Red Shirt Leader Arisman, Charged With Terrorism, Reports To Court On Return From India

[Buchholz]

The eventual reality of this is that they will never be able to make terrorism stick as a charge, so he will get off scot free. Would have been far smarter to get him on something else.

We'll see if he gets off the terrorism charge. The prosecution could easily have evidence that's not been made public yet.

Incidentally, Arisaman faces a myriad of charges, not only terrorism, going back to Black Songkran 2009, as well as storming Parliament and leading a raid on the Thaicom satellite station in 2010.

Now then, if he gets off on ALL of the lengthy roster of charges he faces, that would be really something.

.

Hopefully, they will get him for something, eventually, in my lifetime, but I won't hold my breath waiting......

This is the system here, it moves at a snails pace or as quick as a whip depending on who is in power, we all know it, TIT.

Yes, it is.

Some day the Red Shirt Leaders will actually face their charges related to their 2007 riot.

.

[pimay11]

I imagine that when it does go to court, there will be quite a few protesters outside holding posters

"WE DUN NUFFINK RONG"

Probably another 300,000 reds. I'm sure our resident red supporter will be there taking pictures and post on TVF to support his estimate.

Edited March 14, 2012 by pimay11

[theanimaster]

I'm surprised that he was allowed to leave the country in the first place.

Oh wait... no. I'm not.

[Breville]

Banish him to Dubai with the other nut case !

[phiphidon]

Well, they all got very excited there for a while, so yes terrorism isn't the right charge, but anyway, one would think having an open charge of terrorism wouldn't grant you bail either, but then again, murderers get bail here too.

And alleged murderers can go and sit on the opposition bench as well and nobody bats an eyelid.

I guess you refer to k. Abhisit 'kill me some red-shirts'?

BTW with my limited understanding of this strange language called 'english', having been charged and being alleged is not really the same. I mean I may allege our dear member PPD is a bit of a fool, but that's not the same as there being a court case where that 'accusation' is discussed.

PS I had to remove some of the quote with the forum front-end complaining. I saw some text which seemed to move when replying. New front-end, BIG improvement.

ADD: being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad, even if the alleged perpetrator wants to go on pilgrimage.

I love the way that you play up the dear uncle "persona" and then insult people with your "I may allege" but "thats not the same as saying". I'd be more impressed if you had the balls just to call me a fool or whatever instead of hiding behind your "I'm only a Dutch man with little understanding of the nuances of the english language" bs. I might even have some respect. Whatever.

As far as my post is concerned if you had bothered to even read the link I provided you would have found out the mention was regarding democrat mp Khanchit who has been charged with pre meditated murder in front of approximately 8-10 eye witnesses (rather a lot to buy off) but is still eligible (and had the gall) to attend parliament after arrest. No bail required apparently and not a word from abhisit.

But you obviously didn't read it or find any more information out for yourself but instead come up with knee jerk insults.

As to your last comment , again if you read the OP you would have found out that it is possible to "be on bail" and "travel abroad" if that permission is given as a bail condition, so it follows that being on bail you can travel abroad. May I suggest a little more time spent reading before reacting?

[phiphidon]

Quite astounded that India will take a man who is accused of terrorism.....

Possibly because if and until he is found guilty (outside of the court of TV) he is regarded as innocent of those charges in most parts of the world

That is only in a set of laws.Not in any intelligent person's head.

It will be interesting to see which of our forum Thaksin apologists openly come out of the woodwork to provide any shred of cover for Arisman. Now we have at least one. One would think that shredding any claim to credibility would be a deterrent, but maybe only tatters left anyway.

I take it you have a problem with the "being innocent until proven guilty" concept held throughout most of the world.

If my claim to credibility rested on supporting the opposite to this reasonable tenet I'd quite expect it to be in shreds. I'm not sure how you can be at ease with that mindset.

[rubl]

Well, they all got very excited there for a while, so yes terrorism isn't the right charge, but anyway, one would think having an open charge of terrorism wouldn't grant you bail either, but then again, murderers get bail here too.

And alleged murderers can go and sit on the opposition bench as well and nobody bats an eyelid.

I guess you refer to k. Abhisit 'kill me some red-shirts'?

