Tipping

[pb2003]

Is tipping expected in a better restaurant, even when a 10 % service charge is part of the bill ?

[britmaveric]

Up to you

[Crossy]

If a service charge is itemised on the bill I don't tip unless the service has been particularly good, then the coins get left for the staff.

I don't like paying a 'service charge', preferring to tip for good service. I have actually refused to pay the service charge when my service was particularly bad (waited 40 minutes after others at our table had got their meals).

It's still up to you

[Curt]

If a service charge is itemised on the bill I don't tip unless the service has been particularly good, then the coins get left for the staff.

It's still up to you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We've investigated the added "service charge" at 4 different establishments.

In every case, the staff sees none of it.

With the advent of tipping in Thailand, greedy business owners have found a new means to boost profit margin.

If you tip to show appreciation for good service afforded you, give the tip directly to the staff.

[sonthaya]

I'll tip if I had a good service from the staff, I have been told that they receive nothing from the 10% service charge, it all goes to the employer.

[solo siam]

If you are in a better restaurant then indeed the service charge will be given to the employees, else they would simply stop working there and the restaurant would cease to be a 'better' restaurant.

If your in a bit of a dive then they shouldnt even be charging for service, besides no matter what the restaurant say, a service charge is discretionary.

[sonthaya]

If you are in a better restaurant then indeed the service charge will be given to the employees, else they would simply stop working there and the restaurant would cease to be a 'better' restaurant.

If your in a bit of a dive then they shouldnt even be charging for service, besides no matter what the restaurant say, a service charge is discretionary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the way the system is supposed to work, but a lot of places it doesn't.

[solo siam]

Twice in the UK when the food was rotten but the waitress was great I insisted on not paying service and gave it as a tip instead to the waitress. One of my local Indian restaurants here in Phuket has just decided to add service charge, even on take-aways. It was already more expensive than Indian food in Hong kong, The UK etc...

[Johpa]

I'll tip if I had a good service from the staff, I have been told that they receive nothing from the 10% service charge, it all goes to the employer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely correct with rare exceptions. The employees rarely see any of the "mandatory" service charges leveled at tourist oriented establishments. It is just that certain sectors of the Thai elite can not stomach watching a gwailo handing money over to some Isaan indentured servant. It literally causes an upset stomach and loss of sleep. Thus and therefore they, the elite, concocted a law that allows for a mandatory service charge in tourist oriented hotels and eateries. I mean how you going to keep a dark skinned Lao under your foot when white folks are treating them with some decency for a job well done?

So if you have had good service hand over a small tip directly to your sever.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Absolutely correct with rare exceptions....

Thus and therefore they, the elite, concocted a law that allows for a mandatory service charge in tourist oriented hotels and eateries. 

So if you have had good service hand over a small tip directly to your sever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry if I am a tad confused- are you saying that a mandatory service charge was introduced in Thailand first 'by the elite' because of the reasons you stated in your post? Seems to be common in many countries....

[Rinrada]

If your in a bit of a dive then they shouldnt even be charging for service, besides no matter what the restaurant say, a service charge is discretionary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If its that bad they shouldnt even have been charging for the food

[OldAsiaHand]

The practice here among both sophisticated Thais and foreigners who know the system has always been the same as far as I know. If you are paying by credit card, you sign your bill without adding any additional tip and place about 5% of the total bill into the folder in cash. When you are paying by cash, you leave some small change, but no more than 5% of the total bill.

What makes me angry when I pay by card is that many places add the service charge and then leave the tip blank on your card receipt empty in hopes you are dumb (or drunk) enough to give them even more money. The classy places (such as the Oriental) place the service charge into the tip blank so that there is no way for your to make a mistake and add more. They get a nod of admiration from me for their lack of greed.

[The Coder]

I've seen a number of restaurants that even add VAT on top of the bill! Bottom line for me is even if the service charge does not go to the people giving the service, that's not my problem. If the employees don't get anything and don't like the arrangement, then they should work at a different restaurant. If customers tip the establishment for the built in service charge and then fork out even more money to the staff on top for another tip that can only perpetuate this nonsense. I like restaurants where I can fully choose an appropriate tip for service in appreciation, not this mandatory fixed charge: money put in the folder gets divided by the staff, money on top of the folder goes to the server. You can also do both. That's a nice system.

[Johpa]

Sorry if I am a tad confused- are you saying that a mandatory service charge was introduced in Thailand first 'by the elite' because of the reasons you stated in your post?  Seems to be common in many countries.... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have seen some mandatory service charges elsewhere at very high end establishments and at better eateries when you bring in a large party. And usually the service charge is distributed to the staff. I have not seen such charges elsewhere around the globe in ordinary hotels and coffee shops at a two & three star hotels except for in Thailand. Your mileage may vary.

I should note that the Oriental in Bangkok does distribute the service charge to staff.

And the Thais bring this attitude overseas when they open Thai restaurants. Often in Asian restaurants they pool the tips. And in Thai restaurants in the US it is common for the owners to take 50% of the tips for themselves.

[chanchao]

Hehehehehe Johpa's on a roll today.

Personally, in the unlikely event I find myself in a restaurant that charges a service charge, I don't tip diddly.

This topic is always good for at least 5 pages.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[meadish_sweetball]

I agree with Chanchao. If they apply a service charge, I don't tip extra - except in cases of truly exceptional service (service from the heart, not from the rule book).

Of course different establishments have different rules for service charge. Around the hotel circuit of Chiang Mai, this differs from nothing (not too common if there actually is a service charge) to a fixed service charge part of the employee's salary, set at a certain amount of money, to a floating service charge which is divided according to a scale where senior management receive a larger percentage, but all employees at ground level also receive a certain percentage.

