Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[jackr]

I find it very difficult to believe that this guy was attacked by security without asking for it in some way.

I don't. The guard may have thought he was losing face so lashed out in all likelihood - folk have short memories if they've never heard of such a trivial thing blowing up. Either way, does it require being smashed in the face with a baton, bearing in mind he is with his family and clearly not out on the lash or drunk, doesn't have a gun or knife, is not beating people up (yet), is not vandalizing trains... Whatever the rules (and forget not losing cool; you don't know how he was treated), the trouble with this place is (and despite him being sacked, probably face-saving by BTS), it's just fine and dandy when the natives lose face and lash out, but don't even think about objecting if you're a foreigner.

The call is likely the spud doing the (puerile, third-world-esque) 'you spoke to me rudely, now I must have revenge for my honour'.

Any how, always interesting to he how this type of thread brings out the Thaier than Thai, rose-tinted goggles brigade. Equally

[wellred]

In the UK the police wouldn't even bother turning up, because it would mean too much paperwork to fill in.

Hmm, wasn't there a Brazilian guy who didn't comply with instructions in London underground a while back......?

That was different. Special branch or whoever it was had been tailing that guy for a while, or so they thought.

[Nisa]

Does the bottom left icon mean no sitting?

I think it does but it is referring to the BTS station and not the train.

[harleyclarkey]

When i read about this I think of what would have happened in Canada, if he didnot comply with a quards request. Here is what I think would have happened especially if he tried to force his way through with the balloons. He would have probably been tasered. Then balloons and him taken to local police station and his wife and child would have had to arrange bail. He would have had to go to court and probably have a criminal record at the end of it all. He and his family should apologize to the quard, the BTS and pay the quard for lost wages , pain and suffering.

A public apology would help alot.

New York and he probably would have been shot...

That's the problem....a very violent society ..and that from the authorities.

I was speeding, as you do on a motorbike...nothing too bad. Stopped...and the reaction? Surrounded by 3 SUV's and 5 thugs with guns. Nice.

Before the rule book thumpers jump up and down...I was at 65 in a 45 limit with not a sinner, car, or building in sight.

[metisdead]

Posts that were either trolling, off topic, profane, or inflammatory have been removed as well as the replies.

[meand]

The guy was in "I will win" mode since he was told about the balloons. This is a common phenomena we see everyday in human behavior, here on forums for example. People just don't stop. I don't even care what happened anymore, the guy said he was wrong and made a mistake. Ok then, why not just publicly apologize for the mistake and ask that the guards be reinstated. I'll answer my own question, because he is still in "win" mode -- "I am better, I will win". The costs of him being in this mode are staggering, and he'll pay them, along with the rest of us.

[thaiman]

When i read about this I think of what would have happened in Canada, if he didnot comply with a quards request.

Who cares? It's totally irrelevant. This is about Thailand not Canada or any other nation for that matter. All things are done the "Thai way" in Thailand.

The guy deserved the beating he got. He challenged a THAI guard with a weapon. Tough sh**for the Irish teacher. It's a lesson learned the hard way!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

BTW, I've been meaning to inquire....

As far as I understand it, the station security guards are contract employees who work for another company, not direct employees of BTS like the station staff are...

If that's not correct, please correct me... But assuming it is, the BTS wouldn't have the ability to "fire" a contractor employee. They could remove that employee from his BTS assignment or bar him from working at BTS... But his employment status would be up to his contract employer.

Totally irrelevant to Thai realities. The customer of any agency of any sort lets the agency know they don't want that worker around, s/he will be removed. Depending on the circumstances, the agency may choose to terminate their employee.

Important enough customer demands that the agency terminate that employee - I'm sure it would happen, and just as sure there wouldn't be any recourse, or even the thought of an objection.

Sorry a 'rule' is only a rule when it gets clear and consistent enforcement..

The whole "well you can take half your balloons through" just shows its entirely selective and being made up on the spot.

Yes, and what was your point? You are in Thailand, whatever led you to believe you should expect rational logic, consistency etc?

No matter how arbitrary or unfair, one would have to be an idiot to create a public conflict over something so minor. The rule by default is "do what they tell you". If you want to argue about it, find someone rational and intelligent to argue with once you're away from the scene.

There is absolutely no point trying to use rational argument or logic in such a situation - the dynamic is "A has the power to hurt B" "B obeys A or suffers the (yes arbitrary and illogical) consequences."

