American Accused Of Sexually Assaulting 13 Year Old Girl, Arrested By Pattaya Police

[NewlyMintedThai]

No one has any rights at all if you get on the wrong side of the wrong powerful people, lots of farang "commit suicide" or just disappear and no one even hears about it.

Dear God, not the old "farangs disappearing" chestnut again...

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

Sad to say, guilty, innocent or even accused, it's people like that which give Thailand its "miracle" reputation...Some things will never change.

[ReeceArnold]

Not innocent until proven guilty? ; if he's done it, he IS guilty now, just that he should not be penalized until it is clearly proven. Its not THAT easily clear. We must look at the big picture, this funtown we reside in, tends to lend itself to the development of such behaviour in some of the people here, the "girl in bar scene" does certainly suggest that it is acceptable to the city, to the society, to Thailand, or how could such a Hugh thriving business grow into the town that is Pattaya. There are often some quite young girls out there, some quite may appear younger or older that their real age, most under aged girls would certainly lie about their age. Only a handful of hotels really check the age of girls with men. (lets say at this point, that; a 12 year old can not be made out/ made up to look like an 18 year old, maybe a 14year old, but not a 12 year old, don't think so ) further more, the supplier who is now looking for brownie points to reduce her sentence, possibly even to get off Scot free, might be motivated to exaggerate the truth, add bits, etc, do they have the 12year old eyewitness who can pin the guy in a lineup or the likes of that? Even if totally guilty, did he know she was that young, was that his desire, or for example, was he persuaded to help finance someone in need? Rather than letting the poor girl go into the bar scene, there could be a lot to need understanding before a guy is hung by a rope.

Note that ; an overdose sized quantity of opium is an affordable option for inmates who can't afford the get out of gaol free card, that is if you can't handle life in the Nong pla lai prison, it is really not nice in there, really really not nice, inmates get old within weeks, if the guy is wrongly inprisoned, that would be terrible.

On the other hand, kids, although they are very resilient, should never be abused, the sad thing is that a varying degree of abuse goes on everywhere. I was contacted by the American FBI, years ago, about a neighbour and I was shocked to learn that he had bad habits/ history, what was my reaction ; get the guy, any help asked of, I offered, and I warned all the other neighbours to keep kids away, was I correct in my reaction, ? Its hard to play god, even when your day job is simply a "developmental specialist to young children" , with a strong interest in social psychology, how will the local coppers get this right?

[ubeturazz]

Some Thai man has run off my wife's 13 year old Grand daughter from Singburi to Bangkok, the Mother told the police but when the man said he would pay for the loss of face the Mother/police have forgotten about it, that was 8 months ago, no money has been seen as of yet

that you know of...

[theoldgit]

Read my post again, please.

Reporting the arrests is not what bothers me, but it's a shame that media name and shame suspects.

Thought I couldn't have been much clearer.

And the normal photoshoots where the accused is sat at a table with all the goons standing behind crammed into the photo shoot beggars belief, how can anyone get a fair and meaningful trial after this circus?

[anterian]

I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does. I think most of us who have lived here in Thai communities have seen this happening, money changes hands and that's the end of it. When I moved into my present home 6 years ago, several mothers inquired of my Thai partner if I would be interested in their daughters.

Well, congratulations. We have a running bet how long it will take to flip any crime, incident or misfortune to the behavior of Thais. You have gone above and beyond, by suggesting that a normal healthy person can be swayed to perpetrate the lowest and most foul act of all, the rape of a child by the voodoo power of evil Thais.

Of course, we all know the root cause, and evil empire that rules the minds of all Thais and eventually corrupts angelic westerns. Yes, you guessed it! It is none other than the Jet Ski Mafia. They are much like the Borg, and resistance is futile. They will corrupt you soon, and make you do unthinkable deeds. Your virtue and ethics will evaporate, and you too will be reduced to human slime!

Run I say! Run as fast as you can! Find safety back on your Golden Virgin Soil. Hurry, before the dreaded Jet Ski Mafia destroooooooooooys you!

