Yingluck Gets By With A Little Help

[anterian]

30 years ago I was fluent in French, I don't think I can claim that now.

Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Considering the fact that those are the two most important languages in the region, one would think they would be able to speak the language.

How many Aussie or Kiwi PM's lay claim to obtaining a Bhasa [actually, its Bahasa] or Mandarin language-based Masters degree program?

Thanks for the analogies, guys. It would help... if they applied to the situation.

.

"Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?"

That is irrelevant to the point I was making, and you know it. My point was that any language unless frequently used gets rusty. After 21 years of disuse I would expect here usage of English to be poor.

[pastitche]

"The language of chemistry is not english, nor is it the language of physics, nor math, nor biochemistry."

You are correct but her degree requires English unless she is going to be doing her job in Thailand. Would i expect the PM of Thailand with a masters degree from and American University to speak fluent English, yes. Does she come any where close? Nope. "Thank you for help me to translate"? Her helpers cant get her through 6-7 words? I think she was going for the flirtatious, "Help me im innocent and trying to speak english",(Bat Eye lash) and it worked! Pretty puppet wins again, you guys are easy.

I graduated from an accredited University that offers doctorate level academics. I have also worked with many a fine chef that has attended vocation/ tech schools and some who had their doctorates and then went to these tech schools to become chefs. From your elitist red perch it must be nice to look down on the common folk that serve you. <Profane comment removed>

Yingluck too went to an accreditated university but apparently that is not enough for the Oxbridge and Ivy League graduates on this forum; if you have been a trained chef, how good is your French outside of the kitchen?

Well done!

Is that bien cuit?

[FOODLOVER]

"The language of chemistry is not english, nor is it the language of physics, nor math, nor biochemistry."

You are correct but her degree requires English unless she is going to be doing her job in Thailand. Would i expect the PM of Thailand with a masters degree from and American University to speak fluent English, yes. Does she come any where close? Nope. "Thank you for help me to translate"? Her helpers cant get her through 6-7 words? I think she was going for the flirtatious, "Help me im innocent and trying to speak english",(Bat Eye lash) and it worked! Pretty puppet wins again, you guys are easy.

I graduated from an accredited University that offers doctorate level academics. I have also worked with many a fine chef that has attended vocation/ tech schools and some who had their doctorates and then went to these tech schools to become chefs. From your elitist red perch it must be nice to look down on the common folk that serve you. <Profane comment removed>

Yingluck too went to an accreditated university but apparently that is not enough for the Oxbridge and Ivy League graduates on this forum; if you have been a trained chef, how good is your French outside of the kitchen?

Well done!

Is that bien cuit?

I was thinking more on the lines of Touche but don't know how to get that darn squiggily line above the e.

edited do to potty mouth

Edited March 25, 2012 by FOODLOVER

[DickFarang]

"The language of chemistry is not english, nor is it the language of physics, nor math, nor biochemistry."

You are correct but her degree requires English unless she is going to be doing her job in Thailand. Would i expect the PM of Thailand with a masters degree from and American University to speak fluent English, yes. Does she come any where close? Nope. "Thank you for help me to translate"? Her helpers cant get her through 6-7 words? I think she was going for the flirtatious, "Help me im innocent and trying to speak english",(Bat Eye lash) and it worked! Pretty puppet wins again, you guys are easy.

I graduated from an accredited University that offers doctorate level academics. I have also worked with many a fine chef that has attended vocation/ tech schools and some who had their doctorates and then went to these tech schools to become chefs. From your elitist red perch it must be nice to look down on the common folk that serve you. <Profane comment removed>

You believe her job requires English language fluency. That's nice. It is also akin to my declaring that you require building trade skills when you make a sandwich. Who are you to set the criteria for the PM position? Is the current PM of China or the 1st Secretary of Vietnam fluent in English? I don't think so. And yet those countries seem to be doing just fine.

As for your assumption that I am sitting on an "elitist red perch (and that) it must be nice to look down on the common folk that serve (me)", it is flattering I suppose. Although I appreciate that you wish to give credit for what you perceive as my superior station in life, I am but a humble man of the people. Unfortunately, all that one can do is to look down as some choose to muck about in the gutter. The banal idiotic criticisms about the PM's language skills are just that: gutter talk.

