Students Have To Work Hard To Get Quality Education: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Students have to work hard to get quality education

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- New activist group highlights sexual abuse, large class sizes, misleading information on courses and poor teaching standards as major problems in colleges and universities

The first challenge for college students is perhaps to protect their right to receive a quality education in a supportive environment that provides them with fair treatment.

U-Rights, a network of university students, is a new effort to form a collective force to protect student rights. U-Rights has reported various kinds of abuses that college students have faced on college campuses, and the network has successfully gained exposure through the media because its concerns connect with both students and parents alike.

Students should be able to blossom intellectually during their three- to four-year experience in university or college. However, some students say they have been unfairly treated. During a recent TV programme on which U-Rights representatives appeared, a group of students shared stories of how their rights have been violated. One student claimed she was sexually harassed. Another female student suspected that a particular lecturer had graded students based on their looks.

Another student spent four years at the faculty of associated medical science at an undisclosed university only to find that the faculty had not yet been accredited.

One student said he enrolled in a university that claimed to be part of an international English-language college, but the college offered only 30 per cent of the courses in English.

Another student complained that his classes were too big for the lecturers to pay necessary attention to all students.

These allegations will have to be further investigated because they all affect the learning environment. While educators discuss how to improve the deteriorating quality of our education system, the issues raised by these students should be immediate pointers for those in authority to begin tackling.

The collective action of these students has attracted the attention of the public and of the Office of the Higher Education Commission (OHEC), which has offered to help look into the problems and allegations. At the very least, the OHEC should look into the complaints from students who feel that they have not received a quality education as promised.

These complaints can be categorised into those against individuals and those against particular institutions as a whole. For instance, a number of students have lodged sexual harassment complaints against individual lecturers. If any of these cases are found to be true, those who have violated the rights and dignity of students must be punished to set an example that the university body will no longer tolerate such behaviour.

In addition, there are complaints against institutions, such as the failure to deliver on the quality or content of courses as advertised. Quite a number of students complain about large class sizes and lack of attention from lecturers, as well as the quality of teaching. Some university lecturers have other distractions, such as publishing papers to upgrade their academic status, and this is another problem that students sometimes feel aggrieved about.

These issues need to be well heeded and urgently rectified. The education authorities need to do all in their power to help educational institutes improve their standards because, ultimately, they are accountable for letting below-par education continue unaddressed.

The voices of these disaffected students should be heard, and they should continue to put pressure on the educational institutes that are happy to take their hard-earned fees while providing less than promised in their promotional literature.

At any rate, U-Rights shows how students can form a forceful body to protect themselves and improve the quality of education. All college and university students should take note, become aware of their rights and speak up for themselves.

-- The Nation 2012-03-16

[AZBill]

Of course they should be graded based on looks! In this country their future jobs, promotions and professional standing will all be based on that so why not get them used to it. When will they learn that what you know is of no use here. Silly students!

[givenall]

As I am reading this article, and waiting for my student to get here. It is 30 min late and only one student out of 10 is here.

Well this is a typical class I have had for past 3 years teaching in this university. But it seem that the student are ok with this and more over the university is ok with it and they continue to pass the student with substandard education. So is not just the student, the problem is mostly the educators that only care about money

[KKvampire]

Another Thai official who should know better,students know they get their useless degree paper whatever work ,effort or studying they do,its just the same old merry go round in the country

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[belg]

we can all see from movies how students blossom in the US on the campus, beer, drugs and sex parties at 1 million baht or more per year

[scorecard]

As I am reading this article, and waiting for my student to get here. It is 30 min late and only one student out of 10 is here.

Well this is a typical class I have had for past 3 years teaching in this university. But it seem that the student are ok with this and more over the university is ok with it and they continue to pass the student with substandard education. So is not just the student, the problem is mostly the educators that only care about money

I don't doubt your words at all. On the other hand there are Thai universities which have the opposite attitude to punctuality. One example, where I teach in some semesters:

- Students must attend 90% of classes or cannot sit for final semester exam (similar rules for mid-term exam). Absent more than twice in a row without an acceptable written explanation plus evidence of hospital bill / report etc.,also cannot sit for exams. Parent cannot write the note. Shopping in Hong Kong not accepted (this was tried by one girl and she included the boarding pass stubs as evidence.)

- Attendance for about 70% of classes monitor by admin. dept staff, who leave promptly five minutes after scheduled start time. If you arrive late you can attend class (but more rules apply) but you cannot be marked at present and any assignment work you hand in later, related to that class, cannot be included in grade calculations.

