The Longest Walk On Rose Petals In Bangkok

[camerata]

A Western woman thrust a brochure into my hand outside Siam Paragon yesterday. It turned out to be advertising a "thudong" walk (on rose petals) by 1500 Dhammakaya monks and novices from their temple in Pathum Thani to Wat Paknam, ending on April 6 with the presentation of a 1-ton gold statue. The walk has been named "The Light of Peace."

Already, a senator is complaining that it may violate monastic ethics and has asked the Office of National Buddhism to rule on whether it disrespects Buddhism. But the ONB says it is proper, "and the promotion of the temple's reputation is considered an added benefit."

[fabianfred]

Not really the spirit of Tudong....to be worshipped and coddled the whole way.

Just an advertising drive, like many of the huge events they promote.... IMHO.

[Brucenkhamen]

Here is a comparison of the Dhammakaya idea of tudong with the Thai Forest Tradition idea of tudong.

[Xangsamhua]

Bizarre! Like so much that Dhammakaya does.

[SantiSuk]

The Buddhist cavalcade caused traffic chaos on Thursday around Ratchaprop and the shopping central area of Bangkok. Not much karma for those going about their daily business!

[ericsamadhi]

Yes, my friends, the business of Buddhism needs advertising events and ways for you to give money. Each person decides whether the business does good things, or is just making money.. I am very impressed by their ability to make money.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[beautifulthailand99]

Marketing gone mad - reminds me of the US evangelical hustlers though it no doubt had a strong impact on those observing it.

[fabianfred]

The Buddha would not have stood for such a display IMHO, Makes a mockery of all the monks who truly do alms-round , quietly and without fuss, every day.

Monks are not meant to be worshiped. Just another rite and ritual to be added to the list of things we must get rid of to reach stream-entry.

It might make some monks think they are above the people....and infate their egos.

[fabianfred]

sorry.... I meant Tudong not alms-round in my above post

[bankei]

The Buddha would turn in his stupa if he knew this was going on. So far removed from the original teachings that is cannot be called Buddhism in my opinion.

[hookedondhamma]

This is thailand, and just as there are many different spins on the thai language, there are many spins on what is considered 'Buddhism' here. The West was never 'all things Buddhist,' and for that many from the 'West' will see these subtelties and other things which seem 'off' from displays such as the 'rose petal' walk. But try explaining it to one who follows the Dhammakaya sect and your words are more than likely to fall on deaf ears, with a bit a greng jai. At the end of the day this is Thailand. Expect the un-expected.

It's just culture-related, and varies from area to area, person to person..

The same as I had a monk telling me I had no knowledge of Buddhism whatsoever, as I hadn't studied the dhamma courses here, as if Buddhism weren't about enlightenment, and instead about ranking up via titles for the 'kwam jalern' of Buddhism. While in Isaan this was the total opposite. But at the end of the day I am in their country, not the other way around.

That was an interesting comment about the Buddha turning in his stupa, by the way.

[Xangsamhua]

But at the end of the day I am in their country, not the other way around.

Hmm... yes, you're in a sovereign nation, so you must respect its laws, acknowledge its cultural expectations, and be courteous, but it's the height of relativism, isn't it, to nod your head in deference to all its cultural products. If you were in Japan during the pre-war years and became aware of the increasing militarism and chauvinism of the Zen schools would you have smiled and just gone along with it? "That's just the way they think and do things in Japan"??

Likewise, there's enough known about Dhammakaya to suggest that, regardless of their cultishness and materialism, they are more "Thai" than Buddhist, or perhaps more "Sino-Thai" than Buddhist, and the "Thainess" that they represent is not always the most admirable expression of the Thai cultural ideal.