"It is wonderful that you have a diploma form a technical school in food preparation. However, I do not think this provides you with the experience or knowledge to comment on the PM's academic abilities."

Yes it statements like this that make you seem like a red elitist. What kind of man would talk about anyone like this but an elitist? As for her English it is a minor issue that you seem to be able to latch onto because you have know true substance to your arguments, all bs and mirrors and revisionist history and some strange interpretation of the true events. Good luck with that.

“a diploma form a technical school”

“it statements like this”

“you have know true substance”

Where did you learn English ?

[sfbandung]

This is yet another red shirt/yellow shirt forum. The same old people declaring Yingluck to be the anti-christ even if she were to raise someone from the dead. And of course the same old people declaring her to be divine regardless of what a brain-dead puppet she appears to be at times.

Judging her intellect by how she expresses herself in English makes no sense, regardless of how corruptly you believe she obtained her "degree".

I have an Asian doctor in Australia. Her English is shocking, her skills as a doctor outstanding. And she has her degree from Sydney University, where you'd be brave to suggest she obtained it corruptly.

I've stated before that I like her, but it's a gut feel thing. I come from neither politicial camp, but the partisan nature of the debates here sometimes staggers me.

In this particular situation I think she handled herself well, which is a good follow up to how badly she has performed previously.

[americaninbangkok]

a good follow up to how badly she has performed previously.

When you set the bar that high...

[waza]

Sounds like the event was a stunning success, not for Yingluck the Thaksin hand puppet, but for her spin doctors. Finally, they have been able to stage manage an event to an acceptable level and didnt make their boss look like a complete idiot. Now she can get on with her job of diverting attention from the machinations of her convicted criminal brother who is a fugitive from justice and his government.

[pastitche]

a good follow up to how badly she has performed previously.

When you set the bar that high...

I think the poster said rather more than you selected for comment

[tlansford]

"Thank you for help me to translate."

Kentucky State University ( Masters )

And your masters is from?

And your fluency in Thai is?

The PM's command of the English language is still better than other important foreign leaders such as Putin of Russia, and Merkel of Germany. And the President of the USA speaks how many foreign languages?

BTW, how many expat managing directors ent over to manage the local company units actually speak Thai? One would think that such people living and working in Thailand would be fluent.

Criticism of the PM's English language skills is petty and usually made by insecure people.

And why would anybody want to speak Thai.. English is the language of the financial world, the language of international business, and also the main on-line language, go across the border to poor repressed Burma, and anyone with even a formal education speaks pretty damned good English.. go curl up with your red shirt wife and dog and give us all a break... Speak Thai ...haha... might as well speak Martian... khrup..

so many posters seem to make great efforts to integrate into their country of residence.

As for managing directors sent to Thailand to run business here, Thai language skills are very applicable, and valuable.

[tlansford]

Why doesn't Pravit Rojanaphruk talk about the content of the presentation? The PM's ability to speak English seems to be so much more fun for him instead of discussing something of substance.

His writing about this event is full of tactics for delivering slights and insults without having to take credit for them himself. For example :

Some members of the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Thailand (FCCT) didn't expect much from Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra,

...

One Western correspondent said ... he expected many long moments of awkward silence as the PM struggled with her English and mispronunciation.

And then he repeats this bold-faced lie,

recent controversy surrounding her Thai-language address to Japanese investors in Tokyo - without a simultaneous interpreter or translated text.

There was no simultaneous translation, but there were translated texts in Japanese and in English.

Another lie was :

Nick Nostitz, a German photographer and red-shirt sympathiser

Apparently Pravit doesn't understand that all journalists are not paid hacks like himself. People who actually do their jobs honestly need to be marginalized ??

Bottom line : no matter how hard The Nation tries to combine inane stories about The PM's attractiveness and English skills, they would be of more value to the reading public if they would write about the issues presented and discussed rather than blathering all over themselves with this fluff.

