Fears Of A Rushed Reconciliation Bill Favouring Thaksin: Thai Charter Debate

[webfact]

CONSTITUTION REVIEW

Charter debate to restart today

The Nation

Fears of a rushed reconciliation bill favouring Thaksin

BANGKOK: -- A joint meeting of the two houses of Parliament is scheduled to begin debate this morning on a second reading of a draft about amending the Constitution.

Meanwhile, chief government whip Udomdej Ratanasatien said yesterday he was ready to propose an extension to the Senate-House debate - until Thursday.

The second reading of the draft on constitutional amendment has been scheduled for 9.30am today and tomorrow, with 172 members of Parliament registered to speak. The Democrats have attacked the government for its moves, saying it is trying to rush the issue.

Pheu Thai Party spokesman Prompong Nopparit said after a party meeting that MPs were asked to speak concisely, especially if they plan to make similar points.

First Deputy Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanij said the Senate would meet this morning before the House-Senate joint session on charter amendment to discuss the Upper House's stance.

Nikom said he personally had no problem with the proposed change to Article 291, but he wanted the Constitution Drafting Assembly to have 200 elected members instead of 99 elected and selected ones. Article 291 is about the charter amendment process.

According to the government's bill, 77 members of the assembly drafting a new charter will come from an election to represent the 77 provinces, while the other 22 would be experts in related fields.

Senator Surachai Liengboonlerschai said the Parliament should extend the discussion time from two days to three because as many as 172 parliamentarians have shown an intention to join the debate.

Surachai said members of the drafting body should come from an election so the government cannot favour its own people. Moreover, qualifications should be specified - such as experts in public laws and experts in political science, etc.

Instead of authorising the House Speaker to decide on a charter draft, Surachai said Parliament should do the job, then send the draft to the Election Commission to conduct a referendum.

If the people disagree with the draft in the referendum, the process should stop, he said.

Surachai said to prevent vote-buying there should be no election campaigning for candidates, who should only be allowed to introduce themselves.

A former charter drafter, Surachai said his group from the 2007 charter drafting process would issue a statement before today's parliamentary debate.

Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Blue Sky Channel yesterday the current session of Parliament should be closed once the third reading of the charter bill is finished on April 27 or 28.

He said if the second reading is finished by Thursday, the third reading could take place on April 27. But if government MPs still want to extend the session, it was possible they plan to rush and push for a reconciliation law within the session to favour former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

The current parliamentary session was supposed to end on April 18 but the Cabinet has resolved to extend it indefinitely.

Democrat MP Thepthai Senapong said yesterday Pheu Thai MPs should not rush the debate. If it is not finished within two days, it should be extended.

However, Pheu Thai MPs looked to want to rush proceedings so the third reading of the charter draft is finished by the end of April, Thepthai said.

The third reading is required to take place at least 15 days after the draft passes its second reading.

Some observers said Pheu Thai MPs might want to finish the debate within two days so they can share Songkran greetings with Thaksin in Laos on Thursday.

-- The Nation 2012-04-10

[jonclark]

Calgaryll - Just don't bother!!!

[CalgaryII]

"He (Abhisit) said if the second reading is finished by Thursday, the third reading could take place on April 27. But if government MPs still want to extend the session, it was possible they plan to rush and push for a reconciliation law within the session to favour former premier Thaksin Shinawatra."

Given his own felonious culpabilities, Thaksin is the least of his problems. To him, any progress is "rushing it". And who can blame him. In his shoes, I would be similarly concerned. The current Coup constitution was designed to protect coupist perp, and those who enforced it at the cost of 90+ lives. Take away that protection, and who knows where it will go. I know where the electoral majority want it to go, and so does he.

Edited April 10, 2012 by CalgaryII

[FOODLOVER]

Thaksin caused the loss of lives, haven't figured that out yet?

[jonclark]

"He (Abhisit) said if the second reading is finished by Thursday, the third reading could take place on April 27. But if government MPs still want to extend the session, it was possible they plan to rush and push for a reconciliation law within the session to favour former premier Thaksin Shinawatra."