- Other 30% of classes the lecturer marks the role, but wouldn't dare mark people present who have arrived more than 5 minutes late because of backlash from the punctual students. Several lecturers always organize for the maid to be there 5 minutes after scheduled start time to promptly take the roll documents back to the admin. office.

- Some lecturers add another rule. Arrive back late after break and you 'present' status for that lecture is reversed to absent for the whole lecture. Many lecturers 'monitor' this by locking the door 2 or 3 minutes after break time has finished and it stays locked for the rest of the class.

On the other hand I have an example (different university) where the unqualified lecturer arrives 30 minutes late for every 2 hour class, then gives one student the handout notes (written by hand and never more than approx half of one A4 page) to get copied for all of the class (15 minutes further delay). And she always leaves 20 to 30 minutes early. Why? She has to get to her shop at MBK. Her uncle is the president of the university. Students at this institute have held numerous rallies for decades about the blatant corruption, poor quality of lecturers, etc.

Edited March 16, 2012 by scorecard

[anterian]

As a retired teacher I am totally bored with these regular discussions on the Thai education system. With few exceptions it is total crap. The Thais are slowly becoming aware of this, but a few generations too late.

[givenall]

we can all see from movies how students blossom in the US on the campus, beer, drugs and sex parties at 1 million baht or more per year

I don’t doubt your observation, but the differences are in the statics, but the results speak for itself, majorities of US student succeed, and majorities of Thai, fail.

[Reasonableman]

Of course they should be graded based on looks! In this country their future jobs, promotions and professional standing will all be based on that so why not get them used to it. When will they learn that what you know is of no use here. Silly students!

For the good-lookers, no need for school at all then, so put them out to work and free up spaces for the unlovely but academically able. We need doctors, vets, [lawyers], accountants, engineers, etc., as well, to ease the lifestyle of the lovelies

Edited March 16, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Unkomoncents]

we can all see from movies how students blossom in the US on the campus, beer, drugs and sex parties at 1 million baht or more per year

Because movies (especially the Hollywood variety) are perfect representations of real life. Later today I'll be hanging with Optimus Prime before we go single-handedly save the universe.

[Unkomoncents]

This article isn't nearly as bad as some of the other recent education "editorials" (in quotes because editorial in name only; nonsensical rant would often be a more appropriate description). Only at the end does it launch into the standard Thai explanation for why education in the Kingdom is so bad: teaching quality. There are tons of bad, bad teachers in Thailand, but that is obviously more a function of the total zeitgeist in Thailand (non-results-oriented culture, bad benefits, conditions, salaries, management, students, career development, and the list goes on and on). It's also obvious that the evaluators of such "bad" (vague) teachers are the students. This would be like, if you were evaluating problems with your military, allowing the new recruits to grade their senior officers. I think student evaluations should be considered seriously, but I've taught in the US, South America, South Korea, and Thailand, and while US students are the worst-behaved, Thai students are without a doubt the most difficult to teach. This is, in most cases, a function of the deeper culture. It's very difficult to teach people who are convinced, and have been trained to believe, that they are perfect in every endeavor they undertake from the moment of conception.

[sprq]

I have a doubtless rather skewed view of Thai education. As a university teacher of English in the 1980s at Chula and Mahidol, I was given mostly the medical students to teach, who are usually the most intelligent of all. They were attentive, hard-working and committed, getting good results on carefully monitored tests. That was the cream of the crop at the best Thai universities, and the reason that health care is pretty good in Thailand compared to other countries of similar development level.

As to the general level of education provision in Thailand, it does seem to be dire, although surely not quite as dire as some commenters are saying.

[Bakeman]

I believe there are hard worker students and slacker students in every culture and in every country. The exposure to the variety of students is by chance hence each of us will have our own inferences. Chok dee for your exposure. LOL

[Unkomoncents]

I believe there are hard worker students and slacker students in every culture and in every country. The exposure to the variety of students is by chance hence each of us will have our own inferences. Chok dee for your exposure. LOL

I think most would agree that there is at least one hard worker and one "slacker" in every culture and country. I also infer from your comments that each person's observations/opinions are of equal value and that therefore there are no clearer/better/more informed perspectives. There certainly wouldn't be any reason to go to school then, because all people's opinions/observations/perspectives are of equal value. It's a dream come true. There are no more "experts". My opinions on the subject of climate change are now as valuable as any scientist's. Does everyone agree with this assessment (because it could be a real game-changer)? I'd like a job with NASA ASAP...