[geriatrickid]

This is yet another red shirt/yellow shirt forum. The same old people declaring Yingluck to be the anti-christ even if she were to raise someone from the dead. And of course the same old people declaring her to be divine regardless of what a brain-dead puppet she appears to be at times.

Judging her intellect by how she expresses herself in English makes no sense, regardless of how corruptly you believe she obtained her "degree".

I have an Asian doctor in Australia. Her English is shocking, her skills as a doctor outstanding. And she has her degree from Sydney University, where you'd be brave to suggest she obtained it corruptly.

I've stated before that I like her, but it's a gut feel thing. I come from neither politicial camp, but the partisan nature of the debates here sometimes staggers me.

In this particular situation I think she handled herself well, which is a good follow up to how badly she has performed previously.

I appreciate your sentiments, but I am not a redshirt. I dare say, they'd consider me part of the Bangkok elite. I acknowledge your concern about the tough stance some will take. Consider this; those making the wild allegations engage in some rather nasty and petty underhanded statements. The only way to deal with agents provacateurs is to respond in a tough manner. They are not offering constructive criticism, nor even fair critical commentary, but are instead engaged in character assassination.

I come from the sciences and in my graduate classes many students were unintelligible in english. Had I been fluent in Cantonese, or Manadarin or Hindi, I am sure we would have had lovely conversations. The absence of English did not however detract from their academic achievements. It is particularly irksome for me to read the sniping on the language issue because I live it first hand. My native tongue is English, but 40% of my working language is French. Almost all of my reports to the bosses are in French and my French grammar is atrocious. My relief comes when I am copying in Americans who thankfully tend to be blissfully unaware that languages other than English are spoken. I am in awe of my colleagues in Germany and the Netherlands that can switch between 3 or 4 languages flawlessly. My fluency in Thai is dismal as well and try as I might I have a tough time with the tones. Despite my language limitations I am still recognized for my professional skills. At the very least I believe the same courtesy must be extended to others. The inability to speak flawless english in no way should be used to belittle or denigrate someone, particularly a woman who is far beter educated and more successful in life than the bulk of her detractors posting in TVF. It's called courtesy and respect, values which some people seem to have left at the airport when they arrived.

Edited March 25, 2012 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

Sounds like the event was a stunning success, not for Yingluck the Thaksin hand puppet, but for her spin doctors. Finally, they have been able to stage manage an event to an acceptable level and didnt make their boss look like a complete idiot. Now she can get on with her job of diverting attention from the machinations of her convicted criminal brother who is a fugitive from justice and his government.

It must cause you no end of torment to see the PM receive a warm reception from the foreign press corps. You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge that she impressed most of the attendees. Had she flopped, I'm sure you'd be here to use it against her.

Edited March 25, 2012 by geriatrickid

[Buchholz]

30 years ago I was fluent in French, I don't think I can claim that now.

Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Considering the fact that those are the two most important languages in the region, one would think they would be able to speak the language.

How many Aussie or Kiwi PM's lay claim to obtaining a Bhasa [actually, its Bahasa] or Mandarin language-based Masters degree program?

Thanks for the analogies, guys. It would help... if they applied to the situation.

Bucholz I asked you in a similar previous thread where you went to university and you refused to answer on the grounds that it was irrelevant because the subject was Yingluck's academic achievement. So why are you asking an eqivalent question of Anterian?

Because he chose to offer up the information about himself first.

I would never ask that of anyone who hadn't done so already.

Also, I pointed out earlier that it was pointless to claim universities on an anonymous internet forum without means of validating.

But not addressing the mismatching of the various scenarios posted above, can I then presume that you agree that the quoted texts don't apply to Yingluck's situation?

.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Buchholz

[WackySomchai]

Why doesn't Pravit Rojanaphruk talk about the content of the presentation? The PM's ability to speak English seems to be so much more fun for him instead of discussing something of substance.

His writing about this event is full of tactics for delivering slights and insults without having to take credit for them himself. For example :

Some members of the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Thailand (FCCT) didn't expect much from Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra,

...

