Abhisit In '2-For-1' Offer

[Payboy]

Is Chuan having an incontinence moment?

Probably discomfort knowing his own brother was a wanted fugitive for embezzlement until the statute of limitations expired.

And don't forget his own nickname Chaang Thaa See as a result of his whitewashing role during his tenure as PM.

[Bakseedaa]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

or maybe a medal....! Depending on how you view that terrorist situation.. were these not the same people who were burning Bangkok, and if not, what were they doing there on that glorious day.. I think I remember those terrorists being told to break up their illegal protest and go home.. many times...

[rixalex]

The offer is a political gimmick because Abhisit and Suthep have not been charged for their alleged crimes.Should there be a proper investigation - no sign of this yet - and they are found guilty, that would be a different matter.However since they know the army in Thailand is never held accountable it's an empty gesture.

Abhisit was simply responding in kind to the political gimmick and the empty gesture that was being put to him:

Abhisit was responding to a challenge from Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan that two representatives from each side - Abhisit and Suthep from the Democrat Party, and Jatuporn and Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt leader Natthawut Saikua - should be exempted from any amnesty in the future.

[hellodolly]

"He clearly was trying to emphasise that the government's push for reconciliation was ultimately aimed at whitewashing Thaksin's wrongdoings".

And that is what this 2-for-1 thing is all about. Just another brick for the criminalization wall the Opposition has been trying to build around their political nemesis..............Winning elections is not an amnesty-able matter. But what happened at R'song is very much subject to amnesty discussions. ...Not sure how amenable those directly affected through the loss of loved ones, or those who have been struggling with the effects of injuries since, would feel about those responsible being given a free ride............... Also with respect to Jatuporn and Nathawut, since when is anti-coupism an amnesty-able matter. Mr. Abhisit and Suthep on the other hand, have both political and homicidal liabilities, the latter for which they have a culpability which they are now trying to 'defer and delay"...................... This kind of 2-for-1 gamesmanship is advancement of Opposition agenda's and a 'kick in the head' for those referenced above, who are most directly affected to this day.

Just like you two more funny men.

". Also with respect to Jatuporn and Nathawut, since when is anti-coupism"

Why did they wait until the Dems were in power to bring that up. After all there had been two previous Thaksin controlled governments they could have charged with the same thing.

Both those government were elected by the same method as the Dems. The main difference being Thaksin could not control them directly so he went out and hired a group of red shirt goons to cause so munch trouble the Dems would not be able to operate with the freedom of there predecessors. They were kept busy trying to protect Bangkok from burning down

Are you sure you are a academician. You hint at it on another post. On the other hand that could be your problem with seeing reality in it's entirety.

Edited April 7, 2012 by hellodolly

[bigbamboo]

For me the bigger picture is this. If you let everybody off with an amnesty, the law no longer becomes a deterent, not only for politicians butr for everybody in Thailand. The law will be toothless. Without the fear of the law to govern appropriate behaviour you learn fairly swiftly that if you do wrong, but can garner enough support and kick up a big enough stink, you'll get your way.

Maybe it would just be easier to get rid of all laws instead

Without the law Thailand will have two choices........ military rule or mob rule.

[geriatrickid]

Agreed. Thaksin should be retried and in a court free of the taint of bias. The evidence appears to be compelling. If so, then the court will render an appropriate verdict. Abhisit and other need to be held accountable, although the case against Abhisit is tenuous at best and he knows it. Abhisit will most likely beat the rap, whereas Thaksin might not.

And you think were he to be retried right now, with him effectively running the country, that there is no possibility of any bias in court rulings?

Any retrial is going by some to be considered as tainted, just as you consider his existing one to be so. How many retries do you think we will have to go through before everyone is satisfied? We will be here forever. How about, seeing as the evidence was compelling, Thaksin just accepts it? (actually he should be thanking that "tainted" court that they didn't double his sentence for attempting to bribe it)

You claim to believe in the law, then why so quick to refuse to follow basic principles associated with a fair trial. Look at what you wrote. Your argument is predicated on the belief that a satisfactory verdict can only be obtained if there is an illegal act that allows it. The fact of the matter is that the entire process was tainted because of the military coup. The coup was illegal, and no one can argue that it was not. A legally elected government was replaced by a military junta. The judges in place now are mostly the same judges that were in place at the time of the coup. You are now intimating that the judges would be influenced to render a not guilty verdict. Well golly gee, then by your logic, those judges would have been influenced to render a guilty verdict when the junta was calling the shots.