BTW with my limited understanding of this strange language called 'english', having been charged and being alleged is not really the same. I mean I may allege our dear member PPD is a bit of a fool, but that's not the same as there being a court case where that 'accusation' is discussed.

PS I had to remove some of the quote with the forum front-end complaining. I saw some text which seemed to move when replying. New front-end, BIG improvement.

ADD: being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad, even if the alleged perpetrator wants to go on pilgrimage.

I love the way that you play up the dear uncle "persona" and then insult people with your "I may allege" but "thats not the same as saying". I'd be more impressed if you had the balls just to call me a fool or whatever instead of hiding behind your "I'm only a Dutch man with little understanding of the nuances of the english language" bs. I might even have some respect. Whatever.

As far as my post is concerned if you had bothered to even read the link I provided you would have found out the mention was regarding democrat mp Khanchit who has been charged with pre meditated murder in front of approximately 8-10 eye witnesses (rather a lot to buy off) but is still eligible (and had the gall) to attend parliament after arrest. No bail required apparently and not a word from abhisit.

But you obviously didn't read it or find any more information out for yourself but instead come up with knee jerk insults.

As to your last comment , again if you read the OP you would have found out that it is possible to "be on bail" and "travel abroad" if that permission is given as a bail condition, so it follows that being on bail you can travel abroad. May I suggest a little more time spent reading before reacting?

The OP is about k. Arisman, a UDD leader who has been charged and freed on bail. It seems he asked and received permission to travel abroad, even being charged and bailed in three or four different cases. That's not automatic and why I wrote "being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad". Anyway, legal system works. One may wonder though how k. Arisman managed to get a visa for India, but that's a different matter.

As for the Dem's MP charged with murder still being MP and attending parliament. Well, parliamentary immunity probably, like a few Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng. Politicians, different rules and regulations.

BTW being Dutch I speak Dutch with being a Dutch uncle and speaking double Dutch coming natural to me. Playing a fool I never managed successfully.

[animatic]

The eventual reality of this is that they will never be able to make terrorism stick as a charge, so he will get off scot free. Would have been far smarter to get him on something else.

Lese Majeste?

Whatever they get him for, I really don't mind, but as I said, chasing him on terrorism charges was always going to be a difficult one.

They convicted the Imam in Bali of terrorism for encouraging others to set the bombs,

there is nothing fundamentally different with what Arisaman has done publicly.

[Buchholz]

The eventual reality of this is that they will never be able to make terrorism stick as a charge, so he will get off scot free. Would have been far smarter to get him on something else.

Lese Majeste?

Whatever they get him for, I really don't mind, but as I said, chasing him on terrorism charges was always going to be a difficult one.

They convicted the Imam in Bali of terrorism for encouraging others to set the bombs,

there is nothing fundamentally different with what Arisaman has done publicly.

The difference was that Arisaman, ironically, listed thousands of targets in the form of Muslim mosques, as opposed to the handful of targets the Muslim Imam did.

Incidentally, the Imam was executed by firing squad on November 9, 2008.

.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Buchholz

[ratcatcher]

Arisman stood in front cameras and microphones in front of thousands of Red Shirt supporters and incited them to burn Bangkok to the ground including a list of targets the first of which was a very significant site.

How is this any different from a man with an M16 gunning down a crowd of 50 people in a market and saying "I did it, here's the gun"?

One is terrorism, the other mass murder. Both are surely guilty?

[tlansford]

Well, they all got very excited there for a while, so yes terrorism isn't the right charge, but anyway, one would think having an open charge of terrorism wouldn't grant you bail either, but then again, murderers get bail here too.

Please review the video of Arisman exhorting the crowd to commit arson as a political tool, and then explain to me why you consider this not to be terrorism.

More to the point, why does a person on bail for terrorism, and with a past history of fleeing to avoid charges, have a passport and why was he allowed to leave the country for ANY reason?

or explain why he came back...

[rubl]

Well, they all got very excited there for a while, so yes terrorism isn't the right charge, but anyway, one would think having an open charge of terrorism wouldn't grant you bail either, but then again, murderers get bail here too.