Given his own felonious culpabilities, Thaksin is the least of his problems. To him, any progress is "rushing it". And who can blame him. In his shoes, I would be similarly concerned. The current Coup constitution was designed to protect coupist perp, and those who enforced it at the cost of 90+ lives. Take away that protection, and who knows where it will go. I know where the electoral majority want it to go, and so does he.

I think you'll find Abhisit and Suthep proposed to the government that they and Taksin should be omitted from any amnesty bill. The response from the government was deafening in its silence.

Anyway enjoy your trip to Cambodia but make sure you have a Thai - Cambodian dictionary as most of the crowd watching Taksin will no doubt be Cambodian - after all can anyone tell the difference between a Cambodian in a red shirt or a Thai in a red shirt, especially from news footage??

[sparebox2]

PAD already threaten civil war, if Thaksin is allowed to walk free.

[CalgaryII]

I notice a couple points have been raised repeatedly the last several days, including in the above Post. One being the linking of Mr. Abhisit, Suthep and Thaksin in the same Amnesty discussions. This is ilogical when considering the meaning of 'amnesty'. In current discussions, 'amnesty' is associated with the political sphere. As much as some try to introduce the 'red herring' of the drug war, that was a law enforcement circumstance and not political. Hence it does not apply. In that light, there is clear separation between Abhisit/Suthep and Thaksin. Thaksin's political thing was building a majority electoral base and winning elections, for which he was 'coup'ed' out of existence, as much as the coupists try to self-servingly suggest other reasons. Winning elections is clearly not an 'amnesty-able' offense. Abhisit/Suthep on the other hand, are associated with defending a coup, resulting in deaths of those opposed. An act which was repudiated in the subsequent election, which validated those who were opposed. Such deaths and violence are very much a matter for amnesty discussions.

Another point made frequently in anticipation of the Red Shirt/Cambodia thing, is the notion of 'visiting the sins of one on the other', as in the case of Thaksin and Cambodia's Hun Sen, in spite of Thaksin's electoral bona fides. But that discussion is off topic here, and will be pursued elsewhere.

Edited April 10, 2012 by CalgaryII

[waza]

Those convicted of criminal issues shouldnt be included in the reconsilliation deal, just those guilty of political malfeasance

[h90]

"He (Abhisit) said if the second reading is finished by Thursday, the third reading could take place on April 27. But if government MPs still want to extend the session, it was possible they plan to rush and push for a reconciliation law within the session to favour former premier Thaksin Shinawatra."

Given his own felonious culpabilities, Thaksin is the least of his problems. To him, any progress is "rushing it". And who can blame him. In his shoes, I would be similarly concerned. The current Coup constitution was designed to protect coupist perp, and those who enforced it at the cost of 90+ lives. Take away that protection, and who knows where it will go. I know where the electoral majority want it to go, and so does he.

But you know the meaning of the word "reconciliation"? It has nothing to do with pushing your plan and interests against the will of the others you want to reconciliate with.

Call it charter change for to empower our leader, but don't call it reconciliation.

90+ deads: These black shirts with the AKA-47 have nothing to do with that, or?

[Jimmu]

CalgaryII

"Thaksin's political thing was building a majority electoral base and winning elections..."

Just how did he do that! That is the question.

If you truly believe that he achieved that without using nefarious means, then you are extremely naive and/or deluded!

[WhizBang]

CalgaryII

"Thaksin's political thing was building a majority electoral base and winning elections..."

Just how did he do that! That is the question.

If you truly believe that he achieved that without using nefarious means, then you are extremely naive and/or deluded!

He's deluded. It's those red sunglasses he wears all the time. I think they must have turned his brain to mush.

[dorayme]

Have people forgotten the Democratic government didn't break. The law the red shirts did. The Democratic government was responsible for enforcing the law. The read ones responsible for the deaths were the red shirts. Anyone who thinks differently probably was not in Thailand at the time and was watching Fox news. The protests were anything but peaceful except for the poor deluded farm people who were used. Peaceful protesters don't close down major intersections, break windows and set buildings on fire or go charging into hospitals. Lets put the blame where it belongs. I still wonder who was financing the operation.

[Woodcaulk]

I still wonder who was financing the operation.