Edited April 7, 2012 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

For me the bigger picture is this. If you let everybody off with an amnesty, the law no longer becomes a deterent, not only for politicians butr for everybody in Thailand. The law will be toothless. Without the fear of the law to govern appropriate behaviour you learn fairly swiftly that if you do wrong, but can garner enough support and kick up a big enough stink, you'll get your way.

Maybe it would just be easier to get rid of all laws instead

Without the law Thailand will have two choices........ military rule or mob rule.

Ahh so you consider having an elected government mob rule.

okie dokie.

[rixalex]

You claim to believe in the law, then why so quick to refuse to follow basic principles associated with a fair trial. Look at what you wrote. Your argument is predicated on the belief that a satisfactory verdict can only be obtained if there is an illegal act that allows it.

Not at all. My argument is predicated on the belief that a satisfactory verdict can only be obtained in the eyes of many, if the verdict is in line with their own view. In the case of Thaksin's conviction, in spite of the black and white facts and the undisputed evidence presented, because he was found guilty, in the eyes of some, this therefore means the trial was tainted. Would they think that way, had he been found innocent? I somehow doubt it. Thaksin of course himself said before the verdict was given, that he would respect and abide by whatever they decided on. He too immediately switched to the argument you now put forth.

The coup was illegal, and no one can argue that it was not.

So at which point after an illegal coup, are things no longer tainted? If things were still tainted under Samak and Somchai, despite the elections that had taken place, at what point did everything suddenly become legitimate?

You are now intimating that the judges would be influenced to render a not guilty verdict. Well golly gee, then by your logic, those judges would have been influenced to render a guilty verdict when the junta was calling the shots.

I did not intimate that at all. I intimated that court verdicts here can easily be painted as tainted. You paint them as tainted when Thaksin was tried, and i guarantee you, were there a Thaksin retrial now, no matter what the verdict, some would paint that too as tainted.

[phiphidon]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

or maybe a medal....! Depending on how you view that terrorist situation.. were these not the same people who were burning Bangkok, and if not, what were they doing there on that glorious day.. I think I remember those terrorists being told to break up their illegal protest and go home.. many times...

The burning of Bangkok, dramatic as it sounds, wasn't exactly Dresden revisited as someone else on here pointed out. Whatever, the burnings took place at the end of the breakup of the camp at Lumpini.

Most of the casulties had been inflicted by then and they were hardly in the shape to take part in any burnings or anything else, ever.

Just how many times were the protesters told to go home? Were they told they would be shot if they did not comply?

Other than that your post was entirely accurate, to someone like yourself, depending on your view of the demonstration.

[Crushdepth]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

And those who organised and paid for the men in black, whose use of weapons forced the escalation of the conflict, need something worse.

Do not overlook the provocateurs, they are the people who actually wanted the blood and they eventually got it. No prizes for guessing whose interests they represent.

[phiphidon]

Is Chuan having an incontinence moment?

Probably discomfort knowing his own brother was a wanted fugitive for embezzlement until the statute of limitations expired.

And don't forget his own nickname Chaang Thaa See as a result of his whitewashing role during his tenure as PM.

And didn't Suthep pay him back well - if the democrats had lasted a bit longer he might have brought that government down as well if anybody had really dug deep into the palm oil "shortage" situation.

Edited April 7, 2012 by phiphidon

[FarangTalk]

Do not overlook the provocateurs, they are the people who actually wanted the blood and they eventually got it. No prizes for guessing whose interests they represent.

Don't worry, the military and the yellow shirts have not been forgotten.

[bigbamboo]

For me the bigger picture is this. If you let everybody off with an amnesty, the law no longer becomes a deterent, not only for politicians butr for everybody in Thailand. The law will be toothless. Without the fear of the law to govern appropriate behaviour you learn fairly swiftly that if you do wrong, but can garner enough support and kick up a big enough stink, you'll get your way.

Maybe it would just be easier to get rid of all laws instead

Without the law Thailand will have two choices........ military rule or mob rule.

