Thai Democrats Set Sights On 2015 Victory

[AleG]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

Both Thaksin and Abhisit administrations had corruption cases among same party and coalition members.

Why don't you make a list of corrupt cases, resignations and prosecutions during Thaksin and his proxies governments?

The difference between Abhisit and Thakisin is that Thaksin used his position as PM to plunder the country and further his business interests.

[scorecard]

I've got a 15 point plan for them. Get rid of these guys and get others not despised by the majority of the electorate;

1 Abhisit Vejjajiva

2 Chuan Leekpai

3 Banyat Bantadtan

4 Thirdpong Jayananda

5 Jurin Laksanaviseth

6 Korn Chatikavanij

7 Khunying Kalaya Sophonphanich

8 Apirak Kosayothin

9 Trairong Suwankhiri

10 Chamni Sakdiseth

11 Paithoon Kaewthong

12 Issara Somchai

13 Charoenkhanthawong

14 Alongkorn Pollabutr

15 Arkom Engchuan

Wow such a clever post. Make a list of 15 dems then claim they are all nasty.

Is this one of the amsterdam lessons?

[scorecard]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

Nobody ever said that the abhisit government or the dem governments before it were squeaky clean,

What I will say is that abhisit, IMHO, was, in the last overnment a beacon of lite working in a snake pit.

[scorecard]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

So one can interprete your post to mean that thakins blemishes, because they are easy to see, are therefore OK.

Not the sort of lesson I'd like my kids to hear.

Or put it another way, if your OPENLY corrupt it's ok! Is that your message gkid?

Edited March 31, 2012 by scorecard

[h90]

I've got a 15 point plan for them. Get rid of these guys and get others not despised by the majority of the electorate;

1 Abhisit Vejjajiva

2 Chuan Leekpai

3 Banyat Bantadtan

4 Thirdpong Jayananda

5 Jurin Laksanaviseth

6 Korn Chatikavanij

7 Khunying Kalaya Sophonphanich

8 Apirak Kosayothin

9 Trairong Suwankhiri

10 Chamni Sakdiseth

11 Paithoon Kaewthong

12 Issara Somchai

13 Charoenkhanthawong

14 Alongkorn Pollabutr

15 Arkom Engchuan

Specially Abhisit (and before Suthep) is a guarantee that even some Democrats don't vote for them.

Get rid of them? I hope you don't mean that in a Chalerm-type way!

The party should get rid of them.....Retire them....Not meant the Chalerm way.....I am bored by the democrats but they aren't murder.....

They also don't have sons who murder or let 3000 people be murdered in a war against drugs like others....

[tlansford]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

"It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity."

I agree with this statement and it concisely states my view of Abhisit as a politician. Both Abhisit and Thaksin have a documented histories that demonstrate a lack of integrity and intellectual honesty.

[tlansford]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

So one can interprete your post to mean that thakins blemishes, because they are easy to see, are therefore OK.

Not the sort of lesson I'd like my kids to hear.

Or put it another way, if your OPENLY corrupt it's ok! Is that your message gkid?

GK can answer for himself, but from my perspective, no, you cannot interpret his post that way. That is not what he wrote.

[tlansford]

It will be nice if the democrats actually follow through on developing a sound political constituency. This might lead to politicians recognizing that they represent people when they govern.

Oh, you mean like the hollow and cynical "populism" of the Thaksinistas?

hmmmm, wondering why taking a positive view toward the political development of the democratic party draws anti-red-shirt-venom as a response?

[hellodolly]

"Abhisit said his fellow Democrats wanted to lift the country's out of the persisting turmoil fuelled by the power struggle in order to devote attention to address structural issues like the economic disparity and social injustice"

What 'persistent turmoil fuelled by the power struggle"?........ I suppose the Democrats can be forgiven for thinking there must be turmoil if they are not governing, but that is not reality......... Is there more of a 'power struggle' here in Thailand than between the Republicans and Democrats in the USA, or between the Conservatives and Labour in Great Britain? I don't think so. Just normal political discord between competing political forces that elections serve to regulate.