It is simply impossible to tell what the policy of an individual establishment is unless you ask the people working there, who may or may not tell you the whole truth.

[Noel]

If there is a mandatory service charge included in the bill, surely only people in favour of self-induced Dual Pricing would tip?

I do know that many of the establishments in Pattaya who operate this questionable practice actually do share the money between the staff. There was some focus on it in the Pattaya Mail some months back as I recall. Several places such as the Hard Rock refuted that they pocketed the money.

As for suggestions from some concerning giving a tip directly to the server, that can actually cause problems if the policy of the venue is for staff to pool the tips.

I am quite surprised that some of the Septics have not already started bleating the same old sob story about catering staff being paid so poorly that they depend on tips.

Oh dear, what have I said...

[Rinrada]

OK know this only applies to the Laws in Blighty but ...FYI....

A couple of years ago we had a big night out in Chelsea..loads of booze etc.and the bill came to about a grand....no prob but..

a.Service Charge added = 15%....£150........£1150.00

b.VAT @17.5%.....added..= 17.5....£201.25....£1351.25

then the CC bill came and of course the total was left empty ...looking for another top up.............................................

Then the manager came over and suggested that since we no doubt enjoyed the meal (about 15 of us )HE suggested that maybe a wee tip of say £10 a head for the staff would surely be a "nice". appreciation....Wot another £150.00...

Could have been 50% of the meal which was OK mbut nothing to go on about.

As it happens one of our guys was Head of Trading Standards and another a soon to be barriser and although we were a bit tippled we were not that thrashed...told him to get...s.........anyway in LOS TIT...and U.T.U*

The Legal case

Restaurant rights: the Bill

The worst part of eating out is the fact that you usually have to pay for it, but it isn't as simple as just handing over the cash.

VAT & Service charges

VAT must be included in the price.

You should never therefore have VAT as a separate item on your bill.

If a percentage charge for service is said to be included in the meal price you are entitled to reduce the bill if the service has been poor.

You are entitled to reduce it by the amount shown to be the service charge.

If it is not specified, anything up to 15% would be acceptable.

Food quality

If the problem is the quality of the food rather than the service and it is so poor as to be a breach of contract, again you are entitled to reduce the bill or refuse to pay.

However, if you are going to do this you need to tell the waiter at the time the food is served or if you first taste it. The restaurant is entitled to have the opportunity of putting good the problem.

Under protest

If you do not like making a fuss or you are with a party and do not want to upset the atmosphere, you can always pay 'under protest' and write on the back of the bill that you are doing so.

This gives you the chance of claiming against the restaurant at a later date. Usually only worth it if you are with a big party.

Free meals

It is a criminal offence on your part to go into a restaurant and order a meal with the intention of not paying for it. Restaurants often wrongly believe this means you have to pay for a meal whatever the circumstances.

This is not the case. So long as you have a genuine reason for not paying and you leave your name and address, you have not acted in any way dishonestly.

Clear prices

The law provides that you should be given a chance to check the prices before you get to your table, as well as having a menu at the table.

They must make clear, or show as prominently as the food prices, any minimum charge or service charge.

If these charges aren't there and on your menu and you were not otherwise told, you can refuse to pay.

They are not part of your contract. If they are displayed you must pay then unless they are unreasonable for the standard of the restaurant.

If the restaurant fails with any of these obligations if runs the risk of a prosecution by the Trading Standards Departments. You can threaten to report the restaurant if you are in an argument.

Most restaurants will not wish to run this risk, but frankly there are few examples of prosecutions beings successfully taken. Trading Standards Officers claim they are too overworked with other problems to deal with this type of prosecution.

Credit card abuse

Many restaurants leave credit card slips 'open' next to the space marked "gratuity" so that you can leave a tip on the credit card.

Some restaurants continue to do this even though they have already charged a service charge within the bill.

This may suggest that the service charge was not going to the waiting staff at all and you may want to ask the Manager if this is the case.

To avoid abuse of the credit card you should strike out the empty space and fill the total.

If extra amounts are added afterwards this will be 'unauthorised debit' and you should refuse to pay. You should check your statements carefully and keep the copy of the signed slip at least until the amount appears on your statement.

You can then have evidence to put to the credit card company if a dispute arises.

[SamuiRes]

Is tipping expected in a better restaurant, even when a 10 % service charge is part of the bill ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like the way they do it at the Coco Blues Bar here in Samui. All the staff put the tips in a box and at the end of the evening two staff members empty the box and divide the tips between everyone (managers excepted) working that day including kitchen and cleaning staff. There is no Service Charge so it is up to the staff to provide good service - and they do.

[lomatopo]

I found the following short article on tipping from a recent New Yorker (Talk of the Town column) to be interesting (history, economics, effect on service, etc.)...

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/arti...talk_surowiecki

[ben01]

it's really down to being aware of what your being charged for, on the menu it might say inclusive or they might add it on anyway and if not aware you could be paying twice.It still boils down to the same old question you have to ask yourself....are YOU the paying customer happy with what you received....easy...job done...I've left tips for some staff because i've felt guilty of how they've been treated by other farangs's!!!! some people have no manners and treat the women like sh*t which really nauses me

off topic i suppose........

[Felix Lynn]

We've investigated the added "service charge" at 4 different establishments.

In every case, the staff sees none of it.

With the advent of tipping in Thailand, greedy business owners have found a new means to boost profit margin.

If you tip to show appreciation for good service afforded you, give the tip directly to the staff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This annoys me to no end. Having had several tip oriented jobs in my life, I take extra care in tipping. Sometimes I even tip when service has suffered, if there is some legit reason for it. I hate to hear stories that the staff does not get the tips. A shame, especially when considering the low salaries that wait staff receive in Thailand.