One Western correspondent said ... he expected many long moments of awkward silence as the PM struggled with her English and mispronunciation.

And then he repeats this bold-faced lie,

recent controversy surrounding her Thai-language address to Japanese investors in Tokyo - without a simultaneous interpreter or translated text.

There was no simultaneous translation, but there were translated texts in Japanese and in English.

Another lie was :

Nick Nostitz, a German photographer and red-shirt sympathiser

Apparently Pravit doesn't understand that all journalists are not paid hacks like himself. People who actually do their jobs honestly need to be marginalized ??

Bottom line : no matter how hard The Nation tries to combine inane stories about The PM's attractiveness and English skills, they would be of more value to the reading public if they would write about the issues presented and discussed rather than blathering all over themselves with this fluff.

A parrott PM will never gain any respect despite how much it smiles or shed crocodile tears ...

[Buchholz]

"Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?"

That is irrelevant to the point I was making, and you know it. My point was that any language unless frequently used gets rusty. After 21 years of disuse I would expect here usage of English to be poor.

The reason I asked was that you were making a comparison of your experience with those of Yingluck. I was just pointing out the dissimilarities, which negates the comparison.

Your other point that, without use, language skills can diminish with time is valid.

It's just that the image projected of her even before she was PM was that she was international business executive who proudly proclaimed to being in charge of a company with 20 million customers. In that sort of scenario, one might think she encounters English on at least an occasional basis, if not daily.

If, instead, she was actually a business executive in title only and acted only as a pretty front for her brother's businesses, with no actual responsibilities, and who only had very limited exposure to the real international business world, I could understand her current language shortcomings.

.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Buchholz

[waza]

Sounds like the event was a stunning success, not for Yingluck the Thaksin hand puppet, but for her spin doctors. Finally, they have been able to stage manage an event to an acceptable level and didnt make their boss look like a complete idiot. Now she can get on with her job of diverting attention from the machinations of her convicted criminal brother who is a fugitive from justice and his government.

It must cause you no end of torment to see the PM receive a warm reception from the foreign press corps. You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge that she impressed most of the attendees. Had she flopped, I'm sure you'd be here to use it against her.

Sorry GK I didnt realise you were hiso Thai\Chinese ('I dare say, they'd consider me part of the Bangkok elite'), I thought you were farrang like me. However, allay your fears for I am not in torment, Yinglucks didnt impress, you must be easily impressed, its more she failed to disappoint and embarrass Thailand this time. Well done to her spin doctors, its about time they got it right.

[Buchholz]

Now she can get on with her job of diverting attention from the machinations of her convicted criminal brother who is a fugitive from justice and his government.

Indeed. The FCCT Jamboree is but a faded memory as now she's rushed off to the Nuclear Security Summit in South Korea which is focusing on measures to protect nuclear materials and facilities. Perhaps she might make the keynote address.

http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/south-koreas-president-lee-myung-bak-toasts-thailands-photo-111139773.html

Cheers!!

.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Buchholz

[DickFarang]

Well as for her command of English I personally find it OK for a Thai but not OK for a Masters in a English speaking Collage.

As for the rest she relied on her looks, wit and dress when ever a question came up she had some one else answer it.

What is “a English speaking Collage” ?

[DickFarang]

I'd love to take some of the more bigoted, arrogant and drunk journos I've ever met and dump them in a country where they don't speak the language, then take the piss out of them every time they make a grammatical error or don't understand something. &lt;deleted&gt; *I* have trouble understanding ENGLISH speaking dialects sometimes and I'm 100% monolingual....

"And as I made my way out of the Grand Ballroom I ran into Pheu Thai MP Jarupan Kuldiloke and told her that perhaps the premier would benefit from some English-language practice."

I'm surprised you didn't top it off with a cunning linguist joke.

If I was her I'd have replied that perhaps you would benefit from some practice with getting your head out your ass...

I have to agree on all those English dialects here around.

[tlansford]

Well as for her command of English I personally find it OK for a Thai but not OK for a Masters in a English speaking Collage.

As for the rest she relied on her looks, wit and dress when ever a question came up she had some one else answer it.