Yes, I know there are good and well-educated people who seem to get a lot of benefit from Dhammakaya. An esteemed colleague is one, so it can't be all bad, but I have an in-law (not a very bright one) in Australia who pays regularly into a Dhammakaya account and tries to encourage others, and I know of another person in Melbourne who was a regular contributor to them of substantial sums. This lady fell on hard times and asked Dhammakaya if they could help her, but regardless of how much she'd paid in they weren't going to give any of it back. Now this may be legitimate business practice, and Dhammakaya is a business, but is it Buddhist?

[hookedondhamma]

But at the end of the day I am in their country, not the other way around.

Hmm... yes, you're in a sovereign nation, so you must respect its laws, acknowledge its cultural expectations, and be courteous, but it's the height of relativism, isn't it, to nod your head in deference to all its cultural products. If you were in Japan during the pre-war years and became aware of the increasing militarism and chauvinism of the Zen schools would you have smiled and just gone along with it? "That's just the way they think and do things in Japan"??

Ok ok, I'll give in. Perhaps some enjoy 'nodding their head' - can't say so much for myself, but then again, it depends on the situation and the factors involved. But I invite you, if you haven't, to go live at a temple - any temple of any sect in Thailand and (notice I say Thailand only, as this is the only country I've been living in besides my own), ask politely, out of sheer curiousity, why this practice or ritual is necessary and how it is related to Buddhism in any way. Eventually you may just see sometimes tradition is tradition because ties (not thais) are just too strong.

The deal about Japan, it's probably better for me not to answer as I have no direct experience with that particular country or the era which you describe, or its customs.

I've never had a problem with the Dhammakay sect. But then again if I ever saw a difference (and this was after I'd been in Thailand for a while) between this and that sect, I'd just leave it with the sect in which it originated.

'Cultish' perhaps, from a 'Western point of view'. No so 'Cultish' for those who follow it. If we aren't in it more than likely the stuff we hear will probably be 'he said, she said,' and since when has that been reliable if we aren't the ones experiencing it directly? And as for the 'rose petal' walk, we all have our differences of opinion. But it still went on, and apparently is still living.

Edited July 8, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[Xangsamhua]

Thank you, Phra Hooked.

There has been some discussion on this forum about both the depressing record of the Zen schools in Japan in the pre-war and war years and the strange and colourful history of the Dharmakaya movement in Thailand.

These links may interest you.

http://www.thaivisa....s/page__st__150

http://www.thaivisa....d-non-violence/

http://www.thaivisa....ommodification/

Regards

Xangsamhua

[hookedondhamma]

Thank you, Phra Hooked.

There has been some discussion on this forum about both the depressing record of the Zen schools in Japan in the pre-war and war years and the strange and colourful history of the Dharmakaya movement in Thailand.

These links may interest you.

http://www.thaivisa....s/page__st__150

http://www.thaivisa....d-non-violence/

http://www.thaivisa....ommodification/

Regards

Xangsamhua

Actually, thank you, Xangsamhua - I enjoy learning as much as I can, and though I haven't read the links yet, I am very much looking forward to it. (For now though must get back to monk business ... lol (all the jokes that can be derived from that one))

Edit* Ok, curiousity has arisen. Right now is a no go, but maybe in a few days, especially before the rainy season begins, when there are 2 consecutive days off from studies, I would like to go spend a couple of days there. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.

Edited July 8, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[camerata]

There's a good essay on Dhammakaya called Esoteric Teaching of Wat Phra Dhammakaya. Apparently, their monks are climbing rapidly up the ecclesiastical ladder and they have supporters in the cabinet. Today, Bangkok, tomorrow Thailand (not to mention The World).

[sabaijai]

Indeed, Dhammakaya has strong support among the Thaksin/PT/UDD camps.

There is also their interesting recent proclamation about the whereabouts of the late Steve Jobs's soul.

http://2bangkok.com/...-afterlife.html

there is also a separate thread in this forum on Jobs' Dhammakaya 'canonization'.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/578638-steve-jobs-is-now-a-half-yak-living-in-a-heavenly-palace/#entry5591142