments, some of which, notably the special property investment funds designed to bail out bankrupt property developers, no longer exist. The land entitlement is limited to one rai of land for residential use in certain restricted areas. After this amendment was promulgated it took nearly five years for the Interior Ministry to issue the necessary regulations as prescribed by the law.

It is made exceedingly difficult to utilize this law and it is very easy for officials to block it. Very few people would take the risk of trying to do this, since you have to put your money on the line to buy the land and then wait for months or years for your application to register it to be processed passing multiple outstretched hands along the way. To my knowledge no one has ever successfully been able to do it.

[airconsult]

Is it really to the point of not being able to honestly recognize facts if they don't bash Thailand or Thais?

Of near 200 countries in the World Thailand rates in the top 15 for International Tourism and or 3rd in all the Asia Pacific Region. Clearly there should be no arguing it is considered a top tourist destinations and that the number of arriving international) tourists .continues to trend up ... not down as so many people wish or want to believe.

Relax, I was not Thailand-bashing, just feeling a bit pedantic before my second cup of coffee. Thanks for the clarification, but you did see my point? TAT should never be satisfied with "Hey! we're in the top 15!!!" They should always be working for more.

And back on-topic, why should Thailand be satisfied with the current level of foreign investment, when by relaxing foreign ownership laws, that investment may turn into a flood, leading to much greater economic growth.

Or, if the wish of the Thai people is not to become richer, fair enough, how about respecting the Human Rights of foreign spouses?

Cheers

EDIT - d*mn quote bug again! Is anyone working on that?

Edited March 13, 2012 by airconsult

[spiritrace]

Obviously a lot of farangs are involved with this subject. I'll keep my ears and eyes open to see how I can protect myself. Maybe renting is the best option......

[Arkady]

Last time that Mrs Arkady deemed it necessary to acquire a few rai of land covered in trees upcountry that seemed to me to be of no obvious commercial value and is definitely never going to be occupied by foreigners, I dutifully fronted up to the Land Office to sign the declaration to waive all rights to the property, as required by ministerial regulations. The officials were all very pleasant and polite and one section head let me sit at his desk while Mrs Arkady went off to pay for some impressive looking stamps. Another official came by and asked the section head what the farang was doing sitting at his desk. The reply was, "He is here to buy land foreigners have to make a declaration before they can buy land". LOL.

I hope there will be a robust rebuttal from the Singaporean Embassy, since they were the only nationality singled out as culprits in the greedy foreign land grab. Perhaps they should question the rights of Thais to own property and businesses in their country and investigate money laundering by Thai politicians there.

[Rosco911]

No problem, after the next floods they will be giving land away to companies that stay. 70% of the companies that are still closed are moving once they receive the insurance payout. The speech to Japanese investors spoken in Thai did not go down well and in no way instilled confidence.

[strollling]

Obviously a lot of farangs are involved with this subject. I'll keep my ears and eyes open to see how I can protect myself. Maybe renting is the best option......

It's Thailand... renting is always the best option.

[trainman34014]

Meanwhile back at HQ, the brains behind this 'crackdown' are already planning the next one because there is nothing else to do, apart from perhaps thinking up how Thailand can become yet another 'Hub' for something. I think it's time for a 'Crackdown on Hubs' !

[ableguy]

Second class Citizens again....

When were you not here ?

[theanimaster]

OmFg... Thais will have no land to live on~! So let's flood more of them out of the north of Bangkok so that we can sell the land to foreign companies... oh wait... where were we again?

[khunkeith]

Saving the land for future generations of Thai people? What about saving the land in England for future generations of English people?

What are English people? Seems that they are Indian, Pakistani, Caribbean, African, you name it. So who are Thai people? Is Thaksin Thai people? Just a thought.

The Brits are paying the price for that global empire they once had. Canada is full of Indians and Hong Kong Chinese because they could freely immigrate through the empire.

[witsawakorn]

Why not go after Thais that allowed and profited from the illegal land holdings as well? Don't bother to respond, we all know the answer...

Maybe because they didn't break the law?