Really?....Well we know Calgaryll was the bag-man...LOL

[animatic]

Thaksin caused the loss of lives, haven't figured that out yet?

No doubt, but publicly can't say so.

For obvious reasons it isn't in his best interests to acknowledge the truth..

[tlansford]

Calgaryll - Just don't bother!!!

sniff, sniff,

Smells like censorship ... maybe...

Any way, that is how I interpret your preemptive post. If that was not the case, then I'll gladly apologize.

[backtonormal]

PAD already threaten civil war, if Thaksin is allowed to walk free.

The right wing extremists have no backers no more. just look at that shopping channel ASTV

Edited April 10, 2012 by backtonormal

[backtonormal]

Have people forgotten the Democratic government didn't break. The law the red shirts did. The Democratic government was responsible for enforcing the law. The read ones responsible for the deaths were the red shirts. Anyone who thinks differently probably was not in Thailand at the time and was watching Fox news. The protests were anything but peaceful except for the poor deluded farm people who were used. Peaceful protesters don't close down major intersections, break windows and set buildings on fire or go charging into hospitals. Lets put the blame where it belongs. I still wonder who was financing the operation.

Who financed the right wing extremist sit in for 6 months at Government House, why did the army move in against the reds and did not support the TRT when the bigots took over the airport. I personally know a chinese business man who was 'made an offer he could not refuse' (heard a chart Pattana man say the same thing) and coughed up 40,000 baht per month. Failure to do so would result in loss of business. And Thaksins an 4rsehole...get a life

Edited April 10, 2012 by backtonormal

[tlansford]

The process should take as much time as necessary. But foot-dragging is an obvious tactic for non-action.

It would be nice if The Nation would chill on their fear-mongering, eg : "Fears of a rushed reconciliation bill favouring Thaksin", but since fear-mongering appears to be their function these days, there is little hope of that.

Then there are the little gems like this parting shot

"Some observers said Pheu Thai MPs might want to finish the debate within two days so they can share Songkran greetings with Thaksin in Laos on Thursday."

As if politicians other than the PTP might not want to get on with the holidays, too?

And really, who are these "some observers"? And do they really have any more ability to speculate on the intentions of the politicians than you or I do? Most likely, "some observers" is just the author of this piece.

This is one of the more obvious tactics to smear those you do not agree with inside an article masquerading as "news".

Happy New Year

[WackySomchai]

"Fears of a rushed reconciliation bill favouring Thaksin" ?

It is more than fears, white washing of the fugitive in Dubai has been the only objective of his puppet government. But he better stop texting his parrott when she is busy attending major events ...

[rubl]

Some observers said Pheu Thai MPs might want to finish the debate within two days so they can share Songkran greetings with Thaksin in Laos on Thursday.

So next week let's tally how many Pheu Thai "it's not about Thaksin" MP's really went to greet k. Thaksin. I would almost say in this case I'm willing to believe our dear member Cargaryll if he says 'hundreds'

Edited April 10, 2012 by rubl

[FOODLOVER]

Have people forgotten the Democratic government didn't break. The law the red shirts did. The Democratic government was responsible for enforcing the law. The read ones responsible for the deaths were the red shirts. Anyone who thinks differently probably was not in Thailand at the time and was watching Fox news. The protests were anything but peaceful except for the poor deluded farm people who were used. Peaceful protesters don't close down major intersections, break windows and set buildings on fire or go charging into hospitals. Lets put the blame where it belongs. I still wonder who was financing the operation.

Who financed the right wing extremist sit in for 6 months at Government House, why did the army move in against the reds and did not support the TRT when the bigots took over the airport. I personally know a chinese business man who was 'made an offer he could not refuse' (heard a chart Pattana man say the same thing) and coughed up 40,000 baht per month. Failure to do so would result in loss of business. And Thaksins an 4rsehole...get a life

Can you substantiate your claims with proof? Edited April 10, 2012 by FOODLOVER

[smedly]

Thaksin is taking this country to oblivion just to get his face back and power back, election promises that will take this country down, why couldn't he just realise that he was a nasty piece of work and stay away, he is going to destroy this country, would he be able to do what he is doing without all the corrupted billions he stole from the Thai people.......no

[sparebox2]

Have people forgotten the Democratic government didn't break. The law the red shirts did. The Democratic government was responsible for enforcing the law. The read ones responsible for the deaths were the red shirts. Anyone who thinks differently probably was not in Thailand at the time and was watching Fox news. The protests were anything but peaceful except for the poor deluded farm people who were used. Peaceful protesters don't close down major intersections, break windows and set buildings on fire or go charging into hospitals. Lets put the blame where it belongs. I still wonder who was financing the operation.

