Thai Democrats Dump Sonthi On Doubts Over His Actions

[hellodolly]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

??? They could form a government because they had a majority together with the coalition partners. While the democrat lead government wasn't impressive it was far less corrupt than the TRT, PPP, PTP governments before and after.

And of course it wasn't the first time and not the last the Democrats formed the government (if you learn a bit about Thailands history).

The same as the Pt today they may have the majority of seats in the house but they do not have the majority of the people. They are a minority running the majority of people. Being led by a convicted criminal one who was convicted by his own Government.

[bigbamboo]

This guy Sonthi should be put in prison for high treason. He swore an oath to protect the Constitution but he broke his oath. In military terms he is a treator and should be court martialled. Perhaps the constitution should be amended to allow this.

How can anyone half wit elect such a guy in a parliament when all his previous life suggest that he has no respect for democracy, rule of law and freedom?

But not enough, they even make him the chairman of the reconciliation commission! And still, he makes his little show about who is behind the coup. HE is the reason for all the mess in today's politics in Thailand.

I think his oath was to the King, not the constitution.

He was elected partly because people believe that he was protecting democracy by removing Thaksin.

So Dominique is suggesting that it is OK to amend the constitution after the fact to suit your own purposes. Now where have I heard that before?

[phiphidon]

It is completely counterproductive to dissolve an entire party because some of its members are corrupt. Especially when every party in every election buys votes - it is completely normal and accepted here, not a big deal at all.

Not because some its members are corrupt, because its executive members are corrupt and encourage electoral fraud among ordinary politicians.

For some people electoral fraud IS a big deal and they want their country to have clean elections and cleaner politics.

Also there's little evidence that banning executives and dissolving parties had only negative effect on Thai politics. We have hundreds of new politicians, for example, and in the last elections no one dared to cheap openly, they are apparently learning something, and people are much more aware of at least some explicit forms of vote buying an it is not as effective as it used to be.

It is far more likely that local politicians in the nakhon nowheres of Thailand would "buy votes" in whatever way is effective to get on to the gravy train that can be politics. They haven't got a lot to risk.

Now knowing the penalties of party dissolution do you honestly believe that the executive goes out of their way to tell everybody in the party to "buy a few votes but make sure you're not caught, we've got to win seats"?

And yet we're told that the PTP have only got into power by mass buying of votes.So when did this happen? The EC have nothing to say, there may be a couple of byelections, one even due to a PTP MP lying about how long he had been in a constituency, but mass vote buying, BS.

The democrats were/are still trying everything they can but they cannot do it at the election box

[sparebox2]

This guy Sonthi should be put in prison for high treason. He swore an oath to protect the Constitution but he broke his oath. In military terms he is a treator and should be court martialled. Perhaps the constitution should be amended to allow this.

How can anyone half wit elect such a guy in a parliament when all his previous life suggest that he has no respect for democracy, rule of law and freedom?

But not enough, they even make him the chairman of the reconciliation commission! And still, he makes his little show about who is behind the coup. HE is the reason for all the mess in today's politics in Thailand.

I think his oath was to the King, not the constitution.

He was elected partly because people believe that he was protecting democracy by removing Thaksin.

So Dominique is suggesting that it is OK to amend the constitution after the fact to suit your own purposes. Now where have I heard that before?

Put in prison for high treason? No way. He was a great man doing the nation a favour by putting the nation largest criminal away in 2006.

[MAJIC]

Maybe someone should look into Sonthi's finances and see if any Thaksin derived 'Unusual Wealth' is evident?

It seems a rather abrupt and inverse about face to be pluggin for Thaksin all of a sudden.

Everyone seems to have their price in Thailand, I wonder if his has been reached?

Definately a money motivated about face,it seems you can trust no one in Thailand.

[waza]

_{The plot thickens}

_{With the reconciliation juggernaut approaching full tilt, it's probably time to stock up on instant noodles and map out contingency traffic plans to avoid places that protesters love.}

_{Everything we've heard over the past few weeks - peace, justice, let bygones be bygones, etc - is nothing but a signal that the very opposite may be around the corner.}

_{Chavalit Yongchaiyudh has re-emerged with a surprisingly coherent open letter on how to get Thai politics back to normal. Parliament is hell-bent on drafting an amnesty blueprint, although the Constitution is yet to be amended. Former coup leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin and retiring political big-wig Sanan Kachornprasart are exchanging encrypted public messages on a daily basis.}

_{If you're wondering what's going on, keep in mind that when a movie heads to its climax, the main characters have to act weirder and weirder. The following summation of key players' roles is not meant to shed light on the murkiness of the present situation; it's just a wrap-up so you're updated with the plot and thus able to fully enjoy the upcoming episode.}

_{http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/The-plot-thickens-30178843.html}

[longway]

However it doesn't mean DP25 is not making an observation without any truth whatsoever.