Ahh so you consider having an elected government mob rule.

okie dokie.

No........ I didn't say that at all.

I said without the law we would have mob rule. Fortunately we still have the law under this government just as we did under the previous governments.

Edited April 7, 2012 by bigbamboo

[ianf]

"He clearly was trying to emphasise that the government's push for reconciliation was ultimately aimed at whitewashing Thaksin's wrongdoings".

And that is what this 2-for-1 thing is all about. Just another brick for the criminalization wall the Opposition has been trying to build around their political nemesis..............Winning elections is not an amnesty-able matter. But what happened at R'song is very much subject to amnesty discussions. ...Not sure how amenable those directly affected through the loss of loved ones, or those who have been struggling with the effects of injuries since, would feel about those responsible being given a free ride............... Also with respect to Jatuporn and Nathawut, since when is anti-coupism an amnesty-able matter. Mr. Abhisit and Suthep on the other hand, have both political and homicidal liabilities, the latter for which they have a culpability which they are now trying to 'defer and delay"...................... This kind of 2-for-1 gamesmanship is advancement of Opposition agenda's and a 'kick in the head' for those referenced above, who are most directly affected to this day.

This is based on Calgaryll's false assumption about Abhisit's role in helping to restore calm to Bangkok after the Reds marched on the city with a clear and violent agenda. It is tragic that there are some people who cannot see the truth in these events but I guess that has always happened throughout history.

[rixalex]

The difference between Thaksin and Abisit is,Abisit is under protection from the powers who kicked out and sentenced Thaksin.It is against forum rules and Thai law to name those powers

What has the power to protect you more than anything here, is the size of your wallet, and Thaksin's is easily big enough to protect him from facing justice. Just look at him now. Yes he was convicted, his million baht bribe having failed him, but not to worry, off he goes, globe trotting, staying in five star hotels, fine dining, shopping. Will he ever spend a night in jail? Of course not.

[animatic]

The offer is inherently unfair even at 2-for-1 because only the one needs a whitewash.

The offer is a political gimmick because Abhisit and Suthep have not been charged for their alleged crimes.Should there be a proper investigation - no sign of this yet - and they are found guilty, that would be a different matter.However since they know the army in Thailand is never held accountable it's an empty gesture.

There is much talk and maneuvering to charge them,

so they have reasonable reason to think this will be tried.

So their offer is als reasonable.

[Roadman]

For me the bigger picture is this. If you let everybody off with an amnesty, the law no longer becomes a deterent, not only for politicians butr for everybody in Thailand. The law will be toothless. Without the fear of the law to govern appropriate behaviour you learn fairly swiftly that if you do wrong, but can garner enough support and kick up a big enough stink, you'll get your way.

Maybe it would just be easier to get rid of all laws instead

Agreed. Thaksin should be retried and in a court free of the taint of bias. The evidence appears to be compelling. If so, then the court will render an appropriate verdict. Abhisit and other need to be held accountable, although the case against Abhisit is tenuous at best and he knows it. Abhisit will most likely beat the rap, whereas Thaksin might not.

What a load of bull sh;t. Thaksin was found guilty in a court free of bias. There is no need for any retrial on the guilty verdicts that have the convicted fugiive criminal ear marked for prison time. The only bias that was being applied was in previous court rulings where Thaksin was putting heat on judges to force the bias. Thaksin should be in prison doing time on those guilty rulings, and being dragged back into court for the rest of his rip offs and also being charged for leading a civil war against Thailand.

Abhisit has nothing to beat.

[rixalex]

Thaksin was found guilty in a court free of bias.

With the warped logic involved in all this, it wouldn't surprise me to hear it being argued that the fact that Thaksin's bribe was refused, shows how unfair and how biased against him it all was.

[GentlemanJim]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

or maybe a medal....! Depending on how you view that terrorist situation.. were these not the same people who were burning Bangkok, and if not, what were they doing there on that glorious day.. I think I remember those terrorists being told to break up their illegal protest and go home.. many times...

The burning of Bangkok, dramatic as it sounds, wasn't exactly Dresden revisited as someone else on here pointed out. Whatever, the burnings took place at the end of the breakup of the camp at Lumpini.