Who financed the right wing extremist sit in for 6 months at Government House, why did the army move in against the reds and did not support the TRT when the bigots took over the airport. I personally know a chinese business man who was 'made an offer he could not refuse' (heard a chart Pattana man say the same thing) and coughed up 40,000 baht per month. Failure to do so would result in loss of business. And Thaksins an 4rsehole...get a life

Can you substantiate your claims with proof?

Chamlong/Sondhi did not seize the airports. AOT themselves made a silly decision to shut it down.

Edited April 11, 2012 by sparebox2

[waza]

Have people forgotten the Democratic government didn't break. The law the red shirts did. The Democratic government was responsible for enforcing the law. The read ones responsible for the deaths were the red shirts. Anyone who thinks differently probably was not in Thailand at the time and was watching Fox news. The protests were anything but peaceful except for the poor deluded farm people who were used. Peaceful protesters don't close down major intersections, break windows and set buildings on fire or go charging into hospitals. Lets put the blame where it belongs. I still wonder who was financing the operation.

Who financed the right wing extremist sit in for 6 months at Government House, why did the army move in against the reds and did not support the TRT when the bigots took over the airport. I personally know a chinese business man who was 'made an offer he could not refuse' (heard a chart Pattana man say the same thing) and coughed up 40,000 baht per month. Failure to do so would result in loss of business. And Thaksins an 4rsehole...get a life

I guess because the yellows werent burning buses and buildings, attacking BTS stations and counter protestors with granades calling for the assination of the countries leaders, attacking the army with weapons of war and werent funded by a convicted criminal and fugitive from justice. Have some perspective.

[phiphidon]

I guess because the yellows werent burning buses and buildings, attacking BTS stations and counter protestors with granades calling for the assination of the countries leaders, attacking the army with weapons of war and werent funded by a convicted criminal and fugitive from justice. Have some perspective.

Each time a new "atrocity" is sneaked in. What is this "calling for assassination of the countries leaders" of which you speak?

Tell me you are not talking about the "Chiang Mai 11"

MCOT reported that Payao said the alleged assassination targets included Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva; recently resigned Deputy Prime Minster Suthep Thaugsuban; Newin Chidchob, and influential politician who supports Abhisit government; and a senior police officer.

Payao displayed what he said was evidence of the assassination plot, including maps and photos. However, none of the 11 men arrested in Chiang Mai — said by Payao to be the source of information on the plot — have been produced for the press to give their side of the story.

http://www.philstar....bCategoryId=200

More here

BP: Serious stuff. While The Nation ran this as a breaking news story on October 11(as per story above) just after the press conference, they didn’t run a single story on October 12 (referring to print edition). Zilch, nothing, nada. For the Bangkok Post, there was a story on page three only. This comes after the accusation that the Cambodian army in a Cambodian army base brainwashed the red shirts in hating the monarchy, providing them with weapons training and that there would be a report prepared for the Foreign Ministry to protect against this. Surely this should have been a big story……..

The Cambodian response as per the Phnom Penh Post

Cambodian Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Koy Kuong called the accusations “completely untrue”. “Cambodia totally rejects these allegations,” he said, and added that the Kingdom was in no position to provide material or financial support to the Red Shirt movement......................

On one hand, the authorities claim they were rehearsing an assassination attempt on Suthep’s motorcade, but on the other, the authorities say no weapons were found and they were at a resort. Hardly the ideal place for rehearsing an attempt at a likely attempt on a motorcade which would be in an urban area.

Will this story be buried now? It is hard to see how the Thai authorities can maintain their line that the reds were trained in Cambodian army camps by Cambodian army soldiers without the knowledge of the Cambodian government.

http://asiancorrespo...hai-government/

Or maybe it was this one

In related news, Suthep told the press yesterday that Bangkok police was ready for the redshirt rally from Friday to Sunday, adding protesters were not allowed to block roads or use amplifiers..............