I think congratulations are more deserved by you, not only for failing to understand my post, but for a totally juvenile response.

OK let me break it down for you>

Here is your statement:>> "I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does"

",,,,this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais" implies that Thais are pedophiles.

",,,,persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does" suggest that Farang are victims who have been lured into becoming child molesters.

I have not misunderstood your response. I have taken your posting literally.

My hope is that "thou does not protest too loudly"...since we do not know how you responded to the offer of paid companionship of a minor. Of course, we presume that the outcome was one you, i and any civilized person would hope for and be proud of. And i am not suggesting otherwise.

Firstly your allusions are distasteful and insulting, however leaving that aside, I would like to point out that I refer to Thais because this is a Thai focused forum. The concept of "age of consent" {which is the basis of defining paedophilia), is a recent western concept. I say recent because until the industrial revolution child marriage (legalised paedophilia) was commonplace, even in Victorian times it was relatively common, even amongst royalty and nobility.

Elsewhere in the world from India through the whole of Asia and Africa (And this includes Thailand), child marriage was, and is, still common. Many religions particularly Hindu and Moslem endorse child marriage, as do some Christian cults, it is the Protestant Christian Church which sees it as a sin. There is a correlation between the rise of paedophilia and the decline of the Protestant ethos ably assisted by a global growth in a "pop" culture that emphasises early sexuality.

In summary I could have made an identical remark if this was an Indian forum or an African one, I think it is actually you who protests too loudly, rather like a former smoker who now roundly condemns those who smoke.

[farang000999]

I thought Americans only talked about sex.

Incidentally, if this man is truly guilty, when he is finished here, he will have to face criminal charges in the U.S. It is a violation of U.S. federal statutes for an American to engage in sex with an individual in a foreign country under the age of 18, even if the age of consent in that country is 14, as it is in Switzerland, whether consensual or not. I believe the U.K. has similar legislation.

Maybe Americans do have sex, but only abroad.

I think that only applies to prostitution, not consensual sex.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Read my post again, please.

Reporting the arrests is not what bothers me, but it's a shame that media name and shame suspects.

Thought I couldn't have been much clearer.

And the normal photoshoots where the accused is sat at a table with all the goons standing behind crammed into the photo shoot beggars belief, how can anyone get a fair and meaningful trial after this circus?

It's not trial by jury here. People are acquitted all the time due to lack of evidence, photoshoots or no photoshoots.

[ableguy]

if true another silly old man who should know better and thought more with his brain than his dick

if guilty

I am not one to normally jump on the hang em high bandwagon but sexually assaulting a 12 year old girl is a little bit more than silly if, as you qualify, he is actually guilty. Whereas there are certain 'encounters' here which some may call questionable for any number of reasons such as faked ID and the occasional difficulty of identifying the age of some women this is not one of them.

Who placed this child in such a position ? who took her virginity ? there are more people here to persue but I guess that will be forgotten/

[gand]

if true another silly old man who should know better and thought more with his brain than his dick

if guilty

I am not one to normally jump on the hang em high bandwagon but sexually assaulting a 12 year old girl is a little bit more than silly if, as you qualify, he is actually guilty. Whereas there are certain 'encounters' here which some may call questionable for any number of reasons such as faked ID and the occasional difficulty of identifying the age of some women this is not one of them.

Who placed this child in such a position ? who took her virginity ? there are more people here to persue but I guess that will be forgotten/

True,

Has anybody ever heard of even one Thai being arrested for doing this? Is it part of their culture to do this kind of thing? Why do they only arrest farangs? Shouldn't they also arrest Thais? Shouldn't this apply to everyone?

[Orac]

if true another silly old man who should know better and thought more with his brain than his dick

if guilty

I am not one to normally jump on the hang em high bandwagon but sexually assaulting a 12 year old girl is a little bit more than silly if, as you qualify, he is actually guilty. Whereas there are certain 'encounters' here which some may call questionable for any number of reasons such as faked ID and the occasional difficulty of identifying the age of some women this is not one of them.