Please review the video of Arisman exhorting the crowd to commit arson as a political tool, and then explain to me why you consider this not to be terrorism.

More to the point, why does a person on bail for terrorism, and with a past history of fleeing to avoid charges, have a passport and why was he allowed to leave the country for ANY reason?

or explain why he came back...

K. Arisman gave his word as UDD leader and gentleman that he would return after his trip. Furthermore he wanted the bond of THB 600,000 he had to deposit, returned to him

[Mosha]

Well, they all got very excited there for a while, so yes terrorism isn't the right charge, but anyway, one would think having an open charge of terrorism wouldn't grant you bail either, but then again, murderers get bail here too.

Please review the video of Arisman exhorting the crowd to commit arson as a political tool, and then explain to me why you consider this not to be terrorism.

More to the point, why does a person on bail for terrorism, and with a past history of fleeing to avoid charges, have a passport and why was he allowed to leave the country for ANY reason?

or explain why he came back...

K. Arisman gave his word as UDD leader and gentleman that he would return after his trip. Furthermore he wanted the bond of THB 600,000 he had to deposit, returned to him

Money talks

[phiphidon]

The OP is about k. Arisman, a UDD leader who has been charged and freed on bail. It seems he asked and received permission to travel abroad, even being charged and bailed in three or four different cases. That's not automatic and why I wrote "being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad". Anyway, legal system works. One may wonder though how k. Arisman managed to get a visa for India, but that's a different matter.

As for the Dem's MP charged with murder still being MP and attending parliament. Well, parliamentary immunity probably, like a few Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng. Politicians, different rules and regulations.

BTW being Dutch I speak Dutch with being a Dutch uncle and speaking double Dutch coming natural to me. Playing a fool I never managed successfully.

You could have fooled me, rudeness seems quite natural to you.

I'm not aware that "figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng" have ever been charged with premeditated murder. Dress it as you like Abhisit tends to have skewed viewpoints on what is and what is not acceptable - presumably that is why he is no longer PM after being finally faced with public opinion.

Edited March 14, 2012 by phiphidon

[yoshiwara]

The OP is about k. Arisman, a UDD leader who has been charged and freed on bail. It seems he asked and received permission to travel abroad, even being charged and bailed in three or four different cases. That's not automatic and why I wrote "being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad". Anyway, legal system works. One may wonder though how k. Arisman managed to get a visa for India, but that's a different matter.

As for the Dem's MP charged with murder still being MP and attending parliament. Well, parliamentary immunity probably, like a few Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng. Politicians, different rules and regulations.

BTW being Dutch I speak Dutch with being a Dutch uncle and speaking double Dutch coming natural to me. Playing a fool I never managed successfully.

You could have fooled me, rudeness seems quite natural to you.

I'm not aware that "figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng" have ever been charged with premeditated murder. Dress it as you like Abhisit tends to have skewed viewpoints on what is and what is not acceptable - presumably that is why he is no longer PM after being finally faced with public opinion.

Some Thaksin apologists seem to think that the open thug activities of the reds, including Arisman's exhortations to burn down Bangkok got a free pass with the election. I'll re-phrase that. All of the Thaksin cheerleaders openly try to push the idea that the violent red leadership should be exonerated as a result of the election. A dishonest position but we wouldn't expect anything less.

[hyperdimension]

It will be interesting to see which of our forum Thaksin apologists openly come out of the woodwork to provide any shred of cover for Arisman.

Arisman is CalgaryII's hero:

I recall one incident during R'song, when coupist legislators were busy legislating coup stuff. UDD/Red shirts deemed one particular egregious piece of legislation as requiring confrontation. They sent a group of red Shirts to Parliament to do just that.

But their lack of success finally frustrated the Red Shirt leaders to the point they sent Arisman over. Within a very short timeframe, the Red Shirts were in the face of the coupist legislators.

Dam_n, he was effective, and explains why he is my hero.

During the recent confimation of Thida as the head of the UDD, Arisman's name came up as an alternative.

That would'ev put the 'cat amongst the pigeons"

[tlansford]

Well, they all got very excited there for a while, so yes terrorism isn't the right charge, but anyway, one would think having an open charge of terrorism wouldn't grant you bail either, but then again, murderers get bail here too.