..............He added that following claims of there being plots to assassinate the PM, he had told security officials to check the neighbourhood for spots where the attacks might be launched. However, he said the officials must have moved so loudly that the suspects have already fled.

Meanwhile, former deputy permanent secretary for Defence, Admiral Bannawit Kengrien said he too had heard about the socalled assassination plot and that a large number of Cambodian warriors of Vietnamese descent, who had undergone military training and were great snipers, had been brought in to do the job.

http://www.nationmul...p-30138132.html

Mmm, that sounds feasible..................

[waza]

No phiphidon I was actually thinking of the ASEAN summit in Pattaya when the redshirts over ran the security to enter the venue and their leader cried "do what you want with Abhisit".

Or...............

Thai PM's car attacked as tension grows

The window of a car carrying the Thai prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was smashed by protesters as tensions built ahead of an opposition rally.

http://www.telegraph...sion-grows.html

But you make some good points

But back on topic.............

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has offered to disqualify himself and his former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban from any future amnesty if the same measure applies to ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, while other people involved in the political conflict are set free.

He clearly was trying to emphasise that the government's push for reconciliation was ultimately aimed at whitewashing Thaksin's wrongdoings.

http://www.asiaone.c...407-338151.html

Edited April 11, 2012 by waza

[tlansford]

No phiphidon I was actually thinking of the ASEAN summit in Pattaya when the redshirts over ran the security to enter the venue and their leader cried "do what you want with Abhisit".

Or...............

Thai PM's car attacked as tension grows

The window of a car carrying the Thai prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was smashed by protesters as tensions built ahead of an opposition rally.

http://www.telegraph...sion-grows.html

But you make some good points

But back on topic.............

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has offered to disqualify himself and his former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban from any future amnesty if the same measure applies to ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, while other people involved in the political conflict are set free.

He clearly was trying to emphasise that the government's push for reconciliation was ultimately aimed at whitewashing Thaksin's wrongdoings.

http://www.asiaone.c...407-338151.html

The amnesty trade is a good strawman :

Currently Thaksin is wanted for a corruption conviction, right? It is already on the books, right?

Abhisit / Suthep have yet to be investigated, but that would be for what exactly? What would he be exempt from? There are no charges as of today. Will there even be charges in the future?

Amnesty trade is just playing politics. There is no reason to link the crimes of Abhisit/Suthep with those of Thaksin.

[Buchholz]

No phiphidon I was actually thinking of the ASEAN summit in Pattaya when the redshirts over ran the security to enter the venue and their leader cried "do what you want with Abhisit".

Or...............

Thai PM's car attacked as tension grows

The window of a car carrying the Thai prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was smashed by protesters as tensions built ahead of an opposition rally.

http://www.telegraph...sion-grows.html

But you make some good points

But back on topic.............

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has offered to disqualify himself and his former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban from any future amnesty if the same measure applies to ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, while other people involved in the political conflict are set free.

He clearly was trying to emphasise that the government's push for reconciliation was ultimately aimed at whitewashing Thaksin's wrongdoings.

http://www.asiaone.c...407-338151.html

The amnesty trade is a good strawman :

Currently Thaksin is wanted for a corruption conviction, right? It is already on the books, right?

Abhisit / Suthep have yet to be investigated, but that would be for what exactly? What would he be exempt from? There are no charges as of today. Will there even be charges in the future?

Amnesty trade is just playing politics. There is no reason to link the crimes of Abhisit/Suthep with those of Thaksin.

Thaksin's 2 year corruption sentence pales in comparison to what he is really "wanted for."

His arrest warrant for terrorism. With a possible death sentence.

If Thaksin's Amsterdam is to believed, Abhisit/Suthep are a step away from being charged with premeditated murder, crimes against humanity, etc. Also with potential death sentences.

The 2 for 1 offer is a straight offer without any strawman involved and reflects the Thaksin-centric whitewashing amnesty that the man's political party is striving so much for.

.

.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Buchholz