Even if Somchai were ordering me out of the blue to get on my knees and lick the floor, I'd just be turning around - more likely backing away facing him - and removing myself from the scene, not arguing with him or trying to blunder my way past.

And certainly not **after** I'd already been struck in the head!

And for those telling him not to take the threats seriously, that's pretty stupid - it's so easy to move to another country why would you stick around?

[blackthorn2005]

When i read about this I think of what would have happened in Canada, if he didnot comply with a quards request. Here is what I think would have happened especially if he tried to force his way through with the balloons. He would have probably been tasered. Then balloons and him taken to local police station and his wife and child would have had to arrange bail. He would have had to go to court and probably have a criminal record at the end of it all. He and his family should apologize to the quard, the BTS and pay the quard for lost wages , pain and suffering.

A public apology would help alot.

New York and he probably would have been shot...

Looks like he may still be shot, or his family!

Edited March 25, 2012 by blackthorn2005

[mrtoad]

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong in this whole thing. There are only two points that matter in this case:

1 - If it was a Thai person it wouldn't have been on the news.

2 - The guy shouldn't have received any death threats over something so stupid if at all.

Both points just show how xenophobic Thai people are.

All Thai people are xenophobic? Wow

My understanding is that it was a Farang Blogger who put it up on their website first - which lead it to going out on the internet. So I don't think it has anything to do with xenophobia.

As for death threats, they are not acceptable anywhere.

[falangjim]

Well, this family man jerk screwed up. Still, no reason for a threatening phone call. Thai logic. By the looks of the size of the foreigner, he could have pounded a few of those dim-wit security guards. But he lost his nut, and now he's messed up things for his family. Stupid. Stupid country. Stupid falang.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory name calling posts and replies have been removed. A post advocating violence has been removed as well as the replies. An off topic post has been removed.

[RAZZELL]

Rules are there for a reason...

All this over a few balloons....pair of idiots...

RAZZ

[phosphorescent]

It's good to know that if I'm ever in the unfortunate position of being accused of anything, I can count on the majority of the TV community to have me hung, drawn and quartered before all of the facts surfaced. Even if he did turn out to be 100% at fault, (which I doubt) this is all much more than he or his family deserve. To the man involved, if you happen to be reading these forums, you should stop now because threr will always be more hatemongers than compassionate people on anonymous forums but I think in person we are all far kinder.

[TheWalkingMan]

Sad that the place is so full of violence that when someone complains about it, more violence can be threatened. Even sadder that people seem to agree with it, with that tired comment, "TIT." This same attitude pervades the ghetto areas of The States where... if you cause me trouble, I will threaten, perhaps injure or kill you or your family.

[wintermute]

Yawn. this saga is getting worse and worse by the day. The people involved need to take the pacifier out of their mouths and move on. This irishman should go back to his own country asap because right now all he's doing is kicking up drama over every "slight" he's experiencing. Maybe he can let things cool off for a year at least and then return...if he doesn't get himself blacklisted soon that is.

The more he runs to the media the worse this is going to get. His points will be totally misconstrued or mistranslated by the Thai public anyways. It doesn't matter what the foreign expats think he's personally making it harder for his family.

I stand by my comment that this guy wouldn't be doing this in Ireland or any other western country. He's suffering from a case of farang expat righteous indignation and it's just going to get worse because apparently he has all the social intelligence of a warthog.

[lupusdom]

Actually I saw this event in person and can confirm that there surely was no threatening or something by this guy - in fact noone noticed anything happening and then he got hit. It surely was not his fault.

I guess the big problem is just that, like it always happens everywhere with guys like that, the security guy is an asshol_e.

It was just really sad that all of this happened in front of the children - seriously, who starts a fight in front of children?

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[hawker9000]

Land of Smiles indeed... No one smiling now, is there? All because of some stupid balloons. Falang screwed up big. Video appears. Egos bruised. Both sides angry. Threats made. Tourism pros know stuff like this is bad for business. 'Don't know what the answer is - it would never even occur to the vast majority of us to push anything anywhere NEAR this far as a guest in another country, but as someone else suggested, we're all tarred a bit by it. Maybe just wait it out - interest in the video will eventually die, the world will turn, whatever happens to this guy happens - none of it had to happen. You know how they teach you in drivers ed that most of the responsibility rests with the last guy that COULD HAVE AVOIDED the accident (regardless of who's technically "at fault")? As a guest in a foreign country, you're going to LOSE the "technical" argument almost every time, so AVOID the accident! Doh! Balloons, FGS!!!