I agree but when all reference to perhaps the most salient issue is omitted the narrative becomes suspect or even useless.

Chris Baker is one authority but let's be quite clear.The outlandish view of Thai politics and history set out by DP25 and I quote:

" Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people."

- has no support in any quarter other than the tinfoil hat community.The key error is to suppose that there were no issues in Thai society that Thaksin was able to exploit.The argument can certainly be made that Thaksin acted cynically and through self interest.However if there had not been a groundswell throught the country against the elite's greed, patronising contempt and lack of fairness Thaksion would never have gained traction.That's why his parties win election after election despite the coup and the "directed" judicial system.

Jayboy - agree with you. Baker was the first to come to mind in response to demands for a name... a question most anyone could have answered for themselves.

You will have point out to me the page or chapter where Chris Baker argues against DP25 opinion, as I have never seen it.

I found Jayboy's (initial) interjection rather brusque and presumptive; so I phrased my 'demand' accordingly. I dont disagree that much with Jayboy, but I think its not that unfair to say that both Jayboy and DP25 emphasise the different aspects of Thaksin's rise to power and enduring popularity.

As I said before I dont think they are incompatible, both are part of the narrative, you cant ignore either.

Edited March 27, 2012 by longway

[Thai at Heart]

And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money.

That's the only reason any of them were with Thaksin to begin. Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people.

So the feudal locals simply chose to get a new jockey?

[TAWP]

The narrative from the parliament today was that PTP was lining up to defend Sonthi. Soon someone here will call PTP coupists...

[waza]

Yingluck to propose establishment of nuclear monitoring network

March 27, 2012 12:31 pm

Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Tuesday joined the leaders of more than 50 nations attending the 2012 Seoul Nuclear Summit, which is focusing on achieving more specific actions to prevent nuclear terrorism and to ensure atomic safety.

For some reason I prefer her in this pic, if only she would use her talents for good instead of evil.

Edited March 27, 2012 by waza

[JAG]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

What did Sonthi have to do with the Democrats forming government?

He was a General.

[MaiChai]

It seems in Thailand that you win elections by bribing the population to vote for you. On that basis, how can you ever have a party voted in that the people really want? Not to mention, parties who have good ideas and sound fiscal policy? Which then begs the question, how can democracy ever get a foothold here? So we conclude that things that happen in government do not have to have any sound logic? Which begs the question, why do we try to understand it?

[whybother]

Sonthi was the one and only reason that the democrats could form a government. They never won an election they never will win one. THey have to bend over very deeply of Sonthi and his criminal friends pass bye. Without them Suthep was never be able to steal that much, the Democrats were never be able to distribute rotten fish to victims in Izan and their CP friends would never be able to make much money off a rotten deal with the CAT.

It seems that Suthep and Abhisit are mooing even quicker to the International Court of Justice than expected.

What did Sonthi have to do with the Democrats forming government?

He was a General.

And?

[lannarebirth]

And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money.

That's the only reason any of them were with Thaksin to begin. Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people.

That is the essence of all Thaksin parties. Simply a coalition of long established provincial nak leng and chao por. He protects their interest to continue to feed at the provincial trough while they allow him to feed at the national and international trough.

[lannarebirth]

You will have point out to me the page or chapter where Chris Baker argues against DP25 opinion, as I have never seen it.

I found Jayboy's (initial) interjection rather brusque and presumptive; so I phrased my 'demand' accordingly. I dont disagree that much with Jayboy, but I think its not that unfair to say that both Jayboy and DP25 emphasise the different aspects of Thaksin's rise to power and enduring popularity.

Chapter One Chris Baker argues the point DP25 has made.

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=-gW9Z0-q_xwC&pg=PA53&hl=th&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

[sparebox2]

And Nevin who told Thaksin 'Its all over boss' and ran like a rat for money.

That's the only reason any of them were with Thaksin to begin. Thaksin's entire political strategy was based on exploiting the traditional feudal structures already in place, especially in Isaan. He was the first person rich enough to unite all them in to one party. Thaksin's party was never some kind of spontaneous grass roots movement, it was a coalition of existing political dynasties that had ruled their medieval fiefs for decades and continue to do so to this day. There was never any change, anywhere. And there certainly wasn't much ideological reason for them to unite, as they have no ideology other then stuffing their own fat faces at the expense of the people.

That is the essence of all Thaksin parties. Simply a coalition of long established provincial nak leng and chao por. He protects their interest to continue to feed at the provincial trough while they allow him to feed at the national and international trough.

Newin said over boss, because he quit politics and have gone into football ever since.