Who placed this child in such a position ? who took her virginity ? there are more people here to persue but I guess that will be forgotten/

True,

Has anybody ever heard of even one Thai being arrested for doing this? Is it part of their culture to do this kind of thing? Why do they only arrest farangs? Shouldn't they also arrest Thais? Shouldn't this apply to everyone?

I thought the 'procurer' had been arrested previously - I was assuming this was a Thai.

[NewlyMintedThai]

if true another silly old man who should know better and thought more with his brain than his dick

if guilty

I am not one to normally jump on the hang em high bandwagon but sexually assaulting a 12 year old girl is a little bit more than silly if, as you qualify, he is actually guilty. Whereas there are certain 'encounters' here which some may call questionable for any number of reasons such as faked ID and the occasional difficulty of identifying the age of some women this is not one of them.

Who placed this child in such a position ? who took her virginity ? there are more people here to persue but I guess that will be forgotten/

True,

Has anybody ever heard of even one Thai being arrested for doing this? Is it part of their culture to do this kind of thing? Why do they only arrest farangs? Shouldn't they also arrest Thais? Shouldn't this apply to everyone?

Yes, Thais also face this charge -- more often than foreigners even. You haven't heard of any cases becauae it is only considered "news" to the English press if a foreigner is involved.

[theoldgit]

It's not trial by jury here. People are acquitted all the time due to lack of evidence, photoshoots or no photoshoots.

I'm fully aware of that, but I have never understood the need for these idiots to cram themselves into a photoshoot othen than the desire to make them look important, which of course it doesn't.

[gand]

I am not one to normally jump on the hang em high bandwagon but sexually assaulting a 12 year old girl is a little bit more than silly if, as you qualify, he is actually guilty. Whereas there are certain 'encounters' here which some may call questionable for any number of reasons such as faked ID and the occasional difficulty of identifying the age of some women this is not one of them.

Who placed this child in such a position ? who took her virginity ? there are more people here to persue but I guess that will be forgotten/

True,

Has anybody ever heard of even one Thai being arrested for doing this? Is it part of their culture to do this kind of thing? Why do they only arrest farangs? Shouldn't they also arrest Thais? Shouldn't this apply to everyone?

Yes, Thais also face this charge -- more often than foreigners even. You haven't heard of any cases becauae it is only considered "news" to the English press if a foreigner is involved.

Only in the local media then, in Thai language?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Only in the local media then, in Thai language?

Yes.

[Gone]

if true another silly old man who should know better and thought more with his brain than his dick

if guilty

I am not one to normally jump on the hang em high bandwagon but sexually assaulting a 12 year old girl is a little bit more than silly if, as you qualify, he is actually guilty. Whereas there are certain 'encounters' here which some may call questionable for any number of reasons such as faked ID and the occasional difficulty of identifying the age of some women this is not one of them.

Who placed this child in such a position ? who took her virginity ? there are more people here to persue but I guess that will be forgotten/

True,

Has anybody ever heard of even one Thai being arrested for doing this? Is it part of their culture to do this kind of thing? Why do they only arrest farangs? Shouldn't they also arrest Thais? Shouldn't this apply to everyone?

They do arrest Thai's almost every day. If you could read Thai and bought newspapers from every area in Thailand you would add them up very quickly. The English newspapers only report the Farang ones because Thai's living in deepest darkest Essaan don't buy the BP or the Nation.

[maprao]

I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does. I think most of us who have lived here in Thai communities have seen this happening, money changes hands and that's the end of it. When I moved into my present home 6 years ago, several mothers inquired of my Thai partner if I would be interested in their daughters.

Well, congratulations. We have a running bet how long it will take to flip any crime, incident or misfortune to the behavior of Thais. You have gone above and beyond, by suggesting that a normal healthy person can be swayed to perpetrate the lowest and most foul act of all, the rape of a child by the voodoo power of evil Thais.