[Payboy]

Students have to work hard to get quality education

What's this world coming to?

[Diverse]

Absolutely typical of the Thai students mentality. Blame everyone but themselves for being ignorant, want it all, and intellectually challenged.

Oh I am going to fail. Report the lecturer for sexual harrasment.

Oh I am an hour late. Report the lecturer for being in the right classroom.

Oh I failed this test. Report the lecturer for teaching the wrong answers.

Oh I have been given detention. Report the lecturer for bullying.

Blame, blame, blame everyone and everything but themselves. When are they going to wake up and discover that the world does not owe them a living and that like others in the world excepting china they will actually have to put some work in to get that degree that is only recognised in many other countries as the equivalant of a high school education.

A Thai masters degree is the equivalent of an university entrance exam in the UK so why do they call themselves professor?

Yours digusted with the whole thai education mentality, s*** runs downhill expecially from the Thai education minister.

[bigbamboo]

I have a doubtless rather skewed view of Thai education. As a university teacher of English in the 1980s at Chula and Mahidol, I was given mostly the medical students to teach, who are usually the most intelligent of all. They were attentive, hard-working and committed, getting good results on carefully monitored tests. That was the cream of the crop at the best Thai universities, and the reason that health care is pretty good in Thailand compared to other countries of similar development level.

As to the general level of education provision in Thailand, it does seem to be dire, although surely not quite as dire as some commenters are saying.

I would also go along with your assessment of the commitment of medical students. This is primarily because for them medicine is a serious vocation and career choice and they are not attending university just to pick up the obligatory degree.

[Reasonableman]

Lecturers who cannot speak fluent English, recycled teaching materials, talking heads/videos, frequently cancelled classes, excessive numbers of extra-curricular activities, postgraduate students being treated like high-school students, overcrowding, antiquated lecture-based non-participatory teaching methods, inconsistent assessments, the list goes on and on... glad they are standing up and trying to get real value for the time, effort, and money these students invest.

[Grumbles]

If the Education Dept. seriously wants to improve standards, the first thing to do would be to abolish the 'no fail' system.

The sooner the students realize that if they don't come to class, if they don't do their work or sit their exams, they will have to repeat that year. The sooner the students will either seriously try or leave school. (No great loss).

Move on from there. Don't try to do too much at once.

[bigbamboo]

If the Education Dept. seriously wants to improve standards, the first thing to do would be to abolish the 'no fail' system.

The sooner the students realize that if they don't come to class, if they don't do their work or sit their exams, they will have to repeat that year. The sooner the students will either seriously try or leave school. (No great loss).

Move on from there. Don't try to do too much at once.

Doubt that will happen. A former PM once claimed that Thailand had the best university education in Asia as it had the highest percentage of students who obtained a degree.

Edited March 16, 2012 by bigbamboo

[backtonormal]

If the Education Dept. seriously wants to improve standards, the first thing to do would be to abolish the 'no fail' system.

The sooner the students realize that if they don't come to class, if they don't do their work or sit their exams, they will have to repeat that year. The sooner the students will either seriously try or leave school. (No great loss).

Move on from there. Don't try to do too much at once.

No Fail is the issue that will open many doors the Education sytem does not want opening. I have just witnessed two students complete a Thai multiple choice exam without opening the question paper and putting crosses anywhere on the answer sheet. They know they will never fail...and they where 8 yrs old. I spent two periods giving M3 students questions and answers and still 3 students got less than 5/40 but I had to pass them because if you dont their parents take them to another school and thats 200,000 baht not filling the coffers next semester. Abolishing 'no fail' 'for all schools and stopping them from moving to other local schools other than for very defined reasons will make teachers lives that much easier but it may start to identify who are the bad teachers when parents start asking questions... Sorry was dreaming of Utopia, I am awake now

[theanimaster]

I used to think there was a case with large class sizes, but not anymore. It's not the class sizes but the TEACHERS. Teachers aren't given any competent teaching assistants (in highschools there aren't any TAs in sight!!) or are just incompetent themselves at handling large class sizes. TES has an interesting article on class sizes and there's been some interesting research into it.

But of course, it's easy to just blame large class sizes.

[theanimaster]

If the Education Dept. seriously wants to improve standards, the first thing to do would be to abolish the 'no fail' system.

The sooner the students realize that if they don't come to class, if they don't do their work or sit their exams, they will have to repeat that year. The sooner the students will either seriously try or leave school. (No great loss).

Move on from there. Don't try to do too much at once.

Does anyone by chance have a link to the SPECIFIC law that says NO ONE ~CAN~ fail?

