The Price Of A Rai

[jamescollister]

Any land anywhere you can build a house or factory on....whether it is worth it is another question.

Our 500k land is rice land, it was rice land when we bought it and was used as rice land for decades....it is still rice land now and only used for rice land.....so your definitions suck really as we can also build a house on it if we choose.

Though I think this topic has been covered well in the Issan forum already. You can not build anything with out planing permission. People seem to think it's a free for all, but the laws are there. A plot of rice land may always be a plot of rice land and you may never get permission to build anything but a hut. If the land is rice paddy and it is zoned for other uses it will add value. Sometime I think people miss this point. It's not just the title type, but also the usage that the land can be used for. All in all if buy land and are spending any real money get a land lawyer. Jim

[samsiam]

Any land anywhere you can build a house or factory on....whether it is worth it is another question.

Our 500k land is rice land, it was rice land when we bought it and was used as rice land for decades....it is still rice land now and only used for rice land.....so your definitions suck really as we can also build a house on it if we choose.

if real low lying rice paddy, you wont be able to build on it, unless filled. that usually comes at a cost too.

and no, you cant normally build a factory anywhere, logistic, utilities need to be in place. paved road, electricity, water, access for a pool of workers.

while english isnt my first, and wasnt my second language neither, you really try hard to stretch a twisted idea to prove right yourself, so, whatever makes you happy.

if you want to suggest to the OP that for growing rice, he needs to pay 500k/rai or near, else he does something wrong ( since you are obviously the rigth here), than in my opinion you wont help him much, but rather mislead.

one doesnt need on avarage 500k/rai to buy ricefield. period

Never said he needs to pay 500k to buy rice land.....said I did and it was worth it for me......so suggest you read proper like beforehand.

[samsiam]

Any land anywhere you can build a house or factory on....whether it is worth it is another question.

Our 500k land is rice land, it was rice land when we bought it and was used as rice land for decades....it is still rice land now and only used for rice land.....so your definitions suck really as we can also build a house on it if we choose.

Though I think this topic has been covered well in the Issan forum already. You can not build anything with out planing permission. People seem to think it's a free for all, but the laws are there.

We built a house on another block we own....no permission....no permit.....

[jamescollister]

Any land anywhere you can build a house or factory on....whether it is worth it is another question.

Our 500k land is rice land, it was rice land when we bought it and was used as rice land for decades....it is still rice land now and only used for rice land.....so your definitions suck really as we can also build a house on it if we choose.

Though I think this topic has been covered well in the Issan forum already. You can not build anything with out planing permission. People seem to think it's a free for all, but the laws are there.

We built a house on another block we own....no permission....no permit.....

Best of luck, but no planning permission means if there is a complaint the Government can knock it down at anytime. Of late in some areas the bulldozer have be working overtime.

As I said land zoned for farming is farm land, same as any western country. jim

[samsiam]

What are you on about.....you listen to too many wives tales.

Our land is chanote titled.....they will not be pulling anything down.

Because....there is a way about most things.......although we did not get a build permit or permission.....we had the electric connected before we even built and we now have an address book.

[andycrosby]

I Have to say I built mine then found out you had to ask, we went to the office thinking this is going to cost big time and the lady charged us 45 baht for some stamps I still dont understand but the wife said everything was ok now.

However I have seen the dozer go in on Kho Larn Island off pattaya a few years back and done about 20 houses in one go

[how241]

I think the best advise was giving by poster # 37 Quote: Farmland in Thailand is valued In a variety of ways.

Quality of land

Access to the land

Type of land title

Size of land

Local value

But the most important is Location,Location, and Location.

Pat

Good post.

[jamescollister]

What are you on about.....you listen to too many wives tales.

Our land is chanote titled.....they will not be pulling anything down.

Because....there is a way about most things.......although we did not get a build permit or permission.....we had the electric connected before we even built and we now have an address book.

samaiam, not old wives tales plan law of usage. Charnote is not an open tile to do as you wish. Permission to build needs to be obtain from what ever Government agency controls the land. With charnote the controlling agency is not the local Government, but the lands department in BKK. Just because the wifes 2 cousin works in the Amphor office and says everythings OK doesn't mean the Amphor has control of the land. Believe me if the Government or some one with pull wants a building gone, it's gone. I have land thats zoned industrial and had to get 3 different agencys to approve it, guy next door put in a gas station, no permission. Knocked down before he finished. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

What are you on about.....you listen to too many wives tales.

Our land is chanote titled.....they will not be pulling anything down.