Of course, we all know the root cause, and evil empire that rules the minds of all Thais and eventually corrupts angelic westerns. Yes, you guessed it! It is none other than the Jet Ski Mafia. They are much like the Borg, and resistance is futile. They will corrupt you soon, and make you do unthinkable deeds. Your virtue and ethics will evaporate, and you too will be reduced to human slime!

Run I say! Run as fast as you can! Find safety back on your Golden Virgin Soil. Hurry, before the dreaded Jet Ski Mafia destroooooooooooys you!

I think congratulations are more deserved by you, not only for failing to understand my post, but for a totally juvenile response.

OK let me break it down for you>

Here is your statement:>> "I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does"

",,,,this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais" implies that Thais are pedophiles.

",,,,persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does" suggest that Farang are victims who have been lured into becoming child molesters.

I have not misunderstood your response. I have taken your posting literally.

My hope is that "thou does not protest too loudly"...since we do not know how you responded to the offer of paid companionship of a minor. Of course, we presume that the outcome was one you, i and any civilized person would hope for and be proud of. And i am not suggesting otherwise.

and he still does not get it!

[smotherb]

Petercool,

We can only go on what the report says and it says he eluded police in various ways, faked his immigration reports and was a customer of a caught procurer of under age girls. I struggle to find the innocence in any of that.

Struggle a little more, there may be some wiggle-room--

If our bumpkin frequently moved from place to place, which some people do, it may be perceived as eluding the police and faking immigration reports; rather than just being a previously reported residence.

A caught procurer--against whom we have neither evidence nor court conviction--has given up our bumpkin. If she is guilty . . . can you struggle a bit . . .and, if she is not guilty . . . just struggle a little bit more . . . in either event, can you wiggle-out why she would do that?

Reportedly, our bumpkin was arrested based on a reported criminal's word and the fact he had sex-medication, condoms, and a video camera--unless the five motorcycles, pick-up and sedan are suspect. He . . . struggle again . . . denied the charges.

So, as you suggested, 'We can only go on what the report says,' and until we know more, we don't know.

[smotherb]

Well, it seems that "....gave seven false addresses to the Immigration Police" is seven charges they have to work with right out of the gate. That should keep him under lock and key until they get the evidence required for the second level of charges. I wonder if they were to interview the child in question, she might be able to furnish details about the suspect that are impossible to refute. Like... tattoos - scars - a specific description of his home - if he employed a camera - if he spoke any Thai - his favorite beverage - the color of the pills he took - any "toys" he owned - details about his "member" - or any antidote about his personal life only she might know... etc. Even in a set up---those would be impossible to know without some contact. When they send him to hell on earth (Thai prison) it would be nice to think his special treatment is deserved without question.

Frankly, I tend to beleive a man on the run...has a reason to. Think about it. He had a long stay Visa, but lied 7 times about his address, transferred his wealth to others, switched addresses often, and cars. Hmmmmmm....wonder why.

Oh...I think I know. He is a pedifile on the run?....yes, that could be it.

RichardinBKK,

Ah, yee of little faith. Let's imagiine another dime novel plot-line. Suppose our frequent-mover loving bumpkin recently caught his true love--who used to be #73 at the New Cherry Massage--in a compromising position with her Thai boyfriend. Whereupon our bereaved bumpkin called her a whore, kicked her out, and stopped her lucrative allowance. Now, loss of face being as it is, our defamed damsel takes revenge by hiring a sex procurer and one of her sexual minions to frame the buffalo bumpkin. Our slandered lilly, of course, 'might be able to furnish details about the suspect that are impossible to refute.'

Preposterous! Nothing like that has ever happened in Thailand.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

And the normal photoshoots where the accused is sat at a table with all the goons standing behind crammed into the photo shoot beggars belief, how can anyone get a fair and meaningful trial after this circus?

What makes you think you have the right to a fair and meaningful trial here?

It may happen, it may not, but it's not something you can just expect to happen in the normal course of things here. If that's important to you, you need to live somewhere where rule of law is important.