[volk666]

Now knowing the penalties of party dissolution do you honestly believe that the executive goes out of their way to tell everybody in the party to "buy a few votes but make sure you're not caught, we've got to win seats"?

Actually I do, but it's rather "get votes" rather than "buy votes", paying a few hundred baht is crude and ineffective, it's not 1995 anymore. And I believe they say "make sure it does not lead to me" which means there's no widespread, top down perpetrated fraud on the scale of April 2006 failed elections when TRT honchos ordered creation of fake parties, paid everyone off and bribed EC official to tamper with EC database.

For a year after that no one in that "institution" thought it was wrong and anyone should have been punished, their dissolution was a good lesson for everyone (if you want cleaner elections, that is).

That showed that there's at least semblance of the rule of law in this country.

And that's basically what it boils down to - should there be rules or should Thailand be a jungle where people with power have absolutely no responsibility.

There are millions of Thais here who can't imagine a country where there are no laws, they have no rights, and don't have any resort to protect themselves from any kind of abuse by politicians in power and those connected to them.

Eventually Thakins will establish some kind of law, just as there was law in USSR and there were rules, but the transitional period is going to be very very messy and purges will last for years if not decades.

[phiphidon]

Now knowing the penalties of party dissolution do you honestly believe that the executive goes out of their way to tell everybody in the party to "buy a few votes but make sure you're not caught, we've got to win seats"?

Actually I do, but it's rather "get votes" rather than "buy votes", paying a few hundred baht is crude and ineffective, it's not 1995 anymore. And I believe they say "make sure it does not lead to me" which means there's no widespread, top down perpetrated fraud on the scale of April 2006 failed elections when TRT honchos ordered creation of fake parties, paid everyone off and bribed EC official to tamper with EC database.

For a year after that no one in that "institution" thought it was wrong and anyone should have been punished, their dissolution was a good lesson for everyone (if you want cleaner elections, that is).

That showed that there's at least semblance of the rule of law in this country.

And that's basically what it boils down to - should there be rules or should Thailand be a jungle where people with power have absolutely no responsibility.

There are millions of Thais here who can't imagine a country where there are no laws, they have no rights, and don't have any resort to protect themselves from any kind of abuse by politicians in power and those connected to them.

Eventually Thakins will establish some kind of law, just as there was law in USSR and there were rules, but the transitional period is going to be very very messy and purges will last for years if not decades.

So you're quite prepared to say that the present government are there because they won a clean fair election?

[Thai at Heart]

Now knowing the penalties of party dissolution do you honestly believe that the executive goes out of their way to tell everybody in the party to "buy a few votes but make sure you're not caught, we've got to win seats"?

Actually I do, but it's rather "get votes" rather than "buy votes", paying a few hundred baht is crude and ineffective, it's not 1995 anymore. And I believe they say "make sure it does not lead to me" which means there's no widespread, top down perpetrated fraud on the scale of April 2006 failed elections when TRT honchos ordered creation of fake parties, paid everyone off and bribed EC official to tamper with EC database.

For a year after that no one in that "institution" thought it was wrong and anyone should have been punished, their dissolution was a good lesson for everyone (if you want cleaner elections, that is).

That showed that there's at least semblance of the rule of law in this country.

And that's basically what it boils down to - should there be rules or should Thailand be a jungle where people with power have absolutely no responsibility.

There are millions of Thais here who can't imagine a country where there are no laws, they have no rights, and don't have any resort to protect themselves from any kind of abuse by politicians in power and those connected to them.

Eventually Thakins will establish some kind of law, just as there was law in USSR and there were rules, but the transitional period is going to be very very messy and purges will last for years if not decades.

Try being a married farang with a private business over here. You get used to it after a while.

they have no rights, and don't have any resort to protect themselves from any kind of abuse.

[volk666]

So you're quite prepared to say that the present government are there because they won a clean fair election?

I think it's bl00dy obvious that PTP has won the elections fair and square according to the current set of rules. Was there some vote buying that went unpunished? Possibly, but that wouldn't have changed the outcome anyway - the scale of victory was overwhelming.

Were people duped into "One tablet per child" giveaways and promise of 300 baht minimum wage - yes, but they have only themselves to blame for believing such obvious crap, it's not against the rules to play on electorate stupidity and it will be a valuable lesson for the general public.

[lannarebirth]

So the Democrats took the high road and said F*** Sonthi and F**** Thaksin. That's a step in the right direction. Maybe the fugitive ex PM and the coupmaker can share a cell in the spirit of reconcilliation.

[Thai at Heart]

So the Democrats took the high road and said F*** Sonthi and F**** Thaksin. That's a step in the right direction. Maybe the fugitive ex PM and the coupmaker can share a cell in the spirit of reconcilliation.

I wouldn't want to take odds on that one.....