[flyingsporran]

The bottom line, as someone pointed out is what is shown on the CCTV. Actually a few people have seen the CCTV now. The problem is that putting this CCTV up will I am convinced make this a real viral and will be picked up by the media everywhere. Thus even bigger problems could be created for the international school teacher who could be accused of damaging the country's reputation. Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out and there has been no action to prosecute John Behan for breaking BTS rules - which as others have mentioned - are very vague and up to the man on the spot. There was obviously an argument prior to the first attack but the attack did not come from with whom JB was arguing. Had the person been of a different constituency the repercussions could have been far worse. Had the ballons not belonged to his daughter I am sure JB would have relinquished them. Regretfully the teacher is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Its a sort of Thai situation.

Edited March 25, 2012 by flyingsporran

[metisdead]

An insulting post on another member has been removed, just remember, you were a newbie at one time too.

[NewlyMintedThai]

The bottom line, as someone pointed out is what is shown on the CCTV. Actually a few people have seen the CCTV now. The problem is that putting this CCTV up will I am convinced make this a real viral and will be picked up by the media everywhere. Thus even bigger problems could be created for the international school teacher who could be accused of damaging the country's reputation. Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out and there has been no action to prosecute John Behan for breaking BTS rules - which as others have mentioned - are very vague and up to the man on the spot. There was obviously an argument prior to the first attack but the attack did not come from with whom JB was arguing. Had the person been of a different constituency the repercussions could have been far worse. Had the ballons not belonged to his daughter I am sure JB would have relinquished them. Regretfully the teacher is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Its a sort of Thai situation.

So, Andrew, have you seen the CCTV footage? And is it more damaging to the Irishman or the guards?

[wintermute]

Had the ballons not belonged to his daughter I am sure JB would have relinquished them. Regretfully the teacher is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Its a sort of Thai situation.

Having children and acting out personal bad behavior under the guise of "protecting" them isn't a good excuse. Public transit officials have every right to make reasonable requests on what you can or can't take on board a train.

This wouldn't even be up for debate at all if it happened in a western country.

[mrtoad]

The unfortunate thing in all of this is that because this incident , however unpleasant it was, has got into the domain media, the alleged victim of this attack (not seen the CCTV) so can't be sure is being bashed from pillar to post by the forums and the public. He's now even getting death threats. It's a sad reflection of society when people judge things with half of the facts in front of them, even worse that people write stuff on the internet or make threats by phone.

I don't know if either party could of handled it better (I suspect they could have), but it really has become blown up out of all proportion at this point.

The person who is probably most affected by this is his daughter.

Edited March 25, 2012 by mrtoad

[flyingsporran]

The bottom line, as someone pointed out is what is shown on the CCTV. Actually a few people have seen the CCTV now. The problem is that putting this CCTV up will I am convinced make this a real viral and will be picked up by the media everywhere. Thus even bigger problems could be created for the international school teacher who could be accused of damaging the country's reputation. Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out and there has been no action to prosecute John Behan for breaking BTS rules - which as others have mentioned - are very vague and up to the man on the spot. There was obviously an argument prior to the first attack but the attack did not come from with whom JB was arguing. Had the person been of a different constituency the repercussions could have been far worse. Had the ballons not belonged to his daughter I am sure JB would have relinquished them. Regretfully the teacher is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Its a sort of Thai situation.

So, Andrew, have you seen the CCTV footage? And is it more damaging to the Irishman or the guards?

The CCTV shows the blows being struck - both during the first attack and the second. A lot more powerful than the teacher shadow kicking and being held back by his friend. CCTV footage from another station show JB and daughter happily progressing with their balloons.

I repeat the original video was submitted by a Thai person who was horrified at the guards' action. It was put up primarily because his wounds (eye and the side of his head can be seen) I am amazed that many foreigners here, who give themselves airs of being very smart, have been so judgmental.

From many years in Thailand, and also reporting on similar attacks, I am writing from confidence that foriegners can be attacked for very little reason, when the attacker believes he has the power in that situation. Its a fact of life. Normally these situations can be avoided. But there are cases when they cannot. Many Thais are horrified at this attack. At the moment we are just hearing from the noisy foreigners and their equivalent.

John Behan was not drunk during that video - he had been clobbered sevaral times and I am sure his adrenalin was up.