Who placed this child in such a position ? who took her virginity ? there are more people here to persue but I guess that will be forgotten/

For everyone who start talking about local culture, prevalence of abuse here etc. all that is completely irrelevant. Approach things from a completely practical point of view, dealing with reality as it presents itself. The only thing you can do is regulate your own behavior.

If you get caught in the net, the best you can hope for is to pay off the locals and be allowed to flee. Worst case your face shows up in the media and you trigger another farce thread on TV.

If you want to be sure to prevent this, follow these simple rules:

Unless you are 100% sure by looking at her that she is over say 25, get a look at her ID card - of course you need to learn how recognize a valid ID and to interpret the Thai years.

If she doesn't have the original ID, let her know she won't be considered until she can produce it.

If she is under 18, don't even consider it. If she is under 20, think hard, because you can still be blackmailed/prosecuted if anyone could consider this a commercial transaction rather than true love.

Departing from these rules puts you at risk, no matter the context - upcountry village negotiating directly with the parents, in the back of a Pattaya blowjob bar, student flirting with you her teacher, hairdressing salon, coffee shop, friend of a friend, doesn't matter.

Some of you are less risk-averse than others, so of course you will make up your own minds on where to draw the line.

Just don't fool yourself that any of the following are going to protect you, or have any validity from a moral POV.

- You've already married her.

- Many Thais have sex with young girls and don't get prosecuted.

- The Thais who were involved in putting me in touch with her aren't being prosecuted.

- She lost her virginity at 11 and has three babies upcountry with her mum.

- She is a professional sex worker and has been publicly freelancing for five years already.

- She's actually with you for love and you're sponsoring her education etc to have a wonderful future.

Full stop, period, end of story, there isn't any "formula" for having sex with a girl under 20 that will protect you if you're singled out, and it doesn't do much good to be crying for years in the Bangkok Hilton about how unfair the world is.

In fact, I'm pretty sure if it were simply up to the Thais, this whole thing would still be a non-issue, except for extreme cases of obvious wrong-doing. However our own governments - and the NGOs they fund - spend a lot of money, time and energy to make sure that their "back home" standards are applied to their countries' citizens while playing in Thailand.

Perhaps they should be trying to change the Thai-on-Thai problems, but realistically they can't, so don't bother trying.

However they can and do make sure any western men misbehaving with young girls are singled out. If you want to complain about the injustice of this, go to your embassy and see what sort of reception you get.

[chaihot]

Ok perhaps it is just me but please correct me if Im wrong. (as I am sure you guys will ) There seems to be a distinct lack of evidence supporting the prosecutions case. There is simply some pimp lady whose details we know little of saying that he did it, he did 2x12 year olds.

It is terrible to defend a pedophile however I see nothing wrong with defending the otherwise innocent. The police coin this phrase a lot "Innocent UNTIL proven guilty" as it has the unconcious sugestion that ultimately there will be guilt found. However the real phrase from the bar is actually "Innocent UNLESS proven guilty". This man at this point in time, I have to say I feel for as there is nothing but some already caught child sex traffiker who is throwing around accusations. Unfortunately this matter has not been handled properly and if he is guilty a sting opperation would have been the right way to go. They mention they raided his house, took a camera. No mention of anything found. It would suggest by its abscence that there is no evidence , naughty pics etc.. They must have his cell phone conveying messages to the pimp. Howevere that is not mentioned so they probably do not have that either.

The real criminal here is the Pimp as they are making admissions of being a child sex traffiker. Yet the focus is on an american to whom there is no evidence to support the fact. I hope that person gets a full wack. However the American??? there is zero evidence to support the accusation. (at least as it is reported to us here).

Innocent UNLESS proven guilty.

A very well written, thought-out reply that SHOULD make a reader consider everything. I wish more people put this much honest thought into their posts.

Thank you.

[petercool]

He will have his day in court hopefully with a lawyer.

Whatever evidence is there or not there will dictate the outcome.

Everything else is speculation.