Please review the video of Arisman exhorting the crowd to commit arson as a political tool, and then explain to me why you consider this not to be terrorism.

More to the point, why does a person on bail for terrorism, and with a past history of fleeing to avoid charges, have a passport and why was he allowed to leave the country for ANY reason?

or explain why he came back...

K. Arisman gave his word as UDD leader and gentleman that he would return after his trip. Furthermore he wanted the bond of THB 600,000 he had to deposit, returned to him

Actually, I am waiting for Ozmick...

[tlansford]

- sniper -

Please review the video of Arisman exhorting the crowd to commit arson as a political tool, and then explain to me why you consider this not to be terrorism.

More to the point, why does a person on bail for terrorism, and with a past history of fleeing to avoid charges, have a passport and why was he allowed to leave the country for ANY reason?

or explain why he came back...

K. Arisman gave his word as UDD leader and gentleman that he would return after his trip. Furthermore he wanted the bond of THB 600,000 he had to deposit, returned to him

Money talks

15,000€ ?

A small price to pay if he didn't want to go to court.

[Mosha]

^ or 2000 days pay to Somchai public.

[tlansford]

^ or 2000 days pay to Somchai public.

relevance?

"Somchai" isn't posting his bail. Arisman is.

[animatic]

The OP is about k. Arisman, a UDD leader who has been charged and freed on bail. It seems he asked and received permission to travel abroad, even being charged and bailed in three or four different cases. That's not automatic and why I wrote "being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad". Anyway, legal system works. One may wonder though how k. Arisman managed to get a visa for India, but that's a different matter.

As for the Dem's MP charged with murder still being MP and attending parliament. Well, parliamentary immunity probably, like a few Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng. Politicians, different rules and regulations.

BTW being Dutch I speak Dutch with being a Dutch uncle and speaking double Dutch coming natural to me. Playing a fool I never managed successfully.

You could have fooled me, rudeness seems quite natural to you.

I'm not aware that "figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng" have ever been charged with premeditated murder. Dress it as you like Abhisit tends to have skewed viewpoints on what is and what is not acceptable - presumably that is why he is no longer PM after being finally faced with public opinion.

Funny, I don't remember Abhisit charging any of these people with anything.

He was governing, the police and Attorney General deal with charging people for crimes.

But why let facts and logic get in the way of a good rant.

[rubl]

The OP is about k. Arisman, a UDD leader who has been charged and freed on bail. It seems he asked and received permission to travel abroad, even being charged and bailed in three or four different cases. That's not automatic and why I wrote "being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad". Anyway, legal system works. One may wonder though how k. Arisman managed to get a visa for India, but that's a different matter.

As for the Dem's MP charged with murder still being MP and attending parliament. Well, parliamentary immunity probably, like a few Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng. Politicians, different rules and regulations.

BTW being Dutch I speak Dutch with being a Dutch uncle and speaking double Dutch coming natural to me. Playing a fool I never managed successfully.

You could have fooled me, rudeness seems quite natural to you.

I'm not aware that "figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng" have ever been charged with premeditated murder. Dress it as you like Abhisit tends to have skewed viewpoints on what is and what is not acceptable - presumably that is why he is no longer PM after being finally faced with public opinion.

Your comment is beside the point. Whatever k. Abhisit may find acceptable or not, MPs have a parliamentary immunity. When Dr. weng, and Nattawut/Jatuporn wanted to wave their right of immunity they were even voted down in parliament. Furthermore I didn't say that all those MPs were charged for murder. As you know the Pheu Thai MP's were only charged for terrorism

Edited March 14, 2012 by rubl

[rubl]

^ or 2000 days pay to Somchai public.

relevance?

"Somchai" isn't posting his bail. Arisman is.

Strictly speaking k. Arisman is out on bail in three or four cases. Probably close to THB 10 million in total by now. The THB 600,000 deposit was one of the conditions on which he received permission to go to India for a short while. He returned, so this deposit has been returned to him.