Most of the casulties had been inflicted by then and they were hardly in the shape to take part in any burnings or anything else, ever.

Just how many times were the protesters told to go home? Were they told they would be shot if they did not comply?

Other than that your post was entirely accurate, to someone like yourself, depending on your view of the demonstration.

Well that is in the realms of being a first on TV, someone actually condoning an act of terrorism, the burning of Bangkok, and making the crime lighter than it was. Astonishing Phiphidon, a new low in posting!

As for those saying that what Abhisit has said is just political rhetoric and gamesmanship, he was answering a statement from Jatuporn. The whole idea of an amnesty is a political game. Why on earth should there be any form of amnesty? Those that have been charged with crimes should go through the due process and if found guilty then they should pay the price according to law. Remind me again just who is it asking for an amnesty....oh yes all the reds charged with terrorism. As for Jatuporn saying he will rescind his right to amnesty if Abhisit does...that is political rhetoric and absolute BS. That is the same man who told the crowds of reds he would fight with them...he didn't, he would spill his blood with them....he didn't, would take responsibility for their actions...he didn't, he would turn himself in...he didn't...until about the tenth time of declaring so. The guy is an oxygen thief and it is appalling that people on here actually support him.

[Skywalker69]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

Also the one that orderd the "war on drugs" +2500 killed, and the one responsible for the Tak Bai massacre almost 90 people killed.

[GentlemanJim]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

That is easy to find out, it is those that paid for and sent in the mercienary blackshirt militia who were fighting for the red leaders and whatever their agenda was.

[MaiChai]

"He clearly was trying to emphasise that the government's push for reconciliation was ultimately aimed at whitewashing Thaksin's wrongdoings".

And that is what this 2-for-1 thing is all about. Just another brick for the criminalization wall the Opposition has been trying to build around their political nemesis..............Winning elections is not an amnesty-able matter. But what happened at R'song is very much subject to amnesty discussions. ...Not sure how amenable those directly affected through the loss of loved ones, or those who have been struggling with the effects of injuries since, would feel about those responsible being given a free ride............... Also with respect to Jatuporn and Nathawut, since when is anti-coupism an amnesty-able matter. Mr. Abhisit and Suthep on the other hand, have both political and homicidal liabilities, the latter for which they have a culpability which they are now trying to 'defer and delay"...................... This kind of 2-for-1 gamesmanship is advancement of Opposition agenda's and a 'kick in the head' for those referenced above, who are most directly affected to this day.

You wouldn't happen to be Robert Amsterdam?

[takatukaland]

For me the bigger picture is this. If you let everybody off with an amnesty, the law no longer becomes a deterent, not only for politicians butr for everybody in Thailand. The law will be toothless. Without the fear of the law to govern appropriate behaviour you learn fairly swiftly that if you do wrong, but can garner enough support and kick up a big enough stink, you'll get your way.

Maybe it would just be easier to get rid of all laws instead

Agreed. Thaksin should be retried and in a court free of the taint of bias. The evidence appears to be compelling. If so, then the court will render an appropriate verdict. Abhisit and other need to be held accountable, although the case against Abhisit is tenuous at best and he knows it. Abhisit will most likely beat the rap, whereas Thaksin might not.

What a load of bull sh;t. Thaksin was found guilty in a court free of bias. There is no need for any retrial on the guilty verdicts that have the convicted fugiive criminal ear marked for prison time. The only bias that was being applied was in previous court rulings where Thaksin was putting heat on judges to force the bias. Thaksin should be in prison doing time on those guilty rulings, and being dragged back into court for the rest of his rip offs and also being charged for leading a civil war against Thailand.

Abhisit has nothing to beat.

Guess u forget some facts,hmm more than half of the country stands behind Thaksin,his party won all elections since 2001,u sound like u got brainwashed and u r blind for the real facts

[GentlemanJim]

"He clearly was trying to emphasise that the government's push for reconciliation was ultimately aimed at whitewashing Thaksin's wrongdoings".