Because....there is a way about most things.......although we did not get a build permit or permission.....we had the electric connected before we even built and we now have an address book.

samaiam, not old wives tales plan law of usage. Charnote is not an open tile to do as you wish. Permission to build needs to be obtain from what ever Government agency controls the land. With charnote the controlling agency is not the local Government, but the lands department in BKK. Just because the wifes 2 cousin works in the Amphor office and says everythings OK doesn't mean the Amphor has control of the land. Believe me if the Government or some one with pull wants a building gone, it's gone. I have land thats zoned industrial and had to get 3 different agencys to approve it, guy next door put in a gas station, no permission. Knocked down before he finished. Jim

Definitely not a one eyed statement Jimbo. Well put.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Friend from Kanchanaburi visiting.

Agricultural land in his area near Ban Kao is 30K - 50K per rai in his area, depending on proximity to road. This is for Por.Bor.Tor 5 documented land.

Reported to be enjoying a steady rise at the moment, due to construction of the road to Tawei on Burma's Andaman coast and the development that is expected to bring.

[jamescollister]

What are you on about.....you listen to too many wives tales.

Our land is chanote titled.....they will not be pulling anything down.

Because....there is a way about most things.......although we did not get a build permit or permission.....we had the electric connected before we even built and we now have an address book.

samaiam, not old wives tales plan law of usage. Charnote is not an open tile to do as you wish. Permission to build needs to be obtain from what ever Government agency controls the land. With charnote the controlling agency is not the local Government, but the lands department in BKK. Just because the wifes 2 cousin works in the Amphor office and says everythings OK doesn't mean the Amphor has control of the land. Believe me if the Government or some one with pull wants a building gone, it's gone. I have land thats zoned industrial and had to get 3 different agencys to approve it, guy next door put in a gas station, no permission. Knocked down before he finished. Jim

Definitely not a one eyed statement Jimbo. Well put.

Will have 2 eyes next month and on the first plane out, this is no land for old men. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

What are you on about.....you listen to too many wives tales.

Our land is chanote titled.....they will not be pulling anything down.

Because....there is a way about most things.......although we did not get a build permit or permission.....we had the electric connected before we even built and we now have an address book.

samaiam, not old wives tales plan law of usage. Charnote is not an open tile to do as you wish. Permission to build needs to be obtain from what ever Government agency controls the land. With charnote the controlling agency is not the local Government, but the lands department in BKK. Just because the wifes 2 cousin works in the Amphor office and says everythings OK doesn't mean the Amphor has control of the land. Believe me if the Government or some one with pull wants a building gone, it's gone. I have land thats zoned industrial and had to get 3 different agencys to approve it, guy next door put in a gas station, no permission. Knocked down before he finished. Jim

Definitely not a one eyed statement Jimbo. Well put.

Will have 2 eyes next month and on the first plane out, this is no land for old men. Jim

Reminds me of an old story about a one eyed cat walking backwards. "A" over apex. Good luck with the second eye. Perhaps a little insurance? Buy an eye patch and a parrot? Would fit right in your neck of the woods...

[h90]

The motorbike guy on our street just bought 3 rai in his hometown in Isaan. He paid 50.000 per rai.

He told in his area the land is super cheap as the kwais (his words) borrowed money from the bank that they can't pay back.

He told some borrowed just a few thousand Baht to loose a rater big place of land.

[Philatio]

Chiang Mai is anything from 100K per Rai to 1 million - and that is not in the city, I am talking arable farming land. Average these days here is 300K / Rai.

Anyone that thinks they can get 1 rai for 6K is dreaming!

[TommoPhysicist]

Chiang Mai is anything from 100K per Rai to 1 million - and that is not in the city, I am talking arable farming land. Average these days here is 300K / Rai.

Anyone that thinks they can get 1 rai for 6K is dreaming!

Who claimed they could?

I doubt you could buy farm land near there (with a chanote) for less than 500k per rai.

I was under the impression that land without a chanote could only be securely owned by someone born locally.

Edited April 16, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[somo]

Chiang Mai is anything from 100K per Rai to 1 million - and that is not in the city, I am talking arable farming land. Average these days here is 300K / Rai.

Anyone that thinks they can get 1 rai for 6K is dreaming!

Anyone who thinks they can make a profit farming land that cost them 330k/rai is also dreaming.

I thought we were talking about farming here not speculating on the price of land.

[loong]

Just in the interest of comparing

http://www.shropshirestar.com/farming/2012/02/24/shropshire-farmland-among-most-expensive-in-the-uk/

In the most expensive area of the UK farmland price averages 7,500 Pounds per acre. That would be 3,000 Pounds/ 150,000 Bt per Rai.

I know that overheads would be a lot higher in the UK, but if I was in the market and looking to invest in farmland, I certainly wouldn't be interested at 300,000 Bt per Rai. I'm talking about agricultural, not buiding land, obviously.