That aside, political conventions following a significant electoral defeat normally include a leadership review. Obviously not in this case, or at least I haven't seen any reference to it.

OK genius you think there is no power struggle. Why is Thaksin not here in Thailand it is not as if they haven't tried.

Nor will you. Did you think you were the only one with part of his f-c-e so far up Thaksin that there was a chance of a leadership revue. It is very crowded in there. Face it he is the leader and you can revue all you want.

At least the Dem's elected there leader he didn't buy his job with money stolen from tax payers.

[hellodolly]

"unveiling the 15-point strategy "

Seems like everybody in parliament could do with learning the "12 steps" first....

-mel.

That would be to complicated for them.

[hellodolly]

Well at least he didn't get his money with corruption like Thaksin (mobile phone license...)

LOL, that's the best you can do?

You do know the Abhisit family history, right? You might want to check out his father. I think young Abhisit did benefit from dad.

Are you saying h90 is rite Abhist is clean and Thaksin is corrupt.

[hellodolly]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

Nobody ever said that the abhisit government or the dem governments before it were squeaky clean,

What I will say is that abhisit, IMHO, was, in the last overnment a beacon of lite working in a snake pit.

And many of those snakes were Thaksin trained.

[hellodolly]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

"It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity."

I agree with this statement and it concisely states my view of Abhisit as a politician. Both Abhisit and Thaksin have a documented histories that demonstrate a lack of integrity and intellectual honesty.

Well I certainly am not a big fan of Abhist (the way the army jumped when he said jump put me off) but be that as it may he is far and away the better man for the post. You seem to conveniently forget that he not like the present government had to please many others to get any thing done. You all so conveniently overlook the PT's armed red shirts that he had to deal with. You do remember that they negotiate a treaty only to have the red shirts back out of it and carry on with their illegal seizure of down town Bangkok.

You like a couple of other posters here think Abhist was like Thaksin and his sister Yingluck and could do any thing they wanted they didn't have to listen to their supporters.

Have you forgot where 40 of the votes for Abhist came from. Renegades from Thaksin's party who had been trained in the way of corruption by a master and were smart enough to see his ship was sinking so to save their own ass and keep the money rolling in they abandoned him.

[longway]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

"It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity."

I agree with this statement and it concisely states my view of Abhisit as a politician. Both Abhisit and Thaksin have a documented histories that demonstrate a lack of integrity and intellectual honesty.

Trying to compare equate Thaksin ethics as being the same as Abhisit's is laughable and says alot about yours and GKs intellectual honesty. Abhisit has many faliings, weakness, being one of the main ones, but compared to Thaksin he is a saint.

You could say that Abhisit did everything he had to do to become PM, whereas Thaksin did everything he could do to become PM and is doing everything he can do to regain his position, he has no moral restraints and is more or less out of control. Its a big difference.

As for the makeup analogy;Thaksin not only applies the make up, he has had the plastic surgery, he wears the fancy skirts, has had the boob job and the sex change and has hired an expensive publicist to try to appear as something he is not, but still looks hideous in bright lights. You and GK are like the guys who take a katoey home from a bar, out of a roomful of real women, and pretend the next day you never knew to your mates.

Abhisit is now tainted as a murderer and a political whore without a doubt, but that doesnt seem to be more than a temporary hindrance in thai politics, though I think that perhaps 3015 would be more realistic target given their electioneering competence.

Edited March 31, 2012 by longway

[tlansford]

Apisit has been an excellent MP for the last 20 years. I remember his education reform plans back in the Chuan government, but Pheua Thai don't want real reform of course,just hand out some tablets without any thorough planning.

Btw Geriatic Kid, I disagree with your comments about the quality of the Democrats' ministers in recent years.

In the last government Apisit, Korn, Jurin,Ong-art all did a good job in my view, and let's not forget capable men such as Dr Supachai and Dr Surin.

I was thinking along the same lines as one of the above posters as to whether an increasingly middle class Thailand would benefit the Democrats. I'd like to think so.