[theanimaster]

"At any rate, U-Rights shows how students can form a forceful body to protect themselves and improve the quality of education. All college and university students should take note, become aware of their rights and speak up for themselves."

Before they do that, they should read an interesting dissertation by Sarayuth Poolsup titled "Educational politics in Thailand: a case of the 1999 National Education Act". Granted, it's a little over 200 pages long, they might not make it past the first 2 chapters.

Google's your friend.

[yoshiwara]

The moral hazard of the 'no failure' policy (policy? is it a policy?) is great for students and staff who would rather be thinking about going shopping or sex or whatever. If it was removed the education ministry would blow up in the great results breakdown, particularly if all the exams were externally assessed. Whether a poison or a drug it isn't going anywhere soon. Better to study/lecture elsewhere. If you have a choice try to exercise it.

[cup-O-coffee]

Quality education? Does the author have any idea of the meaning of that term?

In a land where the art of deceiving, lying and telling half-truths is a cultural reality and condoned, I am compelled not to believe any of this OP.

I know a lot of "educated" natives. Having an education is like saying that one is on a diet. What one puts in their mind is a lot like what one puts in their belly. The defining words that a Thai might use to describe "quality" would probably amount to something completely different than developed countries. No, I simply cannot trust it when a Thai screams "not fair".

[Reasonableman]

Of course not, but it is real. Student failure=system failure, and that looks bad. A personal experience. Just one of many.

I used to test the English language ability of Thai civil servants seeking promotion. Did so for several years, some were passable some good, some great. They deserved to pass, at different grading levels. Then, one day, I was asked to test one person who could clearly not read or write intelligible English or maintain even a very basic conversation. I failed this person. Well, I was never asked to test another after that. Why bother with the charade? Just pass everyone and save time and stress for all involved.

If the Education Dept. seriously wants to improve standards, the first thing to do would be to abolish the 'no fail' system.

The sooner the students realize that if they don't come to class, if they don't do their work or sit their exams, they will have to repeat that year. The sooner the students will either seriously try or leave school. (No great loss).

Move on from there. Don't try to do too much at once.

Does anyone by chance have a link to the SPECIFIC law that says NO ONE ~CAN~ fail?

[osiboy]

As I am reading this article, and waiting for my student to get here. It is 30 min late and only one student out of 10 is here.

Well this is a typical class I have had for past 3 years teaching in this university. But it seem that the student are ok with this and more over the university is ok with it and they continue to pass the student with substandard education. So is not just the student, the problem is mostly the educators that only care about money

not teaching english are you ?

[quandow]

My dentist (in Pattaya) was trained in the U.S. I would NEVER trust a locally-trained dentist or surgeon

[cup-O-coffee]

My dentist (in Pattaya) was trained in the U.S. I would NEVER trust a locally-trained dentist or surgeon

Education, in whichever form, is like change; it is constant!

The only thing about organized education is that you can divert the irrevocable education that one gains through a life without tutelage. How this is accomplished can be illustrated through history and text.

Organized education is nothing more than tutoring. Like the grape vine; you tend it, or it straggles and bears no fruit.

It begins with the first ones who bring that life into this world.

We should not depend upon government or religion to take up the slack that mother and father abandoned. Not even the animals of the wild do this; and if they do, then the little ones have the benefit of genetics and survive however they can. It's not like this in the human environment, or otherwise we are no better than the beasts of the field and should call it a day!

If this is not accomplished, then that life form will go where there is least resistance.

Life shows us that only the strong overcome and achieve through hard times and being able to live through it and become a better person through forgiveness and honesty to one's self at one's mistakes. Forgiveness towards one's self, and honesty with one's self to try again with a new approach.

No human is born with the realization to overcome and achieve. It must be taught by other humans who have history to show us our mistakes. If this is not done, then it is easy to watch the vine straggle and collect the proceeds like the scum we have corrupted ourselves into becoming. Life is not an option. it is a gift; a gift that has been looked at in the mouth and tossed aside. Too many lives being brought into this world without any forethought of the consequences of what that life can grow up to become, or not.

Too many humans have taken this approach and applied damning rules that turn the human into some kind of performance based acceptance animal.

There is not enough this kind of thinking, and instead there are too many controlling and manipulative scum who would rather see humans turned into beasts of the field and plow their rows for them.

There are also the kind of scum humans who can do yet do not.

And then there are those who understand this and simply do not have the time or resources to make a difference.

So? Life sucks!

Edited March 20, 2012 by cup-O-coffee