And that is what this 2-for-1 thing is all about. Just another brick for the criminalization wall the Opposition has been trying to build around their political nemesis..............Winning elections is not an amnesty-able matter. But what happened at R'song is very much subject to amnesty discussions. ...Not sure how amenable those directly affected through the loss of loved ones, or those who have been struggling with the effects of injuries since, would feel about those responsible being given a free ride............... Also with respect to Jatuporn and Nathawut, since when is anti-coupism an amnesty-able matter. Mr. Abhisit and Suthep on the other hand, have both political and homicidal liabilities, the latter for which they have a culpability which they are now trying to 'defer and delay"...................... This kind of 2-for-1 gamesmanship is advancement of Opposition agenda's and a 'kick in the head' for those referenced above, who are most directly affected to this day.

You wouldn't happen to be Robert Amsterdam?

It can't be. he would be charging us all $5000 an hour to read his offensive ramblings...................oh wait a minute, maybe he is charging someone that to write them!

CalgaryII

You said

Also with respect to Jatuporn and Nathawut, since when is anti-coupism an amnesty-able matter

I don't recall there being a coup on when they were calling for the burning of Bangkok and the murdering and killing of Thai Army soldiers! You should take care of the company you keep !

[GentlemanJim]

For me the bigger picture is this. If you let everybody off with an amnesty, the law no longer becomes a deterent, not only for politicians butr for everybody in Thailand. The law will be toothless. Without the fear of the law to govern appropriate behaviour you learn fairly swiftly that if you do wrong, but can garner enough support and kick up a big enough stink, you'll get your way.

Maybe it would just be easier to get rid of all laws instead

Agreed. Thaksin should be retried and in a court free of the taint of bias. The evidence appears to be compelling. If so, then the court will render an appropriate verdict. Abhisit and other need to be held accountable, although the case against Abhisit is tenuous at best and he knows it. Abhisit will most likely beat the rap, whereas Thaksin might not.

What a load of bull sh;t. Thaksin was found guilty in a court free of bias. There is no need for any retrial on the guilty verdicts that have the convicted fugiive criminal ear marked for prison time. The only bias that was being applied was in previous court rulings where Thaksin was putting heat on judges to force the bias. Thaksin should be in prison doing time on those guilty rulings, and being dragged back into court for the rest of his rip offs and also being charged for leading a civil war against Thailand.

Abhisit has nothing to beat.

Guess u forget some facts,hmm more than half of the country stands behind Thaksin,his party won all elections since 2001,u sound like u got brainwashed and u r blind for the real facts

It seems you are very short on facts! I think you will find about 40% of the country stands behind Thaksin, ....while he pays them to. This of course could soon become a little issue for him, as he promised them a year ago that they would all be rich in 6 months!

[maeab]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

Also the one that orderd the "war on drugs" +2500 killed, and the one responsible for the Tak Bai massacre almost 90 people killed.

I think they are the same person.

[GentlemanJim]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

Also the one that orderd the "war on drugs" +2500 killed, and the one responsible for the Tak Bai massacre almost 90 people killed.

u live on the moon or what?Tak Bai is an army thing,nothing to do with Thaksin,the army not listen to anybody,Thaksin told them to leave the south,he wanted to send police to the south.But army refused to leave.They don't want to leave because they make billions with crossboarder trades,they can steal,rape and kill without punishment,nothing to do with any Thai government,about the 2500 deads,well bad,but majority of thais was happy how the drug problem was handled

It is amusing how the reds will say it was nothing to do with Thaksin, the Army just do what they want, yet Abhisit was responsible for the army actions when 92 died! Just who exactly is living on the moon?

[maeab]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

That is easy to find out, it is those that paid for and sent in the mercienary blackshirt militia who were fighting for the red leaders and whatever their agenda was.

Thaksin is the only person responsible for those 92 deathes. Why cant people see that, It seems very clear to any non drunk person with a brain.

[GentlemanJim]

takatukaland

A word of friendly advice...stop posting now before you say anything more that will stop you on TV for good.

[sparebox2]

Those who order the shooting, which lead to 92 death needs to be given life sentence.

That is easy to find out, it is those that paid for and sent in the mercienary blackshirt militia who were fighting for the red leaders and whatever their agenda was.

Thaksin is the only person responsible for those 92 deathes. Why cant people see that, It seems very clear to any non drunk person with a brain.

If I agree with you, it will also imply that Thaksin is the one that order the shooting of the nurse inside the temple. Good god!