[TommoPhysicist]

In the most expensive area of the UK farmland price averages 7,500 Pounds per acre. That would be 3,000 Pounds/ 150,000 Bt per Rai.

I know that overheads would be a lot higher in the UK, but if I was in the market and looking to invest in farmland, I certainly wouldn't be interested at 300,000 Bt per Rai. I'm talking about agricultural, not buiding land, obviously.

I'm betting the reason for that is

1) The complete absence of cute young British girls begging their elderly foreign lovers to buy them a more few acres and offering to 'love them a long time'.

2) The foreigners not believing they can get around the UK planning laws and build whatever they like on the farmland.

Edited April 16, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[jamescollister]

Chiang Mai is anything from 100K per Rai to 1 million - and that is not in the city, I am talking arable farming land. Average these days here is 300K / Rai.

Anyone that thinks they can get 1 rai for 6K is dreaming!

Who claimed they could?

I doubt you could buy farm land near there (with a chanote) for less than 500k per rai.

I was under the impression that land without a chanote could only be securely owned by someone born locally.

There are some web sites that explain Thai land titles, but it is complex. There are some types of titles other than charnote that can be bought and sold, but these are not national titles. Most farm land in Thailand is/was Crown land and given to farmers to use. That type of land can not be sold or transfered to non family members. Family ties are some what elastic, so people often sell land to others who are allegedly related. Not really legal, but that's the way it has been done for years.

About 25 years ago the world bank and the Thai Government set of on a project to hand ownership of farm lands over to the farmers. This was to allow them to use the land with security of ownership and improve farming methods.

In my area there is no charnote land off the main road, most land is Crown land and if you don't use it you can and will lose it. The land will be given to landless people for farming. Here is where some people seem to get confused, land is administered by different Government agencys. Charnote can be issued on all these lands, but the charnote is just a national land register, it confers no more than ownership. It does not change what the land can be used for, if it is farm land that's all you can use it for, without applying to have the usage changed. You can apply to use the land for other purposes, but it is not granted by the local Amphor Office, but by the Government Department that oversees the land. Here there can be a problem, Amphors and local heads have been changing ownerships on bits of paper for years, so if can be a hard to find who is actually in control of certain lands. Where I live different agencys seem to have differing maps, my village may or may not be inside of a National Park. That village was there before there were national parks.

I am no expert on the subject and everytime I think I have a handle on how it all works something new comes up. As I said if you are going to spend real money buying land get a land lawyer, then you will at least have some offical paperwork not just a sub Gov. or other official witnessing the sale. Thais hate paying taxes and will sign land over, but not pay the transfer taxes and you end up with the paper work, but the land office computers will still show the owner as the previous owner.

It really can be a mine field if you are in the wrong place, not just for us, but Thais as well. Our local town has been growing over the years and expanded along the main road . The Amphor has control of the town area, but the town grow outward. Tesco/ Lotus came and the shops and homes that had been build on the road were under a different Department and had no permission to be there. They are not there now and no compensation was paid. Jim

[samsiam]

What are you on about.....you listen to too many wives tales.

Our land is chanote titled.....they will not be pulling anything down.

Because....there is a way about most things.......although we did not get a build permit or permission.....we had the electric connected before we even built and we now have an address book.

samaiam, not old wives tales plan law of usage. Charnote is not an open tile to do as you wish. Permission to build needs to be obtain from what ever Government agency controls the land. With charnote the controlling agency is not the local Government, but the lands department in BKK. Just because the wifes 2 cousin works in the Amphor office and says everythings OK doesn't mean the Amphor has control of the land. Believe me if the Government or some one with pull wants a building gone, it's gone. I have land thats zoned industrial and had to get 3 different agencys to approve it, guy next door put in a gas station, no permission. Knocked down before he finished. Jim

No cousins, uncles or aunts work in the land office. Bkk does not issue and control build permits for nakhon nowhere...the local offices do.....same as the local land offices handle the sales and transfers and title upgrades of land titles.

We built a house on it, we did not get a build permit. We did go to the office afterwards and were told to take photos and show a plan of the house...we did, we were then issued documents and went to the main district office to be issued the address books...which you cannot get if you are not legal....we are now.

Another block we owned we upgraded land title via the main district office....new title was granted and nothing to do with Bkk.

[Gary A]

Up on a nearby mountain, actually across the road from my favorite watering hole, a piece of land was used and cared for many years by an old Thai man. One day the forestry service came and started building an office there. They told the old man that it was government land and that the government could do anything they wanted with the land. The locals organized demonstrations and caused quite a commotion. Most land up there has been managed for generations in the same manner. The government finally paid him compensation. He got a WHOPPING 10,000 baht.