What is “a English speaking Collage” ?

I dare say that it is an institution of higher learning specializing in ....

"a piece of art made by sticking various different materials such as photographs and pieces of paper or fabric onto a backing."

[DickFarang]

I see good old Nick is in there batting away................in the normal role of unbiased journalist.

I actually used the term "language fascists" when i had a chat with Pravit over these ridiculous attacks regarding Yingluck's English.

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's. I can't see what her English language abilities have to do with her capabilities as Prime Minister, and if you believe that stating this is "biased", than i just can't help you.

Personally i find attacks regarding her English language abilities extremely bad mannered.

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough, and has disarmed many with her charm. Some questions, such as the one asked in a heavy Irish accent, were indeed quite difficult to understand, and others were so convoluted that i also wondered what the heck these people were asking, or if they just enjoyed hearing themselves speak.

Many were quite suprised that Yingluck pulled the event of that well. My view is that many people underestimate her. I have followed her quite closely during the election campaign (as i followed Abhisit), and thought her far more capable than public opinion, and didn't really expect any less of her. Yingluck is not a great public speaker (to which she quite freely admits to), but is very eloquent and knowledgable in a more private setting. Abhisit is a brilliant public speaker and it takes a lot of mental preparation to find a question that unsettles Abhisit. Abhisit though, when he was Prime Minister, was in a more private setting far more guarded and uptight (with occasional burst of Engish humor and sarcasm), while Yingluck is extremely charming, far more open, and quite self-depreciating.

On both sides of the political divide there are politicians that are likable, and politicians that are everything else than. On a personal level - both Yingluck and Abhisit belong to the former. The latter i will not name here.

I never ever heard German federal chancellor Angela Merkel speak anything else than German on television.

(I doubt if she speaks anything else, except perhaps Russian, which she was forced to learn in the infamous DDR.)

Reading the stupid comments on Yingluck’s command of English, I find Merkel does the right thing.

[DickFarang]

Well as for her command of English I personally find it OK for a Thai but not OK for a Masters in a English speaking Collage.

As for the rest she relied on her looks, wit and dress when ever a question came up she had some one else answer it.

What is “a English speaking Collage” ?

I dare say that it is an institution of higher learning specializing in ....

"a piece of art made by sticking various different materials such as photographs and pieces of paper or fabric onto a backing."

The poor guy probably meant “an English language college”.

[DickFarang]

Geriatrickid-----Did I read you right, "she managed to deliver benefits" like 40% rises in food prices in many vital foods, suggesting she avert a war with Cambodia, Her own minister admitted he made a mistake with the dam water level, not releasing water before the rains arrived. Ha Ha the nation cared for in the flood crises YOU are Joking, 5,000 bht per house---and still waiting. Big % electricity was to blame for deaths.

If you remember at the time so much fuss was put on Thaksins return, and other related matters rather than the crises in the country. The army did a fantastic job for the people, NOT the politicians--and not the police--Thai people and Farrangs worked round the clock. Your government was pathetic, totally opposite to your comments. You amaze me with your posts, better tell some truths, than this rubbish.

I will admit that some good things did happen, the country rallied round. But at the end of the day whatever the P.M. did, she gets paid for doing it, and it's her job to do it.

If I remember well it was Abhisit who had the luminous idea to sell eggs by kilo.

As far as I know Good Old England is the only other country that sells eggs by weight and potatoes by number, but they live on an island and drive at the wrong side too.

[DickFarang]

I like her. But I'm from Australia where our current batch of politicians would make anyone look good. From all the commentary I've read the fact that she is quite an attractive lady works against her.

I nearly forgot that in my home country, Belgium, there is a homosexual, socialist, Walloon prime minister, who makes things worse than they were already.

[khaowong1]

"Thank you for help me to translate."

Kentucky State University ( Masters )

Indeed....

[DickFarang]

I cannot understand many Irishmen and Scotsmen, I have severe problems following the dialogue in American films, yet I am a native Englishman with several degrees. There are many overseas students, including Thais, at English colleges, most do a summer induction course to learn enough English to cope with their course material, they are not expected to be proficient, just adequate. So those who criticise Yingluck's English abilities in relationship to her Masters degree simply display their ignorance of the academic system in relationship to overseas students.