You either have a spotty memory or are intentionally neglecting that his rule was characterized by gross negligence in allowing multiple corruption scandals. He was supposed to be Mr. Clean was't he?

- His government's Community Self-Sufficiency Project, was wracked by allegations of irregularities including overpriced equipment, transfer of funds to politically connected villages before project approval and a lack of consultation with participating communities. Deputy Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu resigned as chairman of the project and his younger brother Prapoj Sabhavasu resigned as deputy director of the office.

- Remember the scandal with the government's plan to lease, at inflated costs natural gas-fired buses for mass transport in Bangkok? Despite all the evidence presented his cabinet approved the 64 billion baht contract. I believe that this could be considered a handout to the BJT to keep them onside as they were the ones in charge of the MoT.

- How about his dealings with BJT boss Newin Chidchob and how Newin and his 43 other co-accused in corruption on the rubber saplings procurement project were acquitted. Had he lost his BJT friends his government would have fallen.

- How about his 13 disqualified MPs for conflict of interest improprieties? He didn't act to remove them from caucus until forced into action by the judiciary. Remember Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who was forced to give up his seat but through a legal loophole hung on to his ministerial positions?

- Remember the allegations that the democrats illegally received 258 million baht for the 2005 general election from publicly listed company TPI Polene through a nominee advertising entity.

I like your reference to former Democrat PM Chuan Leekpai. Didn't his government collapse because of the land scandal in Phuket? Remember the former interior minister Sanan Kachornprasart who had to leave office over a corruption scandal? Abhisit made him a deputy PM. That was a genius move.

It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity.

Know what the difference between Abhisit and Thaksin is? You know what you are getting with Thaksin. It's like 2 girls; One wears makeup and the other doesn't. With Thaksin you see his blemishes and wrinkles. With Abhisit, he's got so much makeup on, you are dealing with the gal from Mac.

"It seems to me that everything Abhist did was predicated on getting to be PM and he certainly played fast and loose with his purported ethics and self professed integrity."

I agree with this statement and it concisely states my view of Abhisit as a politician. Both Abhisit and Thaksin have a documented histories that demonstrate a lack of integrity and intellectual honesty.

Trying to compare equate Thaksin ethics as being the same as Abhisit's is laughable and says alot about yours and GKs intellectual honesty. Abhisit has many faliings, weakness, being one of the main ones, but compared to Thaksin he is a saint.

You could say that Abhisit did everything he had to do to become PM, whereas Thaksin did everything he could do to become PM and is doing everything he can do to regain his position, he has no moral restraints and is more or less out of control. Its a big difference.

As for the makeup analogy;Thaksin not only applies the make up, he has had the plastic surgery, he wears the fancy skirts, has had the boob job and the sex change and has hired an expensive publicist to try to appear as something he is not, but still looks hideous in bright lights. You and GK are like the guys who take a katoey home from a bar, out of a roomful of real women, and pretend the next day you never knew to your mates.

Abhisit is now tainted as a murderer and a political whore without a doubt, but that doesnt seem to be more than a temporary hindrance in thai politics, though I think that perhaps 3015 would be more realistic target given their electioneering competence.

I am talking about why I fail to appreciate Abhisit - GK summarized it rather well. I do not compare the faults of the 2 former PMs.

If 2 people have demonstrated a lack of integrity, I do not see the usefulness of comparing their respective deficits in this situation. They are 2 different people. Their lack of integrity has been made visible in completely different circumstances. The commonality is that neither IMO is a person of integrity.

[Siam Simon]

I am talking about why I fail to appreciate Abhisit - GK summarized it rather well. I do not compare the faults of the 2 former PMs.

If 2 people have demonstrated a lack of integrity, I do not see the usefulness of comparing their respective deficits in this situation. They are 2 different people. Their lack of integrity has been made visible in completely different circumstances. The commonality is that neither IMO is a person of integrity.