[mauGR1]

The unfortunate thing in all of this is that because this incident , however unpleasant it was, has got into the domain media, the alleged victim of this attack (not seen the CCTV) so can't be sure is being bashed from pillar to post by the forums and the public. He's now even getting death threats. It's a sad reflection of society when people judge things with half of the facts in front of them, even worse that people write stuff on the internet or make threats by phone.

I don't know if either party could of handled it better (I suspect they could have), but it really has become blown up out of all proportion at this point.

The person who is probably most affected by this is his daughter.

Agree, and don't forget his wife too..

But i hope everything will be forgotten soon, all it needs is some more interesting event in the news.

[NewlyMintedThai]

The bottom line, as someone pointed out is what is shown on the CCTV. Actually a few people have seen the CCTV now. The problem is that putting this CCTV up will I am convinced make this a real viral and will be picked up by the media everywhere. Thus even bigger problems could be created for the international school teacher who could be accused of damaging the country's reputation. Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out and there has been no action to prosecute John Behan for breaking BTS rules - which as others have mentioned - are very vague and up to the man on the spot. There was obviously an argument prior to the first attack but the attack did not come from with whom JB was arguing. Had the person been of a different constituency the repercussions could have been far worse. Had the ballons not belonged to his daughter I am sure JB would have relinquished them. Regretfully the teacher is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Its a sort of Thai situation.

So, Andrew, have you seen the CCTV footage? And is it more damaging to the Irishman or the guards?

The CCTV shows the blows being struck - both during the first attack and the second. A lot more powerful than the teacher shadow kicking and being held back by his friend. CCTV footage from another station show JB and daughter happily progressing with their balloons.

I repeat the original video was submitted by a Thai person who was horrified at the guards' action. It was put up primarily because his wounds (eye and the side of his head can be seen) I am amazed that many foreigners here, who give themselves airs of being very smart, have been so judgmental.

From many years in Thailand, and also reporting on similar attacks, I am writing from confidence that foriegners can be attacked for very little reason, when the attacker believes he has the power in that situation. Its a fact of life. Normally these situations can be avoided. But there are cases when they cannot. Many Thais are horrified at this attack. At the moment we are just hearing from the noisy foreigners and their equivalent.

John Behan was not drunk during that video - he had been clobbered sevaral times and I am sure his adrenalin was up.

Thanks, but did he or did he not ignore the guards' instructions and continue in his attempt to barge into the station after being told he could not (without leaving the balloons behind)?

That's at the crux of the issue, not whether or not he was beaten. I think everyone here agrees he was.

[p_brownstone]

Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out

What's a Warrant? Of course the BTS refused to give the Video to Behan, not only is it their property it is also evidence in a potential criminal investigation.

I am sure it was handed over when the police asked for it however because they have the right to demand it - Behan, and incidentally you, has no such right.

I have seen no claims from anyone that they have viewed the CCTV footage of the start off this incident - do you have a Link or evidence?

Who "handed out" apologies?

BTS have certainly NOT apologised to Behan - as confirmed by his wife when she reported the alleged telephone threat to the police. The family received flowers but that was intended simply to show sympathy for the distress the incident caused the family.

Patrick

[JO1973]

I find it interesting (and sad) how many people assumed it was the foreigner's fault but in no way condemned the person who threatened the man's family. Sure enough, there are witnesses here who said it wasn't his fault but for some reason I doubt anyone will find fault with the man committing a CRIME by making a threat.

For those who wish to always find fault with foreigners and find justification in illegal acts by locals perhaps you should ask yourself if you would justify the same in your own country? If a Thai were a victim of an assault by a security guard in the UK and then had his family's lives threatened by a local, would you blame the Thai and say 'you had it coming'? My guess is you would not.

[kagan]

All this over some stupid balloons, what an idiot; the farang I mean not the guard

[wintermute]

From many years in Thailand, and also reporting on similar attacks, I am writing from confidence that foriegners can be attacked for very little reason, when the attacker believes he has the power in that situation. Its a fact of life. Normally these situations can be avoided. But there are cases when they cannot. Many Thais are horrified at this attack. At the moment we are just hearing from the noisy foreigners and their equivalent.

John Behan was not drunk during that video - he had been clobbered sevaral times and I am sure his adrenalin was up.

It's rather interesting that i've been living in Thailand for years and have used the public transportation a lot and never encountered Thais getting violent with me. Amazing isn't it? Gee, I wonder why.