As to her letting others answer some questions, this is perfectly normal, ask a British PM a question on the environment and he will most probably pass it to the Minister for the environment. This is why all governments are split into departments, we live in a specialised age with specialised departments dealing with them.

I am not a “native speaker of English” and I cannot understand English dialects.

That does not only apply to Irish and Texan, but also to English dialects from Liverpool, etc.

[metisdead]

Another sniping/baiting post has been removed.

[bigbamboo]

The lack of English fluency has neither interfered nor hampered their work.

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Regarding your first point, you are correct: the lack of English fluency has neither interfered nor hampered the work of Merkel of Putin. And there is a simple reason for this: they both have brains, a strategic plan, and a work ethic. With that combination, they could conduct the business of politics in Tagalog for all their citizens care. The point I made in an earlier post is that Yingluck and her drawer full of monkeys --- err… I mean ministers --- just run about spouting jibberish. And no country should have jibberish as its official language.

Regarding your second point: “BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa [i’m guessing you meant Bahasa? Bhasa is a relatively minor language in Nepal] or Mandarin?”… I cannot vouch for nor justify the inadequacies of the Antipodean leadership. As for my President… well… he’s just too damned busy to learn every other language out there and get stuff accomplished. So he’s sticking with English and a game plan. But I’m sure if he decides to pick up another language someday, Thai will be the first one he chooses.

“Bhasa” could mean “Phaasaa Thai” (ภาษา ไทย) or perhaps “Bahasa Malaysia” or perhaps “Bahasa Indonesia”.

Strewth mate, the whole world knows Aussie PMs only ever speak Strine.

[pastitche]

"Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?"

That is irrelevant to the point I was making, and you know it. My point was that any language unless frequently used gets rusty. After 21 years of disuse I would expect here usage of English to be poor.

The reason I asked was that you were making a comparison of your experience with those of Yingluck. I was just pointing out the dissimilarities, which negates the comparison.

Your other point that, without use, language skills can diminish with time is valid.

It's just that the image projected of her even before she was PM was that she was international business executive who proudly proclaimed to being in charge of a company with 20 million customers. In that sort of scenario, one might think she encounters English on at least an occasional basis, if not daily.

If, instead, she was actually a business executive in title only and acted only as a pretty front for her brother's businesses, with no actual responsibilities, and who only had very limited exposure to the real international business world, I could understand her current language shortcomings.

.

As usual a post full of non sequiturs. Anterian made a perfectly valid point about loss of language skills over time and you dragged in Yingluck's attendance at a US university. I know nothing of Anterian's history but, if he is from Europe, he would have spent at least a year at a French university to obtain his degree.

She was a business executive in charge of a company with 20 million customers? How many of those customers were English speakers? And why, do you think that she would encounter English on at least an occasional basis?

Just the usual diatribe I have come to expect - full of puff and no substance. You would do well as a Nation opinion writer

?

[pastitche]

The lack of English fluency has neither interfered nor hampered their work.

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Regarding your first point, you are correct: the lack of English fluency has neither interfered nor hampered the work of Merkel of Putin. And there is a simple reason for this: they both have brains, a strategic plan, and a work ethic. With that combination, they could conduct the business of politics in Tagalog for all their citizens care. The point I made in an earlier post is that Yingluck and her drawer full of monkeys --- err… I mean ministers --- just run about spouting jibberish. And no country should have jibberish as its official language.

Regarding your second point: “BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa [i’m guessing you meant Bahasa? Bhasa is a relatively minor language in Nepal] or Mandarin?”… I cannot vouch for nor justify the inadequacies of the Antipodean leadership. As for my President… well… he’s just too damned busy to learn every other language out there and get stuff accomplished. So he’s sticking with English and a game plan. But I’m sure if he decides to pick up another language someday, Thai will be the first one he chooses.

I'm sure you men gibberish - jibberish if I remember correctly is a girlie language that boys can't understand