But there is a substantive difference between Thaksin's integrity deficit and Abhisit's, imo, Tom: Thaksin is a ruthless, self-interest-driven businessman/CEO-type character; Abhisit is a well-meaning product of the upper class who weakly feels the need to defer to his 'elders', thus compromising his integrity (his 'elders', of course, being at least as ugly as Thaksin).

It's the difference between being weak and malleable and being a full-blown hard-faced ugly.

[tlansford]

I am talking about why I fail to appreciate Abhisit - GK summarized it rather well. I do not compare the faults of the 2 former PMs.

If 2 people have demonstrated a lack of integrity, I do not see the usefulness of comparing their respective deficits in this situation. They are 2 different people. Their lack of integrity has been made visible in completely different circumstances. The commonality is that neither IMO is a person of integrity.

But there is a substantive difference between Thaksin's integrity deficit and Abhisit's, imo, Tom: Thaksin is a ruthless, self-interest-driven businessman/CEO-type character; Abhisit is a well-meaning product of the upper class who weakly feels the need to defer to his 'elders', thus compromising his integrity (his 'elders', of course, being at least as ugly as Thaksin).

It's the difference between being weak and malleable and being a full-blown hard-faced ugly.

Siam Simon, my point about integrity/ethics is : 2 leaders with integrity will lead differently because they are different people. 2 leaders without integrity will lead differently for the same reason.

So I would say that the 2 men are different, but a lack of integrity is a lack of integrity.

BTW, I do not agree with your characterization of Abhisit above.

[bigbamboo]

I am talking about why I fail to appreciate Abhisit - GK summarized it rather well. I do not compare the faults of the 2 former PMs.

If 2 people have demonstrated a lack of integrity, I do not see the usefulness of comparing their respective deficits in this situation. They are 2 different people. Their lack of integrity has been made visible in completely different circumstances. The commonality is that neither IMO is a person of integrity.

But there is a substantive difference between Thaksin's integrity deficit and Abhisit's, imo, Tom: Thaksin is a ruthless, self-interest-driven businessman/CEO-type character; Abhisit is a well-meaning product of the upper class who weakly feels the need to defer to his 'elders', thus compromising his integrity (his 'elders', of course, being at least as ugly as Thaksin).

It's the difference between being weak and malleable and being a full-blown hard-faced ugly.

Siam Simon, my point about integrity/ethics is : 2 leaders with integrity will lead differently because they are different people. 2 leaders without integrity will lead differently for the same reason.

So I would say that the 2 men are different, but a lack of integrity is a lack of integrity.

BTW, I do not agree with your characterization of Abhisit above.

So let's get shot of the pair of them. And once they've gone make a start on the rest of the shameless politicians who are not worthy to hold office in Thailand.

[Orac]

I am talking about why I fail to appreciate Abhisit - GK summarized it rather well. I do not compare the faults of the 2 former PMs.

If 2 people have demonstrated a lack of integrity, I do not see the usefulness of comparing their respective deficits in this situation. They are 2 different people. Their lack of integrity has been made visible in completely different circumstances. The commonality is that neither IMO is a person of integrity.

But there is a substantive difference between Thaksin's integrity deficit and Abhisit's, imo, Tom: Thaksin is a ruthless, self-interest-driven businessman/CEO-type character; Abhisit is a well-meaning product of the upper class who weakly feels the need to defer to his 'elders', thus compromising his integrity (his 'elders', of course, being at least as ugly as Thaksin).

It's the difference between being weak and malleable and being a full-blown hard-faced ugly.

Siam Simon, my point about integrity/ethics is : 2 leaders with integrity will lead differently because they are different people. 2 leaders without integrity will lead differently for the same reason.

So I would say that the 2 men are different, but a lack of integrity is a lack of integrity.

BTW, I do not agree with your characterization of Abhisit above.

So let's get shot of the pair of them. And once they've gone make a start on the rest of the shameless politicians who are not worthy to hold office in Thailand.

You could try sending an open letter to the PM telling her what should be done but be warned that the last guy to try that found himself in very hot water not long after.