[phiphidon]

The OP is about k. Arisman, a UDD leader who has been charged and freed on bail. It seems he asked and received permission to travel abroad, even being charged and bailed in three or four different cases. That's not automatic and why I wrote "being out on bail is not the same as being able to travel abroad". Anyway, legal system works. One may wonder though how k. Arisman managed to get a visa for India, but that's a different matter.

As for the Dem's MP charged with murder still being MP and attending parliament. Well, parliamentary immunity probably, like a few Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng. Politicians, different rules and regulations.

BTW being Dutch I speak Dutch with being a Dutch uncle and speaking double Dutch coming natural to me. Playing a fool I never managed successfully.

You could have fooled me, rudeness seems quite natural to you.

I'm not aware that "figures like k. Nattawut, Jaruporn, Dr. weng" have ever been charged with premeditated murder. Dress it as you like Abhisit tends to have skewed viewpoints on what is and what is not acceptable - presumably that is why he is no longer PM after being finally faced with public opinion.

Funny, I don't remember Abhisit charging any of these people with anything.

He was governing, the police and Attorney General deal with charging people for crimes.

But why let facts and logic get in the way of a good rant.

Before jumping to conclusions please read carefully. I didn't say anything about abhisit charging those people. I was talking about abhisits silence over having a democrat mp, charged with premeditated murder, sitting in parliament. But don't let a misreading get in the way of a good rant

[Thaddeus]

I'm going to ask one very simple question.

A man is caught on video inciting violence, promoting torching a major capital.

Forget this innocent until proven guilty crap.... and ooh let the courts decide,... it is as plain as the nose on your face, this man is a thug, nothing more, and a thug that is more than willing to sacrifice anything but himself.

And the question is this..... by defending him, do you feel better about yourself?

I know I wouldn't.

[nurofiend]

saying if the government attacks us, we will respond by attacking places sensitive to the government, is nothing new in heated anti-government rallies.

he was saying if ye hurt us, ye will suffer the consequences... terrorism? pffft

also pad leaders have also made statements that could incite violence, yet i don't hear people calling them thugs or anything negative whatsoever.. and that's the bs of you people.

Edited March 14, 2012 by nurofiend

[OzMick]

Most of the places Arisman listed were more sensitive to the people of Thailand than the government.

You may also note that PAD members are going to jail for their actions. when Arisman joins them, we will quietly forget him also, hopefully for a couple of decades.

The good news is that when that happens, Dubai (more likely Cambodia) might get a few members of the government performing their function from afar.

[Thaddeus]

Most of the places Arisman listed were more sensitive to the people of Thailand than the government.

You may also note that PAD members are going to jail for their actions. when Arisman joins them, we will quietly forget him also, hopefully for a couple of decades.

Quite.

[animatic]

It will be interesting to see which of our forum Thaksin apologists openly come out of the woodwork to provide any shred of cover for Arisman.

Arisman is CalgaryII's hero:

I recall one incident during R'song, when coupist legislators were busy legislating coup stuff. UDD/Red shirts deemed one particular egregious piece of legislation as requiring confrontation. They sent a group of red Shirts to Parliament to do just that.

But their lack of success finally frustrated the Red Shirt leaders to the point they sent Arisman over. Within a very short timeframe, the Red Shirts were in the face of the coupist legislators.

Dam_n, he was effective, and explains why he is my hero.

During the recent confimation of Thida as the head of the UDD, Arisman's name came up as an alternative.

That would'ev put the 'cat amongst the pigeons"

These comments are so over the top into fantasy land it i

'cat amongst the pigeons"" More like 'the blind leading the dead'

and wondering why they are so hard to pull along.

Edited March 15, 2012 by animatic

[phiphidon]

Most of the places Arisman listed were more sensitive to the people of Thailand than the government.

You may also note that PAD members are going to jail for their actions. when Arisman joins them, we will quietly forget him also, hopefully for a couple of decades.

Quite.

As far as I am aware the only PAD member in jail is Veera Somkwamkid and that is a Cambodian one. The rest are on bail waiting to appeal their sentences I believe, even Sondhi who faces 20 years in jail (as if). I'm anxious for people to tell me otherwise.

Compare and contrast with Red Shirt supporters.

Edited March 15, 2012 by phiphidon