Another situation in the same area involved a guy who put up a restaurant and started building some small bungalows for nightly rentals. The government didn't force him to tear down any of the four completed bungalows but told him that is he built any more, they would tear them all down. That situation is still up in the air.

I wanted to buy a beautiful piece of land up there and my wife checked it out and told me that the old lady who was selling it had no papers and the land still belonged to the government. That was several years ago and it appears that my wife was right even though the land has been used by the same family for many generations. My wife won't even consider buying any land without a red seal chanote.

[jamescollister]

Here is a web site that give an explaination of the titles, though I think there are still some other variations not mentioned.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/thailand-land-title-deeds.html. Jim

[Gary A]

In the case of a legal land document, a friend of mine bought 82 rai and paid per rai. It was a legal document but NOT a chanote. He found that to sell a portion of the land, it needed to be upgraded to a chanote, be surveyed and boundary markers put in. The results of the survey came up with the property being 56 rai and the portions were each 28 rai. What recourse did he have? NONE. Apparently the original aerial survey was wrong. (?) I think that the Thai he used to buy the property knew the amount of land was misstated and my friend was cheated right from the start. Since the farang cannot own the property anyways, it was up to the Thai nominee to find out why there was such a large discrepancy. His nominee didn't choose to contest it. In order to get the Thai to sign off on the sale my friend had to give him half the land in addition to a rather large cash settlement.

I told my friend that he would be better off not to fight it because the Thai is under no obligation to give him anything.

[samsiam]

Well that is just stooopid isn't it.

Anyone that buys land like that is a gambler and should take the roll of the dice.

There is only 3 land titles anyone should deal with and the lower 2 we have owned with no issue and upgraded 1 to full.

I did however contemplate a toilet paper title property 2 years ago....it was spectacular and the exact property I had been looking for.....prefect....but the price was to high for such a title, if it had been a relative price for such title and associated risk...I may have risked it.

[David006]

Here is a web site that give an explaination of the titles, though I think there are still some other variations not mentioned.

http://www.samuifors...itle-deeds.html. Jim

Read someplace that NSSK can be upgraded to Chanote after ownership of x years ( 10?). Probably cost a bunch of t money to get anybody at land office off their arse. Wife says wait everybody in village says coming soon ( that was two years ago). Just like the paving of that stretch of pot holes at the edge of our farm..village chef said waiting for black top machine..come next week...that was two years ago also...lol

That said MIL got a visit from land office to her nothing land ..found it was actually NSSK and surveyed and upgraded it to Chanote which I assume would impact the value considerably? Even got a new blue Soi sign at the end of the road!

Reason I mention is that it may be worth considering encumbered land and just wait..if you don't die first...lol

[NewlyMintedThai]

In the case of a legal land document, a friend of mine bought 82 rai and paid per rai. It was a legal document but NOT a chanote. He found that to sell a portion of the land, it needed to be upgraded to a chanote, be surveyed and boundary markers put in. The results of the survey came up with the property being 56 rai and the portions were each 28 rai. What recourse did he have? NONE. Apparently the original aerial survey was wrong. (?) I think that the Thai he used to buy the property knew the amount of land was misstated and my friend was cheated right from the start. Since the farang cannot own the property anyways, it was up to the Thai nominee to find out why there was such a large discrepancy. His nominee didn't choose to contest it. In order to get the Thai to sign off on the sale my friend had to give him half the land in addition to a rather large cash settlement.

I told my friend that he would be better off not to fight it because the Thai is under no obligation to give him anything.

Buyer beware.

It was your friend's fault for not exercizing proper due diligence.

When I bought land, I hired a surveyor to confirm the boundaries and dimensions.

[Gary A]

My friend readily admits that he was naive and entirely too trusting. It's a little too late to change anything. Actually he did setup a Thai company to control the property. There again, he didn't realize that it cost money to keep up a company. His financial condition went from bad to worse and he was forced to dissolve the company. And yes, he made mistake after mistake and he admits it.

[NewlyMintedThai]

My friend readily admits that he was naive and entirely too trusting. It's a little too late to change anything. Actually he did setup a Thai company to control the property. There again, he didn't realize that it cost money to keep up a company. His financial condition went from bad to worse and he was forced to dissolve the company. And yes, he made mistake after mistake and he admits it.

Sad story.

[samsiam]

You could always plan to get some land cheap by loaning out funds to poor land owners and then just taking their land when they do not pay you back.

[David48]

<snip> It's present use is irrelevent.

When you 'value' a parcel of land you usually look for the 'highest and best use' and I agree with grimleybob that it's 'It's present use is irrelevant'

Unless it's present use is the highest and best use.

A rice paddy boarding a major road most likely will have a higher and better use then simply growing rice ... assuming that the rice paddy doesn't flood, has title and a zoning approval/potential etc.